OMG McGlynn

[GoColts8818]

Then why give them numbers? If #3 comes before #2 in terms of impact, then what are we doing?

 

It is mostly about the coaches managing the rotation and calling plays, but I don't think the coaches label their receivers by numbers in this manner. It just doesn't make sense.

 

If you want to label them, call DHB the X receiver. That's his role, and that's about all he's really capable of, I think. Reggie would be the Z, the possession guy, with high target numbers, who rarely leaves the field. I think we're going to use Hilton in both of those roles, plus he'll be the primary guy getting slot work (although I could see us using DHB and Hilton on the outside, with Reggie in the slot).

 

But it doesn't really make sense to label them #1, #2, and #3 if those numbers aren't really related to what's happening on the field.

maybe I over simplify it but I just call them outside and slot guys and clearly slot guys can play outside as well as the slot. 

[HtownColt]

TY Hilton has potential to be a #1 wr. With his speed alone, he can be just as good if not better than Mike Wallace. Basically if this organization doesnt view him as a potential dominant WR, another team will and pay him accordingly. With the rules now, every db on him is a mismatch. You cant touch him.

Whenever there is only 2wrs on the field, TY should be one of the 2 wrs.

How many snaps did TY play compared to DHB today?

[GoodLuck]

Just realized this really wasnt the topic. But Yes, McGlynn is really horrible

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Just realized this really wasnt the topic. But Yes, McGlynn is really horrible

... McGlynn can't even keep his own thread on topic.

[GoColts8818]

... McGlynn can't even keep his own thread on topic.

What do you expect he had to "block" DHB and TY from coming by

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Just realized this really wasnt the topic. But Yes, McGlynn is really horrible

Cheers mate...it's just nice to be able to debate what to do with Hilton, cause we all agree this kid is GOOD!

[Superman]

Absolutely brilliant...almost word for word my exact view on the subject.  I'm not arguing if Hilton is worthy on number 2 status or even number one, I'm saying any team in the league would use him all over the field because that is the player he is.  And it's not all over the field in terms of where he lines up but where he can take advantage of the coverage teams use on him.  No team will be able to put their best corner on Hilton, because if they do, DHB and Wayne will have a field day.

 

So if the bolded is how you define a #3, then that would apply to Reggie last season, because we used him all over the field. Not only did he line up everywhere, he also ran every route on the tree (as he has since his third year in the league). 

[Superman]

maybe I over simplify it but I just call them outside and slot guys and clearly slot guys can play outside as well as the slot.

 

Not all of them. Some of them might as well come off the field if you ask them to run their routes from the outside.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

So if the bolded is how you define a #3, then that would apply to Reggie last season, because we used him all over the field. Not only did he line up everywhere, he also ran every route on the tree (as he has since his third year in the league). 

I don't define him as a #3.  I define him as the guy you try to get away from the top two CB's and wreak havoc.  I know that sounds like the same thing but I try to visualize what the defense will do to cover a guy.  Much like with Wayne last year, like you said, you try to get him matched up on someone that is #3 on the defense so to speak.  He could be your #1 target all year long but the defense has to react to what the offense is doing.  And if they rotate to cover Ty with more guys or a better guy it frees up your other players to favorable matchups.  My whole point is...say Hilton is the #1 guy on the roster.  But we don't want the defense to know he's the #1 guy.  Does that make any sense?

[Superman]

I don't define him as a #3.  I define him as the guy you try to get away from the top two CB's and wreak havoc.  I know that sounds like the same thing but I try to visualize what the defense will do to cover a guy.  Much like with Wayne last year, like you said, you try to get him matched up on someone that is #3 on the defense so to speak.  He could be your #1 target all year long but the defense has to react to what the offense is doing.  And if they rotate to cover Ty with more guys or a better guy it frees up your other players to favorable matchups.  My whole point is...say Hilton is the #1 guy on the roster.  But we don't want the defense to know he's the #1 guy.  Does that make any sense?

 

More to the point, we want the defense to be preoccupied with the other receiving threats on the roster, leaving Hilton with a favorable matchup. Yeah, absolutely.

 

I just disagree with the numbering convention, and the "slot receiver" designation. 

[HtownColt]

I love the 3wr sets with him im the slot. I have no issue with that. Also think TY can go outside and Reggie inside in that formation. Especially with Allen out. But again, if they're in a 2 wr formation, imo TY should be the 2nd wr.

Just counted the snaps that Luck was in at QB:

I have DHB with 15 snaps and TY with 12. Don't understand why you are so caught up in a #2 #3 WR label, they see the field almost the same

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

More to the point, we want the defense to be preoccupied with the other receiving threats on the roster, leaving Hilton with a favorable matchup. Yeah, absolutely.

