We need to make some adjustments to our Offence.

[CCF]

 Let me start by saying I have no problem trying to power run, even if I don't believe this O-line is capable of doing it consistently. I support fully focusing on the run game and trying to build it up.

 

 My problem is T.Y. Hilton is such a game breaking talent when he touches the ball, that it makes no sense to put him on the sidelines. They need to do whatever they can to increase the plays he is on the field for, whether that means keeping DHB on the sidelines in 2 WR sets or running from 3 WR sets. He has to be on the field, because defenses will have to account for him at all times. 

 

 The use of Hilton is my biggest issue with Pep's play calling. And i hope they make some adjustments soon.

 

huge win today, GO COLTS!

[CR91]

we havent scored under 20 all season. if its not broken dont fix it

[Gavin]

Makes sense , Hilton is just the all around better wr

[CCF]

we havent scored under 20 all season. if its not broken dont fix it

The team is far more dynamic with T.Y. out there is what I am trying to say, the offense always has room for improvement and his talent is wasted if hes not on the field.

[tfunky14]

we havent scored under 20 all season. if its not broken dont fix it

I agree, besides Hilton is not a good blocker..

[dudeski]

we havent scored under 20 all season. if its not broken dont fix it

i don't agree with this

 

i am sure the coaches don't either.  we have to do what works best.  and playing an 11 personell seems to work the best

[dudeski]

I agree, besides Hilton is not a good blocker..

then i say we have him catch 150 yards worth of passes and multiple td's.

[Warhawk]

Meh... We're 4th in points scored, and the 3 teams ahead of us are allowing roughly 12 points per game more than us on defense.  In the span of 3 weeks we beat 2 of the top 3 preseason betting favorites to win the Super Bowl, and we'll have a crack at the third 2 weeks from now.

 

Last thing we need to do is start changing everything.

[jmac_48]

I thought <I know; dangerous> he was used quite well today????

 

What's the problem, there are many facets to this offense,

 

If you go to the same well to often, teams will be able to game plan against.

I like the multi-weapon approach.

[Gavin]

Part of the problem sometimes is Luck relies ALOT on Wayne to be open, he is the go to guy for Luck and rightfully so but I feel like he neglects other targets (and the stats back that up) to try to force it to Wayne even if he is not open, now it usually has a good result but sometimes it dont

[esmort]

Part of the problem sometimes is Luck relies ALOT on Wayne to be open, he is the go to guy for Luck and rightfully so but I feel like he neglects other targets (and the stats back that up) to try to force it to Wayne even if he is not open, now it usually has a good result but sometimes it dont

 

I agree sometimes there will be someone standing wide open and Luck is locked in on Wayne ... but like you said its hard to fault him for wanting to get it to Wayne ... I think any QB would have a hard time not locking onto him.

[TKnight24]

I agree sometimes there will be someone standing wide open and Luck is locked in on Wayne ... but like you said its hard to fault him for wanting to get it to Wayne ... I think any QB would have a hard time not locking onto him.

Part of the problem sometimes is Luck relies ALOT on Wayne to be open, he is the go to guy for Luck and rightfully so but I feel like he neglects other targets (and the stats back that up) to try to force it to Wayne even if he is not open, now it usually has a good result but sometimes it dont

Perfect example, the Dolphins game when he threw the interception. Griff Whalen wide open across the field in front of him at the 1st down. He instead throws it up for grabs at Reggie Wayne. After the game Andrew Luck admitted in an interview that he saw Whalen run right in front of him

[GoColts8818]

When the plays are there they take a shot.  The Colts normally go deep to Hilton at least once or twice a game.  Till today him and Luck just hadn't been on the same page (even his big catch in the Miami game was more of a great play on Hilton's part than anything else).  It took a little while for the Colts offense to get going today but once it did they didn't stop.  I think the blocked punt was the last time we punted all day.  After that the only drive that didn't end in points was the Luck fumble. 

[BOTT]

As Jim Sorgi pointed out, TY needs to run better/more consistent routes if he wants more targets....even though TY only had 3 less targets than Reggie coming into the Seahawks games.

