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With At Top 5 Pick, You Draft A Legend Not A Need.

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Mouthfire Walk On

Mouthfire

Posted
Posted

Too many childish posters to name, but you can count yourself among them. There are three hallmarks of childish posters.

1. Talking as if they were a player.

2. Snarky comments demonstrating superficial understanding

3. Attempts at in depth analyses with superficial understanding

Well, you fit at least two of the three. The first one is a bit trivial.

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Mouthfire Walk On

Mouthfire

Posted
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Or because I find it fun to watch people labor over false presumptions, misguided analysis, and a poor understanding of the Draft just to defend a position like it belongs to them.

There's no reason to get so personal, dude. But watching you squirm and get so defensive is just hilarious.

Indeed, Doogan... this entire thread is a bit of a train wreck. Entertaining, but a train wreck, nonetheless....

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GoDeep Walk On

GoDeep

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If Luck is there for our pick, we take him. Would you really pass on the POTENTIAL future of the frachise because the players might be mad? We may not get a high pick like this again, as long as Manning is back healthy.

Who cares if he sits for a couple years? We've seen what the lack of QB talent has done, do we want to continue this streak after Peyton hangs 'em up?

And this all may be moot anyway if the 'Phins keep stinking it up too.

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jskinnz Team Captain

jskinnz

Posted
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People keept talking about the draft in terms of position. In my opinion, you use a top five pick on the best player available. If Adrian Peterson is there, you draft him no matter how many running backs you have. If luck is there you get Luck. You don't go after Joe Blow CB because it is a need.

Andrew Luck will be the first pick in the draft. If the Colts have that pick and Manning has been deemed completely healthy, wouldn't it be prudent to trade the pick for the King's Ransom that someone will pay for the chance to draft luck? The bar was set yesterday of at least two # 1 picks for an older and frankly marginal QB in Palmer. Certainly a legend like Luck would command more than that. That not only sets them up for success in 2012 and Manning's final years, but for a period of time following.

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Portage Coltfans Walk On

Portage Coltfans

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I ask you Luck Lovers who is going to help him win a Superbowl? Because the core talent of this team is getting pretty old. I'm not sure how you guys think Mr. Legend aka Luck is going to win anything with this team he will inheirit from the post Manning ERA. Lets see who will be around to help him get off to a great start in 2016.

mathis - no

wayne - no

clark - no

saturday - no

bethea - no

People say ,"wait...Powers, garcon, angerer, and collie are good young guys." If you think they can replace the names I have listed above then we are in big trouble.

How is the "boy wonder" going to make the Colts good, with the talent he is going to have around him? We will be drafting #1 overall from 2016-2020, thats what you get if you Draft Luck. He can't win by himself, we need to get the rest of this team better first. So lets waste the opportunity to get Manning some good 1st round talent around him. I'll take some Superbowls now, and worry about getting a unproven "wonderboy" later.

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KirkCousins#8 Walk On

KirkCousins#8

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Luck just has 'potential'...that's all.I've seen alot of guys with 'potential' that couldn't hack it.Don't call him a legend,because he is not.And no i wouldn't take him when you actually have a 'true legend' already at that position.Its foolish and doesn't make sense,especially when that pick has so much trade value for us.

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Captain Americolt Walk On

Captain Americolt

Posted
Posted

Too many childish posters to name, but you can count yourself among them. There are three hallmarks of childish posters.

1. Talking as if they were a player.

2. Snarky comments demonstrating superficial understanding

3. Attempts at in depth analyses with superficial understanding

I was simply being curious. But i guess thats childish to you? You're way too offensive and seem to have problems with the differing opinions some people post here. And like gspdx posted in a different thread, I and most likely other readers won't pay attention to your posts based on the way you respond to people.

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super8todd Walk On

super8todd

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I ask you Luck Lovers who is going to help him win a Superbowl? Because the core talent of this team is getting pretty old. I'm not sure how you guys think Mr. Legend aka Luck is going to win anything with this team he will inheirit from the post Manning ERA. Lets see who will be around to help him get off to a great start in 2016.

mathis - no

wayne - no

clark - no

saturday - no

bethea - no

People say ,"wait...Powers, garcon, angerer, and collie are good young guys." If you think they can replace the names I have listed above then we are in big trouble.