 

I just disagree with the numbering convention, and the "slot receiver" designation. 

I do too...that was the whole point I was trying to convey.

[GoColts8818]

Not all of them. Some of them might as well come off the field if you ask them to run their routes from the outside.

lol I was trying to cover myself from someone going "But TY can do both" and you did the reverse no me. Correct some slot guys are just slot guys Stokley with the Colts is a good example of one.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

lol I was trying to cover myself from someone going "But TY can do both" and you did the reverse no me. Correct some slot guys are just slot guys Stokley with the Colts is a good example of one.

not to add to the debate but...Marques Colston is a big target, and most people would consider him a number 1 receiver, but he runs primarily out the slot.  So he's on the other end of what a slot receiver is.

[Superman]

not to add to the debate but...Marques Colston is a big target, and most people would consider him a number 1 receiver, but he runs primarily out the slot.  So he's on the other end of what a slot receiver is.

 

Good example. I've always considered Colston as one of those guys who is difficult to define. His first season, a lot of websites listed him as a tight end, which aggravated a lot of fantasy leagues. But it highlights the different ways he's been used throughout his career.

 

He's different for different reasons than TY, but the effect is still the same, I think. Can't put guys like that in a box, and say "he's a [so-and-so] receiver. It's counter-intuitive, to me.

[Hoosiernsavga]

You are not understanding the concept of #1 WR vs. a 2 or 3 so I'm not going to argue with you...And no Mike Wallace is not a number one, and don't let the Dolphins convince you otherwise.

 

I understand your arguement here with the poster on a #1,2,3 WR. Usually your wr's lining up outside are #1 and #2. The Pats have had a unique situation with Welker working out of the slot and Gronk lining out wide or at TE as their #1 and #2 for the last couple years. Now that Welker is in Denver he will play the same role but will be a #3. (Thomas #1 and Decker #2). Although Welker could still lead Denver in receptions. I do agree that no matter if TY is our #2 or #3 he will be a matchup problem.

But one thing i dont agree with is Wallace. Mike is a #1 in Miami. They didnt pay the man $60 million not to be. And if hes not who is Hartline or Gibson? No its Wallace without a doubt!

[Hoosiernsavga]

Oh yeah, to get back on topic thread. McGlynn is horrible!

[GoodLuck]

I understand your arguement here with the poster on a #1,2,3 WR. Usually your wr's lining up outside are #1 and #2. The Pats have had a unique situation with Welker working out of the slot and Gronk lining out wide or at TE as their #1 and #2 for the last couple years. Now that Welker is in Denver he will play the same role but will be a #3. (Thomas #1 and Decker #2). Although Welker could still lead Denver in receptions. I do agree that no matter if TY is our #2 or #3 he will be a matchup problem.

But one thing i dont agree with is Wallace. Mike is a #1 in Miami. They didnt pay the man $60 million not to be. And if hes not who is Hartline or Gibson? No its Wallace without a doubt!

When the season starts, Welker will probably be targeted more than Decker and Thomas. Definitely more than Decker. Just wait.

[Hoosiernsavga]

When the season starts, Welker will probably be targeted more than Decker and Thomas. Definitely more than Decker. Just wait.

 

Yeah, I wouldnt doubt that at all. One thing is for sure, Peyton has plenty of weapons in Denver.

[Gavin]

:thmsup: Not really much to say that I have not said since before Mcglynn played his first game for us, Now do you all believe me? Justice was sent packing, Mcglynn will follow at the end of his contract

[AntonMcG]

Absolutely brilliant...almost word for word my exact view on the subject.  I'm not arguing if Hilton is worthy on number 2 status or even number one, I'm saying any team in the league would use him all over the field because that is the player he is.  And it's not all over the field in terms of where he lines up but where he can take advantage of the coverage teams use on him.  No team will be able to put their best corner on Hilton, because if they do, DHB and Wayne will have a field day.

 

Sorry, but that is not what you were saying at all. And your concepts are incorrect.

 

For instance, last year the Patriots played more 2 WR sets than 3 WR sets, and Welker was always on the field, and nearly always in the slot. They often played without anyone wide on one side, or with Hernandez going in motion to the X receiver spot. Welker was the Pats #1 receiver last year.

 

Typically people confuse the Z, Y and Y receivers with 1, 2 and 3 receivers, which is just not the case.

[UKColt13]

Yeah. I was watching Cleary.  He looked solid.

You've gotta factor in that he was going against backups and 3rd stringers.

[AntonMcG]

On McGlynn... he was bullied yet again. I don't think his technique is all the terrible, it is that he is regularly dominated physically. His lower body strength looks non-existant at times.

