Coby Fleener

[Jason_]

It wasn't a blatant drop, like I said credit to the Bills player for making a play on the ball too, but it was one he should have caught.  He had both hands on it with both feet down in the endzone those are ones you have to come up with.  I am not the only one who thinks this either, Jim Sorgi said it yesterday on the radio and just about every "expert" I've heard on the radio today said he should have caught the pass.  If you disagree with it fine I can agree to disagree over it.

 

Again, just something Fleener can clean up and I am sure he's going to work on. 

 

yeah...I for one definitely disagree.  it was a great defensive play.  not that it was completely uncatchable but definitely not a "should have caught" and in no way would I consider it a drop in any sense of the word.

[House]

It wasn't a blatant drop, like I said credit to the Bills player for making a play on the ball too, but it was one he should have caught. He had both hands on it with both feet down in the endzone those are ones you have to come up with. I am not the only one who thinks this either, Jim Sorgi said it yesterday on the radio and just about every "expert" I've heard on the radio today said he should have caught the pass. If you disagree with it fine I can agree to disagree over it.

Again, just something Fleener can clean up and I am sure he's going to work on.

I've stated multiple times on here, and to you specifically, that I think he should have caught it. I said it in the game thread when it happened live.

However, it was not a drop. It met no conditions of what qualifies as a drop. It was a big time catch, that he didn't make. And if you want to be worth anything in this league, those are the types of plays you need to start making. But that also wasn't a catch that even the best recievers in the NFL will make 10/10 times.

So is it something he can work on? Absolutely. But it's not a drop, and it certainly wasn't as easy of a catch as some are blowing it up to be. If you never saw it live, you would think he was wide open going off the hyperbole around here.

[YOUR GM]

 

Your golden boy Allen will drop a ball and lose a fumble every once in a while.  He had a fumble last year.  He's not perfect either.  And he doesn't really have the level of athleticism that Fleener does so it's less likely that Allen would even be able to get into either of those situations in the first place.

 

 

Fleener has accomplished very little in the league so far.  Allen has accomplished a lot more.

We cannot say that Fleener is good until he actually does play consistently.

So far, I see a big awkward looking dude who struggles to get separation, has average hands and does not know how to secure the ball.

What it is all about is this...fans do not want to admit their high 2nd rounder will turn out to be average or less.

 

 

 

Hey guys....little secret here, you gotta promise not to tell anyone else.... 

 

They're BOTH Indianapolis Colts 

 

*snickers*

[GoColts8818]

I've stated multiple times on here, and to you specifically, that I think he should have caught it. I said it in the game thread when it happened live.

However, it was not a drop. It met no conditions of what qualifies as a drop. It was a big time catch, that he didn't make. And if you want to be worth anything in this league, those are the types of plays you need to start making. But that also wasn't a catch that even the best recievers in the NFL will make 10/10 times.

ex

So is it something he can work on? Absolutely. But it's not a drop, and it certainly wasn't as easy of a catch as some are blowing it up to be. If you never saw it live, you would think he was wide open going off the hyperbole around here.

You are entitled to your opinion, based on what I saw yesterday I would call it a drop.  Again, I am not the only one who felt that way, Sorgi called it a drop on the broadcast as has just about any "expert" that has been on local radio today.  If it doesn't match your definition of a drop fine.  We can agree to disagree on that part, at least I can I would hope you can because I don't think it's that deep. 

 

I didn't say it was an easy catch but it was also not some acrobatic catch that would have been amazing if he caught it either.  He had both hands on the ball in the endzone with his feet down, you are expected to hold on those kinds of passes in the NFL, even if it's not the easiest catch in the world, which by the way I never said it was.  I said it's a pass you expect him to come up with, the fact he didn't is something you can point out as something he can improve on and shouldn't be having your feet held to fire over it. 

 

I've said I don't know how many times I think Fleener is going to have a good a season so I am clearly not out to attack Fleener like some have been.  However, to act like he was amazing yesterday when he had a fumble when he didn't have both hands on the ball and didn't come up with a catch on pass he could have caught in the endzone is going a little in the other way on Fleener.  He showed signs yesterday that should make Colts fans happy but let's not act like he had an amazing day yesterday because he did not.  He made a couple of mistakes and it's okay to point those out.

