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Irsay speaks about the Oakland game...Demands better


corgi

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Welcome to 2010 Jim.

It boggles my mind that through 2 front offices, 2 coaching staffs, and 2 top 5 QB's our line still couldn't stop a gaggle of baby geese from getting by them.

Our owner finally steps up and calls bull**** on it (after dropping fair coin on it just a few months back) and he needs to shut up?

Did I wake up in an alternate dimension this morning? Its his job to make sure that this team runs smoothly. He writes the freaking checks.

For everyone.

We're still starting mike freaking mcglynn.

The coaches and Grigson obviously aren't exactly giving it 100% to make our line as good as it needs to be. If Irsay doesn't say something who will? Who has the power to be heard and make necessary change if not him?

Its not like hes out of line, either. They sucked Sunday. You saw it, I saw it, the dog saw it, the cat saw it, Stevie freakin Wonder saw it.

They sucked.

Against the Raiders.

We're well past the point something needs to be said. Something needs to be DONE.

Don't take exception to the fact that Irsay said something. Take exception to the fact its had to be as bad as it has as long as it has before someone with the power to fix it did.

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Well, if we want to have a top O-line we need to start drafting them high...like #1 AND #2 is OL for a couple of years...and we probably will need to trade up.

BUT, Pagano is a D coach and he will always be looking for D players first.

Pagano isn't the one calling the shots on draft night though

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I don't see the Kraft family or the Rooney family calling out the coaches in public. What an owner says does not equate to what a fan says, sorry, not buying an iota of it!!! He has more power and visibility, so his opinions are heard more louder.

 

We know Irsay cares about the team passionately, we don't need constant reminders with tweets. All the large scale changes we went through showed us that. He can take the Theodore Roosevelt approach of "talk softly and carry a big stick" easily if he chooses to do so. He can easily keep things in house by picking up the phone and calling anyone, and express his concerns, and demand accountability. He does not need to lambast it out to the fans publicly at all.

 

That is what some fans just don't get.

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How do we know that Irsay is not in Pagano and Grigson's office saying things? If the guy is willing to tweet about his frustration and that things need to change to protect Luck there I have to imagine he does not see a problem with going and saying it to them as well.

To me this kind of stuff just needs handled within closed doors. It goes for the owner, player, and coaches. Let the coach give his platitudes at the conference and leave everything else behind closed doors.

how do you know he is?
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I don't see the Kraft family or the Rooney family calling out the coaches in public. What an owner says does not equate to what a fan says, sorry, not buying an iota of it!!! He has more power and visibility, so his opinions are heard more louder.

We know Irsay cares about the team passionately, we don't need constant reminders with tweets. All the large scale changes we went through showed us that. He can take the Theodore Roosevelt approach of "talk softly and carry a big stick" easily if he chooses to do so. He can easily keep things in house by picking up the phone and calling anyone, and express his concerns, and demand accountability. He does not need to lambast it out to the fans publicly at all.

That is what some fans just don't get.

This isn't any worse than Kraft saying publicly he would prefer to keep Tebow, or something to that effect, prior to cuts being made.

He just wants it to be public that the team wasn't good enough. It's not that crazy, that the owner of a team would feel that way, and try to pacify fans.

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Shut up Jim, leave the coaching to coaches, they recognize it more than they would acknowledge in public.

 

Please don't become a Jerry Jones and preserve the equity of respect you have earned over the years!!!

 

Casey, Carlie, Kalen, someone take the phone away from this tweetie bird, please!!! :)

 

I agree.

 

So, is it the owner that's the only one not allowed to have an opinion on this?

 

Of course not...but there is a time and place for everything.  Irsay has been preaching since before the manning release to keep things behind closed doors but he does not do the same.  Of course that's his right because he's the owner, but it also makes him a bit of a hypocrite. 

 

I'm sure if any of the players voiced displeasure about the coaching he'd not care for such an opinion. I know he's the head guy, but I'd prefer him to not "tweet" about the coaches. 

