Bone Head Move Of The Decade Goes To The Ravens

[dw49]

I would think this would be on Ozzie Newsome and if so , I will forever chuckle when I hear what a genius he is. If this story told by his agent is true  and it would be ridiculously ignorant if it's fabricated , Ozzie should really wear a dunce cap for this one. I imagine that this became a bit of a "peeing" match and each side probably thought the other was being stubborn over the extra million at the end of year 6 . So they ended up sticking by their "principles" and walked. But if you think you have your franchise QB and fail to "lock him up" for the future over a million bucks , you are not too smart.

 

 

 

Here ya go......

 

 

 

 

Flacco's agent: Ravens should have paid QB sooner

117

 

 

By Dan Hanzus

Around the League Writer

Published: May 26, 2013 at 01:20 p.m. Updated: May 26, 2013 at 07:35 p.m.

 

Joe Flacco might be the all-time poster boy for good timing in free agency.

 

The walk year of Flacco's contract coincided with a season in which he emerged as a star, silenced his critics and netted a Lombardi Trophy for the Baltimore Ravens.

 

 

The result of that rise was a six-year contract worth $120.6 million. A staggering $52 million was fully guaranteed.

 

Did the massive nature of Flacco's contract lead -- at least in part -- to the exodus of Ravens such as Anquan Boldin, Ed Reed, Paul Kruger and Dannell Ellerbe? The ensuing criticism both was predictable and unfair.

 

Flacco's agent, Joe Linta, explained that the Ravens have no one to blame but themselves for any salary-cap issues. According to Linta, Flacco walked away from a five-year extension that would have averaged $16 million a year last summer. Why? The Ravens were unwilling to add $1 million more to the final year of that deal, according to Linta.

 

"One million dollars six years from now, in the base salary non-guaranteed money, and they walked away," Linta recently told USA Today's Jim Corbett. "It cost them $35 million. So I have no sympathy. None.

 

 

[amfootball]

Yes, I read this earlier today. You know I wonder if Joe would have played the same way this past season had he gotten his big contract. He obviously played with a chip on his shoulder in his contract year and it yielded a historic playoff run for the ages capped by a SB MVP. I suppose you can take shots at Ozzie but the goal is to win the SB which he did with a QB that no one thought could go on the type of playoff run that he did. I think it is all gravy for Ozzie honestly. He may wish he signed Joe but by the same token I think he is also smart enough to know that he also may not have a SB win either. Pretty much a catch 22...

[NewColtsFan]

No GM is perfect and while I'm reluctant to takes sides with an agents,  I must admit this is a whopper of a mistake.

 

Ozzie is among the very best GM's out there - mistake, or not mistake.

 

His strength is scouting and drafting.    But to lose a significantly better deal over $1 Million of non-guaranteed money over the last year of a deal is pretty mind-boggling.

 

I doubt Ozzie operates in a vacuum.   I doubt the owner is just reading about this story now.   I'm sure he was in the loop.   We're talking about the franchise QB.    So,  everyone in the Ravens front office dropped the ball on this one.

 

But this was a big fumble over what amounts to chump change.   Seriously,  this is pennies found between the seat cushions of the owners couch.

 

A very, very costly brain cramp.

[dw49]

No GM is perfect and while I'm reluctant to takes sides with an agents,  I must admit this is a whopper of a mistake.

 

Ozzie is among the very best GM's out there - mistake, or not mistake.

 

His strength is scouting and drafting.    But to lose a significantly better deal over $1 Million of non-guaranteed money over the last year of a deal is pretty mind-boggling.

 

I doubt Ozzie operates in a vacuum.   I doubt the owner is just reading about this story now.   I'm sure he was in the loop.   We're talking about the franchise QB.    So,  everyone in the Ravens front office dropped the ball on this one.

 

But this was a big fumble over what amounts to chump change.   Seriously,  this is pennies found between the seat cushions of the owners couch.

 

A very, very costly brain cramp.

