Andrew Luck ranked #23 on NFL Top 100

[BlueCollarColts]

I find it funny some people have 2-3 rookies ahead of Luck on their rankings, sorry but there is no excuse to have any more than 1 rookie ahead of Luck

[Gavin]

Kuechly also had 11.5 Stuffs compared 1 sack and 2 picks compared to:

 

Freemans 6 stuffs 2 picks and 2 sacks

 

Bowman 4 stuffs, 1 pick

 

Willis 5 Stuffs

 

All according to ESPN

 

I can argue Freeman was every bit as good as a whole that Bowman was, Neither were as good as Kuechly

 

 

 

Which is nice if Spiller would have carried as much as Lynch and kept that same pace

[Dustin]

Kuechly also had 11.5 Stuffs compared 1 sack and 2 picks compared to:

 

Freemans 6 stuffs 2 picks and 2 sacks

 

Bowman 4 stuffs, 1 pick

 

Willis 5 Stuffs

 

All according to ESPN

 

I can argue Freeman was every bit as good as a whole that Bowman was, Neither were as good as Kuechly

 

 

 

Which is nice if Spiller would have carried as much as Lynch and kept that same pace

 

PFF Performance Based Value: (Higher is better)

 

Kuechly $4.9 million

 

Willis: $15.6 million

 

Bowman: $10.3 million

 

Freeman: $4.9 million.

 

These are the levels which these guys played and how much their performances were "worth." Willis and Bowman kill Kuechly. And Freeman is on par with Kuechly. 

 

______________________________________________________________

 

Spiller had 250 touches and Lynch had 340. Lynch had 1,786 yards from scrimmage and Spiller had 1,703 yards from scrimmage. Or, 6.82 yards per touch for Spiller and 5.2 yards per touch for Lynch.

 

Lynch does kill him in pass protection though. Spiller is god awful at it. But Spiller kills him in every other category.

[Gavin]

PFF Performance Based Value: (Higher is better)

 

Kuechly $4.9 million

 

Willis: $15.6 million

 

Bowman: $10.3 million

 

Freeman: $4.9 million.

 

These are the levels which these guys played and how much their performances were "worth." Willis and Bowman kill Kuechly. And Freeman is on par with Kuechly. 

 

______________________________________________________________

 

Spiller had 250 touches and Lynch had 340. Lynch had 1,786 yards from scrimmage and Spiller had 1,703 yards from scrimmage. Or, 6.82 yards per touch for Spiller and 5.2 yards per touch for Lynch.

 

Lynch does kill him in pass protection though. Spiller is god awful at it. But Spiller kills him in every other category.

Ill take Kuechly and Lynch

[Dustin]

Ill take Kuechly and Lynch

 

At least you stick to your guns lol

[ColtStrong]

Idk, I really couldn't tell you anything about computers. I basically use the internet on my phone 3/4 of the time anyway.

 

As for the voting, I'm not really saying that it's not a large enough sample size, but consider that we played 13 teams last year. Now consider the 20% that voted are split out among the 32 teams in the league. Half the people who voted on this thing didn't even play most of the guys they voted for anyway. Especially considering some of the head-scratching choices that have been on their so far. Like early season MVP candidate Percy Harvin being ranked below a kick returner. 

 

BTW, I think some of you guys are missing my intention here. I think that Luck was phenomenal for a rookie last year. I have no doubt he'll be the best QB in the league in 3-4 years, but as far as being the 23rd best player in the league last year? I have to disagree with that.

 

I guess we can just agree to disagree here lol

I guess you just like debating. I'm guessing you're under 30 yrs old. Some of us older folks can do it to a point, but then it just gets annoying. I bow out after a certain point, because I no longer have stamina.    It happens when you get old. Anyway, I'll just watch from the sidelines for the remainder of this thread. Good luck Dustin, you'll need it. Some of the old vets here are very knowledgeable.

[BlueCollarColts]

PFF Performance Based Value: (Higher is better)

 

Kuechly $4.9 million

 

Willis: $15.6 million

 

Bowman: $10.3 million

 

Freeman: $4.9 million.

 

These are the levels which these guys played and how much their performances were "worth." Willis and Bowman kill Kuechly. And Freeman is on par with Kuechly. 

 

______________________________________________________________

 

Spiller had 250 touches and Lynch had 340. Lynch had 1,786 yards from scrimmage and Spiller had 1,703 yards from scrimmage. Or, 6.82 yards per touch for Spiller and 5.2 yards per touch for Lynch.

