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Werner will adjust. i just don't know... i dislike that we may have to spend the next decade hearing american announcers say Verner... It's like we know some one is from another country so we (our culture)  feels the need to say the persons name as if we are from the country too lol. if we are gonna say one name that way why not say them all that way. "touchdown!!! Reggie Vayne"... Just sayin

It's how he says his name that's why.  If he was from here it would be Werner but he's not.  You pronounce what his name is, it's why announcers spent forever trying to figure out if it's BethA or Bethuh because they wanted to say what his name IS not how they would say it. 

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It's how he says his name that's why.  If he was from here it would be Werner but he's not.  You pronounce what his name is, it's why announcers spent forever trying to figure out if it's BethA or Bethuh because they wanted to say what his name IS not how they would say it. 

Would you really be offended if German media pronounced it Andrev Vluck? Would you really?

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Would you really be offended if German media pronounced it Andrev Vluck? Would you really?

No and I am not offended when American's say it Werner I am just answering why they say Verner.  They want to get it right, that has nothing to do with being offended, it has to do with professionals wanting to do their job right. 

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No and I am not offended when American's say it Werner I am just answering why they say Verner.  They want to get it right, that has nothing to do with being offended, it has to do with professionals wanting to do their job right. 

I see. Fair enough. 

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It's how he says his name that's why.  If he was from here it would be Werner but he's not.  You pronounce what his name is, it's why announcers spent forever trying to figure out if it's BethA or Bethuh because they wanted to say what his name IS not how they would say it. 

Ahh, i know why, it was never in question, like i said in all my typing that post i did not  make it very clear i was kidding. I really don't mind how they say anyones name. just tired of the Werner isn't doing this and that talk figured what else can be complained about a guy playing his first NFL game. Lets be real i dated a dark haired  big eyed beautiful woman that spoke to me with her German accent before and trust me... the last thing i was complaining about was how she pronounced her W.

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Ahh, i know why, it was never in question, like i said in all my typing that post i did not  make it very clear i was kidding. I really don't mind how they say anyones name. just tired of the Werner isn't doing this and that talk figured what else can be complained about a guy playing his first NFL game. Lets be real i dated a dark haired  big eyed beautiful woman that spoke to me with her German accent before and trust me... the last thing i was complaining about was how she pronounced her W.

Wagina?

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Werner plays vs Oakland

 

1.Pass Rush from ROLB (No Pressure)

2.Pass Rush from LOLB (No Pressure)

3.Read run from LOLB position losing containment on Pryor(fail), Gain of 5 yards on play

4.Pass Rush from LE positon 4 point stance no pressure

5.Pass Rush from ROLB (No Pressure)

6.He appeared to want to pass rush first trying to dip and go around the RT's outside but Pryor stepped up, Werner peeled back and held contain to his side(success), Nice show of discipline on Werner in my opinion 8:50 2nd Quarter (Pryors longest run of day 29 yards, Thats on Franklin in my opinion. he left a gaping hole

7.Run Contain (Ball not run at his side but he did hold contain, Success)

8.Read run on the play fake bit on it from LOLB position, Lost contain (fail) 7:31 2nd Quarter

9.Pass Rush from LE spot.....appeared to get held around the neck if you ask me (no pressure)

10.Pass rush from RE spot 4 point stance (No Pressure) 1:04 left 2nd Quarter

11.Run Contain, Pryor ran at him, Werner shed the block by the TE, slowed Pryor down to make him spin, Mathis on tackle from behind.......Success.....But have to wrap up, He diagnosed the play well

12.Pass Rush (No Pressure)

13.Werner dropped back in pass coverage on 3rd and 13 with :23 seconds to go in 2nd quarter....Success, kept on his man although was not thrown at

14.LE looked to be defending against any run that came up his end .......Walden lost containment

15.Began to show rush from interior Lineback position before peeling back and QB spy (success)

16.Run contain :47 seconds to go on 3rd quarter from LOLB Success

17.Pass Rush from RE position 4 point stance no pressure

18.Pass rush 15:00 to go in 4th Quarter 4 point stance (No pressure)

