The goofy, run-oriented offensive system

[azcolt]

While Arians may have gotten Luck killed with his Mad Bomber offense relying on so many deep throws, at least that offense utilized the abilities of the next great NFL QB. Now Luck is stuck in an offense that would make sense for the Vikings or the Jags or any franchise that has some running back talent and an average to poor QB. I realize the won-loss record this year is about the same as last -- with a tougher schedule -- but the talent should be much better given all of the free agents added, especially the defense and O-line (although the O-line is still getting manhandled)..

 

Trent Richardson may turn out to be a good running back eventually but he has no chance of being the next AP while Luck has a chance to be a Hall of Fame QB, in spite of this goofy offensive scheme that only fully utilizes his talent when the team is in desperation mode. Tell me why I am wrong.

[SteelDragon]

I whole-heartedly agree!  I wonder if the Colts staff are actually smart enough to utilize Luck in the most effective way.  This offense needs some imagination, and I'm not sure Pep is the right guy.  The possibilities for play-calling should be endless, yet the Colts brain trust keeps insisting on an offense based on a power run game, even though, apparently, we really don't have the horses for it yet.   Talk about trying to fit a square peg into a round hole....

[Balzer40]

I don't know why it is so hard for some to understand what the team is trying to do. They want to be a team that punches another team in the mouth on offense and defense. I love that they are trying to become that instead of the wussball we played for yrs. here and it always bit us in the backside come playoff time. 

 

The problem is we still don't have all the personnel to do it on a consistent basis. One thing that would help, is to put McGlynn back at center and put Satele on the waiver wire. We need more consistent play from our defense. I don't know why so many Colts fans are obsessed with Luck throwing the ball 50 times a game. It might work against some weaker teams, but come playoff time, it's a recipe for failure.

[JoKeR]

How has Ponder worked out in that system? Any offensive system could use a great QB. This is the system Luck excelled at in Stanford except the Colt version probably passes more.

[Smonroe]

I don't know why it is so hard for some to understand what the team is trying to do. They want to be a team that punches another team in the mouth on offense and defense. I love that they are trying to become that instead of the wussball we played for yrs. here and it always bit us in the backside come playoff time. 

 

The problem is we still don't have all the personnel to do it on a consistent basis. One thing that would help, is to put McGlynn back at center and put Satele on the waiver wire. We need more consistent play from our defense. I don't know why so many Colts fans are obsessed with Luck throwing the ball 50 times a game. It might work against some weaker teams, but come playoff time, it's a recipe for failure.

The only thing I disagree with is who should go on the waiver wire. There's room for both of them. Unfortunately, there's not much out there that's an improvement, is there?

[JoKeR]

You know what I hate? Flat Pepsi. You could put more ice in it or even alcohol, but at the end of the day it's flat Pepsi.

Last nights performance was like a flat Pepsi, changes to the gameplan wouldn't have changed the outcome because our players were flat.

[Balzer40]

The only thing I disagree with is who should go on the waiver wire. There's room for both of them. Unfortunately, there's not much out there that's an improvement, is there?

 

 

 

I agree that I can't stand McGlynn either, but he played much better at center and our line seemed to be much more in sync when Satele was injured. Apparently Holmes isn't ready yet, but I would almost rather take my chances with him than Satele, he has proven himself to be nothing but a liability.

[Superman]

You know what I hate? Flat Pepsi. You could put more ice in it or even alcohol, but at the end of the day it's flat Pepsi.

Last nights performance was like a flat Pepsi, changes to the gameplan wouldn't have changed the outcome because our players were flat.

 

Great analogy. I also hate flat Pepsi.

 

However, I don't think the team was so flat that they couldn't have been sparked by a big play somehow. I hesitate to suggest this, but an onside kick to start the second half might have been a good idea (yeah, I know, but still). There was a 4th down in the second half I thought we should have gone for. The coaches could have done a couple things differently, but the team really didn't play as well as they needed to.

[azcolt]

You know what I hate? Flat Pepsi. You could put more ice in it or even alcohol, but at the end of the day it's flat Pepsi.

Last nights performance was like a flat Pepsi, changes to the gameplan wouldn't have changed the outcome because our players were flat.

I agree that scheme doesn't win or lose that game. We got manhandled. No wonder half our players limped off at various times. But I don't understand trying to make talent fit a scheme rather than the other way around. We have a future Hall of Fame QB and a future Hall of Fame wide receiver. The scheme should feature them.