[House]

You are entitled to your opinion, based on what I saw yesterday I would call it a drop. Again, I am not the only one who felt that way, Sorgi called it a drop on the broadcast as has just about any "expert" that has been on local radio today. If it doesn't match your definition of a drop fine. We can agree to disagree on that part, at least I can I would hope you can because I don't think it's that deep.

I didn't say it was an easy catch but it was also not some acrobatic catch that would have been amazing if he caught it either. He had both hands on the ball in the endzone with his feet down, you are expected to hold on those kinds of passes in the NFL, even if it's not the easiest catch in the world, which by the way I never said it was. I said it's a pass you expect him to come up with, the fact he didn't is something you can point out as something he can improve on and shouldn't be having your feet held to fire over it.

I've said I don't know how many times I think Fleener is going to have a good a season so I am clearly not out to attack Fleener like some have been. However, to act like he was amazing yesterday when he had a fumble when he didn't have both hands on the ball and didn't come up with a catch on pass he could have caught in the endzone is going a little in the other way on Fleener. He showed signs yesterday that should make Colts fans happy but let's not act like he had an amazing day yesterday because he did not. He made a couple of mistakes and it's okay to point those out.

Lol it's not my opinion, it's how the definition of drops is defined by stat keepers. It's not a drop. It doesn't qualify as a drop.

Again he had a chance to catch a contested ball, and he didn't. That's all. It's being treated like some fatal flaw. Maybe not by yourself so much, but it wasn't that big of an error.

I'm certainly not "holding your feet over fire" or accusing you of anything regarding Fleener. I just object with the term drop your attributing to his missed catch. If experts, and Sorgi, called it a drop, by all definitions I've been able to find, they misspoke.

That's my only objection to anything you've posted lol.

[Jason_]

You are entitled to your opinion, based on what I saw yesterday I would call it a drop.  Again, I am not the only one who felt that way, Sorgi called it a drop on the broadcast as has just about any "expert" that has been on local radio today.  If it doesn't match your definition of a drop fine.  We can agree to disagree on that part, at least I can I would hope you can because I don't think it's that deep. 

 

I didn't say it was an easy catch but it was also not some acrobatic catch that would have been amazing if he caught it either.  He had both hands on the ball in the endzone with his feet down, you are expected to hold on those kinds of passes in the NFL, even if it's not the easiest catch in the world, which by the way I never said it was.  I said it's a pass you expect him to come up with, the fact he didn't is something you can point out as something he can improve on and shouldn't be having your feet held to fire over it. 

 

I've said I don't know how many times I think Fleener is going to have a good a season so I am clearly not out to attack Fleener like some have been.  However, to act like he was amazing yesterday when he had a fumble when he didn't have both hands on the ball and didn't come up with a catch on pass he could have caught in the endzone is going a little in the other way on Fleener.  He showed signs yesterday that should make Colts fans happy but let's not act like he had an amazing day yesterday because he did not.  He made a couple of mistakes and it's okay to point those out.

 

I can possibly see a discussion about whether or not he should have caught it.  However, there's simply no way it could be considered a drop.  He had both hands on it but the defender, Kiko Alonso, punched his arm through and directly hit the football, knocking it out of Fleener's hands.  In order for Fleener to have caught it, he would have had to have kept his arms extended.  It's not to say that he couldn't have done that but it would have been a spectacular catch, one that hopefully he is able to make with practice and experience but , like someone said somewhere, that's not a catch that any receiver or TE is going to make 10 times out of 10.

 

In fact, just for fun I decided to rewatch the play again.  Here is the commentary.  Granted the same guy drove me insane with his inability to pronounce Loiseau, but he did see and describe exactly what happened on that play:

 

 

"Coby Fleener was there, had his hands on the football but could not pull it in.  Alonso, the defensive player, a linebacker for buffalo, did a nice job there of knocking the ball loose."

 

I mean, simply by definition, a ball that has been knocked loose could not be considered a drop.

