How many fans were coaches on the NFL level?

[dn4192]

I continue to read stuff here about how the Colts should do this, or have done that, or fired this guy or signed that guy. And yes I understand as Fans we 'think' we know it all or at least more then those in charge. But isn't it easy for us to sit here and critique the team without having full knowledge of what is actually happening?

[ruksak]

I was never a pilot either, but you have to be one to crash a plane.

[1959Colts]

Well John Gruden was a good coach, and last night he was saying what a lot of us are saying, at least in regards to all the flaws in the Colts schemes.

In my opinion, a good percentage of fans do have enough common sense, to see the mistakes evident in the Colts coaching staff.

[chad72]

Oh brother!!! Here we go.

[WSO]

If the fans don't critique the team then who will? Who pays money to go watch the team? The fans have a bigger impact on the organization than you think.

[dn4192]

If the fans don't critique the team then who will? Who pays money to go watch the team? The fans have a bigger impact on the organization than you think.

How do you critique something when you don't have full access to all the information?

[chad72]

How do you critique something when you don't have full access to all the information?

Based on what you see on the field. This is an opinion forum, not a forum with a fact finding mission. If you are looking for facts, then you will just have to be satisfied with the numbers on the field and what they spew as coach speak / GM speak on podiums.

Fans give opinions based on what they see on the field, that is what the forum is for. You are entitled to yours just as others are, we all have to just tolerate it and engage in discussion based on it. No one party is always right because both sides have just that, opinions. But one can have an intelligent discussion if the points are made out well. Some choose to see the glass half full, some choose to see the glass half empty, that is all .

[dn4192]

Based on what you see on the field. This is an opinion forum, not a forum with a fact finding mission. If you are looking for facts, then you will just have to be satisfied with the numbers on the field and what they spew as coach speak / GM speak on podiums.

Fans give opinions based on what they see on the field, that is what the forum is for. You are entitled to yours just as others are, we all have to just tolerate it and engage in discussion based on it. No one party is always right because both sides have just that, opinions. But one can have an intelligent discussion if the points are made out well. Some choose to see the glass half full, some choose to see the glass half empty, that is all .

I am fine with people voicing opinions, but some of the claims and statements I have been reading are not based on fact and are almost laughable. Yes voice your displeasure of having to suffer through a losing season for the first time since the 90's, be upset that your team invested in a certain type of player that has produced for you season after season and now is struggling for the first time, but come on at least be reasonable....

[WoolMagnet]

I am fine with people voicing opinions, but some of the claims and statements I have been reading are not based on fact and are almost laughable. Yes voice your displeasure of having to suffer through a losing season for the first time since the 90's, be upset that your team invested in a certain type of player that has produced for you season after season and now is struggling for the first time, but come on at least be reasonable....

i agree fully with you.

Unfortunately, we are in the minority.

Many here think they are capable of being GM AND head coach.

Just ignore the "experts" around here. Some are living in a fantasy world.

[chad72]

I am fine with people voicing opinions, but some of the claims and statements I have been reading are not based on fact and are almost laughable. Yes voice your displeasure of having to suffer through a losing season for the first time since the 90's, be upset that your team invested in a certain type of player that has produced for you season after season and now is struggling for the first time, but come on at least be reasonable....

It is all a process, the process of denial, reconciliation etc. when we have to deal with a team whose ownership has paid (or overpaid) enough to max us to the cap and not get even a win in return so far without #18. Some cannot express it reasonably, some do. We better get that monkey off the back with a win vs the Chiefs, I just want that win to happen for our veteran guys like Freeney, Mathis, Wayne etc. that go at it 100% every game. No one wants to join the 0-16 club, as much as some of us fans would like us to, in a perverted way .

[Coltssouth]

I am fine with people voicing opinions, but some of the claims and statements I have been reading are not based on fact and are almost laughable. Yes voice your displeasure of having to suffer through a losing season for the first time since the 90's, be upset that your team invested in a certain type of player that has produced for you season after season and now is struggling for the first time, but come on at least be reasonable....

+1 for that.

[IndyD4U]

I've coached little league for years...does that qualify? From what I've seen thus far I'd say yes!!

[Coltsman1788]

I was never a pilot either, but you have to be one to crash a plane.

You are a nut. rotfl

[DukieBabe]

Let's talk about common sense. A fan doesn't need to be an expert or an "insider" to see how bad the coaching is right now. Sad but true, it all comes back to the head coach. Gruden pointed it out last night and I don't recall exactly who but one of the announcers for the Pittsburgh game pointed out as well.

A good coach leads with confidence, even if he's up against a nearly impossible situation. He doesn't have that "deer in the headlights" look on his face when quick and critical decisions are needed.

Caldwell could have just had his headphones patched into the Monday Night Football broadcast and learned what to do.

There's an old saying that applies to life in general and it sure fits here "Only a fool does something that's unsuccessful over and over again expecting different results."

[Superman]

Well John Gruden was a good coach, and last night he was saying what a lot of us are saying, at least in regards to all the flaws in the Colts schemes.

In my opinion, a good percentage of fans do have enough common sense, to see the mistakes evident in the Colts coaching staff.

