Bone Head Move Of The Decade Goes To The Ravens

[amfootball]

Probably the remark was made to someone in the Baltimore press that blames Flacco for all the cap problems the Ravens have. No doubt that Flacco was made out to be a greedy pig that "gobbled up" too much cap space. Pretty bad when you put the blame on him for the Ravens letting other players go. No doubt in my mind this was happening as we saw ESPN calling Brady a savior and comparing that to the deal Flacco signed. I'm sure Linta is not a total * and this no doubt is what made him speak out.

You are probably right. I do think it is unfair to criticize Flacco because Brady signed the market extension. Flacco is 28 and whether we like it or not he hit the jackpot by winning the bowl in his contract year. I just think it is bad form by the agent to keep rubbing the Ravens noses in it. Who cares what ESPN says about Flacco or Brady? I mean really. They guy did a great job getting Flacco the biggest deal in the history of the league.

[dw49]

You are probably right. I do think it is unfair to criticize Flacco because Brady signed the market extension. Flacco is 28 and whether we like it or not he hit the jackpot by winning the bowl in his contract year. I just think it is bad form by the agent to keep rubbing the Ravens noses in it. Who cares what ESPN says about Flacco or Brady? I mean really. They guy did a great job getting Flacco the biggest deal in the history of the league.

 

 

Not sure that Linta "keeps rubbing their noses in it" as this is pretty much the first and only time I've heard Linta make these comments. However , as you say , it would have been far better for him just to keep his mouth shut. It's not nice to kick someone's butt and then laugh at them. 

[dw49]

I can't answer why QB's have not signed similar deals . For one thing I think the age and present contract would have to be the same "fit." Also maybe other teams cap needs are not the same. Could be that Tom Brady and Kraft have some kind of agreement to fix this if TB is still great at 38-40. Could be as you say that other guys wouldn't do what Brady did. I really don't know , just as I don't know what Brady will be worth at 39-40 years old. You really have to see how this plays out before you can assess what TB really did. What one cannot argue is that throughout his career , he has not been a greedy guy. There no doubt has been a spot or two that he could have squeezed more money. 

 

That is how I feel in a nutshell and I have nothing left to say as we have been over this multiple times. The last word is yours if you like.

[The Old Crow]

I'm not saying Joe Flacco is the top elite quarterback in the league, but look at the Raven's record in his first five years, and it's impressive:

 

2008 Regular Season  11-5

Playoffs : Beat Dolphins and Titans. Lost in AFC Championship Game to Pittsburgh 2-1

2009 Regular Season 9-7

Playoffs : Beat Patriots , lost to Colts 1-1

2010 Regular Season 12-4

Playoffs: Beat Chiefs, lost to Steelers 1-1

2011 Regular Season 12-4 Division Champions

Playoffs: Beat Texans. Lost to Patriots in AFC Championship game 1-1

2012 Regular Season 10-6 Division Champions

Playoffs: Beat Colts, Broncos, beat Patriots in AFC Championship game, won Super Bowl 47 vs. 49ers. 4-0

 

His resume as Raven's starting quarterback:

 

Regular Season Record: 54- 26

Playoff Record : 9-4

Division Titles Won : 2

AFC Titles Won : 1

Super Bowl Titles :1

AFC Title Championship game appearances : 3

 

When you see this on paper,maybe he's not Rodgers, but please don't compare him to Ryan and Romo. This man is a winner, and it is a five year record most organizations would envy. He has won more Super Bowl titles than Marino, one less than Elway, and is ties with Manning. He totally outplayed Brady the last two years in the AFC Championship game, and put another thumping on the Patriots 33-14 in another playoff game in 2009. He outplayed Manning in the Denver playoff game, and Luck in the Colt's game in Baltimore. He's reversed our fortunes against the Steelers, beating them in the division the last two years. You can argue pro bowl appearances , MVP's, and the like, but you can't deny this guy is a winner.