[jshipp23]

While Arians may have gotten Luck killed with his Mad Bomber offense relying on so many deep throws, at least that offense utilized the abilities of the next great NFL QB. Now Luck is stuck in an offense that would make sense for the Vikings or the Jags or any franchise that has some running back talent and an average to poor QB. I realize the won-loss record this year is about the same as last -- with a tougher schedule -- but the talent should be much better given all of the free agents added, especially the defense and O-line (although the O-line is still getting manhandled)..

 

Trent Richardson may turn out to be a good running back eventually but he has no chance of being the next AP while Luck has a chance to be a Hall of Fame QB, in spite of this goofy offensive scheme that only fully utilizes his talent when the team is in desperation mode. Tell me why I am wrong.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

[JoKeR]

I agree that scheme doesn't win or lose that game. We got manhandled. No wonder half our players limped off at various times. But I don't understand trying to make talent fit a scheme rather than the other way around. We have a future Hall of Fame QB and a future Hall of Fame wide receiver. The scheme should feature them.

Any kind of scheme could use great WRs and QB. I don't think our Colts are using power formations as much as it may seem though. I think they are more balanced than anything. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more 3 wide sets either though.

[jshipp23]

I whole-heartedly agree!  I wonder if the Colts staff are actually smart enough to utilize Luck in the most effective way.  This offense needs some imagination, and I'm not sure Pep is the right guy.  The possibilities for play-calling should be endless, yet the Colts brain trust keeps insisting on an offense based on a power run game, even though, apparently, we really don't have the horses for it yet.   Talk about trying to fit a square peg into a round hole....

Best thing that can happen is USC offering Pep the HC job and I think he will do well there considering he can recruit the best o-linemen and rb's in the country..This will NEVER work in the NFL with regularity and only diminishes Luck's ability...I could understand if Blaine Gabbert was the QB, but we are stuck with it at this point and the fact they refuse to make changes when it's obviously hurting us makes me even angrier...How can Luck or Wayne or Irsay not tell Pep to change is confusing as well, maybe they r and he just refuses to listen...

[JoKeR]

Great analogy. I also hate flat Pepsi.

 

However, I don't think the team was so flat that they couldn't have been sparked by a big play somehow. I hesitate to suggest this, but an onside kick to start the second half might have been a good idea (yeah, I know, but still). There was a 4th down in the second half I thought we should have gone for. The coaches could have done a couple things differently, but the team really didn't play as well as they needed to.

Colts had all reasons to go for it, maybe it could've made up for all the lack luster plays if it worked. I have feeling it wouldn't have but that was the perfect situation to risk it.

[hawkeyes]

We got away from the run last night - if we could have established the run the pass would have followed - we were one dimensional and that dimension was full of drops!

[Superman]

Colts had all reasons to go for it, maybe it could've made up for all the lack luster plays if it worked. I have feeling it wouldn't have but that was the perfect situation to risk it.

 

Our defense was really good in the red zone last night. Worst case scenario is you give up a touchdown, but you probably don't give up another 10+ play drive, which is what was really hurting our team. 

[jshipp23]

I whole-heartedly agree!  I wonder if the Colts staff are actually smart enough to utilize Luck in the most effective way.  This offense needs some imagination, and I'm not sure Pep is the right guy.  The possibilities for play-calling should be endless, yet the Colts brain trust keeps insisting on an offense based on a power run game, even though, apparently, we really don't have the horses for it yet.   Talk about trying to fit a square peg into a round hole....

I think Donald Brown would be great in the slot too...Wayne, Hilton, brown in the slot and DHB as the 4th receiver would make us the most effective and dangerous in my opinion, but they wanna just have 1 or 2 receivers keep hilton off the field and bring in a 6th linemen and fb....Gee that is groundbreaking innovation there, they did this in the 50's and 60's and it stopped working as the league evolved..There is a reason no one else is doing this!

[CanuckColt]

Yeah, Pep's system is perplexing at best and incompetent at worst.

All he needs to do is scrap the 'system' and run the plays that put his personnel in the best positions to succeed.

Pep is an amateur learning on the job.

[coltsforlife123]

I'll tell you one thing I really believe for next sunday and that is that we are going to have to rely on lucks deep passes because I don't think we have the defense to stop the broncos. I belive they are gonna put up a lot of points fast and if we come out with a slow start or just constantly sticking with a run game that isn't working then we could find ourselves in a hole very early.

