Coby Fleener

[Nostrils]

How many times did Luck handle the ball last year?  Not really fair to compare the 2 situations, especially with Luck taking so many blindsided shots where he really had no chance thanks to the O line. Luck also made a pro bowl last year, did Fleener?

 

Fleener had nobody to blame for his poor season last year but himself.  You claim so many people are down on him, i will say just as many if not more love making excuses for the guy.  It wasn't Arian's fault that he had trouble getting open and then had trouble with drops when he did get open. As for being in love with where he was picked, i was neutral on it. I didn't love it and i didn't hate it.  I think he has the potential to be very very good, i also question his toughness however. Some of the complaints he is getting today is because those are some of the things he struggled with last season as well.  Mainly holding onto the football, especially in traffic. It was only one game so plenty of time to improve, but i don't think the question marks are unreasonable at this point.  I can guarantee if that had been a regular season game yesterday though that the criticism would be much much worse.  Those were big plays.

the more u write the more it all makes sense, you have lost it, get a life

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

The fumble was simply unacceptable. I see some making excuses saying he was blasted by 2 guys as if somehow that would make the fumble any less terrible. But if you actually watch the play, the guy who causes the fumble is the tackler directly in front of Fleener who he seen the whole time. The guy that comes in from the backside is not the one who caused it.  Just terrible ball security from Fleener, he had the ball in one arm the entire time.  The TD that was missed was not as blatant, but still needs to be caught if Fleener wants to be a great tight end. He has to secure the ball quicker.

That mustache Fleener was rockin' was unacceptable.  Luck needs to show Coby how a real man grows facial hair.

[indy1888]

hahahahaha... get out there and show us how it's done then...

 

Ok, right after you, and everyone else on this forum.

 

Weak sauce son.

[crazycolt1]

How many times did Luck handle the ball last year?  Not really fair to compare the 2 situations, especially with Luck taking so many blindsided shots where he really had no chance thanks to the O line. Luck also made a pro bowl last year, did Fleener?

 

Fleener had nobody to blame for his poor season last year but himself.  You claim so many people are down on him, i will say just as many if not more love making excuses for the guy.  It wasn't Arian's fault that he had trouble getting open and then had trouble with drops when he did get open. As for being in love with where he was picked, i was neutral on it. I didn't love it and i didn't hate it.  I think he has the potential to be very very good, i also question his toughness however. Some of the complaints he is getting today is because those are some of the things he struggled with last season as well.  Mainly holding onto the football, especially in traffic. It was only one game so plenty of time to improve, but i don't think the question marks are unreasonable at this point.  I can guarantee if that had been a regular season game yesterday though that the criticism would be much much worse.  Those were big plays.

You completely missed the point of my comment. Luck making the pro bowl had zero to do with this subject. The only reason people are making any excuses for Fleener is the complete reality of what is and was expected of Fleener. If you would like to go back and re read my comments of Fleener none of them were off base. With all of the other problems I noticed in yesterdays game Fleeners problem was small in comparison. But it is Fleener who got a whole thread on one bad play. 

[crazycolt1]

No, all I'm saying is that players that become ball droppers or are known ball droppers end up in 2nd string city.  Alligator arms, not sure yet.... a lot of people on here used that term a lot last year.  Let's just say what he does is NOT media friendly (fumble, drop sure TD passes, drop easy catches), he also showed a bit of injury susceptibility. Look, I think the kid could be a keeper, but he's got to change his ways.  He's got to be able to take really big hits - he is a big target on the defenses radar so he is going to get punished pretty good.  Is there a process to inject DNA into the hands of Fleener from a donor party such as let's say Marvin Harrison?  They did some pretty amazing things in the movie "Splice",

The only point I was attempting to make is you speculated something that is 3 years away when none of us know the end results. Peace.

[ColtStrong2]

The fumble was simply unacceptable. I see some making excuses saying he was blasted by 2 guys as if somehow that would make the fumble any less terrible. But if you actually watch the play, the guy who causes the fumble is the tackler directly in front of Fleener who he seen the whole time. The guy that comes in from the backside is not the one who caused it. Just terrible ball security from Fleener, he had the ball in one arm the entire time. The TD that was missed was not as blatant, but still needs to be caught if Fleener wants to be a great tight end. He has to secure the ball quicker.

