Coby Fleener's 1st year production vs the 1st year production of other top TE's in the league.

[bluebambi]

No I don't, while Arians wanted us to throw the ball deep it's Luck that had to make the decision of who to throw the ball to and who not to throw the ball on plays. There were many plays last year where he would have multipal receivers open on a play and he would elect to throw to the deep guy on a lot of them. That's his choice not the coach. Maybe one of the better examples of this was caught on video with audio in the Packers highlights from last year. We were driving for a score and Luck made a throw across his body to Reggie in double coverage in the back on the endzone to try to get the touchdown and passed on a wide open Donald Brown who would have in all likely hood gotten a first down but not the touchdown. As soon as Luck got to the sidelines Arians grabs him and says "Never throw that pass again." and then points out "You have Donald underneath, if you throw it to him he catches it and is down at the three and we are going in for the score on the next play.

At the end of the day it's probably a mix of both not all Arians and not all Luck. However, we can't ignore that Luck is the one who would pull the trigger and make the decision on where to go with the football so he had a hand in it. I would agree though that Arians offense lent it's self to go deep more often than most, however I also think to just blame all of Luck's deep passes on Arians offense is also a mistake.

Like I said before younger QBs in general tend to like going down the field more than the dink and dunk offense and frankly it's harder to run a dink and dunk offense so I am not concerned at all over Luck doing that as a rookie. I am sure like most younger QBs he will develop and grow and throw more dink and dunk plays as time goes on and I also do think that Pep's offense will lend it's self to more dinking and dunking than Arians did.

Wasn't it A touchdown pass to Hilton not Wayne when Arians said that to luck ?

[Jim H.]

To all you "Gronk" lovers out there.  As much as you all seem to have man-love for him, you need to move on - he's never going to get back to the level he was --BRIEFLY--  prior to all his medical probs. 

 

Of course, he may have a future in WWF or as a ladies-night out attraction at some club.  But, that's about all he is psychologically suited for,  post-football.

 

Now, back to talking about the Colts, please.

 

:^)

[Jason_]

and its up 2 fleener to run his routes correctly and not drop the ball more than he catches it this year. Gotta be able 2 block as a TE. Gronk is the best and he is also a fantastic blocker.

btw Bradshaw ia the very best blocking running back in the NFL so u better believe that was a big reason ythe Colts got him. The offense starts with the QB and he has to have time 2 b effective. The running backs and te's are also a part of the protection.

 

Fleener caught 26 passes and, if Gavin's information was correct, he was targeted 48 times.  Therefore, last year he caught the ball more than he dropped the ball.  Also, not even close to all of the 22 incompletions to him were his fault.  Luck overthrew Fleener many, many times.  In fact, here you go...you'll have to scroll down the page to find Fleener:

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2012/

 

Here are Fleener's numbers:

 

116 Coby Fleener TE Ind 26 3 48 54

6.25%

 

That's 26 catches, 3 drops, 48 targets and a target percentage of 54%.  So yes that is a low target percentage but again, there were only 3 drops.  Now, some of the remaining imcompletions could still have been his fault but it's nearly impossible for us fans to determine that because we don't know precisely what play was called, what route he was supposed to run, how shallow or deep he was supposed to run his route etc etc.  

[Gavin]

To all you "Gronk" lovers out there.  As much as you all seem to have man-love for him, you need to move on - he's never going to get back to the level he was --BRIEFLY--  prior to all his medical probs. 

 

Of course, he may have a future in WWF or as a ladies-night out attraction at some club.  But, that's about all he is psychologically suited for,  post-football.

 

Now, back to talking about the Colts, please.

 

:^)

3 straight years of double digit td's is not exactly what I would call brief, I would call that consistent. Im no "Gronk Lover" but he is only 24, I think the chances of him returning to form is ALOT better then lets say he was 30. He is certainly a player you must game plan for

[Rich Cannon]

Am I the only one who thinks that Dwayne Allen is way ahead of Fleener on virtually every level besides speed?.  I know everyone on this board has high hope for Fleener as do I.  But I feel as if eveyone is riding the coat tails of Fleener on a less than steller rookie year injuries or not.  He was great in college but needs drastic improvement especially on his hands. 