 

Agreed.  In fact it's not the entire tweet that I find distasteful, it's the last line, "I DEMAND better".  I have no issue with him tweeting about having to protect Luck better...that's obvious, of course they do.  I did notice that he did not include in his rant that Luck needs to do a better job of reading the blitz presnap and changing/adjusting the play as needed, but that's another story.  Still, the "I DEMAND better" to me just comes out wrong and I don't care for it.  He can say what he wants, he's the owner, but to me it is a poor way to motivate the team.

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its not dirty laundry dirty laundry suggests that it's a private issue the public doesn't know about. The whole world knows the protection wasn't good enough on Sunday. Heck Pagano just talked about it in his presser and Wayne said it in his radio show last night are they airing their dirty laundry too?

Hey, not quite the whole world. My old Auntie in the Highlands didn't know that. But she hasn't got any electricity. She did ask about RGIII's gimpy knee though.... 

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I don't understand this forum. The moment something goes wrong, you guys make panic threads talking about "fire him, bench him, the cheerleaders jump to high, los is too cold, etc etc"

Yet when our owner voices his opinion, it's a problem? :scratch:

So the guy who could easily disband our franchise and put everyone out of a job can't have a opinion on the team he controls?

 

Not a single person said he wasn't allowed to have an opinion.  The question is how and where he chooses to express that opinion. And yes, it is his right to do it, but just because it's his right to do it doesn't mean he's right in doing it.

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 Still, the "I DEMAND better" to me just comes out wrong and I don't care for it.  He can say what he wants, he's the owner, but to me it is a poor way to motivate the team.

 

I would rather him demand better protection than passively request it.

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I agree.

 

 

Of course not...but there is a time and place for everything.  Irsay has been preaching since before the manning release to keep things behind closed doors but he does not do the same.  Of course that's his right because he's the owner, but it also makes him a bit of a hypocrite. 

 

 

Agreed.  In fact it's not the entire tweet that I find distasteful, it's the last line, "I DEMAND better".  I have no issue with him tweeting about having to protect Luck better...that's obvious, of course they do.  I did notice that he did not include in his rant that Luck needs to do a better job of reading the blitz presnap and changing/adjusting the play as needed, but that's another story.  Still, the "I DEMAND better" to me just comes out wrong and I don't care for it.  He can say what he wants, he's the owner, but to me it is a poor way to motivate the team.

 

I don't see him being a hypocrite as you do

But I see what you are saying about the "I Demand"

 

IDK maybe it was a response to fan outrage this week, there's been a lot of that

 

And fans have been at each others throats about it as well.......telling each other what they can and cannot say

Lot's of that going on this week.

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How do we know that Irsay is not in Pagano and Grigson's office saying things?  If the guy is willing to tweet about his frustration and that things need to change to protect Luck there I have to imagine he does not see a problem with going and saying it to them as well.

 

To me this kind of stuff just needs handled within closed doors.  It goes for the owner, player, and coaches.  Let the coach give his platitudes at the conference and leave everything else behind closed doors.

 

There's no indication that Irsay is meddling in football decisions. Grigson and Pagano are very clearly in control of what happens with regard to personnel and on field coaching decisions. 

 

In contrast, Jerry Jones is very involved in all of those things, from personnel to scheme change to who calls the plays. And we know without a doubt that he is. You can't compare the two.

 

Saying this needs to be handled behind closed doors is one thing. But saying that the owner expressing his wishes to see a better performance on the field is "meddling" and comparing it to Jerry Jones is another. As the owner, I think Irsay should be engaged with his GM and his head coach. I don't have a problem with him popping his head into Pagano's office and saying "we have a lot riding on #12, let's do something to keep him from getting so beat up out there." If you think he shouldn't do that, then we just disagree on what an owner should and shouldn't do.

 

If you think it's okay for Irsay to give feedback to the coach and the GM, but don't think he should publicize it, that's a different argument. I'm more inclined to buy that, even though I don't so much mind anything that Irsay has said or tweeted about his expectations or the team's performance. 

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Agreed.  In fact it's not the entire tweet that I find distasteful, it's the last line, "I DEMAND better".  I have no issue with him tweeting about having to protect Luck better...that's obvious, of course they do.  I did notice that he did not include in his rant that Luck needs to do a better job of reading the blitz presnap and changing/adjusting the play as needed, but that's another story.  Still, the "I DEMAND better" to me just comes out wrong and I don't care for it.  He can say what he wants, he's the owner, but to me it is a poor way to motivate the team.

