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My take on T-Rich...


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Both of those teams were better overall than the Browns. And certainly had better lines than the Colts.

Not trying to absolve Richardson, but it's not really apples to apples.

This is his perfect situation. If he can't thrive here. Then he's a bust.

oh i agree.. better lines IMO.  i was just saying that is not true that those teams had more help...

 

those teams sucked

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And yet Harvin was christened as the next coming of God himself this past offseason when traded to Seattle, and people all over this board were clamoring for Bowe like he should change his name to "the Answer".

have you not seen Min this year? it doesnt matter if they have harvin as long as ponder is their QB AP still gets loaded boxes...and still gets amazing numbers

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TRich struggled on the Browns because he was the ONLY real threat. All the guys you mention are far from the only threats on their respective teams.

So now you want to say that the Colts definitely have more threats, so what gives?...

I'd suggest 2 things: first, the Colts use some complex blocking schemes, and TRich has a learning curve to adjust to them. second, as improved as the Colts OLine might be at times over last year, it still has a ways to go before it can be considered "good".

I've said the same about Brown in years past... it is difficult to prove your worth as a RB when you are getting hit 2+ yards behind the line of scrimmage.

 

So Bradshaws average is 4.5 ypc behind this same offensive line.  There really no excuses.  Bradshaw was getting the same treatment as T-Rich.  Im a T-Rich fan I think he has a ton of potential, just needs better vision.  

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But yet DB behind the same offensive line is averaging over 4 yds a carry.  I think once T-Rich improves his vision he will be fine.  He has all the physical tools already. 

DB sees a completely  different defense than T-Rich. 

 

From Pagano, "When you break us down statistically, Donnie is in there on a lot of passing downs so defensively they figure “not going to run the ball, they are going to pass the ball”. So they play coverage, don’t load the box up."

 

I think T-Rich is doing an excellent job and that he and Donald are a great 1-2 combination -- I think T-Rich's ability to grind and play that hard-nosed game really opens things up for Donald when he comes in.

 

As pointed out by the OP, there were countless times when T-Rich was being hit in the backfield or right at the line -- so I don't really worry about his YPC being all that great -- he provides a major threat to opposing defenses that allows us to hit on major plays, whether it be a 73 yard bomb to TY or a 50 yard scamper from Donnie Brown.

 

It is good to have T-Rich on this team, without a doubt.

 

What is going to be scary is, at some point, teams are going to start being very worried about those 73 yard pass plays when T-Rich is in and we'll see what he can do when he doesn't face a loaded box or 2-3 defenders hitting him behind the line of scrimmage.

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Brown has been injured way too often for my liking, but I'm confused by the constant reference to the lack of yards gained. His career AVERAGE prior to this year is more than TRich's.

Which is misleading and part of the debate. Way to many times did I see brown dance in the backfield and get swallowed up. Or go down like it was two hand touch on first contact. Then he would bust a big run to help his ypc. Now granted that May have been the line. I'm not knocking him at all, he had looked great in his roll this year. Just the knock on Trent is ridiculous.

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T-Rich is still learning. A lot has to do with trusting your o-line and learning their blocking schemes.

A case in point was brought up on NFL network, I believe. It really explained what is going on.

In one play, they showed the difference between when Bradshaw made a huge run. In that moment, you see how he waited patiently for the o-line to make it's blocks, made a move/shift, and busted a huge gain.

They then showed TR in the same formation. In this case, he wasn't patient, didn't wait for the blocks and instead tried to run through the blocks. In other words, he didn't allow the play to develop, resulting in him not being able to make a huge gain.

It all comes down to learning the offense and I think that's what's going to take some time for him. Yes, he ran in Cleveland, but based on blocking schemes, etc, each offense can be different and it can take time to learn that scheme and take advantage of it.