[Jason_]

Hey guys....little secret here, you gotta promise not to tell anyone else.... 

 

They're BOTH Indianapolis Colts 

 

*snickers*

 

lol...yeah I know and I like Allen a lot.  I just think there are quite a few people who are going a bit overboard in the Allen love, and the some of those same people are going way overboard with the Fleener hate. 

[GoColts8818]

Lol it's not my opinion, it's how the definition of drops is defined by stat keepers. It's not a drop. It doesn't qualify as a drop.

Again he had a chance to catch a contested ball, and he didn't. That's all. It's being treated like some fatal flaw. Maybe not by yourself so much, but it wasn't that big of an error.

I'm certainly not "holding your feet over fire" or accusing you of anything regarding Fleener. I just object with the term drop your attributing to his missed catch. If experts, and Sorgi, called it a drop, by all definitions I've been able to find, they misspoke.

That's my only objection to anything you've posted lol.

Actually rather something was a drop or not is one of the bigger things that is an opinion because it's a judgment call on if you think it meat the definition of it or not.   Again, Sorgi, Chappell, Kravitz, some guy who writes for ESPN, Krauss, Dilger, and Trudeau all said it was a drop.  No it's not like it hit him in the hands and he just flat out dropped it but it's a pass that every one of those people seemed to think he should caught.  I think the fact that he didn't catch a pass that many felt he could have and should have caught is a bigger issue than if it fits the definition of a drop or not.  If you don't want to call it a drop fine.  It's really arguing over a term and missing the main point which is Fleener didn't catch a pass that he could have and probably should have caught, even if it wouldn't have been the easiest catch in the world. 

 

When did I say it was a fatal flaw?  Honestly the fumble bothered me a lot more than not catching the TD did.  If I thought it was a fatal flaw I wouldn't keep saying Fleener is going to have a good season and things like that these mistakes should be easy to correct.  With that said, I am not scared to say while he did some nice things yesterday he wasn't perfect and I don't think we should be looking to make excuses for two mistakes he made that can be corrected.  It's okay to say yeah he made a couple of mistakes and I expect those to get corrected.  Pointing those out is not bashing on Fleener.  I can also promise you the coaches are going to point those mistakes out to him and make sure he works on them. 

[Jason_]

Actually rather something was a drop or not is one of the bigger things that is an opinion because it's a judgment call on if you think it meat the definition of it or not.   Again, Sorgi, Chappell, Kravitz, some guy who writes for ESPN, Krauss, Dilger, and Trudeau all said it was a drop.  No it's not like it hit him in the hands and he just flat out dropped it but it's a pass that every one of those people seemed to think he should caught.  I think the fact that he didn't catch a pass that many felt he could have and should have caught is a bigger issue than if it fits the definition of a drop or not.  If you don't want to call it a drop fine.  It's really arguing over a term and missing the main point which is Fleener didn't catch a pass that he could have and probably should have caught, even if it wouldn't have been the easiest catch in the world. 

 

When did I say it was a fatal flaw?  Honestly the fumble bothered me a lot more than not catching the TD did.  If I thought it was a fatal flaw I wouldn't keep saying Fleener is going to have a good season and things like that these mistakes should be easy to correct.  With that said, I am not scared to say while he did some nice things yesterday he wasn't perfect and I don't think we should be looking to make excuses for two mistakes he made that can be corrected.  It's okay to say yeah he made a couple of mistakes and I expect those to get corrected.  Pointing those out is not bashing on Fleener.  I can also promise you the coaches are going to point those mistakes out to him and make sure he works on them. 

 

When you're at work, if your boss came by and gave you a lecture about something that was not your fault...that wouldn't bother you just a little bit?  Maybe instead of looking at Fleener, we need to be telling Hasselbeck to throw the ball a second sooner or a yard deeper.  I'm all for holding people accountable and correcting mistakes.  I have no problem saying he made a mistake on the fumble...he needed to secure the ball sooner than he did.  that was a mistake that he made.  I don't consider the TD pass to be a mistake on his part.  I don't think that's one of the catches that he "should have" caught.  I wouldn't say that's a pass that Reggie "should have" caught.  It's hard to say that anyone should catch a ball that gets punched out of their hands.  That was one of those plays that is the highlight of the week if it's made, but when it's not, well...it was just a great play by the defense.  Reggie isn't going to catch that type of pass 10 times out of 10 so I don't get how we can expect Fleener to make that kind of play...in the first preseason game of his second year in the league.  Just seems like very unrealistic expectations.

