Jets Release Tim Tebow!

[House]

What else is new? ;)

You just gotta get over this Patriots phase, and see the white and speed blue light buddy lol.

[amfootball]

You just gotta get over this Patriots phase, and see the white and speed blue light buddy lol.

Ha,ha. You may be right. I already admitted that I like Luck...a lot. What else do you want from me? lol

[MAC]

There are many Christians in the NFL that generally do (Corey Lynch, for just one eaxample) just that, but Tim Tebow possibly felt compelled to use it to help spread the good word.  My oldest (step) daughter went to Evangelical Christian School with Corey Lynch (cheerleader), and we watched all of his ECS home games.  He went on to Appalachian state and then married Billy Graham's granddaughter! (Jane "Cissie" Graham).  But even then, it is reported that when the Bengals drafted him, he felt it was as much as for his attitude and character (being a Christian) as his playing skills, because of the turmoil the Bengals lockeroom was in at that time. But you never hear Lynch being associated with his faith, though it is abundant. (wife's link for verification http://cissiegrahamlynch.com/about/

 

Personally, I don't recall any time last year where Tebow was using football to evangelize...  nor Corey ever.

 

Anyway, I don't mind their faith or viewpoints or their desire to spread their faith or not.  As far as football, just produce and your in.  Tim may need to go to the CFL and prove he can be an NFL caliber QB and come back, or if not, then suck it up and play a position that his skill set meets. I just hope folks don't try to deride Tebow mainly because of his faith, but on his ability and (lack of) skills first and foremost.

 

BTW- Corey had 3 yoiunger brothers that were all excellent players and stars at ECS and in the county.  Not sure Calan Lynch is/wasa playing beyond HS, Colton was a DB at Harvard, and Colby a WR at Florida Institute of Technology.  Their dad coached all of them (about 10 years) and is retired from HS football coaching now that all graduated. Great family.

Can there be two more devout men in the league than Tony Dungy or Jim Caldwell? I feel tremendous affection and respect for them both, and cherish the positive influence that their personal nature brought to the Colts. Neither has ever said or done a single thing that made me feel personally uncomfortable. Tony in fact retired so that he would have MORE time to devote to his "good works". Tebow on the other hand is known for painting bible references on his face and for derailing sports interviews to push his personal agenda. I'm not sure that I've ever listened to him long enough to get to the point where he actually answers the question. He also seizes whatever positive moments he has on the field - with the attention of 80,000 fans and a television audience - to make like Charlton Heston in the Ten Commandments.      I've seen literally hundreds of athletes take those moments to cross themselves and point to the sky, and never cared enough to even bat an eye. I'm all for everyone in this country having the right to privately honor the traditions of whichever belief system they adhere to. "Defend their rights to the death" and all that good stuff. However Tebow's actions in contrast personally offend me. It's akin to the difference between someone driving around with a bumper sticker on their car, and someone pulling into my driveway while I'm cutting the lawn, and forcing me to expend the effort to politely convince them that I'm not interested in what they're selling.

 

The only reason that we saw less of this last year was that he barely got on the field. Either way, I'm not deriding Tebow because of his faith. I don't CARE about his or anyone elses' faith. Ironically he's such a good person and he tries so hard, and has such a knack for making stuff happen when you least expect it, that if  he would just stop trying to MAKE me care about his faith, I'd actually be rooting for him. I just wish that he would stop trying to make his business my business, and just play football.

[buccolts]

He's coming to the Allouettes! 

 

Good, please just post your articles in the 'misc' section.

[buccolts]

We all know Tebow did not win the SB but his D did him no favors against the Pats letting up an NFL record 6 TDs to Brady in what seemed like 5 minutes. Hard for any Qb to do much when he is that deep in the hole early in the game.

 

The guy won games, a lot of games and took a putrid 1-4 team to the division title and a playoff win. Say what you want but his campaign was every bit as successful as Manning's first year with the added bonus of a playoff win. It is a shame that the Jets pretty much ruined the guys career. He deserves a chance to have a team built around him just the way RG, Luck, Wilson, Kaep have their teams suited to their strengths. All the guy has ever done his whole football career is prove he is a winner when given the chance.

 

Perhaps, but multiple 3 & outs tend to do that to a D over the course of a season.

That, and turnovers.

Tim contributed greatly.