[jshipp23]

I'll tell you one thing I really believe for next sunday and that is that we are going to have to rely on lucks deep passes because I don't think we have the defense to stop the broncos. I belive they are gonna put up a lot of points fast and if we come out with a slow start or just constantly sticking with a run game that isn't working then we could find ourselves in a hole very early.

Same fear here...We cannot afford to get in a hole against this team like we have against everyone else..We have to start fast and put pressure on Manning early...

[coltsforlife123]

Same fear here...We cannot afford to get in a hole against this team like we have against everyone else..We have to start fast and put pressure on Manning early...

 

Same fear here...We cannot afford to get in a hole against this team like we have against everyone else..We have to start fast and put pressure on Manning early...

I see it having to go like the cowboys vs broncos game for us to have a chance. We need to force manning into some turnovers and let Luck do his thing because the running game wont matter if we get behind. I Think it has to be a shootout.

[jshipp23]

I see it having to go like the cowboys vs broncos game for us to have a chance. We need to force manning into some turnovers and let Luck do his thing because the running game wont matter if we get behind. I Think it has to be a shootout.

It may actually be just what the Dr. ordered for Pep to see the light, if we are forced to play spread uptempo and we have a lot of success he will have pressure to keep doing it in the future and scrap this dream of power run formations....It also wouldn't surprise me if we go do the exact same thing again and fall behind 28-7 and it's curtains...

[coltsforlife123]

It may actually be just what the Dr. ordered for Pep to see the light, if we are forced to play spread uptempo and we have a lot of success he will have pressure to keep doing it in the future and scrap this dream of power run formations....It also wouldn't surprise me if we go do the exact same thing again and fall behind 28-7 and it's curtains...

 

It may actually be just what the Dr. ordered for Pep to see the light, if we are forced to play spread uptempo and we have a lot of success he will have pressure to keep doing it in the future and scrap this dream of power run formations....It also wouldn't surprise me if we go do the exact same thing again and fall behind 28-7 and it's curtains...

Im sure we will keep trying the same stuff over and over again like always.. Even though I was a fan of the flea flicker last night. D o you remember the play where addai threw the td pass to wayne a few years back? I think it would be cool to see a Trick play with Richardson to Hilton someday lol.

[Jason_]

I really don't understand what's so hard to grasp about this....Pep is building the type of offense that Irsay wants.  Irsay, the guy that owns the team.  The guy that calls the shots.  He's the guy that hired Grigson to bring in players that are best suited for this type of offense.  Irsay and Grigson brought in Pagano, who wanted to build the type of team that Irsay and Grigson also want.  After Arians' left, they went out and brought in Pep to run the type of offense that they all want, which is the type of offense that Pep is running.  If you don't like this type of offense then you're not going to like the Colts until Irsay retires.  Deal with it! ;)

[CanuckColt]

It may actually be just what the Dr. ordered for Pep to see the light, if we are forced to play spread uptempo and we have a lot of success he will have pressure to keep doing it in the future and scrap this dream of power run formations....It also wouldn't surprise me if we go do the exact same thing again and fall behind 28-7 and it's curtains...

Pep is not going to see any 'light'...and he doesn't want to.

He is just going to doggedly push his system on the players whether they fit the system or not.

[Jason_]

Pep is not going to see any 'light'...and he doesn't want to.

He is just going to doggedly push his system on the players whether they fit the system or not.

 

You mean the type of system that every other member of the coaching staff, front office and ownership wants?  The kind of system Pep was brought in to run?  Yeah he probably will continue trying to improve it.

[CanuckColt]

You mean the type of system that every other member of the coaching staff, front office and ownership wants?  The kind of system Pep was brought in to run?  Yeah he probably will continue trying to improve it.

So why all the support for mediocrity and underutilizing the talent of the players?

Are you related to the little man or something?

[oldunclemark]

I don't know why it is so hard for some to understand what the team is trying to do. They want to be a team that punches another team in the mouth on offense and defense. I love that they are trying to become that instead of the wussball we played for yrs. here and it always bit us in the backside come playoff time. 

 

The problem is we still don't have all the personnel to do it on a consistent basis. One thing that would help, is to put McGlynn back at center and put Satele on the waiver wire. We need more consistent play from our defense. I don't know why so many Colts fans are obsessed with Luck throwing the ball 50 times a game. It might work against some weaker teams, but come playoff time, it's a recipe for failure.