 

 

 

No question the Ravens have done well bringing in good talent and this too falls on Ozzie. Can't place the blame without giving credit also. I agree that the whole organization had to be aware of the million $ baffle , but I would think that if he said to Brisciotti that they needed to pony up a few more bucks and put it to bed , he would have had no problem with this. Can you imagine Grigson asking for 81 mill over 6 years rather than 80 mil and Irsay saying no ? Your right that maybe Brisciotti should have stepped in and made hi do the deal but sometimes owners leave this stuff to the GM's.

[dw49]

Yes, I read this earlier today. You know I wonder if Joe would have played the same way this past season had he gotten his big contract. He obviously played with a chip on his shoulder in his contract year and it yielded a historic playoff run for the ages capped by a SB MVP. I suppose you can take shots at Ozzie but the goal is to win the SB which he did with a QB that no one thought could go on the type of playoff run that he did. I think it is all gravy for Ozzie honestly. He may wish he signed Joe but by the same token I think he is also smart enough to know that he also may not have a SB win either. Pretty much a catch 22...

 

 

I would tend to think that Flacco would have been Flacco with or without the new contract. He really was just "above average " during the regular season. IMO , much of the post season stuff was due to some pretty great luck and Boldin. I can't prove what you say is false but I'm not buying it. No offense , but somehow you have a knack for turning a thread into something that people could argue back and forth for 25 years with neither side CONCLUSIVELY winning the debate. Kinda like the Colts' tanking. I don't mean this as confrontational but it's true.

[NewColtsFan]

No question the Ravens have done well bringing in good talent and this too falls on Ozzie. Can't place the blame without giving credit also. I agree that the whole organization had to be aware of the million $ baffle , but I would think that if he said to Brisciotti that they needed to pony up a few more bucks and put it to bed , he would have had no problem with this. Can you imagine Grigson asking for 81 mill over 6 years rather than 80 mil and Irsay saying no ? Your right that maybe Brisciotti should have stepped in and made hi do the deal but sometimes owners leave this stuff to the GM's.

 

Actually,  I'm not say Brisciotti should have stepped up....   I have no problem with him following his successful GM's advice...  I'm only saying I'm sure he was in on the conversation....   that this wasn't a surprise to him.    That this wasn't done in a vacuum.    That's all.

 

But,  you're right and the agent is right,  it's a stunning brain cramp for such a well run franchise....   incredibly penny-wise and pound-foolish.

 

This one earns the Ravens a whopping     

[Gavin]

Hmm anyone aware if the Ravens dont make that stand on defense inside the 10 then Flacco would not be a SB champ, the word elite would not be uttered by anyone  and Flacco would not be having this big deal he got? Now I get Ozzie took a gamble and he lost but come on Flacco has not exactly been the poster boy for putting up big numbers, Hes been the poster boy for being a game manager up until this past years playoffs, This dont suddenly make Ozzie a bad GM, He got burned sure but its not been a habit of it like some teams GM's

[BOTT]

Before the playoff run Flacco wasn't worth 16m, let alone 17m.

[dw49]

Before the playoff run Flacco wasn't worth 16m, let alone 17m.

 

 

No... that wouldn't be the right math. It was a total of 1 million over 5 years. So the above should read "Before the playoff run Flacco wasn't worth 16m , let alone 16.2 mill.

 

 

From the link....

 

 

" The Ravens were unwilling to add $1 million more to the final year of that deal, according to Linta."

[dw49]

Hmm anyone aware if the Ravens dont make that stand on defense inside the 10 then Flacco would not be a SB champ, the word elite would not be uttered by anyone  and Flacco would not be having this big deal he got? Now I get Ozzie took a gamble and he lost but come on Flacco has not exactly been the poster boy for putting up big numbers, Hes been the poster boy for being a game manager up until this past years playoffs, This dont suddenly make Ozzie a bad GM, He got burned sure but its not been a habit of it like some teams GM'

 

 

So am I to understand that if they called PI on the 4th down play and SF went on to win , Flacco would not have got the deal he got? The 11-0 TD run in the playoffs would be discounted ? I'm not sure how good Flacco is and I won't say he might not be over paid. But you have to look at last year's playoff performance where a dropped pass wasted outplaying Brady and add to it the incredible run this year and take it from there.