Why I Think This Is Relevant, by Superman

Jon Gruden coached the Bucs when they were still predominantly a Cover 2 defense. Matter of fact, Monte Kiffin was still his defensive coordinator. Gruden understands and appreciates the Cover 2 defense, as a base defense, and his Bucs had one of the best defenses of all time in 2003. Many compared them to the '85 Bears.

What Gruden effectively was saying last night is that you can't sit in the same soft zone defense all game long and expect not to be exploited. Every defense has weaknesses. Zone defenses are a little easier to anticipate, which makes it easier for an offense to manipulate the defense. And if you run the same defense over and over again, then the offense can do the same thing over and over again with the same results. That's what the Bucs did to our defense last night. There was the obvious stretch where they kept sitting down in the middle of the field for short completions, but we also got hit for short completions on the outside.

The problem isn't that the Tampa 2 or any other zone is ineffective. It's that you can't just sit in zone defense all game long and expect to get stops against pro offenses. The coordinators are too smart. The players watch too much film. They'll pick you apart. In 2009, we switched our coverage up regularly, and had a pretty good showing. The defense was more aggressive, we got stops in crucial situations, we blitzed situationally, and the defense actually helped us win several games. We can't just run the same vanilla coverage over and over again. I just don't see how that's not obvious.

[supremecoltsfan300]

Superman said it perfectly. While fans may not know every inside detail of the team, we do watch the games and can see quite clearly that the gameplan needs to change. If we're just going to let them get short completions right in the middle, then we have to tackle. That one stretch was just brutal to watch b/c everyone (Tampa's Offense, viewers, and the broadcast crew" could see what was coming, Freeman just throwing a short pass in the middle. When that happens 6 or 7 times in a row, a change needs to have happened. The coaching staff needs to make a gameplan that takes more chances, and not just expect the opposing offense to make a mistake when the coverage isn't changing.

[z28eater]

Thread fail

[everybodysgotone]

I continue to read stuff here about how the Colts should do this, or have done that, or fired this guy or signed that guy. And yes I understand as Fans we 'think' we know it all or at least more then those in charge. But isn't it easy for us to sit here and critique the team without having full knowledge of what is actually happening?

Some fans follow the game more closely and/or have a better understanding of what's going on. Superman framed it well below here and qualified it with expert opinion. What happens on the field is out there for all to see and the product of many aspects of the game including coaching, ownership theory/team identity, player aquisition, player performance. This is why the informed talk is relevant....and that includes speculation on the 2012 draft which is just 6 months away.

Why I Think This Is Relevant, by Superman

Jon Gruden coached the Bucs when they were still predominantly a Cover 2 defense. Matter of fact, Monte Kiffin was still his defensive coordinator. Gruden understands and appreciates the Cover 2 defense, as a base defense, and his Bucs had one of the best defenses of all time in 2003. Many compared them to the '85 Bears.

What Gruden effectively was saying last night is that you can't sit in the same soft zone defense all game long and expect not to be exploited. Every defense has weaknesses. Zone defenses are a little easier to anticipate, which makes it easier for an offense to manipulate the defense. And if you run the same defense over and over again, then the offense can do the same thing over and over again with the same results. That's what the Bucs did to our defense last night. There was the obvious stretch where they kept sitting down in the middle of the field for short completions, but we also got hit for short completions on the outside.

The problem isn't that the Tampa 2 or any other zone is ineffective. It's that you can't just sit in zone defense all game long and expect to get stops against pro offenses. The coordinators are too smart. The players watch too much film. They'll pick you apart. In 2009, we switched our coverage up regularly, and had a pretty good showing. The defense was more aggressive, we got stops in crucial situations, we blitzed situationally, and the defense actually helped us win several games. We can't just run the same vanilla coverage over and over again. I just don't see how that's not obvious.

[ruksak]

I would fail as an NFL coach. So would the rest of us. That doesn't make our opinions any less valid. One needs not be a seasoned coach to understand that some things aren't being addressed properly. Just like I don't need a medical degree to know when I need stitches.

[Malakai432]

Indeed, blogs & forums primarily seem to be based on opinions. Definitely not a great place to go looking for facts.

[LUVTHESHOE]

I was never a pilot either, but you have to be one to crash a plane.

AWESOME! i am not henry ford, but i can drive and work on a car. and i never went 26-66 at wake forest

either, but i could!

[mystrymaster]

I continue to read stuff here about how the Colts should do this, or have done that, or fired this guy or signed that guy. And yes I understand as Fans we 'think' we know it all or at least more then those in charge. But isn't it easy for us to sit here and critique the team without having full knowledge of what is actually happening?

I will tell you what.

Are you a professional chef? Then don't critique any food you eat

Are you a brewer? Then don't critique any beer you drink

Are you a professional driver? Then don't complain about anyone's driving.

Are you a web developer? Then don't critique the way any web site works

Are you a designer? Then don't complain about something looking Ugly.

See how that works?

