Colts and RB Ahmad Bradshaw agreed to one-year deal.

[NewColtsFan]

-- Ballard

-- Bradshaw

-- Brown

-- Williams

 

-- I think Ballard is the lead dog.   I think the team really believes in him.

-- I think Bradshaw is the complimentary back.

-- I think Brown has his special situations.

-- I think Williams makes the roster based on his KO ability.

 

Havili is the 5th back.

[Superman]

Donald Brown has no business being part of the monster............buttercup

Proving my point.

[aliveon2legs]

They Colts can essentially pay for Bradshaw's contract by letting Brown go.  Doing so would free up $1.7 million in cap space.  That's way too much money to spend on a third string running back.

[Andy]

The question is whether that would be what's best for our team. There's nothing wrong with Donald Brown. He's still better than Carter and Williams. His performance and production last season was very similar to Ballard's, yet everyone has decided that Ballard is significantly better. Whatever, let's call Brown our #3 back. What's wrong with that?

Why not let him compete through camp, and then settle on your best stable of three backs?

The actual factual of it is that Donald Brown is in the fans' doghouse. People have been talking about cutting Donald Brown for years now, despite the fact that there's a place for him on the roster and he's not making a whole ton of money. Just leave it be and see who rises to the top of the heap in training camp. But right now, there's no way Brown doesn't fit in the rotation.

 

My point is that they can easily afford to cut him now, compared to last year where they really couldn't. 

 

I don't hate Donald Brown. The Colts don't necessarily have to cut him, they could like you said let him play during training camp, but do you really want a 2.7M dollar 3rd stringer, when there's Williams and Carter who can do that job and perhaps have a bigger impact (on ST too). 

 

Personally, I'd like to see the Colts give Kerwynn Williams the 3rd stringer job. He's the best receiving back and can have a big impact on special teams. Plus, he's 2M cheaper (cap hit wise). 

 

I think our difference is that I'm looking at the financials and you're looking at the ability. I don't believe that we should have a 2.7M 3rd stringer when there's Williams, and you think the best guy should be the 3rd stringer, regardless of the money. I don't think either or us are necessarily wrong or right. 

[Gavin]

My point is that they can easily afford to cut him now, compared to last year where they really couldn't. 

 

I don't hate Donald Brown. The Colts don't necessarily have to cut him, they could like you said let him play during training camp, but do you really want a 2.7M dollar 3rd stringer, when there's Williams and Carter who can do that job and perhaps have a bigger impact (on ST too). 

 

Personally, I'd like to see the Colts give Kerwynn Williams the 3rd stringer job. He's the best receiving back and can have a big impact on special teams. Plus, he's 2M cheaper (cap hit wise). 

 

I think our difference is that I'm looking at the financials and you're looking at the ability. I don't believe that we should have a 2.7M 3rd stringer when there's Williams, and you think the best guy should be the 3rd stringer, regardless of the money. I don't think either or us are necessarily wrong or right. 

Only thing is Carter runs well but he runs well without the ball, I certainly think Carter has a place in this offense on power runs however but a Back isn't of any value if they cant hold onto the ball

[TKnight24]

Looks like we're taking some caution going into this with Mr. Bradshaw

@mchappell51: #colts HC Chuck Pagano indicated Ahmad Bradshaw might not participate in minicamp. Still healing from Feb. surgery on right foot.

[CR91]

So does Bradshaw change his number or take 44 from mcnary

[ruksak]

I don't get the one year thing.  I would have signed him for at least two because the cap hit on re-signing him next year is going to kill us.

It only takes one season to win a championship.

 

Let's not get all worried about the season after the season that hasn't started yet, aye?

 

This is a serious impact signing. Oh yeah....Bradshaw can block like a truck. Many consider him as the best blocking back in the league.

