Bill Polians 2008 Draft.

[husker61]

So if you are going to play the stay on topic card what does Bill Polian's career have to do with the specifics of his 2008 draft?   Like the poster before pointed out most topics drift a little such as talking about Polian's career here which lead to other people pointing out he might not be the only one who may have had a hand in our losing the playoffs.  It's part of the natural discussion it's not like out of no where someone went hey let's talk about Jack Trudeau's career in this thread.  That would be an attempt to derail the thread.  However, if you follow this thread and see how it has developed his point was raised as part of the natural development of the thread.  I think the bigger problem is that his point doesn't back up your argument so you don't want to see it. 

 

i was going to say the same exact thing but didn't want to type that much. thanks!

[crazycolt1]

So if you are going to play the stay on topic card what does Bill Polian's career have to do with the specifics of his 2008 draft?   Like the poster before pointed out most topics drift a little such as talking about Polian's career here which lead to other people pointing out he might not be the only one who may have had a hand in our losing the playoffs.  It's part of the natural discussion it's not like out of no where someone went hey let's talk about Jack Trudeau's career in this thread.  That would be an attempt to derail the thread.  However, if you follow this thread and see how it has developed his point was raised as part of the natural development of the thread.  I think the bigger problem is that his point doesn't back up your argument so you don't want to see it. 

Thats where we differ. Because I make a point you call it argument. This thread is for debate, not argument. If my opinions do not please you we can debate, other than that I will not have an argument with you. Good day.

[GoColts8818]

Thats where we differ. Because I make a point you call it argument. This thread is for debate, not argument. If my opinions do not please you we can debate, other than that I will not have an argument with you. Good day.

Argument/debate are often interchangeable words because a debate is by it's definition an exchange of different arguments.  Argument does not equal fight.  That is one way to take the word argument another way is an exchange of opinions during the course of debate, so in other words you are taking one word out of my post and trying to make it about that and completing ignoring the rest of my point which was simply this, I don't think you have a real issue with a topic going slightly off topic, in fact I would dare say you know that they do, you just didn't happen to like the fact he raised because it doesn't support the point you were trying to make so you tried to make it about the topic going off course which it wasn't, at least not anymore than talking about Polian's career in the first place was, rather than address his point which you are now trying to do with me. 

 

With that said I do not wish to have a "fight" with you so I would agree that we have both made our points so we can let the thread return to it's normal course of events. 

[dgambill]

We drafted three offensive linemen. None of them played well for us. Two of them are out of the league. Howard never did anything.

 

Wheeler came on slow, then had a good year and left in free agency. Tamme came on in year 3. Hart never stayed on the field. Garcon was a really good pick.

 

There's no way I'd give this draft a B-, not with the benefit of hindsight. Truth is we got very little out of this draft over the last five seasons.

This is all stupid to tell because we don't know what someone else would have picked...would they have been better?? Its all guessing but all I know is we did go to the SB with that team in 2009 and Garcon was a huge part of that team....and the loss lol...but it is hard not to agree that those drafts weren't the start of our problems. Polian was a big reason for our success...and subsequent fall....so while people blame him...they never praise him for building the team in the earlier years.

 

I really think we were snake bitten towards the end. Every team has bad luck but our bad luck came with those at the TOP of our draft board. Players we invested heavily in like Gonzalez, Uguh, Ijalana, and some others kill your teams over-all skill. That hurts more than missing on guys from like rd 4 on.

 

Football is soo random...we could have had plenty of other SB runs....had SD's punter not put on a clinic, had Big Ben not tripped our corner on a fumble recovery that should have went for a td. Had the team not killed themselves with turnovers against the Patriots. Had we recovered an onside kick....had Freeney been healthy...had we not called time out and not had terrible kick coverage. Lots and lots of variables including some in which Peyton had some bad games. Polian put together teams that were certainly good enough to win...and yes Peyton covered up a TON of glaring weaknesses...but overall Polian was a solid GM I think that can't be denied. We've seen teams that constantly screw up...and that wasn't us....I'm sure some people could say how could SD not win a SB with the teams they had or how could Miami only go to one with Dan Marino....point is we had lots of great success and it could have been greater...but also could easily been worse. Easily.

[Superman]

This is all stupid to tell because we don't know what someone else would have picked...would they have been better?? Its all guessing but all I know is we did go to the SB with that team in 2009 and Garcon was a huge part of that team....and the loss lol...but it is hard not to agree that those drafts weren't the start of our problems. Polian was a big reason for our success...and subsequent fall....so while people blame him...they never praise him for building the team in the earlier years.

 

I really think we were snake bitten towards the end. Every team has bad luck but our bad luck came with those at the TOP of our draft board. Players we invested heavily in like Gonzalez, Uguh, Ijalana, and some others kill your teams over-all skill. That hurts more than missing on guys from like rd 4 on.