[Balzer40]

Everything on a football field will go back to coaching, period! If players are messing up then there are only 2 explainations for it. 1. The player don't have the talent and shouldn't be on the team in the 1st place, or 2. The player is not being coached to do the right things. Thats it. If a player is not tackling, out of posistion, or whatever then the coach pulls that player aside and corrects the issue. If the player continues to make the same mistakes then it is the coaches fault. It's pretty simple really, if the team felt like the players on the team deserve to be there, then they should be able to perform at a professional level. If they don't then that falls back on coaching, plain and simple.

[il vecchio]

I think opinions are great and are what make up a good message board.

On the other hand, to side somewhat with the OP, a lot of fans have a style of stating their opinion as indisputable fact, instead of merely opinion. "The Colts are doing this wrong, the Colts are doing that wrong", etc., without anything close to language that resembles opinion. Especially in situations where the it's not clear from the knowledge we have as fans.

[mystrymaster]

I think opinions are great and are what make up a good message board.

On the other hand, to side somewhat with the OP, a lot of fans have a style of stating their opinion as indisputable fact, instead of merely opinion. "The Colts are doing this wrong, the Colts are doing that wrong", etc., without anything close to language that resembles opinion. Especially in situations where the it's not clear from the knowledge we have as fans.

All posts are from opinion, and that is the only fact that will ever be stated

[John Waylon]

[dn4192]

Let's talk about common sense. A fan doesn't need to be an expert or an "insider" to see how bad the coaching is right now. Sad but true, it all comes back to the head coach. Gruden pointed it out last night and I don't recall exactly who but one of the announcers for the Pittsburgh game pointed out as well.

A good coach leads with confidence, even if he's up against a nearly impossible situation. He doesn't have that "deer in the headlights" look on his face when quick and critical decisions are needed.

Caldwell could have just had his headphones patched into the Monday Night Football broadcast and learned what to do.

There's an old saying that applies to life in general and it sure fits here "Only a fool does something that's unsuccessful over and over again expecting different results."

Again, unless you have worked on that level you have zero ability to judge their performance. As for Gruden, at least he has some insight, but if he is or was all that why is he still in the broadcast booth?

[dn4192]

Everything on a football field will go back to coaching, period! If players are messing up then there are only 2 explainations for it. 1. The player don't have the talent and shouldn't be on the team in the 1st place, or 2. The player is not being coached to do the right things. Thats it. If a player is not tackling, out of posistion, or whatever then the coach pulls that player aside and corrects the issue. If the player continues to make the same mistakes then it is the coaches fault. It's pretty simple really, if the team felt like the players on the team deserve to be there, then they should be able to perform at a professional level. If they don't then that falls back on coaching, plain and simple.

However in teh NFL you just can't cut players and bring new one's in just like that. A) We have a salary cap, B) You have a limited number of NFL players available

[GoGoColts]

These are high on my list of hated threads. The purpose of the boards is to speculate and rant. People who get on here to consistently tell people to stop speculating and ranting because they didn't play in the NFL is just silly.

We speculate and rant because we care about the team. If I lost my right o speculate and rant, I would probably stop being a fan because that is half the fun.

[Balzer40]

Again, unless you have worked on that level you have zero ability to judge their performance. As for Gruden, at least he has some insight, but if he is or was all that why is he still in the broadcast booth?

That is absolute nonsense.

[chad72]

That is absolute nonsense.

+1 for that.

[coltfaninnewyork]

I continue to read stuff here about how the Colts should do this, or have done that, or fired this guy or signed that guy. And yes I understand as Fans we 'think' we know it all or at least more then those in charge. But isn't it easy for us to sit here and critique the team without having full knowledge of what is actually happening?

dn4192 aka Jim Caldwell

[LUVTHESHOE]

That is absolute nonsense.

dn4192 is jim caldwell or someone who just likes that game where the guys wear helmets and throw that funny looking ball

[GoGoColts]

Any fool can count wins and losses.

[everybodysgotone]

All posts are from opinion, and that is the only fact that will ever be stated

That's ^ ridiculous. There are plenty of factual posts.

[ReMeDy]

I've played Madden and football games since I was five, and I play GoalLineBlitz and QuickHit Football .

But in all seriousness, you don't need to be a head coach to realize when Caldwell is making bad judgements. The timeouts, the lack of challenges... One play in particular Caldwell accepted a penalty to bring Tampa back on a 3rd & long instead of making it a 4th & 3. Tampa ended up converted the 3rd & long! I'm a firm believer that if you have an opportunity to place an opposing offense on a 4th down & +1 situation, do it, especially against the young Bucs offense and Josh Freeman's lackluster performance.This has nothing to do with us having coaching experience or not - it's basic football understanding.

[buccolts]

I was never a pilot either, but you have to be one to crash a plane.

Yep, now that the TSA's stepped in.

Life was so much simpler way back when.

[MoM]

Terrible thread. These forums are based off of opinions. If nobody had an opinion, they would exist. Simple as that. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

[mystrymaster]

That's ^ ridiculous. There are plenty of factual posts.

Well yes some posts contain facts but most also contain opinion

[bavanlan]

How do you critique something when you don't have full access to all the information?

Clearly one uses inductive, rather than deductive logic.

QED.