[HtownColt]

27.8(6th) in league in scoring, nothing wrong with the offense

[GoColts8818]

27.8(6th) in league in scoring, nothing wrong with the offense

I think people just aren't used to the way we are doing it.  They aren't used to seeing us ranked in the middle 20's in terms of passing attack. 

[JoKeR]

I don't think the Colts will be a power run team, but they will be balanced. Even if it never works, they will use some power run formations just to get defenses expecting it, thus when they're in 3 wide sets the defense will bit on the pass, giving Richardson less backs looking to stop him.

[stat2883]

...but they will be balanced...

7 rushing TDs, tied with the Vikings and 49ers for 1st. Also 7 passing TDs. That's balance. I like what you guys are doing on offense and I think its one that can play in adverse conditions too late in the year.

[JoKeR]

27.8(6th) in league in scoring, nothing wrong with the offense

Ironic but true

4-1

[WaBWaWWaD]

27.8(6th) in league in scoring, nothing wrong with the offense

 

Agreed.If it aint broke...Hiton must be used like Wes Welker in Denver...Until he reaches that level...27.8 PPG is more than good enough.

[ruksak]

I'm at a point where it's become apparent to me that our guys know what they're doing. I'll trust them to their decisions and sit back, enjoy the success. I have no place to criticize professional NFL coaches. I drive a forklift for a living. 

[Warhawk]

Oh, and I forgot to check the stats I've been pushing for a while...

 

We are now 1st in time per drive (3:08), 2nd in points per drive (2.5, the Broncos are a mind-boggling 3.4), 2nd in lowest percentage of drives ending in turnovers (5.9%, the Titans are still first), and 3rd in percentage of drives ending in scores (45.1%, behind the Broncos and Packers).

 

Our defense is a bit more middling, but we're still top 11 in fewest points allowed per drive, lowest percentage of drives ending in scores, and highest percentage of drives ending in turnovers.

 

Anyway, point being, we have, statistically, one of the most efficient offenses in the NFL.  In regards to offensive drive efficiency, the only team that we can't argue we're better than is Denver - and Denver has a bottom 10 NFL defense.

 

People keep bringing up the Broncos game in the context of "well, we have to score on every drive to keep up with Manning."

 

Well, of the other 31 teams in the NFL, we're arguably the one who's doing that the best.  And as good as the Broncos are doing on offense, if you combine offensive and defensive drive scoring percentage, they are only ahead of us by the smallest of margins (we're at 45.1 : 27.8, they're at 57.4 : 39.1)

[OffensivelyPC]

I can honestly say that our offense is maddening sometimes.  Yesterday, with the 22 personnel, we just weren't doing anything.  We switched it to primarily more 3 WR sets, but still mixed in the 22 personnel.  I don't really understand why it works, but it does.  At the endo f the game, we had our way in the 4th quarter.  Yeah we passed in 3rd and long situations.  but even on the 3rd and 5, Trent ripped off a 10 yard run.  It's like as long as we keep the game close throughout, the 22 personnel really does wear down the opposing defense.  It's a patience thing, and I don't fully understand it, but at this point, I can't criticize it.  While I hate watching us get little to no return with the 22 personnel in the first half, I love seeing it thrive with the game on the line. 

[House]

We need to play all 4 quarters. Not just the last 3.

[Danfish98]

As has already been stated in this thread, going in to yesterday's game, TY had 3 less targets than Reggie.  He's getting his targets and yesterday Luck finally hit him on the deep ball.  I don't think anyone is suggesting he should get more targets than Reggie, and if they did I'm confident everyone would see that opinion as ridiculous.  DHB gets more snaps because he's a far superior blocker, so we use him on run downs.  TY is typically in there on passing downs and has the targets to match.  It's working and there's no reason at all to change it.

[stat2883]

It's a patience thing, and I don't fully understand it, but at this point, I can't criticize it.  While I hate watching us get little to no return with the 22 personnel in the first half, I love seeing it thrive with the game on the line. 