[Superman]

I'm not saying Joe Flacco is the top elite quarterback in the league, but look at the Raven's record in his first five years, and it's impressive:

 

2008 Regular Season  11-5

Playoffs : Beat Dolphins and Titans. Lost in AFC Championship Game to Pittsburgh 2-1

2009 Regular Season 9-7

Playoffs : Beat Patriots , lost to Colts 1-1

2010 Regular Season 12-4

Playoffs: Beat Chiefs, lost to Steelers 1-1

2011 Regular Season 12-4 Division Champions

Playoffs: Beat Texans. Lost to Patriots in AFC Championship game 1-1

2012 Regular Season 10-6 Division Champions

Playoffs: Beat Colts, Broncos, beat Patriots in AFC Championship game, won Super Bowl 47 vs. 49ers. 4-0

 

His resume as Raven's starting quarterback:

 

Regular Season Record: 54- 26

Playoff Record : 9-4

Division Titles Won : 2

AFC Titles Won : 1

Super Bowl Titles :1

AFC Title Championship game appearances : 3

 

When you see this on paper,maybe he's not Rodgers, but please don't compare him to Ryan and Romo. This man is a winner, and it is a five year record most organizations would envy. He has won more Super Bowl titles than Marino, one less than Elway, and is ties with Manning. He totally outplayed Brady the last two years in the AFC Championship game, and put another thumping on the Patriots 33-14 in another playoff game in 2009. He outplayed Manning in the Denver playoff game, and Luck in the Colt's game in Baltimore. He's reversed our fortunes against the Steelers, beating them in the division the last two years. You can argue pro bowl appearances , MVP's, and the like, but you can't deny this guy is a winner.

 

Meh. The Ravens have definitely had success with Flacco as the quarterback, but I hesitate to label him as the catalyst. When you say he has won more titles than Marino, your entire argument gets derailed, because no one in their right mind would argue that that makes him a better quarterback. 

 

Every accolade you list above is a team achievement. Flacco deserves some credit as the quarterback, but he also has had the privilege of playing for a pretty balanced team with good coaching and management. He has benefited from his environment as much as his environment has benefited from him, if not more. 

 

I also disagree with the idea that he outplayed his counterpart quarterbacks, just because his team won. He didn't put a thumping on the Patriots in 2009; he was 4-10, with 34 yards and a pick. He was just there. The Ravens are a winning franchise. I'm not sure how much that has to do with Joe Flacco.

[Dustin]

 

 

but please don't compare him to Ryan and Romo. 

 

I agree. It's almost insulting to Ryan to compare him to Flacco. Ryan is a top 4 QB in the league.

 

You can make the argument that Flacco is better than Romo if you want, but in no world is he better than Matt Ryan.

[amfootball]

I'm not saying Joe Flacco is the top elite quarterback in the league, but look at the Raven's record in his first five years, and it's impressive:

 

2008 Regular Season  11-5

Playoffs : Beat Dolphins and Titans. Lost in AFC Championship Game to Pittsburgh 2-1

2009 Regular Season 9-7

Playoffs : Beat Patriots , lost to Colts 1-1

2010 Regular Season 12-4

Playoffs: Beat Chiefs, lost to Steelers 1-1

2011 Regular Season 12-4 Division Champions

Playoffs: Beat Texans. Lost to Patriots in AFC Championship game 1-1

2012 Regular Season 10-6 Division Champions

Playoffs: Beat Colts, Broncos, beat Patriots in AFC Championship game, won Super Bowl 47 vs. 49ers. 4-0

 

His resume as Raven's starting quarterback:

 

Regular Season Record: 54- 26

Playoff Record : 9-4

Division Titles Won : 2

AFC Titles Won : 1

Super Bowl Titles :1

AFC Title Championship game appearances : 3

 

When you see this on paper,maybe he's not Rodgers, but please don't compare him to Ryan and Romo. This man is a winner, and it is a five year record most organizations would envy. He has won more Super Bowl titles than Marino, one less than Elway, and is ties with Manning. He totally outplayed Brady the last two years in the AFC Championship game, and put another thumping on the Patriots 33-14 in another playoff game in 2009. He outplayed Manning in the Denver playoff game, and Luck in the Colt's game in Baltimore. He's reversed our fortunes against the Steelers, beating them in the division the last two years. You can argue pro bowl appearances , MVP's, and the like, but you can't deny this guy is a winner.