I'm glad i don't watch games with you.

[indy1888]

You completely missed the point of my comment. Luck making the pro bowl had zero to do with this subject. The only reason people are making any excuses for Fleener is the complete reality of what is and was expected of Fleener. If you would like to go back and re read my comments of Fleener none of them were off base. With all of the other problems I noticed in yesterdays game Fleeners problem was small in comparison. But it is Fleener who got a whole thread on one bad play. 

 

I didn't miss the point at all.  You were the one who originally brought up Luck by the way, not me. 

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Good lord people seriously need to find something better to do than constantly bash on Coby. It's like all of you are his ex-girlfriends or something.

[indy1888]

I'm glad i don't watch games with you.

 

So am I.

[YOUR GM]

Fleener had nobody to blame for his poor season last year but himself.  You claim so many people are down on him, i will say just as many if not more love making excuses for the guy.  It wasn't Arian's fault that he had trouble getting open and then had trouble with drops when he did get open. 

 

Actually it partially was Arians fault. His offense is all about the receivers and the deep ball. His agenda to push the ball down the field on every snap takes presidence over everything else. Fleener should've been running deep patterns with the receivers, but because he's a TE, Arians felt his only purpose was to block and be a safety valve occassionally. Fleener was totally misused last year and I think this season will prove it more than anything else

[Jason_]

That mustache Fleener was rockin' was unacceptable.  Luck needs to show Coby how a real man grows facial hair.

 

LOL...one of the few uses of the word "unacceptable" in this thread that I agree with.  Coby definitely needs to shave that 'stache

[chad72]

But it is Fleener who got a whole thread on one bad play. 

 

Actually, the thread was started on a positive note because that person felt appropriate to shine a few bright spots on Fleener. However, it has derailed into this, as I expected .

 

As long as people explain their points, I am fine with varying opinions on both sides.

[chrisfarley]

The only point I was attempting to make is you speculated something that is 3 years away when none of us know the end results. Peace.

true dat

[crazycolt1]

My expectations are unacceptable because i would like to see a ball carrier secure the ball properly as he prepares to take on a tackler?

 

What is unacceptable about it?  You think the coaching staff felt good about how he fumbled that ball away too? 

Maybe if we kidnapped Fleener and put him up in front of a firing squad that would work?  How about a hanging? We haven't had one of those for awhile. If we didn't want to get our hands dirty we could hire a hitman. But then we would have to hire a hitman to take care of the hitman. That process can get a little expensive. 

[SteelCityColt]

Actually it partially was Arians fault. His offense is all about the receivers and the deep ball. His agenda to push the ball down the field on every snap takes presidence over everything else. Fleener should've been running deep patterns with the receivers, but because he's a TE, Arians felt his only purpose was to block and be a safety valve occassionally. Fleener was totally misused last year and I think this season will prove it more than anything else

Ahhh FJC/HBA I've missed your posting.

[IndyTrav]

First off, every single one of us here WANTS Fleener to succeed. This 'hate' word getting tossed around is absurd. 

 

Secondly, I think all of us can admit, that at this moment, Fleener is at best our 2nd best TE. And I dont think its completely unreasonable to consider him at best, our 5th best receiving option. (Wayne, Hilton, DHB, Allen, RBs? Personally I have him on equal footing as Brazil)....

 

The discourse seems to be with a few of us who are concerned with what he HAS done. While the others seem to be caught up on what he COULD do.....Most of everyones opinion seems to be based on his 'amazing' pro day work out, and are enamored with his size and speed. 6-6 247 is pretty impressive, but that doesnt mean a thing. For every Jimmy Graham (6-7 260 Basketball Star) there are the Shiancoes (6-4 250) and the Celeks (6-4 261)....

 

Could Fleener reach this potential? Sure he absolutely can. And we all want him to...Has he come close yet? Not even a little..... 

[BrentMc11]

Ahhh FJC/HBA I've missed your posting.

I have missed my buddy FJC for way too long!!  

[Holden89]

First off, every single one of us here WANTS Fleener to succeed. This 'hate' word getting tossed around is absurd. 