[Andy]

Only thing is Carter runs well but he runs well without the ball, I certainly think Carter has a place in this offense on power runs however but a Back isn't of any value if they cant hold onto the ball

 

If they cut him, it won't be because of his fumbling "problem", it would be because of him not having a place on the team and not having the ability, which is the reason why 99% of players get cut from teams. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVwtccvoQ6c&list=PL170A9200612F416D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m1tcF9qKRE

[Gavin]

If they cut him, it won't be because of his fumbling "problem", it would be because of him not having a place on the team and not having the ability, which is the reason why 99% of players get cut from teams. 

Not hanging onto the ball would qualify as not having the ability, you have to have the ability to hang onto the ball consistently, Carter hasn't shown that...Good runner but a running back is useless if they can run with the ball

[Andy]

Not hanging onto the ball would qualify as not having the ability, you have to have the ability to hang onto the ball consistently, Carter hasn't shown that...Good runner but a running back is useless if they can run with the ball

 

They wouldn't cut him because he fumbles, plus it isn't even a huge problem. Not having the ability would be more like he can't hang with the other guys. He could.

[cranium cramp]

They wouldn't cut him because he fumbles, plus it isn't even a huge problem. Not having the ability would be more like he can't hang with the other guys. He could.

They would not cut him because he fumbles?????????Plus its not a huge problem?????????? Little know secret.......Running backs are required to hold the ball........while running..........Not holding onto the ball may at least be a small problem as the other team would like to hold onto said ball.

 

 Think about it like this.......If Painter throwing the ball to the other team was a bad idea and may have influenced his demise as a Colt, how could fumbling it to the other team be a good idea? Its really simple, turn overs cost players starting roster spots every year thru out the NFL. Do you really think a 3rd string back is safe?

[Gavin]

They wouldn't cut him because he fumbles, plus it isn't even a huge problem. Not having the ability would be more like he can't hang with the other guys. He could.

If you cant hang onto the football as a running back then you cant play, if you cant play then its a waste of a roster spot, Its clear he cant hang with the other guys, 32 carries says it all of last year (10 games), I agree he is a hard nosed runner who has vision but it dont matter if you run without the ball and he continues to do that

[UKColt13]

Now we just need Vonta Leach.

And the impending start for the battle of the no. 44.

[toadofsteel]

Giants fan here

 

I agree with the sentiment that your team just got a hell of a lot better with this signing. Hopefully, Pagano won't lean on Bradshaw like a crutch the way TC used to do (if anything, this is more why Reese made the cut than anything else... he wanted TC to stop overusing Bradshaw). If you can avoid playing him into the ground, he will be a productive RB for the entire season.

 

Also, since your team actually has an OL that's worth a damn (the only OL in the NFCEast that's worth writing home about is the Redskins), Bradshaw will have a much easier time getting to the second level. And once he gets to linebackers, he's pretty much worth guaranteed yards. But when the OL can't form a hole (which is much of the time for the Giants), he often gets stopped at the line. It's worth noting that every AB highlight I have ever seen came on plays where the Giants OL actually gets their act together. 

 

Bradshaw is really good at grinding down a defense with his pure physicality. If I were on the Colts coaching staff, I would put Bradshaw in mostly during the first quarter, to start wearing down the linebackers, before switching to Ballard. That's basically the one-two punch the Giants had in 2010 and 2011: Bradshaw would wear down a defense over several series, and then Jacobs would punch it through. That was really something to watch... Before long you had Jacobs trucking the likes of Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis, and Laron Landry... which he probably wouldn't have been able to do without Bradshaw wearing them down.

[BrentMc11]

Finally decided to post, been trolling for a while.

 

I personally like how Grigs is constantly working, I think it will pay dividends in the long run. And I really like this signing. Granted Bradshaw has an injury history, I think this is a great move. Gives us very solid depth at RB, something we've not had since James/Rhodes in my opinion. I've not been sold on Donald Brown ever since we drafted him, sure he has his moments but not consistently. Now with Ballard and Bradshaw in the backfield, we now will have the weapons we've been needing for years.

I agree with Brian C!  Nice first post, and welcome to the 'fun.'    "Weapons.......Oh for the weapons "  Marlon Brando?     