 

Your kind of putting words in my mouth if you are saying I'm calling Newsome a bad GM. What I'm saying is if you offer a QB a 5 year deal for 80 million and then decide you are going to play chicken for 200K per year is not a great business decision.You really put yourself in a no win situation. To be right ... you have to be wrong and hope Flacco poops the bed. So now you pay him less or don't extend him at all. If you were right in offering him 16 mill and don't sign him for the few extra bucks , you take it right in the chops and look pretty silly. Fact of all this is if Newsome felt Flacco was his franchise QB , 16 mill was a fair price . He must have thought that if he offered that much money. Flacco and or his agent asked for a little "bone" and to walk away was stupid as if Newsome was right .. he had way more than 1 mill to lose. So unless he really didn't believe in his convictions regarding Flacco's talent .. this was indeed "bone headed." 

[Gavin]

So am I to understand that if they called PI on the 4th down play and SF went on to win , Flacco would not have got the deal he got? The 11-0 TD run in the playoffs would be discounted ? I'm not sure how good Flacco is and I won't say he might not be over paid. But you have to look at last year's playoff performance where a dropped pass wasted outplaying Brady and add to it the incredible run this year and take it from there.

 

Your kind of putting words in my mouth if you are saying I'm calling Newsome a bad GM. What I'm saying is if you offer a QB a 5 year deal for 80 million and then decide you are going to play chicken for 200K per year is not a great business decision.You really put yourself in a no win situation. To be right ... you have to be wrong and hope Flacco poops the bed. So now you pay him less or don't extend him at all. If you were right in offering him 16 mill and don't sign him for the few extra bucks , you take it right in the chops and look pretty silly. Fact of all this is if Newsome felt Flacco was his franchise QB , 16 mill was a fair price . He must have thought that if he offered that much money. Flacco and or his agent asked for a little "bone" and to walk away was stupid as if Newsome was right .. he had way more than 1 mill to lose. So unless he really didn't believe in his convictions regarding Flacco's talent .. this was indeed "bone headed." 

Im saying what he did in the regular season would have counted much much more then it did in the deal, the 11 td's and 0 picks are great in the playoffs, elite even no question thats undebatable and that alone would have likely got him a great deal but prior to that he was barely average in the playoffs with 9 TD's and 8 Int's and a 57.8 completion percentage add that to his 12.75 average td passes per year, rounded up 13 and you got yourself an average QB who had a elite 4 game stretch...He is good...But not great and certainly not elite, I want to see him perform big consistently over the course of a full season

[dw49]

Actually,  I'm not say Brisciotti should have stepped up....   I have no problem with him following his successful GM's advice...  I'm only saying I'm sure he was in on the conversation....   that this wasn't a surprise to him.    That this wasn't done in a vacuum.    That's all.

 

But,  you're right and the agent is right,  it's a stunning brain cramp for such a well run franchise....   incredibly penny-wise and pound-foolish.

 

This one earns the Ravens a whopping     

 

 

No doubt you are right and to take it one step further , if it were my team and I truly believed in Flacco , I would have made a strong suggestion to do the 81 mill. Now if that happened and Newsome said for whatever reason they shouldn't "give in" then the blame would be all on him. Either scenario is very possible.

 

Im saying what he did in the regular season would have counted much much more then it did in the deal, the 11 td's and 0 picks are great in the playoffs, elite even no question thats undebatable and that alone would have likely got him a great deal but prior to that he was barely average in the playoffs with 9 TD's and 8 Int's and a 57.8 completion percentage add that to his 12.75 average td passes per year, rounded up 13 and you got yourself an average QB who had a elite 4 game stretch...He is good...But not great and certainly not elite, I want to see him perform big consistently over the course of a full season

 

 

I think it's pretty tough to say one way or the other if Flacco is a top 3 QB. If you go by his whole body of work , the answer is no. If you go by his performance in the post season the answer would be yes. Then you start getting into the "team" thing and all the other intangibles . So yea... I hear ya. My point would be if you want him for 80 mill over 5 years , don't let the guy walk away for 81 over 5 .