 

In some cases yeah I can see there being some difference opinion on whether a particular play was a drop or not.  One that comes to mind was the pass to Ballard in the red zone when he got nailed and failed to make the catch.  I could see that one being a little more difficult to call.  But....I can't think of any possible scenario that could occur for a situation where the defender gets his hand directly on the ball and it still being considered a drop.

[jvan1973]

You are entitled to your opinion, based on what I saw yesterday I would call it a drop. Again, I am not the only one who felt that way, Sorgi called it a drop on the broadcast as has just about any "expert" that has been on local radio today. If it doesn't match your definition of a drop fine. We can agree to disagree on that part, at least I can I would hope you can because I don't think it's that deep.

I didn't say it was an easy catch but it was also not some acrobatic catch that would have been amazing if he caught it either. He had both hands on the ball in the endzone with his feet down, you are expected to hold on those kinds of passes in the NFL, even if it's not the easiest catch in the world, which by the way I never said it was. I said it's a pass you expect him to come up with, the fact he didn't is something you can point out as something he can improve on and shouldn't be having your feet held to fire over it.

I've said I don't know how many times I think Fleener is going to have a good a season so I am clearly not out to attack Fleener like some have been. However, to act like he was amazing yesterday when he had a fumble when he didn't have both hands on the ball and didn't come up with a catch on pass he could have caught in the endzone is going a little in the other way on Fleener. He showed signs yesterday that should make Colts fans happy but let's not act like he had an amazing day yesterday because he did not. He made a couple of mistakes and it's okay to point those out.

when did Sorgi become an expert at anything other than being peytons personal waterboy

[GoColts8818]

when did Sorgi become an expert at anything other than being peytons personal waterboy

Ha Ha, he's a former NFL QB I think he's qualified to say if a pass should have been caught or not. 

[House]

Actually rather something was a drop or not is one of the bigger things that is an opinion because it's a judgment call on if you think it meat the definition of it or not. Again, Sorgi, Chappell, Kravitz, some guy who writes for ESPN, Krauss, Dilger, and Trudeau all said it was a drop. No it's not like it hit him in the hands and he just flat out dropped it but it's a pass that every one of those people seemed to think he should caught. I think the fact that he didn't catch a pass that many felt he could have and should have caught is a bigger issue than if it fits the definition of a drop or not. If you don't want to call it a drop fine. It's really arguing over a term and missing the main point which is Fleener didn't catch a pass that he could have and probably should have caught, even if it wouldn't have been the easiest catch in the world.

When did I say it was a fatal flaw? Honestly the fumble bothered me a lot more than not catching the TD did. If I thought it was a fatal flaw I wouldn't keep saying Fleener is going to have a good season and things like that these mistakes should be easy to correct. With that said, I am not scared to say while he did some nice things yesterday he wasn't perfect and I don't think we should be looking to make excuses for two mistakes he made that can be corrected. It's okay to say yeah he made a couple of mistakes and I expect those to get corrected. Pointing those out is not bashing on Fleener. I can also promise you the coaches are going to point those mistakes out to him and make sure he works on them.

"It's being treated like some fatal flaw. Maybe not by yourself so much"

I felt pretty explicit in that.

Any catch that cannot be 100% traced back to the WR making a mistake is not a drop. It has to be soley a mistake made by the player for it to be a drop. No outside forces impacting the play. It wasn't a drop. There is a criteria for measuring drops. It's not all that subjective. All the guys you listed, are incorrect in their usage. I don't know what to tell you.

If the defender doesn't punch the ball, he likely catches it. Therefore not a drop lol.