How is the "boy wonder" going to make the Colts good, with the talent he is going to have around him? We will be drafting #1 overall from 2016-2020, thats what you get if you Draft Luck. He can't win by himself, we need to get the rest of this team better first. So lets waste the opportunity to get Manning some good 1st round talent around him. I'll take some Superbowls now, and worry about getting a unproven "wonderboy" later.

You have a point with aiming at 2016 and beyond... but i think you're overextending Manning's career. Realistically we only have 2 years left with him before he becomes a coach. His neck injury is already considered career-ending, with no one EVER making a comeback from it. He will be the first. Luck IS a win now.

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Mouthfire Walk On

Mouthfire

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You have a point with aiming at 2016 and beyond... but i think you're overextending Manning's career. Realistically we only have 2 years left with him before he becomes a coach. His neck injury is already considered career-ending, with no one EVER making a comeback from it. He will be the first. Luck IS a win now.

I don't know where you're getting that from. It's like, "if I say it enough, SOMEONE will think it's true!!!"

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super8todd Walk On

super8todd

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I don't know where you're getting that from. It's like, "if I say it enough, SOMEONE will think it's true!!!"

thats fine. you don't have to believe me and can live in denial. You must not have seen all of the doctor projections, them talk about previous neck injuries of previous sports professionals, but you can look it up for yourself. His neck injury is going to limit his throwing power. So basically, we will have a smart QB that can just make quick passes or hand it off to the RB. Not the old Peyton Manning we are used to. It will pain him to throw long for too long. So, that is why he might have 2 years left. its going to keep ailing him still over time.

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super8todd Walk On

super8todd

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Andrew Luck is looking like the kind of prospect that comes around once in a generation like Manning or Elway. He throws like Marino to boot.

Its about time someone else who's smart started posting in these forums. Just try to explain that to this message board environment.. you'd think we were living in 20,000 B.C.

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Mouthfire Walk On

Mouthfire

Posted
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thats fine. you don't have to believe me and can live in denial. You must not have seen all of the doctor projections, them talk about previous neck injuries of previous sports professionals, but you can look it up for yourself. His neck injury is going to limit his throwing power. So basically, we will have a smart QB that can just make quick passes or hand it off to the RB. Not the old Peyton Manning we are used to. It will pain him to throw long for too long. So, that is why he might have 2 years left. its going to keep ailing him still over time.

The guy has a bulging cervical disk with secondary brachial plexopathy. That's hardly the type of injury that ends a career. :rolleyes:

Edited by Mouthfire
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Captain Americolt Walk On

Captain Americolt

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thats fine. you don't have to believe me and can live in denial. You must not have seen all of the doctor projections, them talk about previous neck injuries of previous sports professionals, but you can look it up for yourself. His neck injury is going to limit his throwing power. So basically, we will have a smart QB that can just make quick passes or hand it off to the RB. Not the old Peyton Manning we are used to. It will pain him to throw long for too long. So, that is why he might have 2 years left. its going to keep ailing him still over time.

link??? Cuz idk where your getting all this "career-threatening" stuff. And the stuff in bold................

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Captain Americolt Walk On

Captain Americolt

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Its about time someone else who's smart started posting in these forums. Just try to explain that to this message board environment.. you'd think we were living in 20,000 B.C.

Someone else who's smart? Who's the other smart one?? You? You've been saying peytons surgery is career threatening and no evidence to prove it. Or was that also to say the rest of the forum readers/posters are dumb?

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super8todd Walk On

super8todd

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The guy has a bulging cervical disk with secondary brachial plexopathy. That's hardly the type of injury that ends a career. :rolleyes:

idk where you get this information. its like you make it up as you go along... lol. :scared: His surgery was for cervical fusion, and yes it has ended many careers. Of course you can type it into google and find it for yourself, i don't have time to research it for you. From what i remember, of course the healing process varies from each situation, but no QB has ever rebounded from it.. which throwing arm is important. Its the same injury that also took out his brother Cooper, if you want to know how serious it is. Of course he's going to play next year, but within 2 years the multiple surgery route is going to be frustrating for everyone, if it tears and flairs up again.

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super8todd Walk On

super8todd

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Someone else who's smart? Who's the other smart one?? You? You've been saying peytons surgery is career threatening and no evidence to prove it. Or was that also to say the rest of the forum readers/posters are dumb?

I don't have evidence to prove the future. But yes, i was saying the lot of you are dumb for thinking Manning is going to be playing for another 5 years. I have nothing to prove either way, I'm just saying.