But, what I DO like with TY is that the guy doesn't quit trying to run and even though he's averaging less than 4 ypc, he's getting positive yards, and he seems to be money when it comes to short-yardage situations, just like when he busted through for a goal - line TD. Remember in the past when Edge (and I love him and will always be thankful the Colts drafted him), but when they went 4 and out at the goal line, it just didn't happen. Again, that can also be due to the front-line not executing it's blocks effectively, but it seems since then, the Colts have had issues on short-yardage situations.

With AB, DB and TR, I think the Colts finally have a power running game that speaks volumes. I mean, look at what has happened - 5 games in a row with 100+ yards rushing. When was the last time THAT happened?

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Which is misleading and part of the debate. Way to many times did I see brown dance in the backfield and get swallowed up. Or go down like it was two hand touch on first contact. Then he would bust a big run to help his ypc. Now granted that May have been the line. I'm not knocking him at all, he had looked great in his roll this year. Just the knock on Trent is ridiculous.

Not at all.....Prior to Richardson coming over, last year if Brown got taken down in the backfield it was "Brown stinks...Browns awful GD Donald Brown" Now that its Richardson getting taken down in the backfield its "Satele stink, Mcglynn stinks, Our O line could not open up any holes" when Bradshaw (without any OTA's or TC or pre season) was able to run extremely well behind these same O Linemen

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I've read a lot about how he's not as good, we wasted a pick, blah, blah, blah...

 

Yesterday at least 4-5 times when he got the handoff there was 2-3 hawks 2 yards deep waiting for him or 2-3 hawks bottling up the inside lanes. The Hawks blew our line up

 

We still have blocking issues for sure, but there were times when he got those yards we need. That 3rd and five was Bigtime!!

 

I love the guy. I am a little confused on why on each of the 2 point conversion attempts that he wasn't in or get the call there. We got this guy to get 3rd and one and 3rd and two..

 

Colts will figure it out and only get better. I'm loving us right now

He's ours...now..

...But the yards per carry for his career....3.9 is troublesome

He will get better..

But we didnt need to spend a No.1 on a running back....remember what you're saying at drafttime in 2014

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Not at all.....Prior to Richardson coming over, last year if Brown got taken down in the backfield it was "Brown stinks...Browns awful GD Donald Brown" Now that its Richardson getting taken down in the backfield its "Satele stink, Mcglynn stinks, Our O line could not open up any holes" when Bradshaw (without any OTA's or TC or pre season) was able to run extremely well behind these same O Linemen

But then Ballard produced behind the same line. Vrown has played and ran much better this year. Maybe it's line, maybe it's a contract year, maybe he's running with a chip in his shoulder for getting dissed not once or twice but three times. Hope he keeps it up and hope that Trent starts popping off some bigger chunks.

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When we run with T-Rich it is too predictable. Let him run out of single back formations and shot gun as Brown has done. I think he has a big week this week in SD.. He is still adjusting, 2nd play book learned this year, and has faced a very good Seattle D.

 

He will be fine

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I've read a lot about how he's not as good, we wasted a pick, blah, blah, blah...

 

Yesterday at least 4-5 times when he got the handoff there was 2-3 hawks 2 yards deep waiting for him or 2-3 hawks bottling up the inside lanes. The Hawks blew our line up

 

We still have blocking issues for sure, but there were times when he got those yards we need. That 3rd and five was Bigtime!!

 

I love the guy. I am a little confused on why on each of the 2 point conversion attempts that he wasn't in or get the call there. We got this guy to get 3rd and one and 3rd and two..

 

Colts will figure it out and only get better. I'm loving us right now

He's ours...now..

...But the yards per carry for his career....3.9 is troublesome

He will get better..

But we didnt need to spend a No.1 on a running back....remember what you're saying at drafttime in 2014

 

I think we all know how it would go.  In 2014, we would have drafted someone with a 1st round grade, but with some questionmarks like any other prospect drafted outside the top 10.  Then, we'd be hyped up about him during the offseason.  After the first game of the regular season, he'd underperform like 99.9% of rookies do, and after the game for the next week we'd probably post up articles about how we should have drafted someone else.  You don't need to search far and wide, just look at some of hte old Bjoern Werner articles.