 

Secondly, I think all of us can admit, that at this moment, Fleener is at best our 2nd best TE. And I dont think its completely unreasonable to consider him at best, our 5th best receiving option. (Wayne, Hilton, DHB, Allen, RBs? Personally I have him on equal footing as Brazil)....

 

The discourse seems to be with a few of us who are concerned with what he HAS done. While the others seem to be caught up on what he COULD do.....Most of everyones opinion seems to be based on his 'amazing' pro day work out, and are enamored with his size and speed. 6-6 247 is pretty impressive, but that doesnt mean a thing. For every Jimmy Graham (6-7 260 Basketball Star) there are the Shiancoes (6-4 250) and the Celeks (6-4 261)....

 

Could Fleener reach this potential? Sure he absolutely can. And we all want him to...Has he come close yet? Not even a little..... 

 

I'm very concerned with what he HAS done.  All he's done is have a very typical season for a rookie Tight-End, then looked pretty good in a Pre-Season game aside of a single miscue (the fumble). He proved he could play in the league last year. No he didn't tear it up, but a young Tight-End rarely does. Also, we've heard a lot of praise about him coming from Training camp.  I just don't get the negative disposition towards him because he wasn't an All-Star the second he saw the field as an NFL player. Of course he hasn't reached his potential yet, he's only played for ONE YEAR.  I don't think Luck reached his potential last year, either.  Why don't we all gang up on him?

 

Also, no.  Frankly I don't admit that Fleener is our 2nd best TE. Not yet. Yes, Allen had better numbers last year, but that was by virtue of him being a bigger player who could block better (the one knock on Fleener coming out of college) so he got more opportunities to see the field.

[BOTT]

First off, every single one of us here WANTS Fleener to succeed. This 'hate' word getting tossed around is absurd. 

 

Secondly, I think all of us can admit, that at this moment, Fleener is at best our 2nd best TE. And I dont think its completely unreasonable to consider him at best, our 5th best receiving option. (Wayne, Hilton, DHB, Allen, RBs? Personally I have him on equal footing as Brazil)....

 

The discourse seems to be with a few of us who are concerned with what he HAS done. While the others seem to be caught up on what he COULD do.....Most of everyones opinion seems to be based on his 'amazing' pro day work out, and are enamored with his size and speed. 6-6 247 is pretty impressive, but that doesnt mean a thing. For every Jimmy Graham (6-7 260 Basketball Star) there are the Shiancoes (6-4 250) and the Celeks (6-4 261)....

 

Could Fleener reach this potential? Sure he absolutely can. And we all want him to...Has he come close yet? Not even a little.....

People get caught up in what Fleener could do because he hasn't even played a full season yet. I get that overreacting nonsense is part of the forum, but it gets ridiculous.

[YOUR GM]

Ahhh FJC/HBA I've missed your posting.

 

lol, I'm not FireJimCaldwell. I used to be 'ahf321' 

 

I guess I should clarify that so there's no more confusion. Sorry

[IndyTrav]

I'm very concerned with what he HAS done.  All he's done is have a very typical season for a rookie Tight-End, then looked pretty good in a Pre-Season game aside of a single miscue (the fumble). He proved he could play in the league last year. No he didn't tear it up, but a young Tight-End rarely does. Also, we've heard a lot of praise about him coming from Training camp.  I just don't get the negative disposition towards him because he wasn't an All-Star the second he saw the field as an NFL player. Of course he hasn't reached his potential yet, he's only played for ONE YEAR.  I don't think Luck reached his potential last year, either.  Why don't we all gang up on him?

 

Also, no.  Frankly I don't admit that Fleener is our 2nd best TE. Not yet. Yes, Allen had better numbers last year, but that was by virtue of him being a bigger player who could block better (the one knock on Fleener coming out of college) so he got more opportunities to see the field.

 

 

No one gangs up on Luck, because we all saw what he could do. He proved it throughout last season. So did TY. So did Allen. Every single one of our rookies, had a handful of games, a handful of plays, where we as Colts fans thought "Thats our guy!" "Thats why we got him" etc etc. You cannot say Fleener had one of those games, where you shouted out "Ya Fleener, thats the potential we all saw".

