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Brady has fastest release in NFL - per ESPN


JerodMayo51

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Regardless of if its from snap to release or actual mechanical throwing time, the point is that there is this completely radical idea on this board that Brady has enough time to make a sandwhich and then throw the ball. This article basically smashes that whole little theory to tiny itty bitty pieces, as it shows the offensive line has to protect for less time than any other oline in the league.

Now, I love my oline over in New England, but I couldn't resist shooting down an argument that Brady bashers use all the time as to why hes not a great QB. Hes one of the best to ever strap on a football helmet and its going to suck when he retires.

 

It's an average.

 

Technically, a quarterback have the lowest average and still have a good amount of plays where he gets a ton of time to scan the field. Just because Brady has the lowest average doesn't mean he doesn't also get a ton of time on a good amount of plays. 

 

And there's a big difference between throwing quick because you absolutely have to, and doing so because you choose to. Brady does a great job of reading defenses so he can get the ball out quickly, but that doesn't mean he's getting rid of the ball because he's under pressure. Another quarterback might be getting rid of the ball quickly out of absolute necessity, already under pressure. Good pass protection makes life easier for the quarterback, whether he's quick triggered or not.

 

Also, just because he throws quick doesn't mean the Patriots don't have a good offensive line. You alluded to SB42. While the line got completely outplayed in that game, they were probably the best pass protection unit in the league throughout the course of the season. And there were other issues in that game, aside from the line play. The receivers weren't getting separation, including Moss and Welker, not the way they were used to. The Giants secondary played very well.

 

Compare that to the regular season game against the Colts that year, the first time the Pats really got tested by a good pass rush, and the first game they failed to score 30 points that season. First play of the game, Brady gets sacked by Mathis, Pats go three and out. Next series, the Pats feature the run game a bit more, and Brady's throwing hot to avoid the pass rush, touchdown. Good adjustment, good coaching, good execution. They countered the Colts defense, and we never countered back. Last drive of the game, Brady converts a third down short to Welker, made possible mostly by the same vanilla coverage the Colts had been playing all game. We did a good job of limiting big plays, but Brady had whatever he wanted underneath. Why not throw quick?

 

But in SB42, the Giants played a ton of different coverages, they brought pressure in a bunch of different ways (my favorite was the "draw blitz" by Kawika Mitchell), and the Pats passing game was thrown off. It wasn't just the offensive line, although that was the biggest reason. The Patriots had already shown that they could counter a good pass rush. What they weren't able to counter (and it should have cost them the Ravens game earlier that year, if not for Rex Ryan's ill-timed timeout) was a good pash rush + good coverage.

 

Sorry, got carried away. My point is just that Brady's quick release doesn't mean he doesn't benefit from good line play. He does.

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It's an average.

 

Technically, a quarterback have the lowest average and still have a good amount of plays where he gets a ton of time to scan the field. Just because Brady has the lowest average doesn't mean he doesn't also get a ton of time on a good amount of plays. 

 

And there's a big difference between throwing quick because you absolutely have to, and doing so because you choose to. Brady does a great job of reading defenses so he can get the ball out quickly, but that doesn't mean he's getting rid of the ball because he's under pressure. Another quarterback might be getting rid of the ball quickly out of absolute necessity, already under pressure. Good pass protection makes life easier for the quarterback, whether he's quick triggered or not.

 

Also, just because he throws quick doesn't mean the Patriots don't have a good offensive line. You alluded to SB42. While the line got completely outplayed in that game, they were probably the best pass protection unit in the league throughout the course of the season. And there were other issues in that game, aside from the line play. The receivers weren't getting separation, including Moss and Welker, not the way they were used to. The Giants secondary played very well.