 

 

 

Sorry guys for running the posts together. I screwed up.

[BOTT]

No... that wouldn't be the right math. It was a total of 1 million over 5 years. So the above should read "Before the playoff run Flacco wasn't worth 16m , let alone 16.2 mill.

 

 

From the link....

 

 

" The Ravens were unwilling to add $1 million more to the final year of that deal, according to Linta."

Oh, thanks for that clarification

[Dustin]

 

 

I think it's pretty tough to say one way or the other if Flacco is a top 3 QB.

 

Not that tough. He's barely in the top 8.

[Gavin]

Tough to say Flacco is a top 3 QB? Peyton Manning, Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger are all better for sure,  A few others are as good or better

[dw49]

Tough to say Flacco is a top 3 QB? Peyton Manning, Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger are all better for sure,  A few others are as good or better

 

You need to take a second and read what this topic is about. I'm not trying to rate Flacco as a QB . I just threw out the top 3 number. If it makes you feel better .. top 5 ... top 6 ? I don't know. Put him where you want to put him. He has as many playoff wins right now as Manning. You can argue the semantics of that all you like but you can't argue that the QB is the most important piece of the puzzle. Also don't kid yourself .. there might actually be a GM or two out there that would prefer Flacco start a January play off game in cold , windy weather than a 37 year old  Manning. Also saying that Tony Romo is better for sure than Flacco is highly debatable. You go on to infer that there might be around 10 qb's that could be better than Flacco. I think there are many that might disagree with that.

 

However , what this thread is about is Ozzie Newsome and the Ravens paying him 120.6 mill over six years when they could have signed him for 81 mill over 5 years. That's a WHOPPING 39.4 million for the extra year.  Also note that 52 million is guaranteed , so chances are they are going to pay every last cent of this deal off. All this because they wanted to play hard ball for 1 million over 5 years. This is like I say... bone headed. If Flacco is as bad as you say , then it's even MORE bone headed .... right ? They just paid a bad QB 121 million $. So in any , either , which ever , what ever .. I can't imagine how I'm not right in this . 

[dw49]

Oh, thanks for that clarification

 

 

 

Your welcome. 

[Gavin]

Your welcome. 

It looks like (according to Spotrac) 29 mill is guaranteed, Also with Flacco being 28 it looks like they could trade him in a year or two and possibly be alright, Either way that was a real head scratcher of a move on Newsomes part.

[NewColtsFan]

 

This one earns the Ravens a whopping     

 

Actually, a demerit for me....    what I meant to post (and I'm sure you knew it)  

 

Was that this move earned the Ravens a whopping           Dopy me!     :slaphead:     

 

So,  my bad post actually earns me a whopping        <<DOH!!!>>

[NewColtsFan]

Often overlooked by Flacco's critics who point to his less than fantastic regular season passing numbers,  is that the kid wins in the playoffs.

 

He's gotten his team in the playoffs in each of his 6 years -- including as a rookie....    and he has won at least one playoff game in each season.    Put another way,  he's done something that Andrew Luck didn't do! 

 

That's no small feat considering he came from the College Football super power known as......   Delaware.

 

I mean.....   a little credit where credit is due would be nice.....      just sayin....

[Dustin]

Often overlooked by Flacco's critics who point to his less than fantastic regular season passing numbers,  is that the kid wins in the playoffs.

 

He's gotten his team in the playoffs in each of his 6 years -- including as a rookie....    and he has won at least one playoff game in each season.    Put another way,  he's done something that Andrew Luck didn't do! 

 

That's no small feat considering he came from the College Football super power known as......   Delaware.

 

I mean.....   a little credit where credit is due would be nice.....      just sayin....

 

Joe Flacco in the post-season

 

2008 passer ratings: 59.1, 89.4, 18.2.