I am not sure who has been comparing Flacoo to Ryan and Romo but a guy that has won 9 playoff games and a ring vs. Qbs that have one playoff win are not in the same league. But along the same vein, it is hard to put Flacco alongside the other one ring winners - Manning, Brees, Rodgers because he just simply does not do what those guys do. That being said, I like Joe a lot and I think now that Lewis and Reed are gone, the team will be his. He has a chance to show what he can do and prove he is the guy that can carry this team. He is only 28 and already has a ring. Really no pressure for him other than that wopping contract that Ravens fans will start to squawk about if he falters next year.

[mvbighead]

I agree. It's almost insulting to Ryan to compare him to Flacco. Ryan is a top 4 QB in the league.

 

You can make the argument he's better than Romo if you want, but in no world is he better than Matt Ryan.

 

Really?  127td/60int vs 102td/56.  18957 yds vs. 17633yds.  90.9 vs. 86.3 career passer rating.

 

From those numbers, the guys are quite close, with Ryan getting the slight edge in all categories.

 

But when you look at the post season, Ryan has been in 5 games compared to Flacco's 13.  While his numbers aren't great in the playoffs, his team wins many games there.  You can put that on the defense, but by and large, the QB stands the biggest chance to affect that game for better or worse, and his team has simply played in more games than Ryan.

 

At this point, I'd consider it a push.  In no way is Ryan heads and tails better than Flacco.  In the regular season, sure.  But where it counts, Flacco simply does what is necessary to give his team wins.

 

Now, is he better than Ryan?  Well, some would argue that a QB is only as good as his win/loss record in the SB.  Heck, doubters clung to that to suggest that Manning wasn't good.  But in that category, Ryan is trailing.  And as far as 100% of teams are concerned, the SB is the single biggest achievement a QB can make.  Ryan hasn't been there.  Flacco has, and won.  That alone gives him pretty good edge over Ryan.  Granted, it was one heckuva run in the post season, but he did it, and Ryan did not.

[Superman]

I agree. It's almost insulting to Ryan to compare him to Flacco. Ryan is a top 4 QB in the league.

 

You can make the argument that Flacco is better than Romo if you want, but in no world is he better than Matt Ryan.

 

I have Matt Ryan at #7, personally, behind both Mannings, Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees and Rodgers. Flacco is #8 on my list after this last postseason, but entire body of work, Ryan is far more impressive to me.

[Superman]

Really?  127td/60int vs 102td/56.  18957 yds vs. 17633yds.  90.9 vs. 86.3 career passer rating.

 

From those numbers, the guys are quite close, with Ryan getting the slight edge in all categories.

 

But when you look at the post season, Ryan has been in 5 games compared to Flacco's 13.  While his numbers aren't great in the playoffs, his team wins many games there.  You can put that on the defense, but by and large, the QB stands the biggest chance to affect that game for better or worse, and his team has simply played in more games than Ryan.

 

At this point, I'd consider it a push.  In no way is Ryan heads and tails better than Flacco.  In the regular season, sure.  But where it counts, Flacco simply does what is necessary to give his team wins.

 

Now, is he better than Ryan?  Well, some would argue that a QB is only as good as his win/loss record in the SB.  Heck, doubters clung to that to suggest that Manning wasn't good.  But in that category, Ryan is trailing.  And as far as 100% of teams are concerned, the SB is the single biggest achievement a QB can make.  Ryan hasn't been there.  Flacco has, and won.  That alone gives him pretty good edge over Ryan.  Granted, it was one heckuva run in the post season, but he did it, and Ryan did not.