 

Football is soo random...we could have had plenty of other SB runs....had SD's punter not put on a clinic, had Big Ben not tripped our corner on a fumble recovery that should have went for a td. Had the team not killed themselves with turnovers against the Patriots. Had we recovered an onside kick....had Freeney been healthy...had we not called time out and not had terrible kick coverage. Lots and lots of variables including some in which Peyton had some bad games. Polian put together teams that were certainly good enough to win...and yes Peyton covered up a TON of glaring weaknesses...but overall Polian was a solid GM I think that can't be denied. We've seen teams that constantly screw up...and that wasn't us....I'm sure some people could say how could SD not win a SB with the teams they had or how could Miami only go to one with Dan Marino....point is we had lots of great success and it could have been greater...but also could easily been worse. Easily.

You make a ton of great points. I'll just point out again that I'm not a Polian basher. I would be defending him against a lot of the criticism in this thread, but I just don't have the energy to have this discussion again.

That said, the 2008 draft really didn't do much to make our team better, certainly not in 2008. Having Garcon helped in 2009, and Wheeler and Tamme started to contribute in 2010 and 2011. But Polian whiffed on several picks that year, especially at positions of need. And that was a crucial time for the team,with Glenn retiring, Scott leaving and Lilja getting hurt. To miss on three picks for three offensive linemen in one year sucks, but especially with that kind of turnover happening.

Like you say, there was a lot of bad luck, for lack of a better term, that lead to the erosion of the roster. But the substandard drafting didn't help either.

[dgambill]

You make a ton of great points. I'll just point out again that I'm not a Polian basher. I would be defending him against a lot of the criticism in this thread, but I just don't have the energy to have this discussion again.

That said, the 2008 draft really didn't do much to make our team better, certainly not in 2008. Having Garcon helped in 2009, and Wheeler and Tamme started to contribute in 2010 and 2011. But Polian whiffed on several picks that year, especially at positions of need. And that was a crucial time for the team,with Glenn retiring, Scott leaving and Lilja getting hurt. To miss on three picks for three offensive linemen in one year sucks, but especially with that kind of turnover happening.

Like you say, there was a lot of bad luck, for lack of a better term, that lead to the erosion of the roster. But the substandard drafting didn't help either.

Sorry. I didn't mean to say you were...I only ment to quote the part about those guys never really meaning much to our success. Who knows what we would have drafted instead of Garcon but he was key to that SB run. I agree with you on your points...as often i do...didn't mean to imply anything or single your post out...sorry.

[Dark Superman]

How can a GM choke in the postseason?

He built a franchise that wasnt balanced. We had a team that could score 35 and give up 40 points. There was hardly ever any balance.

[Insert Colts Pun Here]

2 28 (59) Mike Pollak C Arizona State

3 30 (93) Philip Wheeler ILB Georgia Tech

4 28 (127) Jacob Tamme TE Kentucky

5 26 (161) Marcus Howard OLB Georgia

6 30 (196) Tom Santi TE Virginia

6* 35 (201) Steve Justice C Wake Forest

6* 36 (202) Mike Hart RB Michigan

6* 39 (205) Pierre Garcon WR Mount Union

7 29 (236) Jamey Richard C Buffalo

This Draft always kills me.. Smh.

 

I like Jacob Tamme. 

[Jason_]

I like Jacob Tamme. 

 

I actually would have liked to have seen what Wheeler could have done in this new defense.  

[Superman]

I actually would have liked to have seen what Wheeler could have done in this new defense.

Me too.

[Superman]

He built a franchise that wasnt balanced. We had a team that could score 35 and give up 40 points. There was hardly ever any balance.

What does "choking" mean?

He built a team that was good enough to get to the playoffs. The team didn't play well enough. How did HE choke?

[TKnight24]

What does "choking" mean?

He built a team that was good enough to get to the playoffs. The team didn't play well enough. How did HE choke?

 

Off-topic here, but Superman.... how do I change my username on here?

[dgambill]

He built a franchise that wasnt balanced. We had a team that could score 35 and give up 40 points. There was hardly ever any balance.

He built a team around its greatest strength...its qb. He gave him weapons to maximize his potential and then built a defense that was bend but don't break...players that fit Dungy's tampa 2...smaller, faster guys, that will get to the ball quickly minimizing gains and hopefully our pass rush could get to the qb. How many games did we lose 35-40??? Generally, if we got in a shoot out we won...when the other team was able to slow or stop our offense we lost. Not saying we couldn't have had more balance or made better decisions but our failures often were not against teams that were superior to us...but simply we played poorly against. We never were able to sustain a pass rush against Brady, we always had issues running against the Bolts but overall we had some badly played games (NE and Pitt) in back to back years when I fully believe we had a better team. After 09 I agree we got old, drafted poorly, and had a lot of bad breaks but those middle years in the 2000's we simply did not perform up to our standard in those playoff games and the same team you say Bill crafted won the only SB we have here in Indy BECAUSE we were so called "Balanced" that post season. I just don't get your arguement.