 

2009: 10.0, 48.8

 

2010: 115, 48. 

 

In his first 3 years he had 1 solid game, 1 good game, and 5 bad ones. He was dragged by his defense and running game even though he did everything in his power to make sure they were eliminated. He's insanely overrated and I can name 10-12 QBs I would take over him.

 

He gets tons of credit for that great run he put together this year, but between 2008 and 2010 he was terrible in the playoffs. 

[Gavin]

Often overlooked by Flacco's critics who point to his less than fantastic regular season passing numbers,  is that the kid wins in the playoffs.

 

He's gotten his team in the playoffs in each of his 6 years -- including as a rookie....    and he has won at least one playoff game in each season.    Put another way,  he's done something that Andrew Luck didn't do! 

 

That's no small feat considering he came from the College Football super power known as......   Delaware.

 

I mean.....   a little credit where credit is due would be nice.....      just sayin....

Oh he deserves credit no doubt.....11 td's.....0 Int's great numbers, I was very impressed, He wins in the playoffs, but like the numbers show prior to this year he was average at best in the playoffs, He did get away with a couple passes vs the 49ers however. For the record Im not trying to discredit that he is a good QB, I just dont think he is anything special at this point, Good enough......Which to tell you to the truth Im sure there are a couple teams out there that wished there QB was just "good enough"

[NewColtsFan]

Joe Flacco in the post-season

 

2008 passer ratings: 59.1, 89.4, 18.2.

 

2009: 10.0, 48.8

 

2010: 115, 48. 

 

In his first 3 years he had 1 solid game, 1 good game, and 5 bad ones. He was dragged by his defense and running game even though he did everything in his power to make sure they were eliminated. He's insanely overrated and I can name 10-12 QBs I would take over him.

 

He gets tons of credit for that great run he put together this year, but between 2008 and 2010 he was terrible in the playoffs. 

 

And to that I say....    there were wins in each of those 3 seasons.....   there have been wins in every season....

 

Wait?     3 season?    Why yes,  Flacco has played now played 5 seasons,  so you conveniently left off the games that don't support your view.    Whoops!    What a surprise!

 

Finally....

 

I'd add this to consider....    Andrew Luck's rating from his game this year....  59.8,  and a loss.

 

You know what....   People do get better....   I find it interesting that you're completely unwilling to say that Joe Flacco wasn't all that great his first few years...   but he's gotten better....    Nope.    You'd decided he's only so good.

 

And it doesn't matter what he does,  you're not going to change your view -- ever.

 

Okie dokie...   have it your way....

[dw49]

It looks like (according to Spotrac) 29 mill is guaranteed, Also with Flacco being 28 it looks like they could trade him in a year or two and possibly be alright, Either way that was a real head scratcher of a move on Newsomes part

 

 

 

 

Yea... that was my whole point. What in God's name is Newsome doing ? If he likes the guy after the 2011 season to offer him 80 million , you are doing it because you believe he is a great QB. So by that logic , saying "the heck with the deal" for a lousy 1 million more over the 5 years , you are basically saying .."I'm wrong and we'll sign him for less." So Newsome pretty much put himself in a no win situation. Either he pays way more the following year if he was right and he really only wins if Flacco bombs out in 2012. Usually a team would get killed cap wise trading a player in the 2nd or 3rd year of a huge 6 year deal , but I can't say that without looking at the guaranteed money and when it's being paid. We also need to remember that the 16 million offered was before Brees signed his deal. I think at that time the biggest contract was PM's at 18 mill. So I guess we need to realize that 16 mill was really a bigger deal when it was offered than it appears now.

[Dustin]

And to that I say....    there were wins in each of those 3 seasons.....   there have been wins in every season....

 

Wait?     3 season?    Why yes,  Flacco has played now played 6 seasons,  so you conveniently left off the games that don't support your view.    Whoops!    What a surprise!