[BrentMc11]

Giants fan here

 

I agree with the sentiment that your team just got a heck of a lot better with this signing. Hopefully, Pagano won't lean on Bradshaw like a crutch the way TC used to do (if anything, this is more why Reese made the cut than anything else... he wanted TC to stop overusing Bradshaw). If you can avoid playing him into the ground, he will be a productive RB for the entire season.

 

Also, since your team actually has an OL that's worth a darn (the only OL in the NFCEast that's worth writing home about is the Redskins), Bradshaw will have a much easier time getting to the second level. And once he gets to linebackers, he's pretty much worth guaranteed yards. But when the OL can't form a hole (which is much of the time for the Giants), he often gets stopped at the line. It's worth noting that every AB highlight I have ever seen came on plays where the Giants OL actually gets their act together. 

 

Bradshaw is really good at grinding down a defense with his pure physicality. If I were on the Colts coaching staff, I would put Bradshaw in mostly during the first quarter, to start wearing down the linebackers, before switching to Ballard. That's basically the one-two punch the Giants had in 2010 and 2011: Bradshaw would wear down a defense over several series, and then Jacobs would punch it through. That was really something to watch... Before long you had Jacobs trucking the likes of Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis, and Laron Landry... which he probably wouldn't have been able to do without Bradshaw wearing them down.

I really like what you say here toad....

 

" Hopefully, Pagano won't lean on Bradshaw like a crutch the way TC used to do (if anything, this is more why Reese made the cut than anything else... he wanted TC to stop overusing Bradshaw). If you can avoid playing him into the ground, he will be a productive RB for the entire season."

 

To me...barring injury there is no reason to run Bradshaw into the ground.  In fact, with the reasonable deal it will be great to keep him fresh and physically able to give that 110% he has always been known for.

 

I think we are loaded for bear if we get blocking from the center right......Oh...forgot you are a Giants fan  OK...I like the Giants too!  

[BrentMc11]

So what do you do if Bradshaw goes down in Game 1? 

We need Donald for 'insurance'.  We can let go Carter.

I need to see this Williams kid play in the pros before I let ANY back go.

 

I see some thinking he is the second coming of Tony Dorsett   !!!  Looks more like the Honey Badger to me.

 

 

Dan Moore of Montana...the second Csonka.....pic he is running from a defensive lineman who just woke from a nap...

 

 

And what the heck can a Denodus (He may have snowed us) O'Bryant have that Carter and DB do not...went to Lindenwood.  Cottonwood was over-enrolled.  

 

[BrentMc11]

 

 

 

 

And what the heck can a Denodus (He may have snowed us) O'Bryant have that Carter and DB do not...went to Lindenwood.  Cottonwood was over-enrolled.  

 

Just noticed Denodus was waived yesterday!  Just got the memo.  

[BrentMc11]

I feel a need to ask all of the Vonta Leach lovers why they feel we have such a need for him.  The Ravens wanted him to lower from 3 years 11 million down to restructure.  "No."

 

 He was the highest paid fullback in the league, and has career rushes of 70 yards and 3 touchdowns.  Yes he is 260 and can block well.  He also is 31 years old (Ancient in this forum )  Someone says "He has 3 Pro-Bowls."  At fullback?  Who cares? We had Jerome Felton (26) in 2011 and he was in the Pro Bowl with the Vikes this past year.  He has been as 'serviceable' as Leach in terms of numbers. (Not keen on fullback stats)

 

If you like Leach I am fine with it because he IS a good fullback.  I think we should, however go to camp as is....and have a good old fashioned gun battle for positions!!!  I want to see how DB and Carter react...as well as the rooks....and of course Ballard and that Bradshaw fella!              !!!!!

[toadofsteel]

I really like what you say here toad....

" Hopefully, Pagano won't lean on Bradshaw like a crutch the way TC used to do (if anything, this is more why Reese made the cut than anything else... he wanted TC to stop overusing Bradshaw). If you can avoid playing him into the ground, he will be a productive RB for the entire season."

To me...barring injury there is no reason to run Bradshaw into the ground. In fact, with the reasonable deal it will be great to keep him fresh and physically able to give that 110% he has always been known for.