[TKnight24]

Am I the only one who thinks that Dwayne Allen is way ahead of Fleener on virtually every level besides speed?. I know everyone on this boars has high hope for Fleener as do I. But I feel as if eveyone is riding the coat tails of Fleener on a less than steller rookie year injuries or not. He was great in college but needs drastic improvement especially on his hands.

I do believe he only had 3 drops last season. Could be wrong. But no one catches every pass thrown to them sooo yeah.

And Dwayne Allen was a benefit of Arians system because he was doing the SAME thing he was doing at Clemson. Blocking, lining up at TE, lining up in thr backfield, and everywhere else. That's why he was so effective this past season more than Fleener was

[Rich Cannon]

I do believe he only had 3 drops last season. Could be wrong. But no one catches every pass thrown to them sooo yeah.

And Dwayne Allen was a benefit of Arians system because he was doing the SAME thing he was doing at Clemson. Blocking, lining up at TE, lining up in thr backfield, and everywhere else. That's why he was so effective this past season more than Fleener was

 

Allen is just a better player than Fleener at this point and took the starting job after Fleener was injured and kept it for a reason. Allen is a better blocker, runs better routes, has better hands NO PROMOTIONAL POSTING ON THE SITE2013-articles/march/historic-drop-rate-former-rookie-colts-wrs.html I will give the speed nod to Fleener easily. 

 

Allen on 45 catches 2 Drops

Fleener 26 catches 3 Drops

 

I just feel Fleener has showed nothing and a majority of the people on this board make it seem like hes the second coming.  Just an opinion. 

[TKnight24]

Allen is just a better player than Fleener at this point and took the starting job after Fleener was injured and kept it for a reason. Allen is a better blocker, runs better routes, has better hands NO PROMOTIONAL POSTING ON THE SITE2013-articles/march/historic-drop-rate-former-rookie-colts-wrs.html I will give the speed nod to Fleener easily.

Allen on 45 catches 2 Drops

Fleener 26 catches 3 Drops

I just feel Fleener has showed nothing and a majority of the people on this board make it seem like hes the second coming. Just an opinion.

But that was only his first year in the league. And people only had high expectations cause the round he was taken in. Since he didn't have staggering numbers people have already thrown him under the bus

[Rich Cannon]

But that was only his first year in the league. And people only had high expectations cause the round he was taken in. Since he didn't have staggering numbers people have already thrown him under the bus

" Coby Fleener's 1st year production vs the 1st year production of other top TE's in the league" Is the name of this thread, imo this insinuates that Colby Fleener has the potential to be a top tight end in this league.  For that matter any TE on any NFL team has that potential to be great or a top TE in this league.  I just dont think hes shown enough for everyone to be jumping out of there seats talking him up.  Lets see what he can do before we all go bonkers.  Am I rooting for him most def.  Just a little annoyuing seeing so many people talk up a guy that really hasnt shown anything.  Now if you want to talk up Vick Ballard who was 3rd in rookie rushing and picked in the 5th round be my guest.  Hes shown something. 

[Jason_]

Allen is just a better player than Fleener at this point and took the starting job after Fleener was injured and kept it for a reason. Allen is a better blocker, runs better routes, has better hands NO PROMOTIONAL POSTING ON THE SITE2013-articles/march/historic-drop-rate-former-rookie-colts-wrs.html I will give the speed nod to Fleener easily. 

 

Allen on 45 catches 2 Drops

Fleener 26 catches 3 Drops

 

I just feel Fleener has showed nothing and a majority of the people on this board make it seem like hes the second coming.  Just an opinion. 

 

And many disagree that he showed  nothing.  He has a ton of potential and he showed some of that last year.  He didn't blow anyone away but he also didn't have a bad year either all things considered.  Many people make it sound like he's a bust already because he didn't put up elite numbers in his rookie year, and that is just as incorrect as people saying he will be the next great TE.   I do believe he has the potential to be the next great TE but it's all up to him as to whether he will live up to that potential or not.  Time will tell.  But it's way to early to crown him OR to bury him.

[Rich Cannon]

And many disagree that he showed  nothing.  He has a ton of potential and he showed some of that last year.  He didn't blow anyone away but he also didn't have a bad year either all things considered.  Many people make it sound like he's a bust already because he didn't put up elite numbers in his rookie year, and that is just as incorrect as people saying he will be the next great TE.   I do believe he has the potential to be the next great TE but it's all up to him as to whether he will live up to that potential or not.  Time will tell.  But it's way to early to crown him OR to bury him.