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Not at all.....Prior to Richardson coming over, last year if Brown got taken down in the backfield it was "Brown stinks...Browns awful GD Donald Brown" Now that its Richardson getting taken down in the backfield its "Satele stink, Mcglynn stinks, Our O line could not open up any holes" when Bradshaw (without any OTA's or TC or pre season) was able to run extremely well behind these same O Linemen

QFT

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QFT

Its not all on Richardson though, people want to pin it all on one person. in this case its both at different times, What I have noticed is on handoffs to Richardson that Luck takes 2-3-4 steps back in some cases prior to Richardson coming forward for the hand off so if the ball is handed off to Richardson there are times the Linebackers are already in position to stop him.

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First off, loving T-Rich. I understand the comments on his vision....He def has room to improve his vision. I also feel like he just isnt there yet on the receiving end. I cant point out any play in particular but I remember thinking to myself that maybe he just doesn't know his routes yet, or perhaps him and Luck aren't on the same page....His blocking and short yardage running has been phenomenal, and I love it....

 

One thing I havent liked a whole lot is his 'usage'. I like the fact that he is getting 20+ touches a game, I just wish they were coming in different formations, and downs. It seems to me he is going against a stacked box, up the middle on every 1st and 10. The plays seem fairly 'telegraphed', and I havent seen him get the ball in space at all....Perhaps a screen pass here or there, a few of the Donald Brown draw plays, and maybe a few more off tackle runs...I think a combination of those would take that YPC from 3.0 to around 4.0 pretty quickly. 

 

 

And as for the "well Peterson/Charles/Rice etc were the loan options and they produced"....T-Rich has started 16 games in his career, and played 20 games overall and has 349/1206/13 TDs, to go with 59/424/1....The guy is pretty special. That amounts to roughly 20 touches, 81yds, and a TD a game in a very short career....

 

TRich....20/81/.7

AP.........22/116/.9 (Best RB in the world, and league MVP)

Charles.15/92/.4

Rice.......19/104/.5 

 

Really not that large of a gap on a career per game basis. What he lacks in yardage, he makes up for in TD %. 

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Hey guys, greetings from believeland.

 

I see a lot of posters making the point that Richardson needs to work on his vision. I would absolutely agree with that, but I'm just not of the belief that instincts and vision can be taught. Sure he can get more comfortable in the offense and hopefully that will help him, but I want to show you all something from last year. It absolutely tells the story of his lack of vision.

 

I heard constantly how Richardson didn't have anywhere to run while he was here and that simply was not true. He just doesn't hit holes when they are there, so it gives the appearance that he has no where to run. 

 

 

Here is a hole he needs to hit. It's a crease but any NFL running back needs to hit this hole.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-NYG-1C-420x314.png

 

He tried to bounce it outside (which he does ALL the time) and gets tackled for no gain.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-NYG-1E-420x318.png

 

Here is a play against you guys, in Indy where he has a very solid hole right in front of him.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-IND-1C-420x312.png

 

He tried to bounce this run outside and loses yards.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-IND-1G--420x308.png

 

More of the same, he has a huge hole and tries to jump over the top and we kick a field goal.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-DAL-1E-420x305.png

 

More lack of vision.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-PIT-1C-420x309.png

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-PIT-1E-420x312.png

 

 

 

Trent has all of the physical tools to succeed in the NFL. He's strong, he's tough, he's hardworking, impossible to tackle one on one, good hands and he is a good kid. I'm just not sure, at this point in his career that you can teach instincts and vision. I really hope he can be taught because he is a good kid. I'm just not sure it's possible. 

 

 

All of this is summed up in this very well written article. 

 

http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/

 

Good Luck this season guys. Pun intended.  ;)

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Hey guys, greetings from believeland.