I understand what Chuck and Pep want to do, 'B'....I just dont think it works

Lets look at it: Luck is getting hit just as much as he was last year and our offense just isn't consistent.

We've lost to 2 inferior teams

I worry they're trying to make Luck a Joe Flacco-type guy (Chuck is a Balimote guy) as opposed to a Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, aaron Rodgers type...(which he is)

The bigger point is that Chuck and Pep and Mr. Irsay suggest (without saying it) that we were losers for 12 years under Peyton despite all the division titles and Super Bowl berths ...and that now we will be winners playing football the 'right' way.

It gets back to the old macho mindset that running the ball is tough and passing 60% of the time is, as you say, 'wuss ball'

I think we're making a strategic mistake

[luckyblue]

I think Pep Hamilton's offensive scheme is way too predictable and not really well suited for the NFL, I think he needs to go back to coaching in college. I also think his scheme is limiting the offensive production of the whole offense especially Andrew. You go from one extreme in Arians to the opposite extreme in Hamilton, I think you need someone with an offensive philosophy that falls somewhere between the two of them to maximize Andrew's full potential thus leading to an efficient but productive way to put more points on the board.

[Jason_]

So why all the support for mediocrity and underutilizing the talent of the players?

Are you related to the little man or something?

 

I'm not concerned about Luck's stats.  I'm concerned about the Colts winning games.  

[jshipp23]

I'm not concerned about Luck's stats.  I'm concerned about the Colts winning games.  

And we have lost to 2 inferior teams to this point based on the *ic offensive system we don't have the personnel to run and probably never will unless we find the next Larry Allen, Bruce Mattews, and Steve Wisniewski in the draft somehow...This offense cannot work consistently in the NFL period we are wasting our QB ....

[Jason_]

And we have lost to 2 inferior teams to this point based on the *ic offensive system we don't have the personnel to run and probably never will unless we find the next Larry Allen, Bruce Mattews, and Steve Wisniewski in the draft somehow...This offense cannot work consistently in the NFL period we are wasting our QB ....

 

Another one of your "facts"?

[Malakai432]

Phew, guys it really sucks to be 4-2 and leading the AFC South. Definitely need to change some stuff around again or else this team is going to be worse than it already is.

[Dark_Indy]

Why is there such a focus on the power-run game?

 

Because the Colts are currently making a playoff push, and the only way to get through the playoffs is to be healthy. Trent Richardson needs to improve his game, and the only way for him to improve is to be on the field running the ball.

 

I for one am impressed with Richardson's performance on Monday night, minus the missed screen. His effort was top notch and the 40 yards he got probably felt like a mile to him. 

 

Will Trent Richardson improve? Undoubtedly yes. He draws huge similarities to Marshawn Lynch, and Marshawn's stats exploded once he had been in Seattle for a year. Bradshaw and Brown both have better vision than Richardson, and that is one of the reasons that the Colts had one of the best running games before Bradshaw went down. Although to be fair, Bradshaw has 7 years of experience and Donald Brown has 5, of which 3 were under Peyton Manning, and if a meager 1% of the experience that Brown acquired working with Joseph Addai and Peyton Manning remained, that would still weigh heavier than the experience Trent Richardson has acquired in 22 games.

 

Losing Donald Thomas also hurt the offensive line, and those five guys in the trenches have been making me flinch for 2 years now.

 

In the end, the Colts didn't lose the game because of the playcalling. They lost the game because A) No receiver could hold on to the ball, and B) Young players were making stupid mistakes and costing yardage. If I were to place the blame on one player for the loss, it would be on Hugh Thornton for the unnecessary roughness penalty five seconds after the whistle blew.

[YOUR GM]

We just need to get away from stubborn coordinators. I hate when coordinators try to force a system on the players rather than build a system around the players strengths. Pep is the exact opposite of Arians in terms of scheme, but they share the same flaw. I'm not impressed so far

[YOUR GM]

We just need to get away from stubborn coordinators. I hate when coordinators try to force a system on the players rather than build a system around the players strengths. Pep is the exact opposite of Arians in terms of scheme, but they share the same flaw. I'm not impressed so far

 

I will say, however, that at least Arians was smart enough to realize who the offense should be centered around. You don't handle the most highly touted QB prospect in 15 years with training wheels in year 2. You just don't

[masterlock]