[JWF]

Sorry but 'Fair/unfair' and 'Inept' dont mean nearly the same things.

 

Fair-

In accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.

Without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage: "he played fair".

 

Inept-

Having or showing no skill; clumsy.

 

 

I'll stick to what I said and the reasons I provided for why Tebow was handled ineptly. I'm not arguing with you that Tebow is a great QB, but he did help Denver to 7-4 to close out the season and played a big role in their playoff win. It is INEPT to make a trade for Tebow and how much attention he brings if you're never even going to try him out seriously. When you grab a guy like Tebow who is known for having a special ability to win games, did you not think about the potential controversy when Sanchez is losing 2/3?  I believe at one point they had him as the No. 2, but started their No. 3... yes it could be because they have more faith in McElroy, but why have him as the No. 3 then? Clumsy and inept management. 

 

But if it is your opinion that the JEts handled the Tebow situation with skill and poise, you're entiteled to it, I just don't see it. 

Those words are also both commonly used to qualitatively assess things

 

like....A.) I think the way they handled Tebow was inept. B.) I think the way they handled Tebow was fair.

 

They can both be used to judge against the same standard in contrast. Context....But regardless.

 

Yes, you literally did not say "he was treated unfairly". I understand that. What im saying is the premise of your argument or I guess the root cause of it, to me, is essentially the same as the person who says "Tebow wasn't given a chance", etc... They both basically lead back to the idea that the Jets trading for Tebow meant he should be playing.  They both imply there was an expectation that wasn't met caused by whatever reason.

 

What im saying is that it is ridiculous to have expectations for a guy who was acquired for a 5th round pick. How many starting QBs in this league have been acquired for 5th rounds picks? Its not very many if at all. Usually when someone is had for that cheap, its to be a backup. I know he has a crazy fan base but that is a horrible reason to play a guy. Especially a guy you don't feel is the answer at the position. He's in the professional world now. You aren't owed anything and nothing is guaranteed. Heck, almost all of us know that reality. If we aren't better than the other guy going for the same job....we're probably going home disappointed...and it doesn't matter what we, our friends, kids or wives think...its what the employer thinks that matters in that circumstance.

 

I get people like Tebow. But that's not a good reason to overlook the fact what basically all NFL GMs and a lot of fans can see...he isn't a good QB and shouldn't be playing the position.

 

I actually think Tebow would be a decent TE or H-back but he obviously doesn't want that...so he really is asking for this at this point.

[buccolts]

Can there be two more devout men in the league than Tony Dungy or Jim Caldwell? I feel tremendous affection and respect for them both, and cherish the positive influence that their personal nature brought to the Colts. Neither has ever said or done a single thing that made me feel personally uncomfortable. Tony in fact retired so that he would have MORE time to devote to his "good works". Tebow on the other hand is known for painting bible references on his face and for derailing sports interviews to push his personal agenda. I'm not sure that I've ever listened to him long enough to get to the point where he actually answers the question. He also seizes whatever positive moments he has on the field - with the attention of 80,000 fans and a television audience - to make like Charlton Heston in the Ten Commandments.      I've seen literally hundreds of athletes take those moments to cross themselves and point to the sky, and never cared enough to even bat an eye. I'm all for everyone in this country having the right to privately honor the traditions of whichever belief system they adhere to. "Defend their rights to the death" and all that good stuff. However Tebow's actions in contrast personally offend me. It's akin to the difference between someone driving around with a bumper sticker on their car, and someone pulling into my driveway while I'm cutting the lawn, and forcing me to expend the effort to politely convince them that I'm not interested in what they're selling.

 

The only reason that we saw less of this last year was that he barely got on the field. Either way, I'm not deriding Tebow because of his faith. I don't CARE about his or anyone elses' faith. Ironically he's such a good person and he tries so hard, and has such a knack for making stuff happen when you least expect it, that if  he would just stop trying to MAKE me care about his faith, I'd actually be rooting for him. I just wish that he would stop trying to make his business my business, and just play football.

 

MAC, I gotta say that I agree with your posts in this thread, wholeheartedly.

If Peyton had shilled Papa John's every single time he was on camera, I may feel similar to him as I do Tim.

Difference being that Peyton has proven he belongs where he is.

[JWF]

How about that? He looked his best in a big time playoff game against the number one D but yeah time to toss him to the heap...