19.12:43 4th Quarter from 2 point stance inside the B Gap, Redding broke his containment  and pass rushed-Fail

20.Pass Rush (No Pressure)

21.Delay of game Oakland

22.4 point stance from RE spot, Appeared to have B Gap responsibility on inside run forcing Mcfadden to bounce it out where Landry came in to stuff the run on outside

23.Pass Rush (No Pressure, Never had a chance cause the wr got inside so fast for the TD) 11:09 4TH Quarter

24.3rd down and 1 to go pass rush (no pressure) 4:15 to go

25.2:08 left in 4th Quarter 3rd down and 9 to go Werner pass rush fromLE (No pressure)

26.4th down and 9 to go, Pass Rush (No pressure)

27.1st and Goal Pass Rush (No Pressure)

28.pass rush (No Pressure)

29.Pass Rush (No Pressure) Bethea with Int to end the game

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Is it? 

 

Why aren't Caucasian Americans allowed to pronounce in our own way without being ignorant? 

 

Would you call a German "ignorant" for pronouncing Willy Williams as Villy Villiams? Would you get mad if they refused to pronounce it correctly? Vould they be ignorant? 

 

"MY NAMES WILLY NOT VILLY!"

 

"I'm sorrvy. I cannot pronounce your double vue very vell."

 

"Man you ignorant."

 

Ahhhh...the Caucasian American enjoys yet another double standard. I'll tell ya what; When I see a "V" on his jersey, then I'll call him Verner. This is American football, played in America. 

 

I wouldn't call it ignorant, I would call it arrogant.  

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my only issue with Werner is that the last drive, he was asked only to rush the qb. I saw him quit on 1 play and on 2 different plays he just ran into the DT and looked lost. I'll be patient cause its his first game ever, but I didnt like that last series at all.

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Werner plays vs Oakland

 

1.Pass Rush from ROLB (No Pressure)

2.Pass Rush from LOLB (No Pressure)

3.Read run from LOLB position losing containment on Pryor(fail), Gain of 5 yards on play

4.Pass Rush from LE positon 4 point stance no pressure

5.Pass Rush from ROLB (No Pressure)

6.He appeared to want to pass rush first trying to dip and go around the RT's outside but Pryor stepped up, Werner peeled back and held contain to his side(success), Nice show of discipline on Werner in my opinion 8:50 2nd Quarter (Pryors longest run of day 29 yards, Thats on Franklin in my opinion. he left a gaping hole

7.Run Contain (Ball not run at his side but he did hold contain, Success)

8.Read run on the play fake bit on it from LOLB position, Lost contain (fail) 7:31 2nd Quarter

9.Pass Rush from LE spot.....appeared to get held around the neck if you ask me (no pressure)

10.Pass rush from RE spot 4 point stance (No Pressure) 1:04 left 2nd Quarter

11.Run Contain, Pryor ran at him, Werner shed the block by the TE, slowed Pryor down to make him spin, Mathis on tackle from behind.......Success.....But have to wrap up, He diagnosed the play well

12.Pass Rush (No Pressure)

13.Werner dropped back in pass coverage on 3rd and 13 with :23 seconds to go in 2nd quarter....Success, kept on his man although was not thrown at

14.LE looked to be defending against any run that came up his end .......Walden lost containment

15.Began to show rush from interior Lineback position before peeling back and QB spy (success)

16.Run contain :47 seconds to go on 3rd quarter from LOLB Success

17.Pass Rush from RE position 4 point stance no pressure

18.Pass rush 15:00 to go in 4th Quarter 4 point stance (No pressure)

19.12:43 4th Quarter from 2 point stance inside the B Gap, Redding broke his containment  and pass rushed-Fail

20.Pass Rush (No Pressure)

21.Delay of game Oakland

22.4 point stance from RE spot, Appeared to have B Gap responsibility on inside run forcing Mcfadden to bounce it out where Landry came in to stuff the run on outside