 

Again, no one is asking him to be 'an all star' just show us those few flashes of brilliance that every single one of our other rookies showed last season. Ballard, Hilton, Luck, Brazil, Allen. 

 

And your last comment is kinda funny to me. "Allens not our best TE, he just played more, had better numbers, and is a better blocker, that doesnt make him better than Fleener".......really? The guy who was a rookie too, played more, caught more passes, had more yards, more TDs, and was a better blocker. That same guy didnt prove he was better??

[indy1888]

First off, every single one of us here WANTS Fleener to succeed. This 'hate' word getting tossed around is absurd. 

 

Secondly, I think all of us can admit, that at this moment, Fleener is at best our 2nd best TE. And I dont think its completely unreasonable to consider him at best, our 5th best receiving option. (Wayne, Hilton, DHB, Allen, RBs? Personally I have him on equal footing as Brazil)....

 

The discourse seems to be with a few of us who are concerned with what he HAS done. While the others seem to be caught up on what he COULD do.....Most of everyones opinion seems to be based on his 'amazing' pro day work out, and are enamored with his size and speed. 6-6 247 is pretty impressive, but that doesnt mean a thing. For every Jimmy Graham (6-7 260 Basketball Star) there are the Shiancoes (6-4 250) and the Celeks (6-4 261)....

 

Could Fleener reach this potential? Sure he absolutely can. And we all want him to...Has he come close yet? Not even a little..... 

 

Excellent post. You nailed it.  It seems any criticism of Fleener is labeled as "hate".  It's ridiculous really. I want Fleener to be a great tight end because that would mean it's helping out the Colts greatly. I just don't think discussing his play on what he HAS shown is a crime.   Like it or not the ball has hit the ground far too often with Fleener so far in his career.

[MrJaffer]

="BLOODontheTRACKS" post="533413" timestamp="1376324999"]

Care to back that statement up with any evidence?

[BOTT]

="BLOODontheTRACKS" post="533413" timestamp="1376324999"]

Care to back that statement up with any evidence?

Yes, he finished in the bottom half of eligible tight ends with a drop rate of around 10.3. From personal observation, he just couldn't hang on to the ball through contact. I noticed this in preseason last year and I never really saw him improve on looking comfortable catching over the middle.

Look at his stats after the shoulder injury. He played scared out there after that imo, which quite honestly is understandable as a rookie. Listen, as a colts fan I'm rooting for the guy as he has tons of talent. Too often though people look his potential while overlooking his on field production. I just flat out would rather have more of Fleeners targets go to Allen because I think he is a surehanded beast out there.

[MrJaffer]

Apology accepted.

[BOTT]

Excellent post. You nailed it. It seems any criticism of Fleener is labeled as "hate". It's ridiculous really. I want Fleener to be a great tight end because that would mean it's helping out the Colts greatly. I just don't think discussing his play on what he HAS shown is a crime. Like it or not the ball has hit the ground far too often with Fleener so far in his career.

Because a lot of it is unsubstantiated bull

He's soft

He's a mamas boy

He was over drafted

He was only drafted due to Luck connection

If people just criticized his hands and his inline blocking it wouldn't be such an issue.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Nadine
masked profanity

[BPM_Colt]

Fleener will be fine. He battled injuries last year and wasn't used the way he could have been.

 

Expect big things from him as some continue to bash

[Holden89]

No one gangs up on Luck, because we all saw what he could do. He proved it throughout last season. So did TY. So did Allen. Every single one of our rookies, had a handful of games, a handful of plays, where we as Colts fans thought "Thats our guy!" "Thats why we got him" etc etc. You cannot say Fleener had one of those games, where you shouted out "Ya Fleener, thats the potential we all saw".

 

Again, no one is asking him to be 'an all star' just show us those few flashes of brilliance that every single one of our other rookies showed last season. Ballard, Hilton, Luck, Brazil, Allen. 

 

And your last comment is kinda funny to me. "Allens not our best TE, he just played more, had better numbers, and is a better blocker, that doesnt make him better than Fleener".......really? The guy who was a rookie too, played more, caught more passes, had more yards, more TDs, and was a better blocker. That same guy didnt prove he was better??