 

Compare that to the regular season game against the Colts that year, the first time the Pats really got tested by a good pass rush, and the first game they failed to score 30 points that season. First play of the game, Brady gets sacked by Mathis, Pats go three and out. Next series, the Pats feature the run game a bit more, and Brady's throwing hot to avoid the pass rush, touchdown. Good adjustment, good coaching, good execution. They countered the Colts defense, and we never countered back. Last drive of the game, Brady converts a third down short to Welker, made possible mostly by the same vanilla coverage the Colts had been playing all game. We did a good job of limiting big plays, but Brady had whatever he wanted underneath. Why not throw quick?

 

But in SB42, the Giants played a ton of different coverages, they brought pressure in a bunch of different ways (my favorite was the "draw blitz" by Kawika Mitchell), and the Pats passing game was thrown off. It wasn't just the offensive line, although that was the biggest reason. The Patriots had already shown that they could counter a good pass rush. What they weren't able to counter (and it should have cost them the Ravens game earlier that year, if not for Rex Ryan's ill-timed timeout) was a good pash rush + good coverage.

 

Sorry, got carried away. My point is just that Brady's quick release doesn't mean he doesn't benefit from good line play. He does.

Your point is really weak here. An average is an average. When everything is accounted for Brady is getting rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less. Some plays he is doing even quicker and some even longer. But as Jerod is saying this idea that he has all day back there is total garbage that is the point. He rarely is sitting back there for more than 4 seconds on any play as if he did than his average would not be anywhere near the best in the league.

 

I don't disagree that he gets good Oline play but as I said in a previous post, he did not get good play from them in a bunch of games last season against good defensive fronts, i.e. ravens, niners, seattle, arizona. Their best games against a good defensive front was the Texans twice. Brady often makes his Oline look much, much better than it is. For sure it is a solid line with very good coaching but when your QB gets rid of the ball that quick consistently your job is the easiest in the NFL. That is not debatable and even they would tell you that.

 

The fact that you keep bringing up SB 42 does not help your argument at all. Brady had a broken ankle so his ability to move was severely hampered. For sure his Oline played terrible against the best defensive front in football. Again, one game, hardly anything that is indicative of Brady's play and still he had that game won until the Tyree stickum catch.

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It's an average.

 

Technically, a quarterback have the lowest average and still have a good amount of plays where he gets a ton of time to scan the field. Just because Brady has the lowest average doesn't mean he doesn't also get a ton of time on a good amount of plays. 

 

And there's a big difference between throwing quick because you absolutely have to, and doing so because you choose to. Brady does a great job of reading defenses so he can get the ball out quickly, but that doesn't mean he's getting rid of the ball because he's under pressure. Another quarterback might be getting rid of the ball quickly out of absolute necessity, already under pressure. Good pass protection makes life easier for the quarterback, whether he's quick triggered or not.

 

Also, just because he throws quick doesn't mean the Patriots don't have a good offensive line. You alluded to SB42. While the line got completely outplayed in that game, they were probably the best pass protection unit in the league throughout the course of the season. And there were other issues in that game, aside from the line play. The receivers weren't getting separation, including Moss and Welker, not the way they were used to. The Giants secondary played very well.

 

Compare that to the regular season game against the Colts that year, the first time the Pats really got tested by a good pass rush, and the first game they failed to score 30 points that season. First play of the game, Brady gets sacked by Mathis, Pats go three and out. Next series, the Pats feature the run game a bit more, and Brady's throwing hot to avoid the pass rush, touchdown. Good adjustment, good coaching, good execution. They countered the Colts defense, and we never countered back. Last drive of the game, Brady converts a third down short to Welker, made possible mostly by the same vanilla coverage the Colts had been playing all game. We did a good job of limiting big plays, but Brady had whatever he wanted underneath. Why not throw quick?

 

But in SB42, the Giants played a ton of different coverages, they brought pressure in a bunch of different ways (my favorite was the "draw blitz" by Kawika Mitchell), and the Pats passing game was thrown off. It wasn't just the offensive line, although that was the biggest reason. The Patriots had already shown that they could counter a good pass rush. What they weren't able to counter (and it should have cost them the Ravens game earlier that year, if not for Rex Ryan's ill-timed timeout) was a good pash rush + good coverage.