 

Like bav said, I think that's showmanship. I very much doubt that Irsay called Grigson and Pagano together and used the words "I DEMAND better." That's for the fans who want to see a better performance, and who appreciate knowing that the owner agrees.

 

Just like when he said his commanders got "an earful," I don't think he dressed them down, drill sergeant style. I think that's just for the cameras.

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I have no issue with him demanding better, but he can make those demands behind closed doors. ;)

Why is he singling some one out to embarrass them ?No I don't think so IMO its his team and hes not doing anything wrong.Can you imagine the outcry if he didn't say anything,and the fanbase thought he was ok with our overall play ?We need to be real  ,Players love playing for this franchise one of the big reasons is Irsay  :thmsup: Just sayin

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You know, this all kind of goes back to the 2012 draft.  I was very upset after that draft and I'll explain why.  It seemed to me that the 2012 draft was just another draft orchestrated by the Polians.  Bring in skill players for the QB and don't worry about anything else.  Granted there were several defensive players in that draft I'd have loved to have gotten, but there were also a lot of good offensive linemen as well.  If there's one thing we've learned from the past decade after watching Brady and Manning it's that the best of the best of QB's can work with average to even below average skill players and still be successful.  We saw Manning take the Colts into the playoffs with Blair White as a starting WR.  We saw Brady get the Pats into the playoffs a number of times with no name guys at the skill positions.

 

So what's the single most important thing, imo, that needs to be done to protect the QB?  Fill the offensive line!  Brady has for how many years had one of the best OL's in football protecting him.  That and his natural talent are the reasons he's able to be successful even with no name guys at the skill positions.  Manning is the same though he hasn't always had the best OL.  Both of them are so good at reading the defense pre-snap and making adjustments where necessary that they could still be successful behind a crap OL because they can get the ball out in under 2 seconds if need be.  

 

However a young QB, no matter how good he is, isn't going to be able to read NFL defenses in that way.  Not for a while at least.  So I didn't then and still don't understand the "we need to surround Luck with talented players to 'protect our investment'" argument.  What we needed to do, imo, was put a solid OL in front of Luck to protect our investment.  I like Fleener and Allen as much as anyone, but Cordy Glenn was still on the board when we took Fleener, and with a modest trade to move up 4 spots from our 3rd round pick we could have grabbed Kelechi Osemele.  We could have also used a future pick or maybe a couple of low round picks to still have been able to get Allen.

 

Sorry for the long rambling rant but imo the 2012 draft is where this all started. They chose to spend that entire draft, save for the picks of Chapman and Fugger and I would NOT have wanted to give up the Chapman pick for anything, to bring in a bunch of skill players, and then they brought in the best bargain guys they could find for the OL.  That just reeked of the Polian philosophy to me.  I would have much rather gotten as much talent as possible for the OL in that draft and then get bargain type skill players for that first year.  Again, don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of the skill players we got in that draft, but I'd easily give up any 2 or 3 of them for 2 or 3 of the very talented offensive linemen that were in that draft.

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There's no indication that Irsay is meddling in football decisions. Grigson and Pagano are very clearly in control of what happens with regard to personnel and on field coaching decisions. 

 

In contrast, Jerry Jones is very involved in all of those things, from personnel to scheme change to who calls the plays. And we know without a doubt that he is. You can't compare the two.

 

Saying this needs to be handled behind closed doors is one thing. But saying that the owner expressing his wishes to see a better performance on the field is "meddling" and comparing it to Jerry Jones is another. As the owner, I think Irsay should be engaged with his GM and his head coach. I don't have a problem with him popping his head into Pagano's office and saying "we have a lot riding on #12, let's do something to keep him from getting so beat up out there." If you think he shouldn't do that, then we just disagree on what an owner should and shouldn't do.

 

If you think it's okay for Irsay to give feedback to the coach and the GM, but don't think he should publicize it, that's a different argument. I'm more inclined to buy that, even though I don't so much mind anything that Irsay has said or tweeted about his expectations or the team's performance. 