 

Yup.  That's exactly what I'm saying.  Thanks for trying to make it sound dumb!  What I meant is, it's too early to tell who the better player is/will be based off of one. year. of. production. Coming out of college, Allen was the better blocker. No denying that. However, that's why he saw the field more. So of course his numbers were better. Don't get me wrong here, I love Allen, too!  I think he's great! He had a tremendous rookie year.  I'm just not willing to bash Fleener so much just because he didn't start out as hot.

[Nostrils]

Ok, right after you, and everyone else on this forum.

 

Weak sauce son.

 

for someone that's whining like a female that sure was a big man response, you got me.

[SteelCityColt]

lol, I'm not FireJimCaldwell. I used to be 'ahf321' 

 

I guess I should clarify that so there's no more confusion. Sorry

My bad, what with the name and avatar I just assumed.

[CanuckColt]

Fleener is NOT a good TE until he DOES hang onto the ball and not fumble, and he DOES hang onto the ball in traffic for a TD.

I don't understand the hype around this guy...Allen would have secured BOTH those plays.

[GoColts8818]

I like Fleener and I think he's going to have a good season and I think we saw flashes of why he will have a good season this year. 

 

With that said, he did make two mistakes yesterday.  I fully agree credit should be given to the Bills players for making plays in their own right but the fumble was helped by the fact he didn't put two hands on the ball.  That's something they start teaching you when you first start playing football, put two hands on the ball.  So while the Bills player made a nice play to help cause the fumble Fleener did make a mistake and it's one that can easily be corrected with some film study this week. 

 

The other was the dropped touchdown catch.  I didn't see this live and after reading comments on here and listening to media folks talk about it I looked it up today and it was a drop.  Yes nice play by the Bills player to knock that ball out but that's a pass he could have caught and I am not buying that it takes a special player to make that kind of catch that some have argued. 

 

Either way those are just two mistakes that's all, it's not killing Fleener to say hey he has a couple of things he can clean up.  Killing him would be demanding he should be cut or saying he was a bad draft pick (which I know people have said about him in the past) which is not what I am saying here.  I am just saying hey he needs to clean these things up and if he does what I think is going to be a good season could be a special season for him.  Honestly Fleener reminds me a lot of Garcon in the respect that you loved him on one play and were frustrated by him on the next.  The good news is that most of the issues I see with Fleener are what should be simple things to clean up.  So I am not ready to raise any kind of alarm of him. 

[indy1888]

the more u write the more it all makes sense, you have lost it, get a life

 

Says the guy/girl who looks like they missed more then a few English classes back in the day.

 

BTW, calling me names via private messaging is so manly and tough.

[Jason_]

Fleener is NOT a good TE until he DOES hang onto the ball and not fumble, and he DOES hang onto the ball in traffic for a TD.

I don't understand the hype around this guy...Allen would have secured BOTH those plays.

 

Your golden boy Allen will drop a ball and lose a fumble every once in a while.  He had a fumble last year.  He's not perfect either.  And he doesn't really have the level of athleticism that Fleener does so it's less likely that Allen would even be able to get into either of those situations in the first place.

[CanuckColt]

Your golden boy Allen will drop a ball and lose a fumble every once in a while.  He had a fumble last year.  He's not perfect either.  And he doesn't really have the level of athleticism that Fleener does so it's less likely that Allen would even be able to get into either of those situations in the first place.

Fleener has accomplished very little in the league so far.  Allen has accomplished a lot more.

We cannot say that Fleener is good until he actually does play consistently.

So far, I see a big awkward looking dude who struggles to get separation, has average hands and does not know how to secure the ball.

What it is all about is this...fans do not want to admit their high 2nd rounder will turn out to be average or less.

[dgambill]

Like most I think it was a mixed bag from him.....good moments and moments that you can't let happen...I was underwhelmed by pretty much everyone though..so maybe I'm being harsh.

[House]

I like Fleener and I think he's going to have a good season and I think we saw flashes of why he will have a good season this year.