 

Lynch does kill him in pass protection though. Spiller is god awful at it. But Spiller kills him in every other category.

You need to take into account Willis and Bowman had great D-lines in front of them, and the Colts did not, not sure about the Panthers, but I think they were average at best, I think Freeman is a Very good linebacker, not as good as Willis or Bowman are, of course not, but a very good player none the less

[Dustin]

You need to take into account Willis and Bowman had great D-lines in front of them, and the Colts did not, not sure about the Panthers, but I think they were average at best, I think Freeman is a Very good linebacker, not as good as Willis or Bowman are, of course not, but a very good player none the less

 

Panthers D-line is outstanding actually. Lutulei should make it one of the best in the league.

 

I agree that Freeman is a very good linebacker. Hopefully he can show how good he really is with an improved D-line. I see multiple all-pros in his future.

[cranium cramp]

And Reg is #21

 The thing is, I can see Reg being #21. Without Reggie no way Luck even makes Top 65. The influence and calming demeanor the Intelliegence  of the game. Reggie spent a few years learning from a certain someone......If Andrew pays attention like I believe he will, with his physical attributes. Andrew will grow leaps and bounds. Reggie is a great receiver, however Reggie was not only signed because of his physical attributes as a receiver. The Colts and Irsay signed Reggie to teach Luck everything he could about Manning's understanding of the game. 

[Narcosys]

Exactly! And Looking back on last season Andrew Luck was not the 23rd best player in the league.

Well I will respectfully disagree

[ColtStrong]

 The thing is, I can see Reg being #21. Without Reggie no way Luck even makes Top 65. The influence and calming demeanor the Intelliegence  of the game. Reggie spent a few years learning from a certain someone......If Andrew pays attention like I believe he will, with his physical attributes. Andrew will grow leaps and bounds. Reggie is a great receiver, however Reggie was not only signed because of his physical attributes as a receiver. The Colts and Irsay signed Reggie to teach Luck everything he could about Manning's understanding of the game. 

it's all good I think we all can agree the colts are on the upswing.

[Larry Horseman]

Dude KC is a staple in the NFL...   they are going nowhere.

 

True Indy struggled for years...   but bad ownership passed away and Jim stepped in and "struggled" at first.. but then realized he needed a football man to make "football decisions" ...    A first for the entire Irsay family.        Manning helped...   hehee

 

But Indy has a following now.   

 

They are a staple in the KC market (and I agree a classic NFL franchise). However, they are not the NFC East, Steelers, Raiders, Giants, etc, with a huge fanbase outside of their home market. That point aside, my real point is that Jacksonville is not really in that bad of shape...it is a common perception that just isn't true. So, take that for what it is worth.

[Warhorse]

Waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy overrated.

 

luck should have been ranked much, much lower.......like 24th.

 

 

 

 

 

 

;)

[BOTT]

You could say that about any of the NFL small markets. The Colts were the Jags before PM and AL. Who cares about KC outside of the home fans?

You could say that about most teams period. Does anyone care about the Jets outside of that area?

[Larry Horseman]

You could say that about most teams period. Does anyone care about the Jets outside of that area?

Sure it's true for the majority of teams. That was part of my original point, and what I was saying in the post a few up.

[BOTT]

Sure it's true for the majority of teams. That was part of my original point, and what I was saying in the post a few up.

Guess I missed all these Giants and Raiders fans. I can only think of three teams who have somewhat of a national following; the Cowboys, Steelers, and Packers.

[TonyBungee]

Lots of lists, and lots of different criteria used.  But let me ask this:  How many players currently in the NFL would you trade Luck for straight up, right now?

[ColtStorm_12]

I have no problem with him being #23.  He'll be lower than that each year to come.

[The Fish]

Guess I missed all these Giants and Raiders fans. I can only think of three teams who have somewhat of a national following; the Cowboys, Steelers, and Packers.

You forgot to mention what ever team just won the SB, and the Bears. Freakin' Bear fan

[Gavin]

 

At least you stick to your guns lol

Whats Spiller done prior to this last year? Lynch has  4 1000 plus yard seasons under his belt 2 of which he ran for over 10 td's. Will flat out run through people, He dont have elite speed but he can break away from ya plus the Bills had an overall more noteable O Line at the time. Levitre , Cordy Glenn, Erick Wood , Kraig Urbik. Rinehart got put on IR

[Dustin]

Whats Spiller done prior to this last year? Lynch has  4 1000 plus yard seasons under his belt 2 of which he ran for over 10 td's. Will flat out run through people, He dont have elite speed but he can break away from ya plus the Bills had an overall more noteable O Line at the time. Levitre , Cordy Glenn, Erick Wood , Kraig Urbik and Chad Rinehart got put on IR

 

Previous years are irrelevant. 2012 should be the only year that counts.