 

 

To the bolded, that's only been true in Flacco's last few playoffs games. He's getting a lot of credit for postseason success that he was only along for the ride on.

 

Like I said before, I have Ryan firmly ahead of Flacco, and it's only because of this last postseason that Flacco is even close. 

 

And this whole Super Bowl appearance/win issue is like we're back in 2005 again. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are ahead of Dan Marino, Warren Moon, etc. Even though the quarterback affects the game more than any other one player (usually), just because a quarterback has a Super Bowl doesn't mean he's better than a quarterback that doesn't have a Super Bowl. 

[Superman]

I am not sure who has been comparing Flacoo to Ryan and Romo but a guy that has won 9 playoff games and a ring vs. Qbs that have one playoff win are not in the same league. 

 

That is such lazy analysis. And I use the word "analysis" loosely.

[Dustin]

Really?  127td/60int vs 102td/56.  18957 yds vs. 17633yds.  90.9 vs. 86.3 career passer rating.

 

From those numbers, the guys are quite close, with Ryan getting the slight edge in all categories.

 

But when you look at the post season, Ryan has been in 5 games compared to Flacco's 13.  While his numbers aren't great in the playoffs, his team wins many games there.  You can put that on the defense, but by and large, the QB stands the biggest chance to affect that game for better or worse, and his team has simply played in more games than Ryan.

 

At this point, I'd consider it a push.  In no way is Ryan heads and tails better than Flacco.  In the regular season, sure.  But where it counts, Flacco simply does what is necessary to give his team wins.

 

Now, is he better than Ryan?  Well, some would argue that a QB is only as good as his win/loss record in the SB.  Heck, doubters clung to that to suggest that Manning wasn't good.  But in that category, Ryan is trailing.  And as far as 100% of teams are concerned, the SB is the single biggest achievement a QB can make.  Ryan hasn't been there.  Flacco has, and won.  That alone gives him pretty good edge over Ryan.  Granted, it was one heckuva run in the post season, but he did it, and Ryan did not.

 

Going by the last 3 years, Ryan is far more accurate and better under pressure (Especially this last season). Only a few QBs in the league are better than him in those 2 categories (the most important categories imo)

 

Using wins as an indicator of success is such a terrible way to judge QB play. It's completely flawed to give one player credit for a win or a loss when there are 52 other players on the team.

 

If the 2008 draft happened again Ryan would go #1 overall 10 times out of 10.

[Dustin]

I have Matt Ryan at #7, personally, behind both Mannings, Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees and Rodgers. Flacco is #8 on my list after this last postseason, but entire body of work, Ryan is far more impressive to me.

 

Mine goes:

 

Rodgers

Manning

Ryan

Brady

Brees

Eli

Roethlisberger

Flacco

 

The only reason Flacco is #8 is out of respect for his Super Bowl. I can name 4 other QBs I would take over him on potential alone.

[Superman]

Mine goes:

 

Rodgers

Manning

Ryan

Brady

Brees

Eli

Roethlisberger

Flacco

 

The only reason Flacco is #8 is out of respect for his Super Bowl. I can name 4 other QBs I would take over him on potential alone.

 

I have my first four in a group, ranking be darned: Brees, Rodgers, Brady, P. Manning. Put them in whatever order you want.

 

Then, in order, it's Roethlisberger, E. Manning, Ryan, Flacco. We can argue whether Ryan should be higher or not, that's fine. But we agree, for sure, that Ryan is ahead of Flacco, and that Flacco is only at #8 because of the way he played this postseason. And like you, if I were picking a quarterback right now, there are a handful of other guys that I'd take over Flacco based on ability and talent.

[Gavin]

If I had to make a top 10 it would probably be something like this

 

1.Peyton Manning

2.Tom Brady

3.Drew Brees

4.Aaron Rodgers

5.Matt Ryan

6.Eli Manning

7.Ben Roethlisberger

8.Matt Schaub

9.Joe Flacco

10.Tony Romo

 

None of those have to do with playoff wins or losses even though some have better records then others in the playoffs and some have rings and some dont

[John Dee]

Joe F

 

First couple season's stats...    in playoffs...