 

Sorry, got carried away. My point is just that Brady's quick release doesn't mean he doesn't benefit from good line play. He does.

 

 

Your point is really weak here. An average is an average. When everything is accounted for Brady is getting rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less. Some plays he is doing even quicker and some even longer. But as Jerod is saying this idea that he has all day back there is total garbage that is the point. He rarely is sitting back there for more than 4 seconds on any play as if he did than his average would not be anywhere near the best in the league.

 

I don't disagree that he gets good Oline play but as I said in a previous post, he did not get good play from them in a bunch of games last season against good defensive fronts, i.e. ravens, niners, seattle, arizona. Their best games against a good defensive front was the Texans twice. Brady often makes his Oline look much, much better than it is. For sure it is a solid line with very good coaching but when your QB gets rid of the ball that quick consistently your job is the easiest in the NFL. That is not debatable and even they would tell you that.

 

The fact that you keep bringing up SB 42 does not help your argument at all. Brady had a broken ankle so his ability to move was severely hampered. For sure his Oline played terrible against the best defensive front in football. Again, one game, hardly anything that is indicative of Brady's play and still he had that game won until the Tyree stickum catch.

 

 

u also can get the ball off quicker and more accurate and read defenses faster, when OL is so good u have a nice pocket to work behind with clear field of vision

 

many factors go into ability to do this effectively no matter what QB one is talking about

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u also can get the ball off quicker and more accurate and read defenses faster, when OL is so good u have a nice pocket to work behind with clear field of vision

 

many factors go into ability to do this effectively no matter what QB one is talking about

Most NFL lines can protect for two seconds. And remember Brady is the one setting the protection every down. He is calling out the Mike and the blitzers and also the protection scheme to ensure the pocket moves to take on the pressure.

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u also can get the ball off quicker and more accurate and read defenses faster, when OL is so good u have a nice pocket to work behind with clear field of vision

 

many factors go into ability to do this effectively no matter what QB one is talking about

 

 

Most NFL lines can protect for two seconds. And remember Brady is the one setting the protection every down. He is calling out the Mike and the blitzers and also the protection scheme to ensure the pocket moves to take on the pressure.

 

I didnt note a qb in particular in my comment, just a general statement

 

Of course I think Peyton & Brady & I  am not dissecting the order here are the best at what they do in this regard to me and the few Literally .02 seconds faster than Peyton Brady is that Dustin noted  is nil to me as each when has to has done in less than 1 second

 

Peyton as a colt one year with a porous OL I  remember the TV announcers showing many times, over many games , a clock with constant  releases at 0.70  to 0.75 seconds and I am sure Brady can do same when pressed

 

The 0.02 difference can be attributed to many factors, some simply choice of play , short Vs deep &  needing time to develop or if 1st & 2nd receivers are covered and u have to go through a longer progression to find an open one etc etc

 

Just my opinion that they are the best , the time difference is inconsequential when many factors play a part

 

Thats all, wasnt trying to knock Brady

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I didnt note a qb in particular in my comment, just a general statement

 

Of course I think Peyton & Brady & I  am not dissecting the order here are the best at what they do in this regard to me and the few Literally .02 seconds faster than Peyton Brady is that Dustin noted  is nil to me as each when has to has done in less than 1 second

 

Peyton as a colt one year with a porous OL I  remember the TV announcers showing many times, over many games , a clock with constant  releases at 0.70  to 0.75 seconds and I am sure Brady can do same when pressed

 

The 0.02 difference can be attributed to many factors, some simply choice of play , short Vs deep &  needing time to develop or if 1st & 2nd receivers are covered and u have to go through a longer progression to find an open one etc etc

 

Just my opinion that they are the best , the time difference is inconsequential when many factors play a part

 

Thats all, wasnt trying to knock Brady

ok, you talked about a clean pocket and now you are talking about not having a clean pocket. Hard to follow your point. I don't disagree that Brady and Manning are the among best in this area but the idea that they get Oline protection all the time is a myth. They make their Olines look great most of the time iMO.