I think we are loaded for bear if we get blocking from the center right......Oh...forgot you are a Giants fan OK...I like the Giants too!

I keep reiterating that bradshaw's injuries are directly related to his play style. He runs hard and has just as much power as a guy with 50 pounds and 6 inches on him. (really the only rbs I have ever witnessed firsthand with more power than bradshaw are his like lynch, and jacobs in his prime...)

The problem is that bradshaw might have a really good game going for a while, and it might be hard to pull him. But you have to in order to save his feet. Even if hes on track to a 200 yard game.

Injury and decline is what caused coughlin to overplay bradshaw the past couple of years. In 2012, we had our own Brown (in this case Andre Brown, of "i gotta ring" fame), who had a good first half if the season, scoring 8 tds in 7 games. Then he fractured his fibula, ending his season. Coughlin still didn't trust the then-rookie David Wilson in pass protection, so Bradshaw got way more carries than he should get, lightly supplemented by some guys off the street. Had coughlin or OC kevin gilbride (we call him "killdrive" around here) designed some plays for wilson to release into routes on passing downs, they could have used him more. But Old Man Coughlin is a bit set in his ways (really the only knock I have on him), and so wilson was relegated to kick return, and bradshaw got run into the ground. Thats why he was so injured, and why I say that reese cut him... It was more to protect him from both coughlin and himself, so that he doesn't need a cane to get around at age 40

[Superman]

My point is that they can easily afford to cut him now, compared to last year where they really couldn't. 

 

I don't hate Donald Brown. The Colts don't necessarily have to cut him, they could like you said let him play during training camp, but do you really want a 2.7M dollar 3rd stringer, when there's Williams and Carter who can do that job and perhaps have a bigger impact (on ST too). 

 

Personally, I'd like to see the Colts give Kerwynn Williams the 3rd stringer job. He's the best receiving back and can have a big impact on special teams. Plus, he's 2M cheaper (cap hit wise). 

 

I think our difference is that I'm looking at the financials and you're looking at the ability. I don't believe that we should have a 2.7M 3rd stringer when there's Williams, and you think the best guy should be the 3rd stringer, regardless of the money. I don't think either or us are necessarily wrong or right. 

 

I don't think the financials are a major concern right now. The savings from releasing Brown is less than 1.4% of the cap. All things being equal, you'd look at the financials. But I don't think all things are equal. I think Brown is a better back than Carter and Williams at this point, until one of those two proves otherwise. And as such, you're not going to sacrifice the quality of your roster over 1.4% of the cap. It's not ideal, but if we kept Freeney at $14m last season, I don't think money is going to be the sticking point with Donald Brown.

 

Many of us are getting ahead of ourselves with Williams, also. I think we're seeing what his potential is, rather than what he actually is right now. There's just no way I can agree that he's our best receiving back right now. He's a rookie, not highly rated coming out, and while he showed ability to catch out of the backfield in college, the speed of the game makes receiving for a running back a completely different animal in the pros. I personally think he'll be fine as a receiver, but I'm not ready to crown him as our best guy just yet. And the real problem is that you have to be careful using him on third down because he's not a good pass blocker. Bradshaw and Brown would be ahead of him on third down for sure.

 

If Brown gets outplayed in camp and preseason, or if he gets hurt, that changes everything. But at this point, he's easily our third best back, and he's more versatile than the two guys behind him. It just doesn't make sense to me that he'd be cut over a $1.7m base salary. Not at this point.

[Superman]

I feel a need to ask all of the Vonta Leach lovers why they feel we have such a need for him.  The Ravens wanted him to lower from 3 years 11 million down to restructure.  "No."

 

 He was the highest paid fullback in the league, and has career rushes of 70 yards and 3 touchdowns.  Yes he is 260 and can block well.  He also is 31 years old (Ancient in this forum )  Someone says "He has 3 Pro-Bowls."  At fullback?  Who cares? We had Jerome Felton (26) in 2011 and he was in the Pro Bowl with the Vikes this past year.  He has been as 'serviceable' as Leach in terms of numbers. (Not keen on fullback stats)

 

If you like Leach I am fine with it because he IS a good fullback.  I think we should, however go to camp as is....and have a good old fashioned gun battle for positions!!!  I want to see how DB and Carter react...as well as the rooks....and of course Ballard and that Bradshaw fella!              !!!!!