 

Way to gloss over the big qualifier in that statement.....

 

What happened the following week against a horrible New England defense that was actually healthy and didn't have safeties running around like chickens with their heads cut off playing the deep ball?

[amfootball]

Way to gloss over the big qualifier in that statement.....

 

What happened the following week against a horrible New England defense that was actually healthy and didn't have safeties running around like chickens with their heads cut off playing the deep ball?

I know because when he wins it is never because he did anything right and when he loses it is because he did everything wrong. The inability to actually look objectivly at the guys performance over 12 games is stunning. At some point, you have to stop with the excuses and realize the guy played some pretty good darn football and won a ton of games, the division, and a playoff game against a team that was better than his at every position.

[amfootball]

Can there be two more devout men in the league than Tony Dungy or Jim Caldwell? I feel tremendous affection and respect for them both, and cherish the positive influence that their personal nature brought to the Colts. Neither has ever said or done a single thing that made me feel personally uncomfortable. Tony in fact retired so that he would have MORE time to devote to his "good works". Tebow on the other hand is known for painting bible references on his face and for derailing sports interviews to push his personal agenda. I'm not sure that I've ever listened to him long enough to get to the point where he actually answers the question. He also seizes whatever positive moments he has on the field - with the attention of 80,000 fans and a television audience - to make like Charlton Heston in the Ten Commandments.      I've seen literally hundreds of athletes take those moments to cross themselves and point to the sky, and never cared enough to even bat an eye. I'm all for everyone in this country having the right to privately honor the traditions of whichever belief system they adhere to. "Defend their rights to the death" and all that good stuff. However Tebow's actions in contrast personally offend me. It's akin to the difference between someone driving around with a bumper sticker on their car, and someone pulling into my driveway while I'm cutting the lawn, and forcing me to expend the effort to politely convince them that I'm not interested in what they're selling.

 

The only reason that we saw less of this last year was that he barely got on the field. Either way, I'm not deriding Tebow because of his faith. I don't CARE about his or anyone elses' faith. Ironically he's such a good person and he tries so hard, and has such a knack for making stuff happen when you least expect it, that if  he would just stop trying to MAKE me care about his faith, I'd actually be rooting for him. I just wish that he would stop trying to make his business my business, and just play football.

Well stated man. I share Tebow's faith but was often uncomfortable at how he dropped Christ's name all the time but never bothered to explain why He is his Savior. I was always waiting for the gospel message but never got it which was disappointing.

 

Another great example is Reggie White. When he was in Philly, he was ministering in some of the poorer neighborhoods. One of the Philly reporters asked if he could come with Reggie to observe his ministry. Reggie said sure but on one condition, that the reporter did not write a story. That is the essence of the life. It never points to itself but to others, it helps but never wants to be recognized for it. It is about Him, not us.

 

I think Tebow may have lost his way a bit because he was young and always so outspoken about his faith. I think like anything else it all get ahead of him especially when he started to have success. Of course his rabid fans did not help him.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Can there be two more devout men in the league than Tony Dungy or Jim Caldwell? I feel tremendous affection and respect for them both, and cherish the positive influence that their personal nature brought to the Colts. Neither has ever said or done a single thing that made me feel personally uncomfortable. Tony in fact retired so that he would have MORE time to devote to his "good works". Tebow on the other hand is known for painting bible references on his face and for derailing sports interviews to push his personal agenda. I'm not sure that I've ever listened to him long enough to get to the point where he actually answers the question. He also seizes whatever positive moments he has on the field - with the attention of 80,000 fans and a television audience - to make like Charlton Heston in the Ten Commandments.      I've seen literally hundreds of athletes take those moments to cross themselves and point to the sky, and never cared enough to even bat an eye. I'm all for everyone in this country having the right to privately honor the traditions of whichever belief system they adhere to. "Defend their rights to the death" and all that good stuff. However Tebow's actions in contrast personally offend me. It's akin to the difference between someone driving around with a bumper sticker on their car, and someone pulling into my driveway while I'm cutting the lawn, and forcing me to expend the effort to politely convince them that I'm not interested in what they're selling.