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wordofmouth Practice Squad

wordofmouth

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Matt Kalil OT .... potentially an OL star and future Hall of Famer (Yes, I am hyping him). There you go, there's the legend for the Colts to take.

Thanks for moving the conversation forward!

IF we have the #1 I would love to be a fly on the wall in the front office becasue it will be be a tough decision on what to do. The first question will be what does Mannings future look like? and of course there will be no definitive way of knowing that. The next factor would be, what can we get for the #1 pick? If Luck is rated as high in GM's around the leagues minds as they are in the medias mind, then we may get an offer that we can't refuse.

As Rockywoj stated, there may be "legends" in the draft not named Luck and if we can find one of those guys along with several other solid players it might be worth it.

The next question would be, would Luck agree to come to the Colts and sit. Maybe, the prospect of staying healthy and learning from a real "legend".... Jim Cladwell ( just kidding!) might be more appealing to him then we think. Or, might not.

It's a good year to have the top pick with the new CBA in place. If we draft Luck it won't AS big a finacial comitment and teams will be willing to give up even more to move up for the same reason.

One last thought: I CAN'T BELIEVE IT IS OCTOBER 24 AND I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THE DRAFT ALREADY!!!!! AAGHH!!!!

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Betty27_1 Walk On

Betty27_1

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idk where you get this information. its like you make it up as you go along... lol. :scared: His surgery was for cervical fusion, and yes it has ended many careers. Of course you can type it into google and find it for yourself, i don't have time to research it for you. From what i remember, of course the healing process varies from each situation, but no QB has ever rebounded from it.. which throwing arm is important. Its the same injury that also took out his brother Cooper, if you want to know how serious it is. Of course he's going to play next year, but within 2 years the multiple surgery route is going to be frustrating for everyone, if it tears and flairs up again.

Cooper did not have the same thing. Spinal Stenosis is what ended Cooper's career before it even started. Peyton's problem is nowhere near being as serious as Cooper's.

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Mouthfire Walk On

Mouthfire

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Posted (edited)

idk where you get this information. its like you make it up as you go along... lol. :scared: His surgery was for cervical fusion, and yes it has ended many careers. Of course you can type it into google and find it for yourself, i don't have time to research it for you. From what i remember, of course the healing process varies from each situation, but no QB has ever rebounded from it.. which throwing arm is important. Its the same injury that also took out his brother Cooper, if you want to know how serious it is. Of course he's going to play next year, but within 2 years the multiple surgery route is going to be frustrating for everyone, if it tears and flairs up again.

picard-facepalm.jpg

First of all, Peyton didn't get surgery FOR cervical fusion. Cervical fusion IS the surgery. And what do you think anterior spinal fusions are for?

***drum roll, please***

http://www.spine-hea...ve-bulging-disc

There are many different terms used to describe spinal disc pathology and associated pain, such as “herniated disc”, “pinched nerve”, and “bulging disc”, and all are used differently by doctors.

  • Anterior cervical discectomy and spine fusion. This is by far the most commonly preferred method among spine surgeons for most cervical herniated discs. In this surgery, the disc is removed through a small one-inch incision in the front of the neck.
  • After removing the disc, the disc space itself is fused.
  • A plate can be added in front of the graft for added stability and possibly a better fusion rate.

Note: Edited to give the appropriate face palm.....

Edited by Mouthfire
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Mouthfire Walk On

Mouthfire

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And since you don't seem to have any credible sources, I'll leave a few for you:

http://articles.lati...fusion-20110908

(Manning reportedly had weakness in his arm and pain in his lower back last week during practice, as reported earlier -- he'd had surgery for a herniated disc (AKA bulging disc) in late May.)

But there is no reason for undue worry yet, said Dr. Neel Anand, director of orthopedic spine surgery at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center.

"This is not a career-ending surgery or a condition. He should be fine to get back next season," Anand said of the single-level anterior fusion.

And here is Dr. Joseph Maroon, the vice-chairman and professor of a prestigious top-10 neurosurgical program in the country at UPMC.

http://thechart.blog...nnings-surgery/

It's realistic for Manning to come back to playing in eight to 12 weeks, says Dr. Joseph C. Maroon, a neurosurgeon at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center and neurosurgeon for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Maroon did not treat Manning, but has operated on five NFL athletes and five professional wrestlers.