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ok, you talked about a clean pocket and now you are talking about not having a clean pocket. Hard to follow your point. I don't disagree that Brady and Manning are the among best in this area but the idea that they get Oline protection all the time is a myth. They make their Olines look great most of the time iMO.

 

Must eat something and take meds and then get back to this, cant delay any longer

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ok, you talked about a clean pocket and now you are talking about not having a clean pocket. Hard to follow your point. I don't disagree that Brady and Manning are the among best in this area but the idea that they get Oline protection all the time is a myth. They make their Olines look great most of the time iMO.

 

Breakfast is down to a science so  is fast, including the 47 medically supervised pills I down, many Rx, Many supplements and Vitamins  all followed up with blood tests

 

again When talking about clean pockets that goes for both QB's , when talking about a bad line that goes for both QB's, I noted that Manning example as of course I watched the Colt games and it was just vivid that year at years start when they did show that clock & release time but AS I noted I said sure Brady when has to can do same

 

Of course both can make a bad line look great

 

Now again I will give an example with Peyton only as I know it ,Colt  OG  Rick Demulling many years back in Peytons earlier years went free agency to Lion's and later was dropped, afterwards he said Lions thought he was much better than he was , but Demulling said they never realized it was Peyton making the entire line look better, 

 

Now I dont know of a specific example of a OL from pats saying such but sure they would under same circumstances

 

I am simply saying 0.02 seconds is nil to me, both are to me best at what they do &  many factors can justify more than a 0.02 second difference

 

In Brady;'s corner u can say save for welker and year he had moss when Moss went nuts and know Moss was great only that year for Brady and is an exception to what am about to say because Moss was always able to get so free

 

But Brady had to adjust more varied receiving corps , peyton / colts retained more of same over the years, thats a credit to brady, but then againm was the Bair White Project when Collie went down and that 1st year Collie & Garcon both started and Peyton didnt lose a beat

 

So again i am simply saying they both are best at it, not picking an order here as are 2 different supporting casts and variables that come into play

 

Thats all i have to say on this subject & not spending more time on it just for this reason

 

I just dont like back and forth endless no winner debates when to many  on both sides have firm ideas and loyalty and wont change no matter what , thats why i had stayed aaway from thread and tried to be QB neutral with my intial comment today

 

Know many on forum seem to thrive on debate, all are hear for own reason

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Your point is really weak here. An average is an average. When everything is accounted for Brady is getting rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less. Some plays he is doing even quicker and some even longer. But as Jerod is saying this idea that he has all day back there is total garbage that is the point. He rarely is sitting back there for more than 4 seconds on any play as if he did than his average would not be anywhere near the best in the league.

 

I don't disagree that he gets good Oline play but as I said in a previous post, he did not get good play from them in a bunch of games last season against good defensive fronts, i.e. ravens, niners, seattle, arizona. Their best games against a good defensive front was the Texans twice. Brady often makes his Oline look much, much better than it is. For sure it is a solid line with very good coaching but when your QB gets rid of the ball that quick consistently your job is the easiest in the NFL. That is not debatable and even they would tell you that.

 

The fact that you keep bringing up SB 42 does not help your argument at all. Brady had a broken ankle so his ability to move was severely hampered. For sure his Oline played terrible against the best defensive front in football. Again, one game, hardly anything that is indicative of Brady's play and still he had that game won until the Tyree stickum catch.

 

To the bolded, you're ignoring what an average is. If a quarterback gets rid of the ball in one second on 100 pass plays, but takes four seconds on another 100 pass plays, his average time to throw would be 2.5 seconds. 