 

If one were so inclined and had the time to do so, I'd like to see a breakdown of the colts personnel and what types of plays they run in various situations.  Often times you will see plays being called early in a game (or even in prior weeks) to set up something different for later.  Take your short gains etc just to give the defense a certain look, then hit them with something else from the same look later in the game.

 

Say for example the previous couple weeks the colts maybe ran 60% of the time out of 22 personell on 2nd and less than 5.  Maybe you keep the trend going in the first half and Richardson maybe only gains a yard or two.  Then on 2nd and short again later in the game, hit them on the playaction out of 22 personnel.

 

I haven't looked myself, but I'd be willing to bet there was a trend they started going against in the 2nd half to catch the defense off guard.  I'm moving up to Seattle tomorrow, but maybe this weekend if I have a few hours...curious to see it now that I'm thinking about it.

[dudeski]

Agreed.If it aint broke...Hiton must be used like Wes Welker in Denver...Until he reaches that level...27.8 PPG is more than good enough.

hilton is too talented to be used like welker

 

let reggie play the welker role

[dudeski]

I can honestly say that our offense is maddening sometimes.  Yesterday, with the 22 personnel, we just weren't doing anything.  We switched it to primarily more 3 WR sets, but still mixed in the 22 personnel.  I don't really understand why it works, but it does.  At the endo f the game, we had our way in the 4th quarter.  Yeah we passed in 3rd and long situations.  but even on the 3rd and 5, Trent ripped off a 10 yard run.  It's like as long as we keep the game close throughout, the 22 personnel really does wear down the opposing defense.  It's a patience thing, and I don't fully understand it, but at this point, I can't criticize it.  While I hate watching us get little to no return with the 22 personnel in the first half, I love seeing it thrive with the game on the line. 

it is a bad formula for success. 

 

and i think what worked yesterday was the hurry up offense.  we kept putting ourselves back on the sideline running the 22 personnel.  if we can run it and consistently get 3.5 or 4 yards a carry then great

 

our running game works when we spread them out.  we dont have the kind of line to just line up and enforce our will.  you want to tire out a defense?  run out of 3 wides.  trich and brown will consistently be generating positive yards and keep drives alive. 

 

and for the love of god, check down to trich now and again

[Balzer40]

It's amazing, were one of the top offensive teams in the league, were 4-1, leading our division, and people think they know more than the coaching staff. Absolutely incredible!!! :slaphead:

[OffensivelyPC]

it is a bad formula for success. 

 

and i think what worked yesterday was the hurry up offense.  we kept putting ourselves back on the sideline running the 22 personnel.  if we can run it and consistently get 3.5 or 4 yards a carry then great

 

our running game works when we spread them out.  we dont have the kind of line to just line up and enforce our will.  you want to tire out a defense?  run out of 3 wides.  trich and brown will consistently be generating positive yards and keep drives alive. 

 

and for the love of god, check down to trich now and again

On the one hand, I agree with you.  On the other, I think we don't have the same success without it.  I've said it before, it doesn't make much sense to me, but the 22 personnel opens up other possibilities.  It's no different than working out and lifting weights to become stronger.  You put forth the effort and work in the offseason to become stronger when the season starts.  It sounds silly and stupid, but for whatever reason, it has worked with regard to the 22 personnel.  I never thought it would have the ability to give us the upper hand in the 4th quarter, but Rich rushed for a 5.2 YPC in the 4th against the Seahawks.  After running for a far less YPC in the first 3 quarters, I have a hard time believing that he just got better all of the sudden when the 4th quarter came around.  Pep has a method to his madness, and I find myself believing in it at this point.

[Gavin]

It's amazing, were one of the top offensive teams in the league, were 4-1, leading our division, and people think they know more than the coaching staff. Absolutely incredible!!! :slaphead:

These overreactions of yours are beginning to be a common thing now to be honest, I dont think anyone has said they know better then the coaching staff, whats wrong with discussing ideas fans have or disagreeing with a coaches decision

[Balzer40]

These overreactions of yours are beginning to be a common thing now to be honest, I dont think anyone has said they know better then the coaching staff, whats wrong with discussing ideas fans have or disagreeing with a coaches decision

 

 

 

I don't know how my statement was an over reaction at all. Apparently you didn't read thru the other comments. There are plenty of comments of what some would do different or how this don't work or that don't work, do this and do that, so on and so on. When a lot of people didn't think we had a chance in **** to beat San Fran and Seattle, yet we destroyed San Fran and beat Seattle both, people still complain. It's just freakin amazing to me at how some are never happy. It's...well nevermind, before I type something I shouldn't.