I also don't know why you keep acting like I'm getting on your case about critiquing Fleener. I have mentioned the fumble zero times, but you mentioned it in almost every reply to me. All we've disagreed on is the incorrect usage of the word drop. Because it makes it sound like Fleener was the only reason that pass wasn't completed, and that's not that case on that play. Maybe a better player makes that catch, maybe he doesn't. Who knows.

I don't care if you critique Coby, I'm not his personal Internet protector.

[House]

Ha Ha, he's a former NFL QB I think he's qualified to say if a pass should have been caught or not.

Wouldn't a WR, or a TE actually know better than a QB who has probably never caught a heavily defended pass in his life?

If Peyton Manning told me a kicker should have made the 54yrd field goal he missed, I would take that with a grain of salt lol.

[indy1888]

I guess i need to see the replay again because i do not recall it being a very difficult catch. In fact it looked like a pretty dang good offensive play to me. Good throw and all.  Looked to me like Fleener just didn't secure the ball quick enough and left it open to being punched out.  Someone mentioned it being play of the week had he made the catch.  I must have been watching a different game because the Hilton catch was a much more difficult catch. Completely laid out and still holds on after slamming the turf.  Great players make tough catches.

[GoColts8818]

"It's being treated like some fatal flaw. Maybe not by yourself so much"

I felt pretty explicit in that.

Any catch that cannot be 100% traced back to the WR making a mistake is not a drop. It has to be soley a mistake made by the player for it to be a drop. No outside forces impacting the play. It wasn't a drop. There is a criteria for measuring drops. It's not all that subjective. All the guys you listed, are incorrect in their usage. I don't know what to tell you.

If the defender doesn't punch the ball, he likely catches it. Therefore not a drop lol.

I also don't know why you keep acting like I'm getting on your case about critiquing Fleener. I have mentioned the fumble zero times, but you mentioned it in almost every reply to me. All we've disagreed on is the incorrect usage of the word drop. Because it makes it sound like Fleener was the only reason that pass wasn't completed, and that's not that case on that play.

I don't care if you critique Coby, I'm not his personal Internet protector.

Again, people who have played in the NFL disagreed with you on if it's a drop or not.  Even if it doesn't fit the stat definition of a drop I think the bigger issue is that he didn't catch a pass that professionals seems to think he should have caught even if it wasn't the easiest catch in the world. 

 

With that said is it some kind of fatal flaw?  No I don't think so, I think it's something that can be corrected.  I know people have been overly harsh on Fleener which is why I keep going out of my way to say I think he'll have a good season.  I like Fleener I really do, however,, just because I like him doesn't mean I am going to a turn blind eye to a couple of mistakes he made yesterday.  With that said it's a couple of mistakes and pointing those out doesn't mean I think they are a fatal flaw either. 

 

You really do seem to be going out of your way to try to excuse Fleener not catching that pass yesterday, I don't think the coaches are going to be any where nearly as forgiving as you are.  I think they are going to look at him and go you have to make that catch.  I think Fleener knows he should have made the catch.  The media is saying he should have made the catch so I don't think I as a fan am out of line for saying he should have made the catch even if it wasn't the easiest catch in the world.  Again, credit to the Bills player for making a nice play but Fleener should have still caught the pass. 

 

Again, I think we've reached the point of agree to disagree because it's clear neither of us is going to change the other person's mind. 

[GoColts8818]

Wouldn't a WR, or a TE actually know better than a QB who has probably never caught a heavily defended pass in his life?

If Peyton Manning told me a kicker should have made the 54yrd field goal he missed, I would take that with a grain of salt lol.

Well since Dilger also said today he should have caught the pass I would say it's safe to say that Sorgi wasn't the only one who felt that way and yes I am going to take the word of an ex-QB who has played in the NFL over an internet fan when it comes to if someone should have caught a pass or not. 

[GoColts8818]

I guess i need to see the replay again because i do not recall it being a very difficult catch. In fact it looked like a pretty dang good offensive play to me. Good throw and all.  Looked to me like Fleener just didn't secure the ball quick enough and left it open to being punched out.  Someone mentioned it being play of the week had he made the catch.  I must have been watching a different game because the Hilton catch was a much more difficult catch. Completely laid out and still holds on after slamming the turf.  Great players make tough catches.