 

I have no problem with Irsay giving his feedback to Pagano/Grigson as it is his team and his money that pays the salaries.  It is no different than my boss checking on how some of my projects are going or asking why a project had some hiccups.  My problem is the guy tweeting it all so the world can see.  Just keep it behind closed doors.  

 

I am sure they expect the players to keep their mouth shut about stuff and keep within the family.  The same should be expected from the boss as well.  Go see what is going on till your heart is content, but just do it in private not tweeting about it.

 

His tweets are basically calling everyone out from players to coaches. Why does this need to be tweeted?  Manning got ripped when he said we had protection problems. It is one thing to tweet "Ugly game, but win none the less" compared to "we gotta protect #12 better..and that includes more than just OL...it's backs,TE's,coaches on blitz pick ups..I DEMAND better" One is calling out everyone for not protecting Luck and the other calls nboody out.  Then he can be * behind closed doors as I would be if I saw my franchise's hope get beat up after having an entire offseason to correct an issue.

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Like bav said, I think that's showmanship. I very much doubt that Irsay called Grigson and Pagano together and used the words "I DEMAND better." That's for the fans who want to see a better performance, and who appreciate knowing that the owner agrees.

 

Just like when he said his commanders got "an earful," I don't think he dressed them down, drill sergeant style. I think that's just for the cameras.

 

True, but I didn't care for the "earful" tweet either.  I just think there were better ways he could have worded things that didn't come off negatively towards his coaching staff like the "I demand better" and "earful" comments did, imo.

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Like bav said, I think that's showmanship. I very much doubt that Irsay called Grigson and Pagano together and used the words "I DEMAND better." That's for the fans who want to see a better performance, and who appreciate knowing that the owner agrees.

 

Just like when he said his commanders got "an earful," I don't think he dressed them down, drill sergeant style. I think that's just for the cameras.

 

There is merit to Polian saying "if you listen to the fans too much, you will be sitting with them". The season is a marathon and knee jerk public statements to appease fans are not going to produce any different results than the same statements addressed to the coaches in private. That is my contention. :)

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 Again, don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of the skill players we got in that draft, but I'd easily give up any 2 or 3 of them for 2 or 3 of the very talented offensive linemen that were in that draft.

 

Lots of different viewpoints on that draft. I thought it was terrific, in terms of finding talent, but I also think maybe we could have drafted a lineman here or there.

 

Thing is, we didn't have very many skill players on the roster before that draft. Hardly any, really. Reggie Wayne, Donald Brown, and that's it. No one else. Brody Eldridge was the only tight end, and I don't think he made it to camp. We brought in Avery at receiver later. The only real issue would be not drafting Cordy Glenn.

 

Grigson at least addressed the offensive line in free agency. Satele didn't have a good year, but he was signed to a healthy contract. Not just a scrap heap pickup. McGlynn has been terrible, but the coaches see something in him (they must, right?) Polian would keep sending the same bums out there every year, up until 2011.

 

Also, speaking of 2011, we thought we got two starting tackles out of that draft. Remember, Ijalana got hurt in camp last year, but everyone expected him to be ready (maybe an unrealistic expectation, looking back). We hoped we had some players on the line. 

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Posted · Hidden by Superman, September 11, 2013 - inflammatory
Hidden by Superman, September 11, 2013 - inflammatory

I forgot all about that Robert Mathis tweet. Perfect example. People are just too used to the old era where we beat people before we even hit halftime. Times have changed

 

Yeah, those times are about 1000 miles west of Indy now....

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There is merit to Polian saying "if you listen to the fans too much, you will be sitting with them". The season is a marathon and knee jerk public statements to appease fans are not going to produce any different results than the same statements addressed to the coaches in private. That is my contention. :)

 

No, of course not. But they might help retain season ticket holders. The owner has to worry about that kind of stuff.

 

I don't think tweeting is the most effective method of promoting your franchise, but it is probably the most effective method of engaging with fans. It's low cost, high efficiency, and so long as it isn't analyzed to death, there's really no downside to it.

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To me this kind of stuff just needs handled within closed doors.  It goes for the owner, player, and coaches.  Let the coach give his platitudes at the conference and leave everything else behind closed doors.