 

That being said the starting O-Line as a whole played a lot better this week in pass blocking. Luck consistently had a clean pocket.

[itmustbejj]

I think an important point that nobody is mentioning about this whole TY/slot discussion is blocking. When you have two WR on the field, neither can be a liability in the run game. We are going to have to be able to run out of two WR sets and you want bigger bodies on the outside.

That being said I think we can expect more targets to TY than DHB whether or not DHB has more snaps.

[AntonMcG]

I think an important point that nobody is mentioning about this whole TY/slot discussion is blocking. When you have two WR on the field, neither can be a liability in the run game. We are going to have to be able to run out of two WR sets and you want bigger bodies on the outside.

That being said I think we can expect more targets to TY than DHB whether or not DHB has more snaps.

 

I get your point, and it has relevance, but personally I think the slot receiver needs to be able to block just as well, if not better, than the outside guys, especially in the offense based on a 'multiple' concept.

 

We will almost certainly run the ball more this year, and not just out of our 2-TE base. The nickel back is closer to the line of scrimmage than the corners, and so is often in a better position to make a play on the runner.

 

If we are to run the ball as well as we want to, I want our slot receiver to be a capable blocker.

 

That said, all the talk is about being a down field, power running team, which may render the need for competance in any receivers blocking irrelevant on the majority of carries.

[coltsfanatic24]

McGlynn was bad as usual  getting pushed off the line by the Giants DT's. Cleary played well at RG he did a great job moving Hankins, should start next week over Mcglynn.

[YOUR GM]

Well, we have no one better sadly.

I disagree. Linkenbach and Reitz have out performed him at guard dating back to last season. They may not be world beaters but they're certainly better than McGlynn, which makes the fact that he continues to get the nod all the more frustrating

[YOUR GM]

They tried Link over him to start the game, he wasn't any better. I think the sad truth is as much as fans don't want to admit it is that we don't have a better option at the moment. It's clear the Colts aren't afraid to try one if it's there. I think Thornton is going to be that guy in time but I wouldn't expect him to walk in and be the "answer" right away especially with him missing all of camp. I know people want the line fixed this year but it's not going to happen. Grigson elected to take a long term approach to fixing the line doing it with younger guys who can grow and develop together. What we are looking for this year is progress.

Brian Waters is still a free agent. He's old as dirt but would still be a better stop gap for a year than McGlynn currently is

[OffensivelyPC]

I disagree. Linkenbach and Reitz have out performed him at guard dating back to last season. They may not be world beaters but they're certainly better than McGlynn, which makes the fact that he continues to get the nod all the more frustrating

Which it kind of baffles me why he has got more starts.  The guy just hasn't been good for us.

[Smonroe]

I disagree. Linkenbach and Reitz have out performed him at guard dating back to last season. They may not be world beaters but they're certainly better than McGlynn, which makes the fact that he continues to get the nod all the more frustrating

 

I said this in a different thread - I always contended that the coaches put the best O linemen out there.  There's no advantage for them to play a 'favorite'.  It's not a good job strategy. 

 

That being said, I'm baffled they're still playing McGlynn.  By my logic, he must be better than any of the backups in the eyes of the coaches.  What are they seeing that I (and apparently everyone else in the free world) am missing?  Experience?  Only gets you so far.

 

We're all hoping Thorton takes the job.  Why?  Has he even practiced in pads?  Why is a rookie better than a former #2 draft pick or guys who look decent playing against the 2s?  I'm not putting him down, I'm just trying to understand it.

[Kyle]

... McGlynn can't even keep his own thread on topic.

after it was stated he sucks, there wasnt really anything else to talk about lol

[Kyle]

 

:thmsup: Not really much to say that I have not said since before Mcglynn played his first game for us, Now do you all believe me? Justice was sent packing, Mcglynn will follow at the end of his contract

 

oh ya Gavin... "now do you all believe me"  REALLY!!!!!?!?!?!?!  name one person who argued that McGlynn didnt suck.  pretty much everyone knew he sucked.  it definitely wasnt like you were the only one saying it.  

[GoColts8818]

Brian Waters is still a free agent. He's old as dirt but would still be a better stop gap for a year than McGlynn currently is

hey it's not my call its Grigson's my guess is that he doesn't want a guy like that for one year. O-line is all about playing as a group. I think the plan is to get Thornton in there as soon as they can so he can start growing and developing with this unit. Again, I think the line is a work in progress. Grigson went for a long term solution with young drafts picks rather than a quick fix. Trust me its not going to break my heart to McGlynn go.

[Coffeedrinker]

Maybe I am wrong but I thought that guy Cleary held his own. Anyone else felt that way?

I thought Cleary looked ok in run blocking but he didn't move his feet much in pass pro and he didn't seem very quick side to side.