That's in a nut shell what ex players have been saying about it today.  Again, very fixable. 

[House]

Again, people who have played in the NFL disagreed with you on if it's a drop or not. Even if it doesn't fit the stat definition of a drop I think the bigger issue is that he didn't catch a pass that professionals seems to think he should have caught even if it wasn't the easiest catch in the world.

With that said is it some kind of fatal flaw? No I don't think so, I think it's something that can be corrected. I know people have been overly harsh on Fleener which is why I keep going out of my way to say I think he'll have a good season. I like Fleener I really do, however,, just because I like him doesn't mean I am going to a turn blind eye to a couple of mistakes he made yesterday. With that said it's a couple of mistakes and pointing those out doesn't mean I think they are a fatal flaw either.

You really do seem to be going out of your way to try to excuse Fleener not catching that pass yesterday, I don't think the coaches are going to be any where nearly as forgiving as you are. I think they are going to look at him and go you have to make that catch. I think Fleener knows he should have made the catch. The media is saying he should have made the catch so I don't think I as a fan am out of line for saying he should have made the catch even if it wasn't the easiest catch in the world. Again, credit to the Bills player for making a nice play but Fleener should have still caught the pass.

Again, I think we've reached the point of agree to disagree because it's clear neither of us is going to change the other person's mind.

It doesn't matter if they use drop to describe a difficult catch, that's incorrect lol. You keep bringing it up, but it continues to be a null point because its wrong.

And please show me where I have made an excuse for Fleener. Or have you forgotten how I too think he should have reeled that ball in?

Call it a difficult catch that he should have made, but it wasn't a drop. That's my only objection to your analysis.

[GoColts8818]

It doesn't matter if they use drop to describe a difficult catch, that's incorrect lol. You keep bringing it up, but it continues to be a null point because its wrong.

And please show me where I have made an excuse for Fleener. Or have you forgotten how I too think he should have reeled that ball in?

Call it a difficult catch that he should have made, but it wasn't a drop. That's my only objection to your analysis.

Agree to disagree and I am going to leave it at that we aren't going to change each other's mind so we might as well stop trying.

[House]

Well since Dilger also said today he should have caught the pass I would say it's safe to say that Sorgi wasn't the only one who felt that way and yes I am going to take the word of an ex-QB who has played in the NFL over an internet fan when it comes to if someone should have caught a pass or not.

Excellent because I've already said ad nauseum, that I think he should have caught it. Only that the usage of it being a statistic drop is/continues to be incorrect.

I'm happy my opinion fits with what these experts say however. Validates a lot of my life.

[House]

Agree to disagree and I am going to leave it at that we aren't going to change each other's mind so we might as well stop trying.

There's no minds to change, I'm just correcting an inaccuracy your posting about, and apparently hearing from experts.

No ill will.

[GoColts8818]

There's no minds to change, I'm just correcting an inaccuracy your posting about, and apparently hearing from experts.

No ill will.

I don't think it was an inaccuracy, just about everyone outside of this forum refereed to it as a drop so while you might not think it was one clearly several other people disagree with you about it.  Again, rather something is a drop or not is one of the more judgmental stats there is.  if you don't think it fits the definition then fine, I as well as several others disagree with you.  Again, this is over a term, I still say and feel the real issue and frankly what I was pointing out is he didn't catch a pass he probably should have.  Rather it meets the definition of a NFL drop or not for stats doesn't change that concern. 

 

So again, disagree or do you really feel the need to sit and try to proclaim you are correcting me on something or can we just let it go? 

[House]

I don't think it was an inaccuracy, just about everyone outside of this forum refereed to it as a drop so while you might not think it was one clearly several other people disagree with you about it. Again, rather something is a drop or not is one of the more judgmental stats there is. if you don't think it fits the definition then fine, I as well as several others disagree with you. Again, this is over a term, I still say and feel the real issue and frankly what I was pointing out is he didn't catch a pass he probably should have. Rather it meets the definition of a NFL drop or not for stats doesn't change that concern.