 

 

 

I made it clear that I was only talking about his 1st three years multiple times as you made it seems he was a catalyst for playoff wins every year he's been in the league and I was simply pointing out that's not the case. I specifically mentioned that he played great the in the last 2 years. 

 

 

 

 

I'd add this to consider....    Andrew Luck's rating from his game this year....  59.8,  and a loss.

 

And? If he had a 59.8 and won then I would say he was terrible in that game too. Not sure what this has to do with Flacco.

 

 

 

 

You know what....   People do get better....   I find it interesting that you're completely unwilling to say that Joe Flacco wasn't all that great his first few years...   but he's gotten better....    Nope.    You'd decided he's only so good.

 

 

I'm completely willing to say that Flacco wasn't all that great in his first few years. He's also severely regressed since his 2010 season in nearly every category.

 

 

 

 

And it doesn't matter what he does,  you're not going to change your view -- ever.

 

Okie dokie...   have it your way...

 

Why wouldn't I change me view? If he plays great next season then I'll say he played great. I have nothing against Flacco, but people calling him a top 7 QB are severely overrating the abilities he's shown over the course of his career. 

[NewColtsFan]

Oh he deserves credit no doubt.....11 td's.....0 Int's great numbers, I was very impressed, He wins in the playoffs, but like the numbers show prior to this year he was average at best in the playoffs, He did get away with a couple passes vs the 49ers however. For the record Im not trying to discredit that he is a good QB, I just dont think he is anything special at this point, Good enough......Which to tell you to the truth Im sure there are a couple teams out there that wished there QB was just "good enough"

 

Actually,  the numbers don't say that.

 

Flacco has played 5 full years....    Dustin posted his playoff numbers for 3 of the seasons....

 

So,  Flacco has now had two exceptional post season runs,  one which resulted in a Super Bowl win,  the other 2011 which should've put the Ravens in the Super Bowl except for a dropped TD pass and a winning FG.

 

And he had some decent games in other years.

 

But he's won playoff games in each of his 5 seasons.    I suspect the list of QB's that you can say that about is incredibly short.

[NewColtsFan]

I made it clear that I was only talking about his 1st three years multiple times as you made it seems he was a catalyst for playoff wins every year he's been in the league and I was simply pointing out that's not the case. I specifically mentioned that he played great the in the last 2 years. 

 

 

 

And? If he had a 59.8 and won then I would say he was terrible in that game too. Not sure what this has to do with Flacco.

 

 

 

I'm completely willing to say that Flacco wasn't all that great in his first few years. He's also severely regressed since his 2010 season in nearly every category.

 

 

 

Why wouldn't I change me view? If he plays great next season then I'll say he played great. I have nothing against Flacco, but people calling him a top 7 QB are severely overrating the abilities he's shown over the course of his career. 

 

You've become a master cherry picker at both stats and quotes....

 

Like when you just did this....    look at what you put into bold,  but you conveniently left off the part that was the pay-off....

 

 I find it interesting that you're completely unwilling to say that Joe Flacco wasn't all that great his first few years...   but he's gotten better....  

 

 

It's the part that you didn't put into bold that was the payoff.    Of course you're willing to say Flacco wasn't great his first few years....   you say it in every post in every Flacco thread on this website.   But, you're completely unwilling to give him credit for the good that he's done.    He's improved and you refuse to acknowledge it.

 

You cherry pick stats,  you cherry pick quotes....    You're determined to be right no matter what....

 

That's grows old....    life is short....    Not interested in a back and forth that is not getting anywhere....

 

See you tomorrow....

[Dustin]

 But, you're completely unwilling to give him credit for the good that he's done.    He's improved and you refuse to acknowledge it.

 

 

 

 

He gets tons of credit for that great run he put together this year 

 

G'night.

[dw49]

And to that I say....    there were wins in each of those 3 seasons.....   there have been wins in every season....

 

Wait?     3 season?    Why yes,  Flacco has played now played 5 seasons,  so you conveniently left off the games that don't support your view.    Whoops!    What a surprise!

 

Finally....