With that said, he did make two mistakes yesterday. I fully agree credit should be given to the Bills players for making plays in their own right but the fumble was helped by the fact he didn't put two hands on the ball. That's something they start teaching you when you first start playing football, put two hands on the ball. So while the Bills player made a nice play to help cause the fumble Fleener did make a mistake and it's one that can easily be corrected with some film study this week.

The other was the dropped touchdown catch. I didn't see this live and after reading comments on here and listening to media folks talk about it I looked it up today and it was a drop. Yes nice play by the Bills player to knock that ball out but that's a pass he could have caught and I am not buying that it takes a special player to make that kind of catch that some have argued.

Either way those are just two mistakes that's all, it's not killing Fleener to say hey he has a couple of things he can clean up. Killing him would be demanding he should be cut or saying he was a bad draft pick (which I know people have said about him in the past) which is not what I am saying here. I am just saying hey he needs to clean these things up and if he does what I think is going to be a good season could be a special season for him. Honestly Fleener reminds me a lot of Garcon in the respect that you loved him on one play and were frustrated by him on the next. The good news is that most of the issues I see with Fleener are what should be simple things to clean up. So I am not ready to raise any kind of alarm of him.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfcwest&id=46758&src=desktop

"Hank Gargiulo of ESPN Stats & Information passed along the written standard our game charters rely upon to reduce subjectivity.

This standard says drops are "incomplete passes where the receiver SHOULD have caught the pass with ORDINARY effort."

Basically, we're talking about blatant drops, not the ones where your old man leans over and says anything that grazed the receiver anywhere was a drop in his day.

"Only use this if the receiver is 100 percent at fault and no one else can be blamed for the incompletion," ESPN tells its game charters. "Pass interference that wasn't called/passes thrown just outside the receiver's reach, etc., are NOT drops."

^ Fleener's almost TD wasn't a drop.

[BOTT]

Fleener has accomplished very little in the league so far.  Allen has accomplished a lot more.

We cannot say that Fleener is good until he actually does play consistently.

So far, I see a big awkward looking dude who struggles to get separation, has average hands and does not know how to secure the ball.

What it is all about is this...fans do not want to admit their high 2nd rounder will turn out to be average or less.

......or some fans realize careers aren't defined by their first 12 games

[GoColts8818]

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfcwest&id=46758&src=desktop

"Hank Gargiulo of ESPN Stats & Information passed along the written standard our game charters rely upon to reduce subjectivity.

This standard says drops are "incomplete passes where the receiver SHOULD have caught the pass with ORDINARY effort."

Basically, we're talking about blatant drops, not the ones where your old man leans over and says anything that grazed the receiver anywhere was a drop in his day.

"Only use this if the receiver is 100 percent at fault and no one else can be blamed for the incompletion," ESPN tells its game charters. "Pass interference that wasn't called/passes thrown just outside the receiver's reach, etc., are NOT drops."

^ Fleener's almost TD wasn't a drop.

It wasn't a blatant drop, like I said credit to the Bills player for making a play on the ball too, but it was one he should have caught.  He had both hands on it with both feet down in the endzone those are ones you have to come up with.  I am not the only one who thinks this either, Jim Sorgi said it yesterday on the radio and just about every "expert" I've heard on the radio today said he should have caught the pass.  If you disagree with it fine I can agree to disagree over it.

 

Again, just something Fleener can clean up and I am sure he's going to work on. 

[Jason_]

Fleener has accomplished very little in the league so far.  Allen has accomplished a lot more.

We cannot say that Fleener is good until he actually does play consistently.

So far, I see a big awkward looking dude who struggles to get separation, has average hands and does not know how to secure the ball.

What it is all about is this...fans do not want to admit their high 2nd rounder will turn out to be average or less.

 

26 catches, 281 yards for 10.8 ypc and 2 TD's vs. 45 catches, 521 yds for 11.6 ypc and 3 TD's.  You can really say that one is "very little" and the other is "a lot more"?  Were you able to keep a straight face while doing so?  Their numbers are not that dissimilar, especially considering that Fleener missed time due to injury...of course I imagine the fact that he missed games to injury means he's also an inferior player...somehow. 

 

And I think this could just as easily be about fans who don't want to admit that Fleener might have actually been a good pic, possibly even better than "insert name of player said disgruntled fan was hoping we would have drafted instead of Fleener"