 

1  TD      6  INTS      3-2  PLAYOFF record

 

His LAST 3 years in the postseason are REALLY IMPRESSIVE> 

 

18  TD       2  INTS       6-2   PLAYOFF  record

 

I don't care how you slice it....     Dude was getting it done in the crunch...... 

 

 

 

Lets compare these digits to Peyton Manning's PLAYOFF numbers.......

 

heehe .. .    Or lets not...

[Dustin]

 

 

 

 

Lets compare these digits to Peyton Manning's PLAYOFF numbers.......

 

heehe .. .    Or lets not...

 

Ok lets.

 

Peyton Manning: 32 TDs, 21 INTS, 63.21% completion. 88.4 passer rating (10th all time), 7.46 YPA

 

Flacco: 19 TDs (11 of which came in one year), 8 INTS, 55.5% completion percentage, 82.5 passer rating (25th all time) , 7.16 YPA

[John Dee]

Look at JOE's last 3 years in the playoffs.....    

 

 

OH.. and YOU for got to post the Win vs Loss record is these PLAYOFF GAMES...    convenient.. 

 

It does count ....         doesn't it?

 

Every great QB in the NFL is judged on TITLES.      Not numbers.

[Dustin]

Look at JOE's last 3 years in the playoffs.....    

 

Why? He played the first 2 year as well right?

 

 

 

OH.. and YOU for got to post the Win vs Loss record is these PLAYOFF GAMES...    convenient.. 

 

 

Wins are a team stat. No one player should get credits for wins and losses.

 

 

 

It does count ....         doesn't it?

 

 

 

Sure they count. Just not towards if you're a good QB or not. You know: Dilfer, Plunkett, Johnson, ect....

 

 

 

Every great QB in the NFL is judged on TITLES.      Not numbers.

 

Trivia Question: Which one of these two players are in the HOF?

 

A. Dan Marino

 

B. Jim Plunkett

[Dustin]

but a guy that has won 9 playoff games and a ring vs. Qbs that have one playoff win are not in the same league

 

Wow, you could work for ESPN with that hard hitting analysis. 

[John Dee]

Dustin....

 

Flacco is emerging as a great QB, and one that gets it done in the clutch.      Flacco is all of 29 yrs old.     Your MANning love will not change it.

 

Peyton was disappointing in the playoffs...      I don't know how you can possibly dispute it?

 

One third of Manning's  TD's in the playoffs happened in 2 games.     he has played in 20.   (with INDY)

 

Hey man I would take Manning if a choice had to be made.       But facts are facts.....

 

And they don't cease to exist because they are ignored....      hehee.. 

[John Dee]

I guarantee you Dan M would give his left arm for a SB RING.

 

Why? He played the first 2 year as well right?

 

 

Wins are a team stat. No one player should get credits for wins and losses.

 

 

Sure they count. Just not towards if you're a good QB or not. You know: Dilfer, Plunkett, Johnson, ect....

 

 

Trivia Question: Which one of these two players are in the HOF?

 

A. Dan Marino

 

B. Jim Plunkett

[Dustin]

Dustin....

 

Flacco is emerging as a great QB, and one that gets it done in the clutch.      Flacco is all of 29 yrs old.     

 

I agree, with Caldwell as his OC he could possibly take the next step to elite status. 

 

 

 

Peyton was disappointing in the playoffs...      I don't know how you can possibly dispute it?

 

 

 

I'm not. As a team with Peyton at the helm we severely under-achieved. The difference is that when Peyton played bad we lost. When Flacco played bad they won. That's what a good defense will do for you.

 

 

 

 

One third of Manning's  TD's in the playoffs happened in 2 games.     he has played in 20. 

 

 Ok and 58% of Flacco's have been in 4 games. Not sure what your point is.

 

 

 

 

 

And they don't cease to exist because they are ignored....      hehee.. 