So again, disagree or do you really feel the need to sit and try to proclaim you are correcting me on something or can we just let it go?

I'm just having a bit of fun with you. Your the one getting bent out of shape lol.

But find me any definition of a drop being an instance where a defender knocks the ball away, and I will happily admit I am wrong, and tweet all those experts my apologies. It isn't some subjective stat that you apply to any difficult catch, there is a "formula" so to speak, which I provided a few pages back.

Also for the millionth time I think he should have caught it too, but just because he should have/could have caught it, doesn't make it a drop.

Knowledge is power

[ConBro]

The fumble reminded me of the preseason game against the Steelers last year when TY bobbled a sure-bet TD right to a defender, causing a pick. Hilton was understandably upset by it, but came out and said that he had "All-State Hands" and that we were "in good hands". The kid has been a stud ever since (what a play yesterday I might add). Long story short, let's not sell Fleener short over a fumble caused by a two-on-one collision.

[GoColts8818]

I'm just having a bit of fun with you. Your the one getting bent out of shape lol.

But find me any definition of a drop being in instance where a defender knocks the ball away, and I will happily admit I am wrong, and tweet all those experts my apologies. It isn't some subjective stat that you apply to any difficult catch, there is a "formula" so to speak, which I provided a few pages back.

I am not really that bent out of shape over it but if you wish to think so please feel free. 

 

I'll say again the real issue was the fact he didn't catch a ball that he should have caught, even if it wasn't the easiest catch to make in the world.  That matters a whole lot more than if it's matches the NFL's definition of a drop or not. 

[House]

I am not really that bent out of shape over it but if you wish to think so please feel free.

I'll say again the real issue was the fact he didn't catch a ball that he should have caught, even if it wasn't the easiest catch to make in the world. That matters a whole lot more than if it's matches the NFL's definition of a drop or not.

I already agreed with all of that. I just disagreed with the word "drop", because it wasn't one. I'm not disputing anything else but that, I'm not sure why your acting like I was.

This feels redundant .

Also you insinuated I accused you of bashing Fleener when I indicated nothing of the sort, so my apologies if I picked that up as defensiveness on your part.

[GoColts8818]

I already agreed with all of that. I just disagreed with the word "drop", because it wasn't one. I'm not disputing anything else but that, I'm not sure why your acting like I was.

This feels redundant .

Also you insinuated I accused you of bashing Fleener when I indicated nothing of the sort, so my apologies if I picked that up as defensiveness on your part.

again, agree to disagree, I am going to side with the guys who played with the NFL on that one.  If you disagree like I keep telling you that's fine.  Like I keep saying we aren't going to change each other's mind on this so why don't we stop trying?  When you keep insisting you are right that keeps trying.  Sorry I don't think you are.  With that said why are you going to the point to debate this much over a term if we agree on the larger point?  It's pretty much one of us going the sky is blue and the other one going no it's sky blue or I am more right than you.  It's silly on both our parts so why don't we just leave the debate here?

[House]

again, agree to disagree, I am going to side with the guys who played with the NFL on that one. If you disagree like I keep telling you that's fine. Like I keep saying we aren't going to change each other's mind on this so why don't we stop trying? When you keep insisting you are right that keeps trying. Sorry I don't think you are. With that said why are you going to the point to debate this much over a term if we agree on the larger point? It's pretty much one of us going the sky is blue and the other one going no it's sky blue or I am more right than you. It's silly on both our parts so why don't we just leave the debate here?

Lol because I feel drop doesn't describe accurately how that particular play went down, that's all. To someone who didn't see the play "drop" makes it seem like a ball you catch 100 times out of 100.

Who knows maybe I'm just stubborn

[Jason_]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NewEra]

The fumble reminded me of the preseason game against the Steelers last year when TY bobbled a sure-bet TD right to a defender, causing a pick. Hilton was understandably upset by it, but came out and said that he had "All-State Hands" and that we were "in good hands". The kid has been a stud ever since (what a play yesterday I might add). Long story short, let's not sell Fleener short over a fumble caused by a two-on-one collision.