 

I'm not a Leach lover. I think he's a really good fullback and would improve the quality of our roster. The only impediment would be the money, as I wouldn't want to give him anything more than a minimum contract. 

 

You can stop looking at stats also, by the way. He's a lead blocker, and they don't measure that with stats. Bottom line is he's a bone crusher that makes life easier on the players he's blocking for, and if you want to be a straight ahead running team (and look at all the one-cut runners we have), he fits your system.

 

I'm really happy with Havili, assuming he's healthy and can pick up the offense, and there's no reason to be concerned about either of those things. But Leach is better. 

[Valpo2004]

If we cut Donald Brown the savings would almost completely pay for Bradshaw's entire contract.  

 

Cap savings from cutting Donald Brown is 1.7 Million

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/donald-brown/

 

Bradshaw's cap hit is 1.9 million with all of the bonuses and the game incentives.  

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/ahmad-bradshaw/

[Superman]

If we cut Donald Brown the savings would almost completely pay for Bradshaw's entire contract.  

 

Cap savings from cutting Donald Brown is 1.7 Million

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/donald-brown/

 

Bradshaw's cap hit is 1.9 million with all of the bonuses and the game incentives.  

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/ahmad-bradshaw/

 

That's an interesting coincidence. I just don't see how it's justification for cutting Brown.

[BigMac]

I bet Donald Brown gets cut now, we really have no need for him anymore

 

I believe that may be the case. The Colts have a number one quality running back now. I expect him to have a great year to handle a good percentage of the carries and to catch passes out of the backfield too. He is a great upgrade as a blocker for Luck and that might save a big injury down the road.

[Warhorse]

LIttle did I know that Donald Brown is now the third string RB for this team. Amazing....the inside information that exists here.

 

Fans seem to always forget that running the ball is one protion of a RB's collective worth to the team. My guess as a worth (though I don't think you can actually give them a rating of importance because they are ALL important).

 

#1 Knowing the offense and the protections

#2 Executing the protections

#3 Running the ball

#4 Catching the ball out of the backfield.

[CR91]

bradshaw is gonna wear 44. mcnary changed to 48

[BrentMc11]

I'm not a Leach lover. I think he's a really good fullback and would improve the quality of our roster. The only impediment would be the money, as I wouldn't want to give him anything more than a minimum contract. 

 

You can stop looking at stats also, by the way. He's a lead blocker, and they don't measure that with stats. Bottom line is he's a bone crusher that makes life easier on the players he's blocking for, and if you want to be a straight ahead running team (and look at all the one-cut runners we have), he fits your system.

 

I'm really happy with Havili, assuming he's healthy and can pick up the offense, and there's no reason to be concerned about either of those things. But Leach is better. 

Like I said....I do not look at FB stats...and do not care about Pro Bowls as it relates to FBs..  Leach may be better...as a blocker....(I have never been a stat watcher....stats never tell the whole story)

 

We traded for Havilli...see what he has.  (Yes I know it was Geathers, but still a trade.)

Edited June 12, 2013 by Nadine
brent requested

[BrentMc11]

Only thing is Carter runs well but he runs well without the ball, I certainly think Carter has a place in this offense on power runs however but a Back isn't of any value if they cant hold onto the ball

There we go again with the horrible fumble problem....he has fumbled 5 times in his college and Colts career combined...Oh well...labelled a fumbler you are one...It killed us when he fumbled ing the 62-7 debacle at NO.  He is forever a fumbler.  Whatever!  I would love to see him behind some good blocking and get a chance.  Too bad it will be in Jacksonville when he hits us for 200 +  (OK...a little sarcastic as I intended )

[Valpo2004]

That's an interesting coincidence. I just don't see how it's justification for cutting Brown.

 

He get's paid more then everyone else and will be a 3rd string RB AT BEST.  Why pay a 3rd stringer that much money?  