 

How did I ignore facts? lol. I gave you that stats. Statistically Peyton is better in the playoffs. The difference is that the Ravens could carry Flacco when he played bad. Most of Peyton's Colt's team couldn't do that.

 

I guarantee you Dan M would give his left arm for a SB RING.

 

He probably would, but this doesn't make Plunkett better or Marino worse. The goal is to get a super bowl, but nobody in their right mind would say Plunkett is better than Marno.

[dw49]

Just a few words on Ryan for what it's worth. I do think he's very good but it must be nice throwing to two no 1's and Tony Gonzales.

[John Dee]

blah, blah, blah...       D.

 

 

Carry on...

[Yehoodi]

Ok lets.

 

Peyton Manning: 32 TDs, 21 INTS, 63.21% completion. 88.4 passer rating (10th all time), 7.46 YPA

 

Flacco: 19 TDs (11 of which came in one year), 8 INTS, 55.5% completion percentage, 82.5 passer rating (25th all time) , 7.16 YPA

 

Yes those 11 TDs came in 4 of his games . . . but then at the same time shall we look at the 12 TDs in 3 of Peyton's games (Den '03 and '04 and KC '03) and the associated QB ratings  of those games and how they effect the overall totals . . . just curious seeing that we want to qualify a certain portion of the games and how the same effects the overall totals in the QB's benefit . . .

 

Yes Flacco might not be a first ballot HOFer and may not even get into the HOF, but you can't knock the guy . . . he has played long enough and well enough to separate him from the Mark Sanchez image - right place right time and garnered some playoff wins . . . he has that plus last year to top it all off . . .

 

Also we must remember that he is only in his 5th year and so his playoff records are based in his first 5 years as a pro, and as such, we must be mindful of the numbers might not be the same as when one is in his prime . . .

 

yes Baltimore is good but that we not the best in the middle part of the decade . . . also Flacco, unlike some of the other QBs mentioned in this thread, is in a division with a 2 time (3 time appearance) SB Pittsburgh Steelers . . .

[Gavin]

Just a few words on Ryan for what it's worth. I do think he's very good but it must be nice throwing to two no 1's and Tony Gonzales.

But put Curtis Painter or some other no namer back there and White and Jones look average at best and probably not even that

[Dustin]

Yes those 11 TDs came in 4 of his games . . . but then at the same time shall we look at the 12 TDs in 3 of Peyton's games (Den '03 and '04 and KC '03) and the associated QB ratings  of those games and how they effect the overall totals . . . just curious seeing that we want to qualify a certain portion of the games and how the same effects the overall totals in the QB's benefit . . .

 

 

 

I'm just pointing out that his only "great" playoff run was the 2012 postseason and that he hasn't been consistent throughout the postseason like people here try to make him as.

[Yehoodi]

I have Matt Ryan at #7, personally, behind both Mannings, Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees and Rodgers. Flacco is #8 on my list after this last postseason, but entire body of work, Ryan is far more impressive to me.

 

Just curious about your analysis between Eli and Flacco . . . for kicks lets take away the SBs seeing that those are the purported "team accomplishments". . . do you still think Eli is better and if so why?  I got them as a push and have Flacco edging out Eli . . . Flacco is a division with the Steelers, has a better regular season record than Eli, Eli turns the ball over more, Flacco has a higher QB rating (given that has been used in this thread already), and Eli was the QB of a team that nearly got his coach fired not once but twice . . . thoughts? 

 

btw, I have Big Ben ahead of both of them . . .

[Yehoodi]

Mine goes:

 

Rodgers

Manning

Ryan

Brady

Brees

Eli

Roethlisberger

Flacco

 

The only reason Flacco is #8 is out of respect for his Super Bowl. I can name 4 other QBs I would take over him on potential alone.

 

when you get a few moments please look at my prior post to Superman regarding Eli and Flacco . . . I got them as a push with Flacco edging out Eli . . . what are some of your thoughts as to why you have Eli ahead of Flacco? . . .