 

As for the offensive lines, not only does Seattle have a better O-line (15th in run blocking compared to 21st for Buffalo), but Spiller is much better at getting yards in spite of his O-line evident by his 3.6 yards after contact average compared to Lynch's 2.8.

[Gavin]

Previous years are irrelevant. 2012 should be the only year that counts.

 

As for the offensive lines, not only does Seattle have a better O-line (15th in run blocking compared to 21st for Buffalo), but Spiller is much better at getting yards in spite of his O-line evident by his 3.6 yards after contact average compared to Lynch's 2.8.

Where do ya get his yards after contact average, and yep I got carried away thinking of past years, even so, Lynch still had 11 td's this past year rushing  and 1 receiving plus he averaged 5 yards per carry this past year, Seattle was 3rd in yards in run blocking according to NFL.com and Buffalo was 6th  Buffalo was 10th in sacks allowed, Seattle was not far behind with 33 allowed (12th)

[Dustin]

Where do ya get his yards after contact average, and yep I got carried away thinking of past years, even so, Lynch still had 11 td's this past year rushing  and 1 receiving plus he averaged 5 yards per carry this past year, Seattle was 3rd in yards in run blocking according to NFL.com and Buffalo was 6th  Buffalo was 10th in sacks allowed, Seattle was not far behind with 33 allowed (12th)

 

I got the YAC number from a thread posted in a Falcon's forum a while back: http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3977917-running-back-yards-after-contact-per-attempt/

 

Football outsiders has Seattle ranked 3rd in O-line yards (4.43 yards per attempt) and Buffalo 8th in O-line yards (4.24 yards per attempt) so Lynch has the clear favor as far as "uncontested yards" go.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/OL

 

I find TDs to be a useless stat when judging skill positions. Short yardage TDs are more indicative of O-line play then it is of the RBs actual skill. It's also not a fair thing to use for this comparison because of the huge discrepancy in the amount of touches each player had. 

 

Lynch had 11 TDs on 338 touches, or 1 TD every 31 touches.

 

Spiller had 8 TDs on only 250 touches, or 1 TD every 31 touches.

[BOTT]

You forgot to mention what ever team just won the SB, and the Bears. Freakin' Bear fan

I refuse to acknowledge the Bears and their fans.

[Larry Horseman]

Guess I missed all these Giants and Raiders fans. I can only think of three teams who have somewhat of a national following; the Cowboys, Steelers, and Packers.

 

Here's some pretty legit data: http://deadspin.com/5980852/who-is-americas-favorite-nfl-team-facebook-data-offer-a-clear-winner

 

Raiders are in the top 10. Biggest surprises to me are the Colts, Saints, and Pats being in the top 10...obviously a product of success in the 2000s. The Giants were 6th by the way.

 

Here's another link that has the Raiders 11th and the Giants 8th: http://www.rsvlts.com/2012/08/16/the-most-popular-nfl-teams-according-to-the-internet/

 

Here's another link that has the Raiders 12th and Giants 3rd: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8295decd/article/poll-finds-cowboys-to-be-nfls-most-popular-team

 

The Giants were also a top 6 selling team this past year: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000158570/article/robert-griffin-iii-sets-alltime-jersey-sales-record

 

There's also surprise here (http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/59058/where-every-nfl-team-ranks-in-popularity) that the Raiders weren't in the top 5 popular teams. So yes, I guess you did miss all the Giants and Raiders fans.

 

Back to my original point about the Jags...they are near the bottom in all these lists, yet have a better home attendance percentage than many of the more popular teams. I really dislike the Jags, but the point is that they really aren't in as bad of shape re: attendance as what people go around saying. The home fanbase sustains them very well.

[BOTT]

Here's some pretty legit data: http://deadspin.com/5980852/who-is-americas-favorite-nfl-team-facebook-data-offer-a-clear-winner

 

Raiders are in the top 10. Biggest surprises to me are the Colts, Saints, and Pats being in the top 10...obviously a product of success in the 2000s. The Giants were 6th by the way.