 

That is a justification to me.  

[Rich Cannon]

What is Leachs' asking price I wonder.

[Superman]

He get's paid more then everyone else and will be a 3rd string RB AT BEST.  Why pay a 3rd stringer that much money?  

 

That is a justification to me.  

 

He's a third stringer in your mind, and maybe a lot of other people's minds. But a third stringer can easily become a first or second stringer. An injury to someone ahead of him, or a really good camp/preseason, or anything really, could change the depth chart in the blink of an eye.

 

And the term "third stringer" is a bit of a misnomer when talking about NFL running backs. It implies that he'll only play if something is wrong with one of the two ahead of him. In reality, NFL teams often use multiple backs throughout the course of a game. Maybe his role will be reduced, but that doesn't mean he won't have a role

 

Lastly -- and here's my point in relation to your previous post -- I don't think money is at issue here. If we release Donald Brown, it will free up cap space equal to about 1.4% of the cap. We're not up against the cap at this moment. It's not a big consideration right now, nor should it be, specifically because Brown can still fill a role on this team. And pending camp and preseason, he fills that role better than the two guys behind him.

 

All I'm saying is that time will tell who the best backs on the roster are. I think Brown is no worse than the third best running back on the team right now, and as such, I don't think he should be pushed out just because he makes more than the guys behind him. He's not being paid big money, and his skill set is beneficial to us.

[VaAllDay757]

Bye bye donald brown

[Douzer]

^{I like the addition of Bradshaw. His veteran wisdom will be passed down to the young running backs. That's a big value for this young offense. Also, he can carry the rock with power. The whole team benefits from a quality rotation of running backs who can move the chains. Good move Grigs!  2 cents worth.}

[coltsfanatic24]

I think some of you are underestimating Kerwynn Willams as a runner. Grigson just didn't draft him to be a kick returner he will get carries as well. He's probably the  best rb on the team once he gets the ball in space  has great quickness. He should be used the way the Saints use Sproles with screens and hb draws. I know some of you still believe in Brown but i can't after what ive seen from him the past 3 seasons. He just doesn't have any vision and his best quality is his speed but we have speed with Bradshaw and Williams. I also think Carter has more potential then Brown very physical runner but was never given the opportunities to succeed under Caldwell. It wouldn't surprise me if both Brown and Carter was cut leaving Ballard,Bradshaw,Williams, and Moore as the RB's on the roster but i do think Carter will make the team as the 4th RB or on practice team. Here's some of Williams highlights this guy has great vision and elusiveness should be 3rd RB on roster.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB1zHvUCb84

[aliveon2legs]

I don't think the financials are a major concern right now. The savings from releasing Brown is less than 1.4% of the cap.

 

You're looking at it wrong, though.  The total cap doesn't matter right now, what matters is the remaining cap.  The Colts could add another 22% on to their remaining cap by cutting Brown.  That's significant.  Injuries will happen at some point in the season, and they're going to need money to spend.

[MarshallPlan]

bradshaw is gonna wear 44. mcnary changed to 48

 

[Superman]

You're looking at it wrong, though.  The total cap doesn't matter right now, what matters is the remaining cap.  The Colts could add another 22% on to their remaining cap by cutting Brown.  That's significant.  Injuries will happen at some point in the season, and they're going to need money to spend.

 

I don't think any GM looks at their cap situation that way. The remaining cap is more than sufficient to address any needs the team might have over the season. And the cap picture will change as the final roster gets shaped up. Money only becomes the determining factor if he's not outperforming cheaper options. This entire discussion is premature.

 

It's also ironic that you mention the likelihood of injuries happening. You're promoting the idea of releasing a guy who provides experienced depth at a position that's likely to suffer injuries, and mostly due to us adding a player that is still recovering from surgery. 

 

If Brown isn't clearly the third best back on the team, at worst, after preseason, then I think he should be released. But that's about the good of the roster, not about cap space. All I'm saying is let's wait and see what happens during the camp competition before we start deciding to release a guy that can still play a role on our team.