Also did anyone see Satele pull last night?  It's very unusual to have a center pull out on a pass play.  He let the LB or end run right around him once he got out there, but man he got there in a hurry.  Very interesting to see.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I understand your arguement here with the poster on a #1,2,3 WR. Usually your wr's lining up outside are #1 and #2. The Pats have had a unique situation with Welker working out of the slot and Gronk lining out wide or at TE as their #1 and #2 for the last couple years. Now that Welker is in Denver he will play the same role but will be a #3. (Thomas #1 and Decker #2). Although Welker could still lead Denver in receptions. I do agree that no matter if TY is our #2 or #3 he will be a matchup problem.

But one thing i dont agree with is Wallace. Mike is a #1 in Miami. They didnt pay the man $60 million not to be. And if hes not who is Hartline or Gibson? No its Wallace without a doubt!

I agree that Miami thinks Mike Wallace is a number 1 and that's how they intend to use him, I was saying Miami made a mistake in doing so.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Sorry, but that is not what you were saying at all. And your concepts are incorrect.

 

For instance, last year the Patriots played more 2 WR sets than 3 WR sets, and Welker was always on the field, and nearly always in the slot. They often played without anyone wide on one side, or with Hernandez going in motion to the X receiver spot. Welker was the Pats #1 receiver last year.

 

Typically people confuse the Z, Y and Y receivers with 1, 2 and 3 receivers, which is just not the case.

Wait, I'm confused...you just argued with me by agreeing with me

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

You've gotta factor in that he was going against backups and 3rd stringers.

True, but he still looked decent in a sea of bad play.

[AntonMcG]

Wait, I'm confused...you just argued with me by agreeing with me

 

No I didn't. You just changed your argument half way through the thread.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

No I didn't. You just changed your argument half way through the thread.

I said that Hilton should not be viewed as a number one because he isn't just going to line up as a number one and go.  He's a guy you need to use against mismatches.  He may be the number one target in any progression but he shouldn't be viewed as a number one reciever.  Then the conversation turned to not calling WRs numbers at all becasue of the way the Colts move players around.  Explain to me how I changed my argument?

[AntonMcG]

I said that Hilton should not be viewed as a number one because he isn't just going to line up as a number one and go.  He's a guy you need to use against mismatches.  He may be the number one target in any progression but he shouldn't be viewed as a number one reciever.  Then the conversation turned to not calling WRs numbers at all becasue of the way the Colts move players around.  Explain to me how I changed my argument?

 

Hmm... you have a short memory

 

 

 You have to understand the concept of the receiver position. TY should never be considered a number 2, even if he becomes the greatest receiver of the planet, he is best utilized against mismatches.  If he goes outside the mismatch will follow him, or DHB and Wayne can reak havoc in the slot if they move to cover Hilton with proper coverage.  You don't just put Hilton as a number 2 because he is better than DHB, which I believe he is.  The number you put on the WR doesn't mean anything if you move guys around like the Colts do these days.

 

You originally said he would never be a #2 receiver, not a #1. And regardless, he could become a number 1.

 

You are not understanding the concept of #1 WR vs. a 2 or 3 so I'm not going to argue with you...And no Mike Wallace is not a number one, and don't let the Dolphins convince you otherwise.

 

Incorrect, Mike Wallace is Dolphins #1, what he is not is their Z receiver, which is commonly associated with being the #1 receiver, but they are two different things.

 

But calling him a number 3 does not mean he won't be on the field more that the number 2.  That's not how it works.  It's all how the coaches manage the rotation and what the play selection is.  

 

I don't define him as a #3. 

 

The last two quotes highlights your glaring contradictions.

 

Absolutely brilliant...almost word for word my exact view on the subject.  I'm not arguing if Hilton is worthy on number 2 status or even number one, I'm saying any team in the league would use him all over the field because that is the player he is.  And it's not all over the field in terms of where he lines up but where he can take advantage of the coverage teams use on him.  No team will be able to put their best corner on Hilton, because if they do, DHB and Wayne will have a field day.

 

But you just said he could never be a #1 or #2?

 

not to add to the debate but...Marques Colston is a big target, and most people would consider him a number 1 receiver, but he runs primarily out the slot.  So he's on the other end of what a slot receiver is.

 

Of course he is a #1, and it does not matter where he lines up.

 

 

 

By your definition, Reggie was a #3 reciever last year because he constantly went in motion pre-snap to exploit mismatches. Reggie is however our #1.

 

Hilton can most certainly be a #2 receiver, maybe #1. Again, you confuse the concepts of XYZ with 123. I do not know how you can claim that you have done otherwise, but I am sure you will try to.