 

I don't really understand your line of thought here. Pagano and Reggie Wayne said pretty much the exact same thing in the media this week prior to Irsay tweeting it. Do you think Pags/RW should have not said protection was an issue? All three of them are saying the same thing and Irsay let his coach and player bring it up before he did--to me, if anything, this shows coordinated thought, messaging, and a community/team culture. No individuals players or units were called out by name. The blitz issue is as much on Pep and Luck as it is on the O-line.

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No, of course not. But they might help retain season ticket holders. The owner has to worry about that kind of stuff.

 

I don't think tweeting is the most effective method of promoting your franchise, but it is probably the most effective method of engaging with fans. It's low cost, high efficiency, and so long as it isn't analyzed to death, there's really no downside to it.

I believe tweets are soley for fanbase.He had already addressed everyone  else privately before hand.This owner is not lacking for intelligence IMO

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I don't really understand your line of thought here. Pagano and Reggie Wayne said pretty much the exact same thing in the media this week prior to Irsay tweeting it. Do you think Pags/RW should have not said protection was an issue? All three of them are saying the same thing and Irsay let his coach and player bring it up before he did--to me, if anything, this shows coordinated thought, messaging, and a community/team culture. No individuals players or units were called out by name. The blitz issue is as much on Pep and Luck as it is on the O-line.

Exactly  :disco:

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I have no problem with Irsay giving his feedback to Pagano/Grigson as it is his team and his money that pays the salaries.  It is no different than my boss checking on how some of my projects are going or asking why a project had some hiccups.  My problem is the guy tweeting it all so the world can see.  Just keep it behind closed doors.  

 

I am sure they expect the players to keep their mouth shut about stuff and keep within the family.  The same should be expected from the boss as well.  Go see what is going on till your heart is content, but just do it in private not tweeting about it.

 

His tweets are basically calling everyone out from players to coaches. Why does this need to be tweeted?  Manning got ripped when he said we had protection problems. It is one thing to tweet "Ugly game, but win none the less" compared to "we gotta protect #12 better..and that includes more than just OL...it's backs,TE's,coaches on blitz pick ups..I DEMAND better" One is calling out everyone for not protecting Luck and the other calls nboody out.  Then he can be ticked behind closed doors as I would be if I saw my franchise's hope get beat up after having an entire offseason to correct an issue.

 

So what if the radio broadcast team interviewed Irsay during the game on Sunday, and he said "I love that we won, and we only gave up 17 points, but I think we can play better, and I expressed that to the guys in charge in no uncertain terms, because our fans deserve a championship caliber product"? 

 

I think a lot of people don't like the way Irsay tweets, and others just despise everything about Twitter to begin with. A lot of this backlash is about the medium Irsay used to express himself, not the action or the content. 

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Lots of different viewpoints on that draft. I thought it was terrific, in terms of finding talent, but I also think maybe we could have drafted a lineman here or there.

 

Thing is, we didn't have very many skill players on the roster before that draft. Hardly any, really. Reggie Wayne, Donald Brown, and that's it. No one else. Brody Eldridge was the only tight end, and I don't think he made it to camp. We brought in Avery at receiver later. The only real issue would be not drafting Cordy Glenn.

 

Grigson at least addressed the offensive line in free agency. Satele didn't have a good year, but he was signed to a healthy contract. Not just a scrap heap pickup. McGlynn has been terrible, but the coaches see something in him (they must, right?) Polian would keep sending the same bums out there every year, up until 2011.

 

Also, speaking of 2011, we thought we got two starting tackles out of that draft. Remember, Ijalana got hurt in camp last year, but everyone expected him to be ready (maybe an unrealistic expectation, looking back). We hoped we had some players on the line. 

 

I agree for the most part.  However, as much as I like Hilton, Allen and Fleener, I would gladly trade any 2 of them for Glenn and Osemele.  It just seemed to me that they kept preaching "build the trenches first" but then in the draft that all went out the window.  I realize we were very short on skill players, but there are always skill players in FA.  I'd have rather put the emphasis in 2012 both FA and draft on the OL and then fill the rest with castoffs at skill positions if we had to just to get through that year.  Then they could have started in 2013 and on building up skill players as well.  

 

Like you said, lots of different opinions and lots of different paths they could have taken.  