 

The only reason that we saw less of this last year was that he barely got on the field. Either way, I'm not deriding Tebow because of his faith. I don't CARE about his or anyone elses' faith. Ironically he's such a good person and he tries so hard, and has such a knack for making stuff happen when you least expect it, that if  he would just stop trying to MAKE me care about his faith, I'd actually be rooting for him. I just wish that he would stop trying to make his business my business, and just play football.

 

O have already agreed, there are many devoted individuals to their faith in the NFL, and yes, Tebow seems to be the only one using football as a springboard to bring it out in public eye. But wearing eye black with scripture really isn't that much different than a bumper sticker.  And rhe words he's spoken on air or gestures is thanks to his God, not asking others to join him in following his Lord. (though I'm certain he'd like nothing better).  When he starts to ask people to repent or be thrown in the fiery lake and such, then I will solidly join your camp. Until then, I'm just meh about it all.  Including his QB skills.  I hope he has improved and he shows it off in the CFL, then gets another crack at NFL QB.  But he'll likely fade away in the Florida sunset...

[ColtsBlueFL]

Well stated man. I share Tebow's faith but was often uncomfortable at how he dropped Christ's name all the time but never bothered to explain why He is his Savior. I was always waiting for the gospel message but never got it which was disappointing.

 

Another great example is Reggie White. When he was in Philly, he was ministering in some of the poorer neighborhoods. One of the Philly reporters asked if he could come with Reggie to observe his ministry. Reggie said sure but on one condition, that the reporter did not write a story. That is the essence of the life. It never points to itself but to others, it helps but never wants to be recognized for it. It is about Him, not us.

 

I think Tebow may have lost his way a bit because he was young and always so outspoken about his faith. I think like anything else it all get ahead of him especially when he started to have success. Of course his rabid fans did not help him.

 

Nicely done.  Better than I could put it.  And I loved Reggie White.

[pacolts56]

Somewhere in a putrid, stinking slum in the Philippines, where Tebow was born to his missionary parents, there is a hospital he helped raise $3M to build. And the folks who get treated in that hospital don't care whether he can throw a football 5 yards or 75 yards on a rope.....and certainly don't care what someone on TV or radio or in this electronic bar room of ours thinks about him. He helped them in a real way...and his NFL career helped facilitate that. He doesn't brag about it, does he? And his "agenda"...not actually his by the way....according to what he believes and obeys, desires nothing but good to whoever it's told to.

 

So I guess I'll forgive Tim Tebow for sharing his faith so openly.

 

Especially considering that the alternative NFL story that many media bloodsuckers love reporting has too commonly become strip-club shootouts, ten children "fathered" from nine women and a head-spinning number of post-NFL career bankruptcies.

 

But they could sure play football, right!! :disco:

 

Anyway....for Tebow haters...allow me to double your pleasure with this interview he had with our good friend Skip Bayless a while back. Tim explains himself rather well....but if you absolutely can't stomach another word from Tebow or what he believes, you can always opt to not watch.

 

Amen?

 

Edited May 3, 2013 by Nadine
inappropriate language

[amfootball]

Somewhere in a putrid, stinking slum in the Philippines, where Tebow was born to his missionary parents, there is a hospital he helped raise $3M to build. And the folks who get treated in that hospital don't care whether he can throw a football 5 yards or 75 yards on a rope.....and certainly don't care what someone on TV or radio or in this electronic bar room of ours thinks about him. He helped them in a real way...and his NFL career helped facilitate that. He doesn't brag about it, does he? And his "agenda"...not actually his by the way....according to what he believes and obeys, desires nothing but good to whoever it's told to.

 

So I guess I'll forgive Tim Tebow for sharing his faith so openly.

 

Especially considering that the alternative NFL story that many media bloodsuckers love reporting has too commonly become strip-club shootouts, ten children "fathered" from nine women and a head-spinning number of post-NFL career bankruptcies.

 

But they could sure play football, right!! :disco:

 

Anyway....for Tebow haters...allow me to double your pleasure with this interview he had with our good friend Skip Bayless a while back. Tim explains himself rather well....but if you absolutely can't stomach another word from Tebow or what he believes, you can always opt to not watch.

 

Amen?

 

Not sure if you were aware of this but before Tim's mother got pregnant with him, his father prayed for a preacher son. Instead he got a football player. http://www.lifenews.com/2010/02/04/nat-5966/

God certainly has a sense of humor.