 

Here's another link that has the Raiders 11th and the Giants 8th: http://www.rsvlts.com/2012/08/16/the-most-popular-nfl-teams-according-to-the-internet/

 

Here's another link that has the Raiders 12th and Giants 3rd: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8295decd/article/poll-finds-cowboys-to-be-nfls-most-popular-team

 

The Giants were also a top 6 selling team this past year: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000158570/article/robert-griffin-iii-sets-alltime-jersey-sales-record

 

There's also surprise here (http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/59058/where-every-nfl-team-ranks-in-popularity) that the Raiders weren't in the top 5 popular teams. So yes, I guess you did miss all the Giants and Raiders fans.

 

Back to my original point about the Jags...they are near the bottom in all these lists, yet have a better home attendance percentage than many of the more popular teams. I really dislike the Jags, but the point is that they really aren't in as bad of shape re: attendance as what people go around saying. The home fanbase sustains them very well.

So the Giants, who play in the largest market in the USA, sell a lot of merchandise and receive a lot of likes on social media? Who woulda thought?

[Larry Horseman]

So the Giants, who play in the largest market in the USA, sell a lot of merchandise and receive a lot of likes on social media? Who woulda thought?

I don't know what to say besides thanks for proving my point. That fact also speaks to them having a larger displaced fan base than the median.

[BOTT]

I don't know what to say besides thanks for proving my point. That fact also speaks to them having a larger displaced fan base than the median.

I guess you would see it that way. Playing in a large market does not equal a large national following.

[Larry Horseman]

I guess you would see it that way. Playing in a large market does not equal a large national following.

I live on the west coast and see as many Giants fans as any other outside market. I walk into a sports store and there is Giants gear every year. They are popular.

[BOTT]

I live on the west coast and see as many Giants fans as any other outside market. I walk into a sports store and there is Giants gear every year. They are popular.

You win

[ColtStrong]

I live on the west coast and see as many Giants fans as any other outside market. I walk into a sports store and there is Giants gear every year. They are popular.

Revelation! ;)

[ColtsBlueFL]

This list is worthless. That's way too high.

 

The players only vote on that, and it is projection for this upcoming year, not last year.  Their impressions are not worthless.  I believe each player was to list their top 20 players for next year.  The final 100 was tallied from all of those lists.  

 

The fans get to vote too, and the NFL keeps that separate.  here's a list with player and fan voting side by side.  Fans project Luck at #26 for 2013, and players #23. Not so far off.

 

http://top100.nfl.com/tracker

[SeenSawConqured]

RG3 comes in at #15.  Congrats to him.

[Gavin]

Ridiculously high but congrats to him

[NewColtsFan]

PFF Performance Based Value: (Higher is better)

 

Kuechly $4.9 million

 

Willis: $15.6 million

 

Bowman: $10.3 million

 

Freeman: $4.9 million.

 

These are the levels which these guys played and how much their performances were "worth." Willis and Bowman kill Kuechly. And Freeman is on par with Kuechly. 

 

______________________________________________________________

 

Spiller had 250 touches and Lynch had 340. Lynch had 1,786 yards from scrimmage and Spiller had 1,703 yards from scrimmage. Or, 6.82 yards per touch for Spiller and 5.2 yards per touch for Lynch.

 

Lynch does kill him in pass protection though. Spiller is god awful at it. But Spiller kills him in every other category.

 

Except the one category that teams value and you dismiss....

 

Volume stats.    You blew right past the part where Lynch had nearly 100 more touches,  and he did have more than 100 more carries.    And he averaged 5 yards a pop there.   But because Spiller averaged a terrific 6 yards per -- you prefer him.

 

And yet,  Fred Jackson also ran the ball more than 100 times for Buffalo.  Why is that?   Either Spiller wasn't healthy and Jackson had to fill in,   or Spiller isn't built to carry a load the way Lynch can,   so Jackson has to spell him.

 

What you dismiss,  or discount,  the ability to carry a heavy load,  teams value -- highly.

 

Just out of curiosity,   how few carries/touches would Spiller have to have before you'd say....  "he doesn't have enough touches for me to place him that high on a list..."

[Dustin]

Except the one category that teams value and you dismiss....

Volume stats. You blew right past the part where Lynch had nearly 100 more touches, and he did have more than 100 more carries. And he averaged 5 yards a pop there. But because Spiller averaged a terrific 6 yards per -- you prefer him.