 

I'd add this to consider....    Andrew Luck's rating from his game this year....  59.8,  and a loss.

 

You know what....   People do get better....   I find it interesting that you're completely unwilling to say that Joe Flacco wasn't all that great his first few years...   but he's gotten better....    Nope.    You'd decided he's only so good.

 

And it doesn't matter what he does,  you're not going to change your view -- ever.

 

Okie dokie...   have it your way....

 

 

 

2011 was pretty good too. He out played Brady and we al remember the dropped pass.  Also hate to bring up P.M. , but geez ... he really wasn't too stellar in the playoffs if you compare him at the same age as Flacco. I was at the Tenn game . Nothing special there and the Jet loss (1st one) bordered horrific. Played pretty well in the Miami loss. Not looking this stuff up so I'm being a bit vague . Point is I'm kind of agreeing with what you have above. But many think Flacco is ordinary and I'm not in the mood to go down that one now. It's just so tough to debate how much post season games should count when comparing a QB's whole body of work. If I was to argue the other side , I would point out that Flacco had a lot of prayers answered in this post season. Some of those passes were a combination of A. Boldin and Lady Luck.

[Dustin]

He out played Brady 

 

I know you said that you really don't want to debate this, but I just wanted to point out that Brady was facing a top 5 defense and Flacco was facing the 2nd worst pass defense in the history of the NFL.

 

So I don't think it's really fair to say that he "outplayed" him as if things were equal on the other side of the ball.

[NewColtsFan]

Tough to say Flacco is a top 3 QB? Peyton Manning, Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger are all better for sure,  A few others are as good or better

 

Tony Romo is better?!?    The guy who has yet to win a playoff game?    The guy whose team rarely makes the playoffs?

 

That Tony Romo?

 

You do realize that Flacco just led his team to the Super Bowl victory?    That Joe Flacco?

 

You do realize he put them in the Super Bowl a year ago as well if not for a dropped TD pass and a missed winning FG?

 

But Romo is better?

 

Holy Cow......

[NewColtsFan]

G'night.

 

Right....   you say you gave credit to Flacco right after writing this....

 

Why wouldn't I change me view? If he plays great next season then I'll say he played great.

 

He's now the defending Super Bowl champion, and the year before he put Baltimore in the Super Bowl if not for a dropped TD pass and a missed game winning FG.    So, he's been exceptional two years in a row.   And yet your view hasn't changed.

 

 

But you want me to believe you're willing to change your view  in the future.....

 

I guess I'll believe it when I see it....

[Gavin]

Actually,  the numbers don't say that.

 

Flacco has played 5 full years....    Dustin posted his playoff numbers for 3 of the seasons....

 

So,  Flacco has now had two exceptional post season runs,  one which resulted in a Super Bowl win,  the other 2011 which should've put the Ravens in the Super Bowl except for a dropped TD pass and a winning FG.

 

And he had some decent games in other years.

 

But he's won playoff games in each of his 5 seasons.    I suspect the list of QB's that you can say that about is incredibly short.

Oh I wasn't using Dustins #'s I was using Pro Football Focuses #'s.....According to there #'s prior to this past post season he had 8 td's and 8 Int's (I actually gave him an extra td he did not have)

[Dustin]

Right....   you say you gave credit to Flacco right after writing this....

 

Why wouldn't I change me view? If he plays great next season then I'll say he played great.

 

He's now the defending Super Bowl champion, and the year before he put Baltimore in the Super Bowl if not for a dropped TD pass and a missed game winning FG.    So, he's been exceptional two years in a row.   And yet your view hasn't changed.

 

 

But you want me to believe you're willing to change your view  in the future.....

 

I guess I'll believe it when I see it....

 

Because that's 6 games out of 93. If he plays consistently then I'll change my view. Until then, he's on the cusp of entering tier 2 imo.

[Gavin]

Tony Romo is better?!?    The guy who has yet to win a playoff game?    The guy whose team rarely makes the playoffs?

 

That Tony Romo?

 

You do realize that Flacco just led his team to the Super Bowl victory?    That Joe Flacco?