23.Pass Rush (No Pressure, Never had a chance cause the wr got inside so fast for the TD) 11:09 4TH Quarter

24.3rd down and 1 to go pass rush (no pressure) 4:15 to go

25.2:08 left in 4th Quarter 3rd down and 9 to go Werner pass rush fromLE (No pressure)

26.4th down and 9 to go, Pass Rush (No pressure)

27.1st and Goal Pass Rush (No Pressure)

28.pass rush (No Pressure)

29.Pass Rush (No Pressure) Bethea with Int to end the game

How many times was he held and never got a flag? I cant rewatch  or I would post it myself. There was holding all over yesterday and only a flag or two. Luck was face masked and no flag. Lot of poor officiating.  Lot more of poor playing too. But 1-0 tied for first in the division with Tennessee..........

 

And the sky didnt fall yesterday!!! I looked at the board and all the chicken little post were embarrassing.

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my only issue with Werner is that the last drive, he was asked only to rush the qb. I saw him quit on 1 play and on 2 different plays he just ran into the DT and looked lost. I'll be patient cause its his first game ever, but I didnt like that last series at all.

 

I don't think he was asked to "rush" the QB on that drive but rather to Spy the QB.  

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Werner plays vs Oakland

 

1.Pass Rush from ROLB (No Pressure)

2.Pass Rush from LOLB (No Pressure)

3.Read run from LOLB position losing containment on Pryor(fail), Gain of 5 yards on play

4.Pass Rush from LE positon 4 point stance no pressure

5.Pass Rush from ROLB (No Pressure)

6.He appeared to want to pass rush first trying to dip and go around the RT's outside but Pryor stepped up, Werner peeled back and held contain to his side(success), Nice show of discipline on Werner in my opinion 8:50 2nd Quarter (Pryors longest run of day 29 yards, Thats on Franklin in my opinion. he left a gaping hole

7.Run Contain (Ball not run at his side but he did hold contain, Success)

8.Read run on the play fake bit on it from LOLB position, Lost contain (fail) 7:31 2nd Quarter

9.Pass Rush from LE spot.....appeared to get held around the neck if you ask me (no pressure)

10.Pass rush from RE spot 4 point stance (No Pressure) 1:04 left 2nd Quarter

11.Run Contain, Pryor ran at him, Werner shed the block by the TE, slowed Pryor down to make him spin, Mathis on tackle from behind.......Success.....But have to wrap up, He diagnosed the play well

12.Pass Rush (No Pressure)

13.Werner dropped back in pass coverage on 3rd and 13 with :23 seconds to go in 2nd quarter....Success, kept on his man although was not thrown at

14.LE looked to be defending against any run that came up his end .......Walden lost containment

15.Began to show rush from interior Lineback position before peeling back and QB spy (success)

16.Run contain :47 seconds to go on 3rd quarter from LOLB Success

17.Pass Rush from RE position 4 point stance no pressure

18.Pass rush 15:00 to go in 4th Quarter 4 point stance (No pressure)

19.12:43 4th Quarter from 2 point stance inside the B Gap, Redding broke his containment  and pass rushed-Fail

20.Pass Rush (No Pressure)

21.Delay of game Oakland

22.4 point stance from RE spot, Appeared to have B Gap responsibility on inside run forcing Mcfadden to bounce it out where Landry came in to stuff the run on outside

23.Pass Rush (No Pressure, Never had a chance cause the wr got inside so fast for the TD) 11:09 4TH Quarter

24.3rd down and 1 to go pass rush (no pressure) 4:15 to go

25.2:08 left in 4th Quarter 3rd down and 9 to go Werner pass rush fromLE (No pressure)

26.4th down and 9 to go, Pass Rush (No pressure)

27.1st and Goal Pass Rush (No Pressure)

28.pass rush (No Pressure)

29.Pass Rush (No Pressure) Bethea with Int to end the game

 

 

Do you think Pagano may have over done it a bit with all that mini camp "gushing" over him ? For sure the jury's not out yet , but I would be very happy if he would have showed just a bit more pass rush. Getting a bit off topic.... not a great start for this draft class. Someone without rose colored glasses could say that Thornton is the only player showing legitimate promise. I would think that Holmes , Hughes and Werner all will out not "fizzle out " but we shall see.