 

No one is knocking Tim's life but the way he chose to grand stand his faith. I remember very well his Jets press conference when a reporter asked him about his beliefts and he said that it was a football conference and he was there to talk about football. You can't have it both ways. You can't drop God's name every chance you get and then refuse to expound on your beliefs when asked.

 

He is also not the only one doing charity. Many of the players that you slam for their lifestyles are also some of the ones donating as much if not more than Tebow. Like I said before the Christian life is never one that promotes itself even when doing good.

 

Let me ask you, how did you feel about his magazine spread where he posed in the crucifix position with no shirt on? I was sickened by it.  http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/08/15/the-surprising-facts-about-tebows-controversial-sexy-jesus-crucifix-photo-you-probably-didnt-know/#

[Nadine]

I wish people would stop fighting about this

 

Personally I don't understand the hating

 

please simmer down.  If you want talk about this, do so without inappropriate comments

 

otherwise we'll need to close this thread

[pacolts56]

Not sure if you were aware of this but before Tim's mother got pregnant with him, his father prayed for a preacher son. Instead he got a football player. http://www.lifenews.com/2010/02/04/nat-5966/

God certainly has a sense of humor.

 

No one is knocking Tim's life but the way he chose to grand stand his faith. I remember very well his Jets press conference when a reporter asked him about his beliefts and he said that it was a football conference and he was there to talk about football. You can't have it both ways. You can't drop God's name every chance you get and then refuse to expound on your beliefs when asked.

 

He is also not the only one doing charity. Many of the players that you slam for their lifestyles are also some of the ones donating as much if not more than Tebow. Like I said before the Christian life is never one that promotes itself even when doing good.

 

Let me ask you, how did you feel about his magazine spread where he posed in the crucifix position with no shirt on? I was sickened by it.  http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/08/15/the-surprising-facts-about-tebows-controversial-sexy-jesus-crucifix-photo-you-probably-didnt-know/#

Well....we're walking a fine line between a reasonable discussion and how deeply the Forum rules allow us to delve into this.

 

It's also a fine line, and pretty much impossible, for Tim Tebow to seperate the Christian life he lives and has lived for a long time in a profession that most definitely puts him under some very bright lights and is highly promoted by the league and the media....feeding an NFL fanbase with an insatiable appetite.

 

But football isn't who he is....it is what he does. I'm convinced he'd be the same way if he worked down at your corner gas station. (Hold the jokes) 

 

But exactly which Jets press conference did he turned away that question from the reporter at? Because it wasn't the first one when they introduced him....it must have been a later one. 

 

In any event, it was a rare instance and I would hardly consider it a case where he cowered from offering his testimony, which was pretty well known by the time the Jets got him.

 

I also understand the off-field ups and downs some of these NFL players have had and that their entire lives are not something to be written off....and that many have done important charity work despite some bad choices.

 

But my comment wasn't to condemn or slam them.

 

It was simply to highlight the polar opposite fan response, which has at times been to dismiss off-field and personal issues when the player is a top caliber NFL talent....and at the same time ridicule and pillory Tebow, who is not a top caliber NFL talent for expressing and living out his faith so openly.

 

The media is notorious for "building up so they can tear down" individuals that capture a moment of fame. And I've maintained for quite some time that Tim Tebow being drafted in the first round was absolutely the worst thing that could have happened to him...knowing how the media operates. Rarely have they exercised it as ruthlessly as they have with Tebow.

 

But Tebow is a big boy too....and he doesn't get rattled by all this because like Tony Dungy, Reggie White and others we've talked about...the NFL is PART of his walk of faith.

 

As for his GQ picture?

 

Obviously not the best move on Tebow's part.

 

But as someone who shares the same faith he does, I have my own sin struggles....like my smart alleck and sometimes ban-able posts on this Forum. I'm in no position to throw stones...and besides...my aim is as lousy as his, I'd probably miss anyway.

[JWF]

I know because when he wins it is never because he did anything right and when he loses it is because he did everything wrong. The inability to actually look objectivly at the guys performance over 12 games is stunning. At some point, you have to stop with the excuses and realize the guy played some pretty good darn football and won a ton of games, the division, and a playoff game against a team that was better than his at every position.