 

I see a lot of posters making the point that Richardson needs to work on his vision. I would absolutely agree with that, but I'm just not of the belief that instincts and vision can be taught. Sure he can get more comfortable in the offense and hopefully that will help him, but I want to show you all something from last year. It absolutely tells the story of his lack of vision.

 

I heard constantly how Richardson didn't have anywhere to run while he was here and that simply was not true. He just doesn't hit holes when they are there, so it gives the appearance that he has no where to run. 

 

 

Here is a hole he needs to hit. It's a crease but any NFL running back needs to hit this hole.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-NYG-1C-420x314.png

 

He tried to bounce it outside (which he does ALL the time) and gets tackled for no gain.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-NYG-1E-420x318.png

 

Here is a play against you guys, in Indy where he has a very solid hole right in front of him.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-IND-1C-420x312.png

 

He tried to bounce this run outside and loses yards.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-IND-1G--420x308.png

 

More of the same, he has a huge hole and tries to jump over the top and we kick a field goal.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-DAL-1E-420x305.png

 

More lack of vision.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-PIT-1C-420x309.png

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-PIT-1E-420x312.png

 

 

 

Trent has all of the physical tools to succeed in the NFL. He's strong, he's tough, he's hardworking, impossible to tackle one on one, good hands and he is a good kid. I'm just not sure, at this point in his career that you can teach instincts and vision. I really hope he can be taught because he is a good kid. I'm just not sure it's possible. 

 

 

All of this is summed up in this very well written article. 

 

http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/

 

Good Luck this season guys. Pun intended.  ;)

welcome to the forum and great post

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have you not seen Min this year? it doesnt matter if they have harvin as long as ponder is their QB AP still gets loaded boxes...and still gets amazing numbers

 

The difference are the big runs.  Teams have done an ok job of slowing down AP this year, and it's why the Vikings are losing so much.

 

Take 3 of Adrian Petersons biggest runs this season, 78, 60, and 36 yards.  Take those 3 runs away and he has 247 yards on 89 carries, 2.78 ypc.  

 

Patience.  Trent has competed against mostly top tier defenses all year and been learning a new playbook.  He'll have a breakout game given time and health.

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But yet DB behind the same offensive line is averaging over 4 yds a carry.  I think once T-Rich improves his vision he will be fine.  He has all the physical tools already. 

I completely agree with your observation about his vision, give him time...once he gets a great feel for cutback lanes and the oline he will be fine. After all im sure he's getting the same blocking D brown is.

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Not at all.....Prior to Richardson coming over, last year if Brown got taken down in the backfield it was "Brown stinks...Browns awful GD Donald Brown" Now that its Richardson getting taken down in the backfield its "Satele stink, Mcglynn stinks, Our O line could not open up any holes" when Bradshaw (without any OTA's or TC or pre season) was able to run extremely well behind these same O Linemen

So the people last year blaming the line to save Brown, are now blaming Trent, and the people last year blaming Brown, are now blaming the line?

Seems legit.

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So the people last year blaming the line to save Brown, are now blaming Trent, and the people last year blaming Brown, are now blaming the line?

Seems legit.

not sure how many were blaming the O Line for Brown, I saw lot of Brown getting blamed though, Bottom line is, a running back hs to be able t adjust if a hole is not open that should be, the good ones can, I think Richardson will eventually  get there

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not sure how many were blaming the O Line for Brown, I saw lot of Brown getting blamed though, Bottom line is, a running back hs to be able t adjust if a hole is not open that should be, the good ones can, I think Richardson will eventually get there

Not sure if serious about no one blaming the OLine for Brown.......

It was that or "wait for him to be healthy."

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Not sure if serious about no one blaming the OLine for Brown.......

It was that or "wait for him to be healthy."