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my only issue with Werner is that the last drive, he was asked only to rush the qb. I saw him quit on 1 play and on 2 different plays he just ran into the DT and looked lost. I'll be patient cause its his first game ever, but I didnt like that last series at all.

Effort is my main issue with him as well

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Werner is built in the mold of Jarrett Johnson and Paul Krueger. Both Johnson and Krueger took a few years to master SSOLB. Werner has not played American football as long as the other 2 so maybe we should be more patient with him. We seem to expect more from 1st round picks but I believe in time he will start and be just as effective as Johnson and Krueger.

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Do you think Pagano may have over done it a bit with all that mini camp "gushing" over him ? For sure the jury's not out yet , but I would be very happy if he would have showed just a bit more pass rush. Getting a bit off topic.... not a great start for this draft class. Someone without rose colored glasses could say that Thornton is the only player showing legitimate promise. I would think that Holmes , Hughes and Werner all will out not "fizzle out " but we shall see.

Coaches tend to do that with a player or a pick to protect the player. But he does show some flashes (like on play 11), I think he is struggling with play recognition and technique more then anything, I thought it might be a strength issue as well but Im not sure about that part. He does have the ability to do what the coaches are asking him to do on the field, That Im not concerned about. He just to keep technique and process run/pass quicker. Run contain wise I think he did well for the most part vs the Raiders

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I'm not ready to give up on Werner,its just to soon, it was his first NFL game and he is learning a new position, even though he looked a lot like Jerry Hughes yesterday, it was just his first game and I do believe he will get better. What does concern me is his effort, he does not hustle and play with a sense of urgency. He is a smart guy and I have no doubt that he will learn how to read and react better as he gets more playing time. His lack of hustle really concerns me, especially when he has been sucked in on the option, if you have made the wrong read and not set the edge you should hustle with everything you've got to try to run down the ballcarrier and make up for the mistake you just made. Werner once he has been beaten on a play or the play is away from him, he just jogs toward the ballcarrier. There were plays yesterday where if he had hustled he could have made or been in on the tackle, but he just jogs up the field with no sense of urgency. This type of play will so up when watching film and hopefully the coaches can insill in him a sense of urgency to hustle to the the ball and never give up on a play.I can understand that he's a rookie learning a new position and might not make the right read, but his lack of hustle and taking plays off is inexcusable.

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Werner plays vs Oakland

 

1.Pass Rush from ROLB (No Pressure)

2.Pass Rush from LOLB (No Pressure)

3.Read run from LOLB position losing containment on Pryor(fail), Gain of 5 yards on play

4.Pass Rush from LE positon 4 point stance no pressure

5.Pass Rush from ROLB (No Pressure)

6.He appeared to want to pass rush first trying to dip and go around the RT's outside but Pryor stepped up, Werner peeled back and held contain to his side(success), Nice show of discipline on Werner in my opinion 8:50 2nd Quarter (Pryors longest run of day 29 yards, Thats on Franklin in my opinion. he left a gaping hole

7.Run Contain (Ball not run at his side but he did hold contain, Success)

8.Read run on the play fake bit on it from LOLB position, Lost contain (fail) 7:31 2nd Quarter

9.Pass Rush from LE spot.....appeared to get held around the neck if you ask me (no pressure)

10.Pass rush from RE spot 4 point stance (No Pressure) 1:04 left 2nd Quarter

11.Run Contain, Pryor ran at him, Werner shed the block by the TE, slowed Pryor down to make him spin, Mathis on tackle from behind.......Success.....But have to wrap up, He diagnosed the play well

12.Pass Rush (No Pressure)

13.Werner dropped back in pass coverage on 3rd and 13 with :23 seconds to go in 2nd quarter....Success, kept on his man although was not thrown at