And yet, Fred Jackson also ran the ball more than 100 times for Buffalo. Why is that? Either Spiller wasn't healthy and Jackson had to fill in, or Spiller isn't built to carry a load the way Lynch can, so Jackson has to spell him.

What you dismiss, or discount, the ability to carry a heavy load, teams value -- highly.

Just out of curiosity, how few carries/touches would Spiller have to have before you'd say.... "he doesn't have enough touches for me to place him that high on a list..."

Spiller had 80 less yards from scrimmage on 100 less touches.

 

Getting a ton of carries doesn't make you good. If it did, Foster would have been an above-average RB this year.

 

For your last part, Idk, maybe 150.

[Warhorse]

RG3 comes in at #15.  Congrats to him.

True.

 

I remember when Peyton shared MVP with McNair, too.

[Dustin]

For your last part, Idk, maybe 150.

 

Actually, I think 200 touches is a good bar to set.

[MrNLM]

RG3 comes in at #15.  Congrats to him.

I am happy for him but, this creates a rage in me that I can not express. I mean... what kind of NFL fan would take a list like this seriously? This is what I call "Off-season Trash Broadcasting" and the part that I hate the most is when the NFL gets down to real business, this mockery of a list/placement will be spouted of during broadcasts like it was gospel. 

[aceinthehouse]

I am happy for him but, this creates a rage in me that I can not express. I mean... what kind of NFL fan would take a list like this seriously? This is what I call "Off-season Trash Broadcasting" and the part that I hate the most is when the NFL gets down to real business, this mockery of a list/placement will be spouted of during broadcasts like it was gospel. 

 

Calm the rage and see the reality.

 

#23 for Luck was generous, if anything.

 

#15 was appropriate for RG3.

 

 

 

• He is the first rookie in NFL history to throw for more than 300 yards, two touchdowns and no picks in his first start, and the first rookie quarterback in NFL history to finish the first half of his first game with a perfect passer rating.
• He is the first rookie in NFL history to throw 4 touchdowns in back to back games in the NFL season, the second player in NFL history to throw four touchdowns in back to back games, and the first player to do so without the benefit of a bye week in between.
• He is the first player in NFL history to throw for over 3200 yards, rush for 800 yards, and have a completion percentage over 60%.
• He broke the record for rookie passer rating set by Ben Roethlisberger in 2004 (102.4), and finished third in passer rating behind Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers.
• He is just the 54th man in NFL history to record a "Perfect Game", beating the Eagles with a passer rating of 158.3 and having just one incomplete pass.
• He's the first rookie to have two touchdowns of 65+ yards in his first two starts since Greg Cook in 1969.
• He tied with Ben Roethlisberger for the 2nd most games with a passer rating over 100. 
• Robert Griffin III and Russell Wilson are the only rookie quarterbacks in NFL history to finish the regular season with a passer rating over 100.
• He has the lowest percentage of passes intercepted (1.3), breaking Charlie Batch's record (1.98.)
• He had the fourth best completion percentage in the league.
• He set the rookie record for rushing yards in a season by a quarterback. (815)
• He led the league in yards per pass attempt. (8.1)
• He led the league in yards per carry. (6.9)
• His 76 yard touchdown versus the Minnesota Vikings was the second longest run by a quarterback in NFL history and the first 70+ yarder since Kordell Stewart in 1996.
• He is the first quarterback in NFL history to have four 60+ yard touchdowns and a 60+ yard rushing touchdown.
• Robert Griffin III and Dan Marino (1983) are the only rookie quarterbacks in NFL history to be selected to the Pro Bowl outright. (I.E, without someone else having to drop out first.)
• He's the only quarterback in NFL history with over 750 rush yards to finish with a passer rating over 100.
• He's the only quarterback in NFL history with over 75 rush yards to finish with a 4:1 touchdown to INT ratio.
• Set the Redskins franchise rookie record for completions,
• He set the record for rookie completion percentage in one game (93%).
• He led the Washington Redskins to their first division title since 1999, their first 10 win season since 2005, and just their third playoff appearance in the last 20 years.
• He influenced other playoff teams like the San Francisco 49ers and Seattle Seahawks to adopt elements of the read-option and the pistol formation, both of which were supposed to be impossible to make work in the NFL.
• He was a two time NFL Offensive Rookie of the Month, two time NFC Offensive Player of the Week, 7 time Pepsi Rookie of the Week, a Pro Bowl selection, and the Sporting News and PFW/PFWA Rookie of the Year.