 

Brady does help take pressure off of his offensive line by being quick to get rid of the ball, and the work he does pre-snap is instrumental as well.

 

All I'm saying is that just because he has a really low average time to throw doesn't mean that he doesn't also get good protection. And that same good protection can be there for the quick throws as well as some of the longer developing plays, which in turn helps the quarterback deliver all of his passes more confidently. Those of you who are arguing that this stat refutes the idea that Brady gets and benefits from really good protection are grossly misapplying this stat.

 

You're incredibly defensive of Brady, and I haven't said a single word disparaging him. Brady's ankle in SB42 doesn't have anything to do with the poor line play and the fact that the Giants were doing a good job in coverage. Perhaps he would have been able to counter those things more effectively if he wasn't hurt, but that doesn't change the impact those things had on the game. You're trying to reduce the outcome down to Brady's ankle, and it just isn't so. It doesn't even matter why they lost; that's not what I'm talking about. 

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To the bolded, you're ignoring what an average is. If a quarterback gets rid of the ball in one second on 100 pass plays, but takes four seconds on another 100 pass plays, his average time to throw would be 2.5 seconds. 

 

Brady does help take pressure off of his offensive line by being quick to get rid of the ball, and the work he does pre-snap is instrumental as well.

 

All I'm saying is that just because he has a really low average time to throw doesn't mean that he doesn't also get good protection. And that same good protection can be there for the quick throws as well as some of the longer developing plays, which in turn helps the quarterback deliver all of his passes more confidently. Those of you who are arguing that this stat refutes the idea that Brady gets and benefits from really good protection are grossly misapplying this stat.

 

You're incredibly defensive of Brady, and I haven't said a single word disparaging him. Brady's ankle in SB42 doesn't have anything to do with the poor line play and the fact that the Giants were doing a good job in coverage. Perhaps he would have been able to counter those things more effectively if he wasn't hurt, but that doesn't change the impact those things had on the game. You're trying to reduce the outcome down to Brady's ankle, and it just isn't so. It doesn't even matter why they lost; that's not what I'm talking about. 

I just trying to understand your point. I know what an average is. That is why your point does not make sense.  Brady gets rid of the ball the quickest which makes his line work the least which helps them be fresher to pass protect when he does hold on to longer.

 

But the SB 42 is the head scratcher. You can always pick a game here or there to disprove something. In SB 46 he faced just a dominate Dline of the Giants and had a 91 rating and the set the SB record for most consecutive pass completions at 17. He was healthly then as opposed to SB 42 when he could not move or set the line to move the pocket around. That was the biggest difference not his release time or Oline protection.

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I just trying to understand your point. I know what an average is. That is why your point does not make sense.  Brady gets rid of the ball the quickest which makes his line work the least which helps them be fresher to pass protect when he does hold on to longer.

 

I said: Technically, a quarterback have the lowest average and still have a good amount of plays where he gets a ton of time to scan the field. Just because Brady has the lowest average doesn't mean he doesn't also get a ton of time on a good amount of plays. 

 

You said: He rarely is sitting back there for more than 4 seconds on any play as if he did than his average would not be anywhere near the best in the league.

 

That's not true. Like I said, Brady could be on both extremes, and that would average out to 2.5 seconds per play. Just because he has a low average doesn't mean he doesn't also have time to throw ball on a lot of pass plays. It's. An. Average.

 

But the SB 42 is the head scratcher. You can always pick a game here or there to disprove something. In SB 46 he faced just a dominate Dline of the Giants and had a 91 rating and the set the SB record for most consecutive pass completions at 17. He was healthly then as opposed to SB 42 when he could not move or set the line to move the pocket around. That was the biggest difference not his release time or Oline protection.