14.LE looked to be defending against any run that came up his end .......Walden lost containment

15.Began to show rush from interior Lineback position before peeling back and QB spy (success)

16.Run contain :47 seconds to go on 3rd quarter from LOLB Success

17.Pass Rush from RE position 4 point stance no pressure

18.Pass rush 15:00 to go in 4th Quarter 4 point stance (No pressure)

19.12:43 4th Quarter from 2 point stance inside the B Gap, Redding broke his containment  and pass rushed-Fail

20.Pass Rush (No Pressure)

21.Delay of game Oakland

22.4 point stance from RE spot, Appeared to have B Gap responsibility on inside run forcing Mcfadden to bounce it out where Landry came in to stuff the run on outside

23.Pass Rush (No Pressure, Never had a chance cause the wr got inside so fast for the TD) 11:09 4TH Quarter

24.3rd down and 1 to go pass rush (no pressure) 4:15 to go

25.2:08 left in 4th Quarter 3rd down and 9 to go Werner pass rush fromLE (No pressure)

26.4th down and 9 to go, Pass Rush (No pressure)

27.1st and Goal Pass Rush (No Pressure)

28.pass rush (No Pressure)

29.Pass Rush (No Pressure) Bethea with Int to end the game

Lot's of Pass Rush Fail,   Overall Grade D+

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The sheer notion that people are contemplating writing off a rookie after their first game, speaks to the sheer insanity of the Internet.

 

 

I hope that I didn't come across that way. Just wishing that this draft class , other than Thornton would be showing a tad more . So far we have just a PS player from the 2 picks in the 7th and 1 pick in the 6th. Holmes has continued to be injury prone , so we have a zero read on him. Werner and Hughes have yet to flash a whole lot . Does that mean we "wiffed" the whole draft other than Thornton ? Of coarse not , but some rookies do show more than these guys while some take more time to develop.

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Coaches tend to do that with a player or a pick to protect the player. But he does show some flashes (like on play 11), I think he is struggling with play recognition and technique more then anything, I thought it might be a strength issue as well but Im not sure about that part. He does have the ability to do what the coaches are asking him to do on the field, That Im not concerned about. He just to keep technique and process run/pass quicker. Run contain wise I think he did well for the most part vs the Raiders

 

 

I fail to understand how raving about a rookie would do anything but raise expectations above his probable performance. I would think that would hurt a rookie more than help or "protect" him. 

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I hope that I didn't come across that way. Just wishing that this draft class , other than Thornton would be showing a tad more . So far we have just a PS player from the 2 picks in the 7th and 1 pick in the 6th. Holmes has continued to be injury prone , so we have a zero read on him. Werner and Hughes have yet to flash a whole lot . Does that mean we "wiffed" the whole draft other than Thornton ? Of coarse not , but some rookies do show more than these guys while some take more time to develop.

Naw, I wasn't referencing you in any way.

Just this overriding notion that is dissemination, that rookies and second year players need to play All-Pro right away or they're worthless.

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I hope that I didn't come across that way. Just wishing that this draft class , other than Thornton would be showing a tad more . So far we have just a PS player from the 2 picks in the 7th and 1 pick in the 6th. Holmes has continued to be injury prone , so we have a zero read on him. Werner and Hughes have yet to flash a whole lot . Does that mean we "wiffed" the whole draft other than Thornton ? Of coarse not , but some rookies do show more than these guys while some take more time to develop.