"This didn't ruin his career - it saved it, because it's going to get him out of pain and stabilize his spine and he should make a full recovery," Maroon said.

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BOTT Walk On

BOTT

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Now people are calling Andrew Luck a legend... this is getting pathetic.

he clearly isn't saying that. if think he is comparing it to something like the portland trailblazers passing on jordan because they had clyde drexler and needed a big man....and drafted sam bowie.

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Dustin Walk On

Dustin

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Trade the #1 pick to Miami for their next 2 drafts. There are still other Quality QB's in the draft. Here's a thought, you know why Indy hasn't won 5 Super Bowls with Manning? Because we rely on him too much. So those asking for Luck want to make the same mistake twice? Rely on only a QB to carry our team? I don't like the idea. Instead draft players to put around Manning for a few years. We can build for the future without Luck (not saying I don't want him) but for the long run we need a "team" not a single player.

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Ramblinwreck7 Walk On

Ramblinwreck7

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he clearly isn't saying that. if think he is comparing it to something like the portland trailblazers passing on jordan because they had clyde drexler and needed a big man....and drafted sam bowie.

You do realize that you can play 2 PG's or SG's at once right? You can't play 2 quarterbacks at once.

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Flash7 Team Captain

Flash7

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I ask you Luck Lovers who is going to help him win a Superbowl? Because the core talent of this team is getting pretty old. I'm not sure how you guys think Mr. Legend aka Luck is going to win anything with this team he will inheirit from the post Manning ERA. Lets see who will be around to help him get off to a great start in 2016.

mathis - no

wayne - no

clark - no

saturday - no

bethea - no

People say ,"wait...Powers, garcon, angerer, and collie are good young guys." If you think they can replace the names I have listed above then we are in big trouble.

How is the "boy wonder" going to make the Colts good, with the talent he is going to have around him? We will be drafting #1 overall from 2016-2020, thats what you get if you Draft Luck. He can't win by himself, we need to get the rest of this team better first. So lets waste the opportunity to get Manning some good 1st round talent around him. I'll take some Superbowls now, and worry about getting a unproven "wonderboy" later.

If you project Luck to play in 2016, my guess is that by then we would have had many other drafts. The guys that you mentioned, Mathis, Wayne, Clark, Saturday, and Bethea all came from the draft. It's not like if we choose Luck, we will not be able to draft any other players. Your agrument sounds like we draft Luck and go home, end of draft. How do you know that we can't draft Luck and then draft replacement guys? We would have the first pick in every round of the next draft and can choose from the best available players in each round. We would also have numerous other draft picks prior to 2016, which is when you are projecting Luck to play. I'm not entirely sure that's accurate either.

I am not a "Luck lover" and think that it may be a better decision to evaluate Manning, evaluate Luck, and weigh out if it would be a better option to take Luck as a QB, take luck and then trade him, or trade the pick during the draft. It's too early to tell.

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Mouthfire Walk On

Mouthfire

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If you project Luck to play in 2016, my guess is that by then we would have had many other drafts. The guys that you mentioned, Mathis, Wayne, Clark, Saturday, and Bethea all came from the draft. It's not like if we choose Luck, we will not be able to draft any other players. Your agrument sounds like we draft Luck and go home, end of draft. How do you know that we can't draft Luck and then draft replacement guys? We would have the first pick in every round of the next draft and can choose from the best available players in each round. We would also have numerous other draft picks prior to 2016, which is when you are projecting Luck to play. I'm not entirely sure that's accurate either.

I am not a "Luck lover" and think that it may be a better decision to evaluate Manning, evaluate Luck, and weigh out if it would be a better option to take Luck as a QB, take luck and then trade him, or trade the pick during the draft. It's too early to tell.

Well, there's a problem with that. If you look at the Colts drafting history, they're historically done much better when draft near the middle of the draft or earlier, rather than at the bottom of the 1st. I've created a separate thread detailing this, if anyone is interested.

http://forums.colts....afting-history/

But the bottom line is: once Manning comes back, we're going to be stuck drafting near the end of the 1st round again for quite a few years. If Luck is as good as advertised, then you're going to be stuck drafting near the end of the 1st round even longer. So if you don't fix the defense now, there's a really good chance it won't get fixed anywhere in the near future, because quite frankly the Colts stink when picking near the end of the first.

Edited by Mouthfire
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