[throwing BBZ]

Pretty sure Pep is using a formula that has a proven history of winning Super Bowls.

Maybe we are not that good at some aspects of it 5 games into his reign, but there is still HOPE ;) we could get better at it if we keep working on it! :highfive:

 Loved his call for the bubble screen that FOOLED Sherman &? where Reggie Intercepted the pass to the wide open DHB.
 Pep gets how to set up a D. IMO
 Andrew is getting better quickly in this O, how much will they add to the complexity of the OFF over the next 11 games?

 Guaranteed it will be considerable. We are just getting started!!

 

 Right now we Are landing more Body Blows that are not as effective as we need in the running game, but I think Pep is showing all the qualities neccessary to build a diverse offense and to be a very good play caller.

[dudeski]

On the one hand, I agree with you.  On the other, I think we don't have the same success without it.  I've said it before, it doesn't make much sense to me, but the 22 personnel opens up other possibilities.  It's no different than working out and lifting weights to become stronger.  You put forth the effort and work in the offseason to become stronger when the season starts.  It sounds silly and stupid, but for whatever reason, it has worked with regard to the 22 personnel.  I never thought it would have the ability to give us the upper hand in the 4th quarter, but Rich rushed for a 5.2 YPC in the 4th against the Seahawks.  After running for a far less YPC in the first 3 quarters, I have a hard time believing that he just got better all of the sudden when the 4th quarter came around.  Pep has a method to his madness, and I find myself believing in it at this point.

trich doesn't have to run for so little though. 

 

we can run the ball without using the 22 personnel.  actually, we have proven we can do it very well.  using the 22 personnel does not help us at all.  sure use it on short yardage.  but we dont have the line to use it and gain even 3 ypc.  if we did that then i would say you are correct.  it is not creating good down and distances for us. 

 

getting trich or brown or whoever to the second level consistently will soften the d much more than just running into a wall of dlinemen

[dudeski]

I don't know how my statement was an over reaction at all. Apparently you didn't read thru the other comments. There are plenty of comments of what some would do different or how this don't work or that don't work, do this and do that, so on and so on. When a lot of people didn't think we had a chance in **** to beat San Fran and Seattle, yet we destroyed San Fran and beat Seattle both, people still complain. It's just freakin amazing to me at how some are never happy. It's...well nevermind, before I type something I shouldn't.

do me a favor

 

go back and watch the game.  look at who we have on the field and how many they have in the box.  you will see that every successful run is ran from a passing formation. 

[OffensivelyPC]

trich doesn't have to run for so little though. 

 

we can run the ball without using the 22 personnel.  actually, we have proven we can do it very well.  using the 22 personnel does not help us at all.  sure use it on short yardage.  but we dont have the line to use it and gain even 3 ypc.  if we did that then i would say you are correct.  it is not creating good down and distances for us. 

 

getting trich or brown or whoever to the second level consistently will soften the d much more than just running into a wall of dlinemen

I guess my point is, I think our running success in other formations is due to the "failures" in the 22 personnel.  I might be off my hinges and I'm open to someone proving me wrong.  But we just keep running the ball out of this formation, and in the second half, it appears to me to open up other possibilities.  When people say they use the run to set up the pass, that's short term.  When I say the 22 personnel opens up other formations, that's long term.  I have no idea if I'm right, and again, if someone can prove me wrong, I'm open to it.  But the bottom line is, we run the 22 personnel, and later on in the game, our rush attack reaps benefits.  Whether that's due to Luck, the 22 personnel, or a combination of both, I think it plays a part. 