 

You do realize he put them in the Super Bowl a year ago as well if not for a dropped TD pass and a missed winning FG?

 

But Romo is better?

 

Holy Cow......

 teams win SB's and Romo has 5 seasons of 25 or more td's to his credit, Also Romo and the Cowboys beat Philly in Philly in 2009, He went 23-35 2 td's no Int's

[Dustin]

 teams win SB's and Romo has 5 seasons of 25 or more td's to his credit

 

I would take Romo over Flacco 10 times out of 10.

[Gavin]

I would take Romo over Flacco 10 times out of 10.

Im not sure I would, Numbers wise its a no brainer but, poise under pressure I'd have to say Flacco , Depends on the situation for me

[NewColtsFan]

I would take Romo over Flacco 10 times out of 10.

 

Oh for goodness sake.

 

You were working so hard to make some sort of case for your lack of support for Flacco.

 

And then you had to go and write that??    Really?

 

I'm hoping you're just tired and not thinking clearly.   I know I have those moments late at night.   Wake up the next morning and wonder what was I thinking?

 

The Tony Romo with one career playoff win and a tsunami of 4th quarter meltdowns is better than the guy with 8 career post season wins, at least one in every year, including a Super Bowl win?  

 

I get that coming from Gavin.   I assumed he'd correct himself once I pointed out his inclusion of Romo.   But no.   He still thinks Barrett Jones is one of the top 3 OL in the last draft no matter what.

 

But now you write that you'd take Romo over Flacco 10 times out of 10?    And you expect me to believe that you'll someday change your mind about Flacco?

 

Now who's kidding who??

[MAC]

The story actually seems unbelievable, so perhaps it's not true. Agents have been know to twist stories around. Teams don't care about a million in non-guaranteed money at the tail end of a deal, and the Ravens management isn't going to make a "mistake" the way that this is characterized.

 

It all makes so little sense that a more likely scenario is that the Ravens were putting on a show of negotiating to get a feel, but that either this offer was never on the table in the manner the agent describes, or they used the agents counter offer (which they knew would be coming because that's what agents do) as an excuse to yank it.

 

The thing is, while I was very impressed with Flacco at times this past season - particularly in the playoffs - I never was before. The real story here is that anyone would think (prior to this season) that he was worth $16 in the first place, not that the team missed the golden opportunity to overpay him.

 

I'd actually say that if the story IS true, Flacco and or his agents were extremely short-sighted in not grabbing it when they could. It's nice for a QB to have confidence, but his agent's job is to have a grasp of reality.

[Gavin]

Oh for goodness sake.

 

You were working so hard to make some sort of case for your lack of support for Flacco.

 

And then you had to go and write that??    Really?

 

I'm hoping you're just tired and not thinking clearly.   I know I have those moments late at night.   Wake up the next morning and wonder what was I thinking?

 

The Tony Romo with one career playoff win and a tsunami of 4th quarter meltdowns is better than the guy with 8 career post season wins, at least one in every year, including a Super Bowl win?  

 

I get that coming from Gavin.   I assumed he'd correct himself once I pointed out his inclusion of Romo.   But no.   He still thinks Barrett Jones is one of the top 3 OL in the last draft no matter what.

 

But now you write that you'd take Romo over Flacco 10 times out of 10?    And you expect me to believe that you'll someday change your mind about Flacco?

 

Now who's kidding who??

2 things:

 

1.I really did not think this needed to be explained  but teams when football games...not numbers or just 1 player.......Trent Dilfer won a SB...does that make him better then Romo?

 

2.Barrett does not have elite strength or athleticism..Thats well documented.....He plays with good technique the majority of the time, Furthermore........Anyone can repeat what the so called experts say....Those experts can be way wrong.........While I love to be right IF I am wrong about a player (everybody is, its just part of the game) then at least I am wrong forming my own opinion, Ill take that over repeating something just to repeat it or just because so and so said so so it must be true, If I see the same thing watching a player then Ill say it...If not then I will say that to