I really don't understand what's so hard to grasp about this....Pep is building the type of offense that Irsay wants.  Irsay, the guy that owns the team.  The guy that calls the shots.  He's the guy that hired Grigson to bring in players that are best suited for this type of offense.  Irsay and Grigson brought in Pagano, who wanted to build the type of team that Irsay and Grigson also want.  After Arians' left, they went out and brought in Pep to run the type of offense that they all want, which is the type of offense that Pep is running.  If you don't like this type of offense then you're not going to like the Colts until Irsay retires.  Deal with it! ;)

I disagree. To my knowledge, all Irsay demanded was that they build a more well-rounded, championship-caliber team, one that didn't just depend on offense. I seriously doubt he gave a specific order to become a "power run" team. Irsay is only concerned--and rightly--with getting more rings. That is more readily achieved by utilizing your best talent, which as the roster currently stands, means using Luck to do more than just hand-off the football.

[Dudley Smith]

I don't think the offense is the issue-- merely the fact that the coaches seem unwilling to take chances within the system. The play-calling is very non-aggressive and conservative and you get the feeling that the "safe" play is always going to be called. We rarely see shots downfield which I think would help loosen up opposing defenses. Monday night we saw a huge pass on Play 1, then afterwards nothing outside of some desperation throws at the end of each half. Arians play-calling was very aggressive and made the opposing defenses be the ones that had to be "safe."

 

The repeated refusal to ever go for it on 4th down also shows a conservative mindset that simply has no place on a team that boasts an offense that includes Andrew Luck, Reggie Wayne, TY Hilton, and Trent Richardson. Monday night, the 3rd quarter 4th down in Chargers territory was a perfect example of a faulty conservative mindset-- especially considering how bad the D was struggling. The offense is not the problem-- it's just that the play-calling is too safe and conservative.

[Pelt]

I don't know why it is so hard for some to understand what the team is trying to do. They want to be a team that punches another team in the mouth on offense and defense. I love that they are trying to become that instead of the wussball we played for yrs. here and it always bit us in the backside come playoff time. 

 

The problem is we still don't have all the personnel to do it on a consistent basis. One thing that would help, is to put McGlynn back at center and put Satele on the waiver wire. We need more consistent play from our defense. I don't know why so many Colts fans are obsessed with Luck throwing the ball 50 times a game. It might work against some weaker teams, but come playoff time, it's a recipe for failure.

This X 1000

 

We were extremely effective with McGlynn at center and the whole offense had a great chemistry working.

 

Unfortunately, I believe that Pep is being forced to play Satele because Grigson is being too prideful, or stubborn about admitting that he made a mistake with Satele. If that is truly the case, then get used to poor line play the whole season, with no holes to run through and Luck running for his life with poor pass blocking.

 

Without an effective O-line, it doesn't matter what offensive philosphy Pep tries to go with. If you get pass-happy Luck will be running for his life again, and you run the risk of getting him injured.

 

What we need to do against Denver is exactly what the Chargers did to us Monday night - long sustained drives, but with effective rushing that milks the clock, while Manning stays on the sideline. If we try to get into a shootout with Denver, we will be guaranteed 4-3 going into the bye week.

[NagelHausForge]

One thing we need to remember is that this team is still trying to find it's identity this season.  The D has shown glimpses of what it can be but on Monday we were all reminded that there is still a lot of work that needs to be done and a lot of players that need to develop.

 

On the Offense's side of the ball I wouldn't say the Colts are a "Run First" team... they are more of a 50/50 pass/run team that wants to try and emphasize the ability to grind down the opposing D in order to open up the pass.  As we have seen at times this year the O line still needs work.  But again, as with the D, we have seen just what this team is capable of when firing on all cylinders.

 

Is it time to fire Pep Hamilton?  I don't think that would be the best move.  Do you really want Luck and co. to go through 3 coordinators in 3 years?  Consistency is the key to sustaining victories in the NFL.  We may not have all the pieces in place to go the distance this season, but perhaps after another draft and free agency period we might next year and the years beyond.

 

Remember, this team is only 1 year removed from a 2-14 season.  To go from that to leading the AFC South and going to the playoffs 2 years in a row is pretty dang remarkable.

 

Just trying to help keep things in perspective.

[tfunky14]

BUT...in the playoffs you need to run and stop the run to win games........thus why the Colts never went far in the playoffs.........

 

just saying to all the pass happy people.......