[dudeski]

I guess my point is, I think our running success in other formations is due to the "failures" in the 22 personnel.  I might be off my hinges and I'm open to someone proving me wrong.  But we just keep running the ball out of this formation, and in the second half, it appears to me to open up other possibilities.  When people say they use the run to set up the pass, that's short term.  When I say the 22 personnel opens up other formations, that's long term.  I have no idea if I'm right, and again, if someone can prove me wrong, I'm open to it.  But the bottom line is, we run the 22 personnel, and later on in the game, our rush attack reaps benefits.  Whether that's due to Luck, the 22 personnel, or a combination of both, I think it plays a part. 

i see where you are coming from but i dont see how it makes much sense when you look at our success running as a whole.  we can run out of an 11 personnel in the 2nd quarter or 4th or 1st.  it doesnt matter. 

 

our 22 is not what is making our run game go late in games.  we would do a much better job of wearing their defense out by confusing them and then gashing them.  like we do when not in 22 personnell.  trich banging it up in there for 3 yards to 4 yards a carry will do a much better job at tiring a d than running into a wall of dlinemen.  what team does that?

 

do you think manning would let us run those plays right into the strength of the defense?  of course he wouldnt.  no team does what we do on offense when it comes to the running game.  the only success we are having is running when we have 7 lbers or less in the box.  we dont have the line to play the type of game they are calling

[chad72]

If the 22 personnel does not create mismatches like that No.46 (was it Dominique Jones) blocking Bruce Irvin, I am all for that second TE with the option to split Fleener as a 3rd receiving option. But like Luck told before the game, we have to take our shots and DHB, for all his speed, is not a 9 route guy, TY is better at that. You can mask TY's blocking in 2 WR formations by placing the strong side TE away from him thus rolling the safety in run support away from him. 

 

Besides, most of our runs have been between the tackles, rarely do they go outside the tackles. TY taking the CB 15 yards away from the play with his speed will give the RB ample room even if he goes outside the tackles. I am not expecting home run plays from our RBs anyway. Get enough for a 1st down in 1 or 2 carries, and that can still be accomplished with TY in 2 WR formations.

 

In fact, the hurry up bothered the Seahawks' big guys more than anything else.

[OffensivelyPC]

i see where you are coming from but i dont see how it makes much sense when you look at our success running as a whole.  we can run out of an 11 personnel in the 2nd quarter or 4th or 1st.  it doesnt matter. 

 

our 22 is not what is making our run game go late in games.  we would do a much better job of wearing their defense out by confusing them and then gashing them.  like we do when not in 22 personnell.  trich banging it up in there for 3 yards to 4 yards a carry will do a much better job at tiring a d than running into a wall of dlinemen.  what team does that?

 

do you think manning would let us run those plays right into the strength of the defense?  of course he wouldnt.  no team does what we do on offense when it comes to the running game.  the only success we are having is running when we have 7 lbers or less in the box.  we dont have the line to play the type of game they are calling

Yeah, and I'm not supporting it so much as trying to explain it.  Like I said, I don't get it and I'd like an explanation.  To my own confusion, no one can explain it and we're winning while using it.  I don't disagree with you, but I can't agree with you at the same time.  It is what it is and i'ts truly a mystery to me right now, anyway.

[Restored]

Pretty sure Pep is using a formula that has a proven history of winning Super Bowls.

Maybe we are not that good at some aspects of it 5 games into his reign, but there is still HOPE ;) we could get better at it if we keep working on it! :highfive:

Loved his call for the bubble screen that FOOLED Sherman &? where Reggie Intercepted the pass to the wide open DHB.

Pep gets how to set up a D. IMO

Andrew is getting better quickly in this O, how much will they add to the complexity of the OFF over the next 11 games?

Guaranteed it will be considerable. We are just getting started!!

Right now we Are landing more Body Blows that are not as effective as we need in the running game, but I think Pep is showing all the qualities neccessary to build a diverse offense and to be a very good play caller.

One other thing id like to point out is DHB dropped a pass on a bubble screen I believe in the latter portions of the game that probably could of gone all the way had he caught it.