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No, of course not. But they might help retain season ticket holders. The owner has to worry about that kind of stuff.

 

I don't think tweeting is the most effective method of promoting your franchise, but it is probably the most effective method of engaging with fans. It's low cost, high efficiency, and so long as it isn't analyzed to death, there's really no downside to it.

 

After last season, I really doubt Irsay needs to worry about style points or rectifying things. Fans were up in arms after the 375 yards rushing game, did Irsay tweet a word? Nope, I don't think so.

 

Luck has given hope with a playoff team in his rookie season, the least Irsay can do is sit back and let it play it out. A win is a win, no style points in the NFL. He does not need to worry about retaining season ticket holders this early in a season coming off a playoff season and the tweets just reflect a man who is getting too emotionally attached to social medium while engaging with fans. Maybe he is in pain and grouchy, and lets it out on twitter, that is definitely a possibility. :)

 

His tweets come off as a bit condescending and not so constructive, IMO. It is almost like a Brad Wells like page hit mongering type at Stampede Blue :).

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So what if the radio broadcast team interviewed Irsay during the game on Sunday, and he said "I love that we won, and we only gave up 17 points, but I think we can play better, and I expressed that to the guys in charge in no uncertain terms, because our fans deserve a championship caliber product"?

 

I think a lot of people don't like the way Irsay tweets, and others just despise everything about Twitter to begin with. A lot of this backlash is about the medium Irsay used to express himself, not the action or the content. 

 

If that would have been his tweet, I would have had zero issue with it. :)

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I agree for the most part.  However, as much as I like Hilton, Allen and Fleener, I would gladly trade any 2 of them for Glenn and Osemele.  It just seemed to me that they kept preaching "build the trenches first" but then in the draft that all went out the window.  I realize we were very short on skill players, but there are always skill players in FA.  I'd have rather put the emphasis in 2012 both FA and draft on the OL and then fill the rest with castoffs at skill positions if we had to just to get through that year.  Then they could have started in 2013 and on building up skill players as well.  

 

Like you said, lots of different opinions and lots of different paths they could have taken.  

 

I think Grigson could have done one single thing differently, and built a significantly better line in 2012 -- release Dwight Freeney. Draft just the same, but free up $14m in cap space, and sign a guard and maybe a tackle (probably a corner, while we're at it), and then we hit every position of need via the draft and free agency.

 

Only one thing I think he messed up on, and that's it.

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I have no problem with Irsay giving his feedback to Pagano/Grigson as it is his team and his money that pays the salaries.  It is no different than my boss checking on how some of my projects are going or asking why a project had some hiccups.  My problem is the guy tweeting it all so the world can see.  Just keep it behind closed doors.  

 

Unless your project at work is broadcast on a national television network and then picked up by every media outlet in the country, it's actually a lot different.

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After last season, I really doubt Irsay needs to worry about style points or rectifying things. Fans were up in arms after the 375 yards rushing game, did Irsay tweet a word? Nope, I don't think so.

 

Luck has given hope with a playoff team in his rookie season, the least Irsay can do is sit back and let it play it out. A win is a win, no style points in the NFL. He does not need to worry about retaining season ticket holders this early in a season coming off a playoff season and the tweets just reflect a man who is getting too emotionally attached to social medium while engaging with fans. Maybe he is in pain and grouchy, and lets it out on twitter, that is definitely a possibility. :)

 

His tweets come off as a bit condescending and not so constructive, IMO. It is almost like a Brad Wells like page hit mongering type at Stampede Blue :).

 

Twitter didn't exist in 2006.

 

And Bill Polian and Tony Dungy were still around. I don't think Irsay was anywhere near as vocal as he's been the last two years, given that he had two well respected vets running the show. As much as we all like Grigson and Pagano, they have nowhere near the pedigree Polian and Dungy did. 

 

Also, Irsay just committed $140m in free agency. The fans expect a better product. He said we'd get a better product. Now he's saying "I still expect better, don't think this is what I had in mind." 

 

I couldn't disagree more with the Brad Wells comment. I don't know if you've been on that site in the past couple of days, but he had an article calling out Pagano for being a poor coach the other day. Irsay's tweet reads like the lyrics to a love song in comparison with any so-called criticism from Brad Wells.

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