Probably was some of that to. I just ont remember that off top of my head, its a forum all kinds of opinions, but I saw alot GD Donald Brown, Donald Brown sucks stuff

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Probably was some of that to. I just ont remember that off top of my head, its a forum all kinds of opinions, but I saw alot GD Donald Brown, Donald Brown sucks stuff

And the counter to why he didn't suck was usually that our line sucked more.

Not trying to make a stink lol. Just funny how the roles flipped a little this offseason.

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My take on TRich: On the last drive yesterday, Indy faced a 3rd and 5, and they ran the ball. And TRich ran for 10 yards after being hit multiple times.  That too me, is freakin' awesome.  

It was a tough as nails type run (I am watching it right now)......Believe me a tough run and he earned every one of them 10 yards but he missed a complete breakdown on the right side, a huge hole

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And the counter to why he didn't suck was usually that our line sucked more.

Not trying to make a stink lol. Just funny how the roles flipped a little this offseason.

its really a case of both points of view, at times Richardson misses creases and holes, other times the O Line breaks down

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Hey guys, greetings from believeland.

 

I see a lot of posters making the point that Richardson needs to work on his vision. I would absolutely agree with that, but I'm just not of the belief that instincts and vision can be taught. Sure he can get more comfortable in the offense and hopefully that will help him, but I want to show you all something from last year. It absolutely tells the story of his lack of vision.

 

I heard constantly how Richardson didn't have anywhere to run while he was here and that simply was not true. He just doesn't hit holes when they are there, so it gives the appearance that he has no where to run. 

 

 

Here is a hole he needs to hit. It's a crease but any NFL running back needs to hit this hole.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-NYG-1C-420x314.png

 

He tried to bounce it outside (which he does ALL the time) and gets tackled for no gain.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-NYG-1E-420x318.png

 

Here is a play against you guys, in Indy where he has a very solid hole right in front of him.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-IND-1C-420x312.png

 

He tried to bounce this run outside and loses yards.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-IND-1G--420x308.png

 

More of the same, he has a huge hole and tries to jump over the top and we kick a field goal.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-DAL-1E-420x305.png

 

More lack of vision.

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-PIT-1C-420x309.png

 

Trent-Richardson-vs-PIT-1E-420x312.png

 

 

 

Trent has all of the physical tools to succeed in the NFL. He's strong, he's tough, he's hardworking, impossible to tackle one on one, good hands and he is a good kid. I'm just not sure, at this point in his career that you can teach instincts and vision. I really hope he can be taught because he is a good kid. I'm just not sure it's possible. 

 

 

All of this is summed up in this very well written article. 

 

http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/browns-film-room-trent-richardson/

 

Good Luck this season guys. Pun intended.  ;)

 

 

:clap:  :clap:  :clap: 

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It was a tough as nails type run (I am watching it right now)......Believe me a tough run and he earned every one of them 10 yards but he missed a complete breakdown on the right side, a huge hole

 

I disagree.  Rewatch the highlight, Michael Bennett had the right side shutdown, TRich only broke the tackle because he went left.  If he had gone right Bennett would've cleaned his clock and we'd be complaining about how poor Richardsons vision is.  Wait...

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I hate to be on the side of Jim Brown, but his initial thoughts on Richardson were correct....he is ordinary. There isn't really anything that sticks out about him....he isn't quick thru the hole, he doesn't have top speed, he doesn't seem to have great vision. And honestly, he doesn't seem to fall forward like a lot runners who have his style. On the bright side, he does seem to have good feet for a guy his size when he can gets to the second level and I do think he will be a good receiver once he get more acclimated.

Then again, I'm wrong.......a lot. And I will concede that Pep isn't always putting him in the best situations for success.

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I think we need to use more single back sets. We are very predictable running the ball, especially with the fb

 

 

Then again, I'm wrong.......a lot. And I will concede that Pep isn't always putting him in the best situations for success.

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The difference are the big runs.  Teams have done an ok job of slowing down AP this year, and it's why the Vikings are losing so much.