Yeah was at the game and from watching it live and from the replay at the game it looked like the defender just came in and popped it loose. He was runni g hard with the ball. Think he spun and the guy came in and popped him. Sometimes you get that trying to fight and claw for those extra yards. Sucked, but sure as heck doesn't deserve a thread like these. Some crazy posts floating around for a preseason game, lol

[House]

Whoever 50 is. He wanted it more lol.

[Jason_]

Lol because I feel drop doesn't describe accurately how that particular play went down, that's all. To someone who didn't see the play "drop" makes it seem like a ball you catch 100 times out of 100.

Who knows maybe I'm just stubborn

 

I think there's a lot of stubborn around here....myself included lol

 

another thing too though...to call it a drop takes away from the great play made by the defender.  If he hadn't gotten his arm in there and punched the ball out then that was a TD.  

[House]

Yeah was at the game and from watching it live and from the replay at the game it looked like the defender just came in and popped it loose. He was runni g hard with the ball. Think he spun and the guy came in and popped him. Sometimes you get that trying to fight and claw for those extra yards. Sucked, but sure as heck doesn't deserve a thread like these. Some crazy posts floating around for a preseason game, lol

Haven't you heard? Preseason is the new playoffs. Where have you been?

[NewEra]

Call me silly but that looks like a pretty damn good defensive play. Think Fleener is the new whipping boy. Not to many players come down with that ball period.

[NewEra]

Haven't you heard? Preseason is the new playoffs. Where have you been?

Was to busy drinking having a good time! Love watching the game from down there in the main concourse.

[House]

Was to busy drinking having a good time! Love watching the game from down there in the main concourse.

My cousin at the game had one positive spin to the big loss.

"Just a better reason to keep drinking."

[GoColts8818]

Lol because I feel drop doesn't describe accurately how that particular play went down, that's all. To someone who didn't see the play "drop" makes it seem like ball you catch 100 time out of 100.

Who knows maybe I'm just stubborn

I think the later part is we are both stubborn.  I also think you hit on a key point there at the start here, I don't think a drop means a pass that you can catch a 100 times out of 100.  To me it's a pass you get your hands on and should have caught and didn't for whatever reason.  No question Fleener's pass wasn't one that was going to be caught a 100 times out of 100 but I do think it's a catch you do expect a NFL starter to make even if the Bills player made a nice play. 

 

All and all I think we pretty much agree on most of this other than a term.  We agree that Fleener probably should have caught the ball even if it wasn't the easiest catch in the world and that Fleener is going to be just fine even without that catch.  I think we agree on the fumble, Fleener just needs to make sure he gets both hands on the ball in the future which I am sure once that's pointed out to him in the film room he's going to make sure he does.  Sometimes it takes a play like this to learn that lesson, I look at Luck last year and when he kept trying to flip the ball to an open receiver last year as he was getting sacked and everyone saying sooner or later he's going to get picked off or fumble and sure enough in the Titans game he did turn the ball over and then he never did it again.  It's much better that a play like that comes in the pre-season than during a game whose out come really does matter to learn that lesson. 

[Jason_]

again, agree to disagree, I am going to side with the guys who played with the NFL on that one.  If you disagree like I keep telling you that's fine.  Like I keep saying we aren't going to change each other's mind on this so why don't we stop trying?  When you keep insisting you are right that keeps trying.  Sorry I don't think you are.  With that said why are you going to the point to debate this much over a term if we agree on the larger point?  It's pretty much one of us going the sky is blue and the other one going no it's sky blue or I am more right than you.  It's silly on both our parts so why don't we just leave the debate here?

 

More power to ya...I'm gonna side with my own 2 eyes. ;)

[Jason_]

 It's much better that a play like that comes in the pre-season than during a game whose out come really does matter to learn that lesson. 

 

On this I am in absolute agreement.  

[NewEra]

My cousin at the game had one positive spin to the big loss.

"Just a better reason to keep drinking."

Heck yeah, was having a good time. Starters looked really good aside for the first two early runs. Went down hill after Harnish went in but all good for the teams first action. Get it out of their system before the regular season starts. Babtism by fire!