Well ....Thornton/Hughes/Holmes were all mid round picks for a reason. They all lacked something, With Holmes it was a bit of strength and his technique was inconsistent. Thornton has the strength but the technique is inconsistent, Add that to him getting injured and missing so much time and ya have a player that has to build up his stamina to go along with technique (he was far better then Mcglynn but it was a bit overstated by some how good he did although I liked what I saw for the most part). with Hughes, I have no idea what they saw to be honest watching him

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Well ....Thornton/Hughes/Holmes were all mid round picks for a reason. They all lacked something, With Holmes it was a bit of strength and his technique was inconsistent. Thornton has the strength but the technique is inconsistent, Add that to him getting injured and missing so much time and ya have a player that has to build up his stamina to go along with technique (he was far better then Mcglynn but it was a bit overstated by some how good he did although I liked what I saw for the most part). with Hughes, I have no idea what they saw to be honest watching him

 

 

Agree , that with no second rounder . we're not talking about guy's looking like "busts." I get a kick out of people that think 3rd -4th and 5th rounders are "busts" if they don't make it.  Odds are that your picks 4th round and later are going to be back ups or cut.

 

Just that when you look at this class as a whole , it looks as if it has the "potential" to be a bad draft. Pretty much the last 3 picks are gone and other than Thornton "flashing " a bit we haven't seen anything to get excited about. However what you elude to is true. At least 3 of these players didn't figure to help right away and they are developemental guys. Little different than last year's draft with the first 4 picks being capable of contributing right away.

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Werner will adjust. i just don't know... i dislike that we may have to spend the next decade hearing american announcers say Verner... It's like we know some one is from another country so we (our culture) feels the need to say the persons name as if we are from the country too lol. if we are gonna say one name that way why not say them all that way. "touchdown!!! Reggie Vayne"... Just sayin

should we call Julio Jones, Joolio Jones?

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Werner is built in the mold of Jarrett Johnson and Paul Krueger. Both Johnson and Krueger took a few years to master SSOLB. Werner has not played American football as long as the other 2 so maybe we should be more patient with him. We seem to expect more from 1st round picks but I believe in time he will start and be just as effective as Johnson and Krueger.

Other than being white,I don't get the Jarret Johnson comparison

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Other than being white,I don't get the Jarret Johnson comparison

You did not mention Krueger as being white. I was not talking about skin complexion. I was talking about size, speed, and agility. All three are similar players. Johnson played DT and had a position switch to LB. Krueger played DE like Werner and made the position switch. Neither Krueger or Johnson started their first couple of years but eventually contributed as starters on dominant defenses.

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Same. I was just being ridiculous because.....well I'm ridiculous. Verner...Werner.....I just want the kid to show. I didn't care much for the pick in the first place. 

 

ah gotcha. sometimes it's hard to tell :)

 

I was very excited about the pick.  I saw a lot of Werner at FSU and I think he has a ton of potential.  I honestly think he's just trying to 1) get used to the speed difference of the NFL game vs. college game and 2) trying to digest everything that he's learned.  They've thrown a lot at him in a short period of time, and then add to that his first real NFL game was against a QB that, let's face it, the entire team and coaching staff underrated.  They all had difficulty with Pryor's speed.  

 

I do think the light will switch on and once it does I think he will be a huge asset to our defense. :)

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I'm going to give him the benefit of doubt, being that he is a rookie.  I wasn't that excited when we drafted him being that he was a 4/3 end.

I thought it was another case of square peg, round hole.    Being that his 1st NFL game was against a QB, whose 1st instinct is to run instead of passing . It is slightly difficult for me to give a fair opinion on him.   I think his biggest weakness (besides being a rook) is that he seems to hesitate and overanalyze instead of going on instinct.

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ah gotcha. sometimes it's hard to tell :)

 

I was very excited about the pick.  I saw a lot of Werner at FSU and I think he has a ton of potential.  I honestly think he's just trying to 1) get used to the speed difference of the NFL game vs. college game and 2) trying to digest everything that he's learned.  They've thrown a lot at him in a short period of time, and then add to that his first real NFL game was against a QB that, let's face it, the entire team and coaching staff underrated.  They all had difficulty with Pryor's speed.  

 

I do think the light will switch on and once it does I think he will be a huge asset to our defense. :)

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but most Rookie Pass Rushers are chucked in with one job and that's to rush the passer until they adjust to the NFL and can expand their role. It seems like Werner has had to take on more and it's causing him some hesitation as he's thinking rather than just doing. 

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