 

 

I wasn't trying to disprove anything by bringing up SB42. My initial point was that, while Brady is great in the pocket, that doesn't help when the offensive line is getting dominated. Yes, he was hampered, but I'm not sure his ankle injury had that big an impact on his ability to work the pocket. Maybe it kept the Pats from moving the pocket as much, but even then, the bigger issue is that there simply was no pocket on a lot of plays. In order to work the pocket, there has to be a pocket first.

 

And the difference between the Giants defense in 2007 vs. 2011 is that they had one of the worst rated secondaries in the league in 2011. Still a great pass rush (maybe they didn't play quite as well as they did in 2007), but not as good an overall defense. Certainly not as good of a performance. Even go back to Colts vs. Patriots in 2007, Brady nullified the Colts pass rush by getting rid of the ball quickly, and that worked so well because the Colts sat back in zone coverage all game. His ability to identify where to go with the ball and get rid of it certainly makes life easier on his offensive line. But even in that game, he had a couple of opportunities to look downfield.

 

Again, if you look at an average and then say "this proves X doesn't happen," then you're not correctly understanding what an average is. Brady's time to throw doesn't mean he doesn't benefit from good protection.

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I said: Technically, a quarterback have the lowest average and still have a good amount of plays where he gets a ton of time to scan the field. Just because Brady has the lowest average doesn't mean he doesn't also get a ton of time on a good amount of plays. 

 

You said: He rarely is sitting back there for more than 4 seconds on any play as if he did than his average would not be anywhere near the best in the league.

 

That's not true. Like I said, Brady could be on both extremes, and that would average out to 2.5 seconds per play. Just because he has a low average doesn't mean he doesn't also have time to throw ball on a lot of pass plays. It's. An. Average.

 

 

 

I wasn't trying to disprove anything by bringing up SB42. My initial point was that, while Brady is great in the pocket, that doesn't help when the offensive line is getting dominated. Yes, he was hampered, but I'm not sure his ankle injury had that big an impact on his ability to work the pocket. Maybe it kept the Pats from moving the pocket as much, but even then, the bigger issue is that there simply was no pocket on a lot of plays. In order to work the pocket, there has to be a pocket first.

 

And the difference between the Giants defense in 2007 vs. 2011 is that they had one of the worst rated secondaries in the league in 2011. Still a great pass rush (maybe they didn't play quite as well as they did in 2007), but not as good an overall defense. Certainly not as good of a performance. Even go back to Colts vs. Patriots in 2007, Brady nullified the Colts pass rush by getting rid of the ball quickly, and that worked so well because the Colts sat back in zone coverage all game. His ability to identify where to go with the ball and get rid of it certainly makes life easier on his offensive line. But even in that game, he had a couple of opportunities to look downfield.

 

Again, if you look at an average and then say "this proves X doesn't happen," then you're not correctly understanding what an average is. Brady's time to throw doesn't mean he doesn't benefit from good protection.

An average is not based on extremes even though they exist. That fact is the majority of Brady's releases are between 1.5-3 seconds to get to the 2 seconds averagge. There are a few sprinked in that are 3.5 sec or higher or lower than 2 sec  but most are between 1.5-3 seconds or else you would not get the average 2 seconds. I think that is just common sense in terms of averages.

 

No one is arguing that Brady does not have a good Oline. Jerod was saying that this stat debunks the thinking that Brady gets all day to throw when the fact is he gets rid of the ball so quick he makes his Oline work the least in the league. He is 100 percent right.

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An average is not based on extremes even though they exist. That fact is the majority of Brady's releases are between 1.5-3 seconds to get to the 2 seconds averagge. There are a few sprinked in that are 3.5 sec or higher or lower than 2 sec  but most are between 1.5-3 seconds or else you would not get the average 2 seconds. I think that is just common sense in terms of averages.

 

No one is arguing that Brady does not have a good Oline. Jerod was saying that this stat debunks the thinking that Brady gets all day to throw when the fact is he gets rid of the ball so quick he makes his Oline work the least in the league. He is 100 percent right.

 

An average is based on whatever data there is. There will be some extremes.

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