 

Like I said...its the first and probably only game ive seen where he wasn't horrible throwing. But the qualifier needs to be said when the Tebow fans always bring up the "look what he did against the #1 defense in the NFL" stuff... the #1 defense in the NFL without its starting FS, NT, a banged up all-pro DE (Keisel) and OLB (Woodley)...and a team that had its all-pro QB playing on a bum ankle.

 

Its not all Tebow's fault when the team loses either. I never said that. But it certainly doesn't help a team win, especially when facing a good offensive team, when your offense cant do enough to take pressure off the defense (like converting 3rd downs...which are primarily passing downs).

 

What I am saying is that a good portion of the games they would win weren't Tebow playing amazingly and "willing" his team to victory or even really doing a lot outside of not turning it over and losing the game in the first 2 quarters.

 

Almost all of the games I saw where they won had the same story line.....the offense did diddly squat for 3 quarters and the defense managed to keep the bad/inconsistent offense they were facing in check. Usually the other team would do something dumb (like run out of bounds with under 2 minutes, give up an onside kick, throws INTs late in a game, etc..) and Tebow and Co. would get one decent drive to squeak it out.

 

The consistent thing about the losses was the offense was pretty awful, as usual, or couldnt keep up with the other team for very long (the first New England loss) because the other team actually had a good enough offense to score more than 17 points and pretty much force the Broncos to abandon their ball-control/zero passing offense.

[amfootball]

Like I said...its the first and probably only game ive seen where he wasn't horrible throwing. But the qualifier needs to be said when the Tebow fans always bring up the "look what he did against the #1 defense in the NFL" stuff... the #1 defense in the NFL without its starting FS, NT, a banged up all-pro DE (Keisel) and OLB (Woodley)...and a team that had its all-pro QB playing on a bum ankle.

 

Its not all Tebow's fault when the team loses either. I never said that. But it certainly doesn't help a team win, especially when facing a good offensive team, when your offense cant do enough to take pressure off the defense (like converting 3rd downs...which are primarily passing downs).

 

What I am saying is that a good portion of the games they would win weren't Tebow playing amazingly and "willing" his team to victory or even really doing a lot outside of not turning it over and losing the game in the first 2 quarters.

 

Almost all of the games I saw where they won had the same story line.....the offense did diddly squat for 3 quarters and the defense managed to keep the bad/inconsistent offense they were facing in check. Usually the other team would do something dumb (like run out of bounds with under 2 minutes, give up an onside kick, throws INTs late in a game, etc..) and Tebow and Co. would get one decent drive to squeak it out.

 

The consistent thing about the losses was the offense was pretty awful, as usual, or couldnt keep up with the other team for very long (the first New England loss) because the other team actually had a good enough offense to score more than 17 points and pretty much force the Broncos to abandon their ball-control/zero passing offense.

I think you would agree that there is more than one way to win at football. You can either outscore the opponent or play ball control and defense. Tebow led the number one rushing attack in the league on a putrid 1-4 team. When he was announced as the starter, the first think Elway did was trade his best receiver in Brandon Lloyd to the Rams.

 

I can never understand why people look at Tebow and that Denver team and say how horrible he was at passing without acknowledging just how awful his offense was in that regard. He had a very green Thomas and an average WR in Decker. Hardly a powerhouse set of receivers.

 

What he did have were two stud RBs and a pretty good Oline. You add him and his running ability to that mix and you have a pretty formidable team.

 

Tebow just didn’t beat Pitt, he won  7 of first 8 games, like I said with a putrid team that he helped transform into the most feared running attack in the league.

 

Not sure what you think of Andrew Luck but I think he is a stud. He played pretty lousy for about three quarters of most of Indy’s games last year with a completion percentage only 8 points higher than Tebow at 54 vs. 46. He also had a truck load of TOs compared to Tebow who had 1/3 as many. Luck also led seven game winning comebacks as well. Like I said, there is more than one way to win at football and in the end winning is what matters.

 

Tebow has been a winner his whole life. A champion in fact. He deserves to have a team built around his strengths the way Luck, RG, Wilson, etc have. I think he has proven he can win when given the chance. And who’s to say his throwing won’t improve? We assume Luck’s will or at least we hope? Tebow has started a total of 16 games in his whole NFL career. If he got the chance to start again it would be akin to Luck next year in his sophomore year.

 

I don’t know about you but I like winners. Could care less how they look, all of that is just window dressing for FF owners.