[Yehoodi]

I'm just pointing out that his only "great" playoff run was the 2012 postseason and that he hasn't been consistent throughout the postseason like people here try to make him as.

 

no he is not a dominate QB in the five years and some should not try to portray that and yes a team around the QB does help . . . but the team around you can only take the QB so far and sooner or later the QB will eventually help out his team to wins and/or garner the traditional QB stats . . . and Flacco has done this . . .

 

We both love our respective QBs (Brady and Manning) but even they have had help from the team to wins in the playoffs and at time both have helped the team . . . time will tell about flacco, but at is stands now in this 5 year sample he has had help from his team and he has provided help to his team in some games . . . which even the great QBs have had . . .

 

I am not the biggest flacco fan and yes I do kind of look down on him  . . . but at the same time one really can't argue with the last two years, 6 games, in the playoffs, he has played solid . . . who knows if he had AV like Brady and Manning, maybe they hit the FG and it goes into OT . . . also if the pats DB did not make a great break up in the endzone the Ravens win in 2011 . . . maybe flacco has two rings to Eli's one . . .  

 

So flacco is really not a one year wonder in the playoff, he has two solid years in the playoffs . . .

 

however now that some of his teammates are gone it will be interesting to see how he does . . . 

 

And just a footnote about the 2009 pats game . . . the ravens got up on the pats really early, and as such, the Ravens where not passing as much in that game as they otherwise would have and so flacco did not have the opportunity he might of had in a normal playoff game . . .

[Dustin]

when you get a few moments please look at my prior post to Superman regarding Eli and Flacco . . . I got them as a push with Flacco edging out Eli . . . what are some of your thoughts as to why you have Eli ahead of Flacco? . . .

 

Since 2008 for Eli:

 

21,078 yards (4037 a season) 134 TDs (27 a season) 7.6 YPA, 61.3% completion, 4.7% TD, Passer Rating of 90.

 

For Flacco: 17,633 yards (3526 a season), 102 TDs (20 a season) 7.1 YPA, 60.5% completion, 4.1% TD Passer Rating of 86.3.

 

Only thing Flacco is better at is not throwing interception.

[Superman]

Just curious about your analysis between Eli and Flacco . . . for kicks lets take away the SBs seeing that those are the purported "team accomplishments". . . do you still think Eli is better and if so why?  I got them as a push and have Flacco edging out Eli . . . Flacco is a division with the Steelers, has a better regular season record than Eli, Eli turns the ball over more, Flacco has a higher QB rating (given that has been used in this thread already), and Eli was the QB of a team that nearly got his coach fired not once but twice . . . thoughts? 

 

btw, I have Big Ben ahead of both of them . . .

 

I think Eli has experienced peaks in his career that Flacco hasn't. Due to their respective roles on their teams, some of Flacco's numbers are a little bit better, specifically turnovers, but for the most part, Eli is more productive.

 

I also think Eli is more of a propellant for his team's success than Flacco has been. 

 

I'm not sure how it's relevant that Coughlin has been on the hot seat at times; that's not due to failures on Eli's part. Heck, is it Peyton's fault that Jim Mora got fired?

[Superman]

I guarantee you Dan M would give his left arm for a SB RING.

 

Hyperbole aside, I agree. That doesn't make Jim Plunkett a better quarterback.

[Superman]

And just a footnote about the 2009 pats game . . . the ravens got up on the pats really early, and as such, the Ravens where not passing as much in that game as they otherwise would have and so flacco did not have the opportunity he might of had in a normal playoff game . . .

 

Show me another quarterback in the top eight in the NFL whose team can win a playoff game with him going 4-10 with 34 yards and a pick. 

 

Even Tim Tebow got a touchdown pass in the win against the Steelers.

 

And the point isn't that that game lessens Flacco; it's just one game. The point is that you can't say "Flacco beat the Patriots 33-14 in the playoffs." Flacco had very little to do with the outcome of that game.