 

I guess thats fair Jay, this is one of things where we agree to disagree. 

[SilentHill]

Allen's numbers should be on that list.

[Dustin]

Allen's numbers should be on that list.

32.6 YPG, 11.6 YPR, 3 TDs, and 2.8 RPG in 16 games.

[Superman]

" Coby Fleener's 1st year production vs the 1st year production of other top TE's in the league" Is the name of this thread, imo this insinuates that Colby Fleener has the potential to be a top tight end in this league.  For that matter any TE on any NFL team has that potential to be great or a top TE in this league.  I just dont think hes shown enough for everyone to be jumping out of there seats talking him up.  Lets see what he can do before we all go bonkers.  Am I rooting for him most def.  Just a little annoyuing seeing so many people talk up a guy that really hasnt shown anything.  

 

I think the point of the thread is to defend Coby Fleener from people who are saying that he's a bust on the basis of a not-so-great rookie season. I don't think it's to insinuate that he's going to be a top tight end, whether anyone believes he has that potential or not.

 

But when you compare his rookie season to the rookie years for other tight ends, you'll see that his lack of production isn't really a cause for alarm, as even the great tight ends had no-so-great rookie seasons. In other words, don't write Fleener off (or any other rookie tight end, for that matter) simply because he didn't blow the doors off the building. Not even the great tight ends did.

[james_zeigler1994]

I saw Allen catching more passes than he dropped last year.

[teresa0955]

can someone tell me why i can't start a new topic?

 

thanks

[Jason_]

I saw Allen catching more passes than he dropped last year.

 

I saw Fleener doing the same thing ;)

[BOTT]

and its up 2 fleener to run his routes correctly and not drop the ball more than he catches it this year. Gotta be able 2 block as a TE.

Somebody should have told Dallas Clark

[indy1888]

Fleener will be fine, the bad OL affected more than just Luck and the passing game.  It also forced TE's to stay tight and block.   

 

BTW,     Fleener and Allen both had butterfinger hands last season.   I don't get why Fleener is the only TE catching heck.    

 

Because Allen did not have butterfinger hands, even though you claim he did.  That's probably why,

 

That and the fact that Allen was a significantly better overall player last year.

[braveheartcolt]

Why do some people find it impossible to critique players without comparing them to others? Allen could become the greatest TE of all time, but we are talking about Fleener. To so extensively rate any player so dramatically against another after their rookie season is verging on laughable.

 

But I can hear it coming.....if Fleener raises his game this season it will all be because the OC favoured him etc,

 

I don't care who is better, as long as they compliment each other and contribute to a GREAT OFFENSE.

[rittdk01]

Fleener caught 26 passes and, if Gavin's information was correct, he was targeted 48 times.  Therefore, last year he caught the ball more than he dropped the ball.  Also, not even close to all of the 22 incompletions to him were his fault.  Luck overthrew Fleener many, many times.  In fact, here you go...you'll have to scroll down the page to find Fleener:

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2012/

 

Here are Fleener's numbers:

 

116

Coby Fleener

TE

Ind

26

3

48

54

6.25%

 

That's 26 catches, 3 drops, 48 targets and a target percentage of 54%.  So yes that is a low target percentage but again, there were only 3 drops.  Now, some of the remaining imcompletions could still have been his fault but it's nearly impossible for us fans to determine that because we don't know precisely what play was called, what route he was supposed to run, how shallow or deep he was supposed to run his route etc etc.

lol I wasnt being literal about the 50% drops. If he dropped 25% he would have been gone and Saunders would have his position : )

He ran his routes badly and didnt get into position like a giant te is supposed to. The drive before he scored his first touchdown Luck threw the exact same pass 2 him for the td only Fleener didnt get in position in the corner of the endzone. Giant TE pretty simple we get on the goal line u run to the corner QB throws it high where only u can catch it. It became noticable as he season went on along with his inability to block so its definately an area of concern.

Like I said in a previous post I really like Fleener and think he will better adapt in is second yr. Still no denying that 2012 wasnt very good for him.