 

Take 3 of Adrian Petersons biggest runs this season, 78, 60, and 36 yards.  Take those 3 runs away and he has 247 yards on 89 carries, 2.78 ypc.  

 

Patience.  Trent has competed against mostly top tier defenses all year and been learning a new playbook.  He'll have a breakout game given time and health.

Im not one of those that thinks Trent sucks and that It was such an awful trade. I have been honest that i love the player but had my reservations of trading a 1st for a RB.  But i want this kid to be a beast,  not to be right about having questions regarding 1st picks and RB.

 

I know that we all need to be patient and quite frankly, I am. i dont expect him to just abuse the top defenses. I was just stating that it isnt true that those rb had more help than Trent on Cleveland.

 

and yea, of coursse take away thsoe long runs and he looks average...but thats my point, big time players make big time plays, AP fits that bill. We are waiting on Trent, and I hope he becomes what Grigson envisions. It's been so long since last time we actually had a running game, I miss it.

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Okay well before everyone goes nuts give him a couple more game please, its his 3rd game and only been on the team for 2 and a half weeks.  before we go crazy lets just be patient.  WE WON AGAINST THE SEAHAWKS lets focus on that and that we are 3-0 with T Rich.  He does other things really well like blocking for luck.  Give him time and then we can really see if he is good or not

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I hate to be on the side of Jim Brown, but his initial thoughts on Richardson were correct....he is ordinary. There isn't really anything that sticks out about him....he isn't quick thru the hole, he doesn't have top speed, he doesn't seem to have great vision. And honestly, he doesn't seem to fall forward like a lot runners who have his style. On the bright side, he does seem to have good feet for a guy his size when he can gets to the second level and I do think he will be a good receiver once he get more acclimated.

Then again, I'm wrong.......a lot. And I will concede that Pep isn't always putting him in the best situations for success.

I agree on this. It seems its predictable when we are running up the gut and the other defense just stacks the line. Everytime there was an I formation we ran the ball with trent and seattle knew it. There is a reason why Donald has looked successfull on some runs. Most of them were shotgun draws with 3 wr sets that spread the D, so Donald didndt face the same loaded box.

 

I like the whole I formation or power formatiosn with only 1 WR but we are not that powerfull OL yet, i think we should mix up some more 3 WR runs under center, as well as some shotgun draws with Trich as the back, he would find more run IMo.

 

another thing is, why dont we throw more RB screens? i think we have thrown 2 all year.

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As soon as pep finally started changing up his running at she started getting big chunks also. I understand what they are doing. They are saying 'we are running it down your throat try to stop us' guess what sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Out line is not there yet. But he still manages to grind it out for positive yards. Guessing they want to wear them down then hit them with Brown.

Not only that the Colts want attention payed to the running game. Without that we would see what we saw all of last season. The defense spending all it's time on Luck. TRich might not be that big yardage RB that everyone wants to see but as long as he is good enough to make the other teams defense spend time on stopping him he is doing his job. 

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    • I will say that both prospects look like good NFL caliber guys. Cosmi has moved into late first round talk but unless there is a run on Tackles (very possible) I see him being there in the early second round. Jenkins to me is more likely an early to late 20’s pick.  Cosmi is a good athlete with a lot of upside at LT. If he takes to coaching he can be a very solid LT allowing us to have a dominant left side. He just will need a year or two IMO.    Jenkins reminds me of a Braden Smith type player. Smith did play Guard at Auburn but had great technique even though he has short arms many believed Guard was it for him. Jenkins appears to be the opposite. Playing RT but being looked at as only IOL by some because of length. Now the comparison to Smith comes with his solid technique. I have mentioned that Jenkins to me was a Guard but he just has that play style you want and I don’t see his length being that huge of an impact since he has good form already.    I do see a run on OL guys making Ballard not trade back. If he was to trade back it would need to be only a hand full of picks IMO. Definitely not dropping out of the first. KC is for sure taking a tackle at the end of the round. 
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