[John Dee]

Please remind me where I EVER SAID Jim Plunkett..   (a 2x SB winning QB and former #1 NFL draft pick)  was "better"

 

I said QB's are JUDGED by WINS.         and Championships.  

 

and it is TRUE...      right or wrong?       that is for Skip Bayless and the rest of the talking heads to decide.

Hyperbole aside, I agree. That doesn't make Jim Plunkett a better quarterback.

[John Dee]

Right On Bro...     Facts are Facts......

Yes those 11 TDs came in 4 of his games . . . but then at the same time shall we look at the 12 TDs in 3 of Peyton's games (Den '03 and '04 and KC '03) and the associated QB ratings  of those games and how they effect the overall totals . . . just curious seeing that we want to qualify a certain portion of the games and how the same effects the overall totals in the QB's benefit . . .

 

Yes Flacco might not be a first ballot HOFer and may not even get into the HOF, but you can't knock the guy . . . he has played long enough and well enough to separate him from the Mark Sanchez image - right place right time and garnered some playoff wins . . . he has that plus last year to top it all off . . .

 

Also we must remember that he is only in his 5th year and so his playoff records are based in his first 5 years as a pro, and as such, we must be mindful of the numbers might not be the same as when one is in his prime . . .

 

yes Baltimore is good but that we not the best in the middle part of the decade . . . also Flacco, unlike some of the other QBs mentioned in this thread, is in a division with a 2 time (3 time appearance) SB Pittsburgh Steelers . . .

[Superman]

Please remind me where I EVER SAID Jim Plunkett..   (a 2x SB winning QB and former #1 NFL draft pick)  was "better"

 

I said QB's are JUDGED by WINS.         and Championships.  

 

and it is TRUE...      right or wrong?       that is for Skip Bayless and the rest of the talking heads to decide.

 

Some people judge quarterbacks by wins and championships, and I agree that those criteria have a place in the discussion. In this case, Flacco's ring puts him into the top eight.

 

But I'd be guilty of a gross understatement if I said that using wins and championships as the sole criteria, or even as the biggest criteria, in judging quarterbacks is a mistake. 

 

So, whether Marino would give his left arm for a Super Bowl or not has little bearing on how history judges him as a quarterback. Just because rings are important doesn't mean that a quarterback with a ring gets ranked ahead of a quarterback without a ring. Like Dustin said, Marino is in the HOF, Plunkett isn't. And Plunkett has two rings. So actually, it's NOT entirely true that quarterbacks are judged by wins and championships, because if that were the case, Plunkett would be in the HOF, not Marino.

[John Dee]

I agree with you.....

 

To a certain extent....    but W's matter...      plain and simple.   \

 

 

IN the NFL they are HUGE.

 

Andrew Luck will provide them...  fear not

 

 

Some people judge quarterbacks by wins and championships, and I agree that those criteria have a place in the discussion. In this case, Flacco's ring puts him into the top eight.

 

But I'd be guilty of a gross understatement if I said that using wins and championships as the sole criteria, or even as the biggest criteria, in judging quarterbacks is a mistake. 

 

So, whether Marino would give his left arm for a Super Bowl or not has little bearing on how history judges him as a quarterback. Just because rings are important doesn't mean that a quarterback with a ring gets ranked ahead of a quarterback without a ring. Like Dustin said, Marino is in the HOF, Plunkett isn't. And Plunkett has two rings. So actually, it's NOT entirely true that quarterbacks are judged by wins and championships, because if that were the case, Plunkett would be in the HOF, not Marino.

[Superman]

Just as an exercise:

 

Manning's projections -- 15 seasons as a starter, 58,200 yards, 61% completions, 390 touchdowns, 262 interceptions

 

Flacco's projections -- 15 seasons as a starter, 52,899 yards, 61% completions, 306 touchdowns, 168 interceptions

 

Ryan's projections -- 15 seasons as a starter, 56,871 yards, 64% completions, 381 touchdowns, 180 interceptions