what is gonna be peyton's legacy

[amfootball]

He absolutely did not. Brady was a glorified game manager his first Super Bowl.

He was? Offense ranked 6 in points. Same as defense for points allowed. And O ranked higher in yards gained than the D in terms of yardage given up.

[OlBlu]

Splitting hairs here. Marino's Dolphins were one of the best teams in 84 and 85 and also the early 90's. Manning's Colts were far superior to the Pats in 03, 04 and the Steelers in 05. Difference is Montana always beat the teams he was supposed to beat.

 

I do not think that the Colts were better than those New England teams. That team won 11 games with their back-up QB one year.... :dancing:

[Tony Sullivan]

Brady won the SB with a worse team in '01 than Luck had last year...

Stop while you're ahead. Less pro bowlers, less wins the previous season, new coaching staff, rookie QB, rookie Head Coach, Head Coach swap mid-season... Yeah Colts had it easy.

[amfootball]

NE was already winning Super Bowls when Brady took over the team....... They were lots better then than any of Manning's Colts teams...... :dancing:

Oh man. NE has never won a SB before Brady. 42 years of futility and the team was 5-11 the year before and 0-2 in '01 when Brady took over and went 14-3.

[jshipp23]

Marino would have won 6+ Super Bowls on those teams.

Never had a team but the best Pure passer in the history of the game...My all-time favorite QB ever. Made average receivers like Clayton and Duper pro-bowlers...Never had a TE or RB either..

[amfootball]

I do not think that the Colts were better than those New England teams. That team won 11 games with their back-up QB one year.... :dancing:

You are talking about 2007/2008. In 2001-2005, the Pats teams were far inferior to those Colts teams. Remember Peyton threw 49 TDs in 2003 and lost to the Pats 24-14 in the AFCCG.

[Tony Sullivan]

He was? Offense ranked 6 in points. Same as defense for points allowed. And O ranked higher in yards gained than the D in terms of yardage given up.

That just means Luck was more prolific in 2012 than Brady was in 2001.

[amfootball]

That just means Luck was more prolific in 2012 than Brady was in 2001.

Sure. The passing rules have changed but Brady did not lose in the playoffs his first season starting.

[Dustin]

He was? Offense ranked 6 in points. Same as defense for points allowed. And O ranked higher in yards gained than the D in terms of yardage given up.

 

Yes. Brady threw 18 TDs and 12 INTs on a team with one of the best defenses in the league at the time. To compare the 2001 Patriots team to the 2012 Colts is a complete joke. 

[Tony Sullivan]

Sure. The passing rules have changed but Brady did not lose in the playoffs his first season starting.

So the passing rule changes explain your reason that the Colts in '12 were better than the Pats in '01? Your points been disproven, thank you try again.

[amfootball]

Yes. Brady threw 18 TDs and 12 INTs on a team with one of the best defenses in the league at the time. To compare the 2001 Patriots team to the 2012 Colts is a complete joke. 

So that would be six less picks than Luck and a whole lot less fumbles.

[House]

Brady won the SB with a worse team in '01 than Luck had last year...

No

[Dustin]

Sure. The passing rules have changed but Brady did not lose in the playoffs his first season starting.

 

And you can thank Drew Bledsoe for that. TB through 1 TD throughout the whole postseason.

[Dustin]

So that would be six less picks than Luck and a whole lot less fumbles.

 

And what does that have to do about your point about Luck having a better team?

[amfootball]

No

Ok how about similarly bad teams? Pats were not in the playoffs in '99 or '00 and went 5-11 in '00 and 0-2 in '01 before brady took over. They were a joke.

[Tony Sullivan]

So that would be six less picks than Luck and a whole lot less fumbles.

So now you're argument is Brady was better in his second year, than Andrew in his first?

Ok...

This is a Manning legacy thread...

Why are you derailing/trolling topics all the time?

[amfootball]

And you can thank Drew Bledsoe for that. TB through 1 TD throughout the whole postseason.

You mean Troy Brown who scored a TD on a punt return against the steelers and recovered the block FG and pitched it to Harris for the TD. Bledsoe scored one TD that game.

[amfootball]

So now you're argument is Brady was better in his second year, than Andrew in his first?

Ok...

This is a Manning legacy thread...

Why are you derailing/trolling topics all the time?

No, I love Luck. He has Brady written all over him. The poster asked if any other of today's QBs could have done what Luck did this past year and I said Brady could have as he took a similarly bad team in '01 to the championship.

[Dustin]

You mean Troy Brown who scored a TD on a punt return against the steelers and recovered the block FG and pitched it to Harris for the TD. Bledsoe scored one TD that game.

 

The same amount Brady through al post-season.

[Dustin]

No, I love Luck. He has Brady written all over him. The poster asked if any other of today's QBs could have done what Luck did this past year and I said Brady could have as he took a similarly bad team in '01 to the championship.

 

6th ranked defense vs 23rd. Get real. Your homerism is blinding you.

[jshipp23]

So that would be six less picks than Luck and a whole lot less fumbles.

This is laughable when you look at the differences in O-lines and defenses from these teams...Tom Brady would have gotten destroyed if he was a rookie starting for the colts last year. He is average at best when he faces pressure, but he rarely faces pressure.

[amfootball]

The same amount Brady through al post-season.

And zero TO's and he also scored a TD himself against Oakland.

[Dustin]

And zero TO's and he also scored a TD himself against Oakland.

 

2 TDs and 0 TOs in 3 playoff games. Sounds like a game manager to me. But whatever, keep to your revisionist history.

[amfootball]

This is laughable when you look at the differences in O-lines and defenses from these teams...Tom Brady would have gotten destroyed if he was a rookie starting for the colts last year. He is average at best when he faces pressure, but he rarely faces pressure.

His Oline was not good at all in '01 just ask Bledsoe who was sacked a ton in '00 and to being '01. brady gets rid of the ball fast so he does not need a great line.

[amfootball]

2 TDs and 0 TOs in 3 playoff games. Sounds like a game manager to me. But whatever, keep to your revisionist history.

Smith ran for TDs that year. TD passes is not indicative of an offense that does not score. They ran a lot in the red zone.

[House]

Ok how about similarly bad teams? Pats were not in the playoffs in '99 or '00 and went 5-11 in '00 and 0-2 in '01 before brady took over. They were a joke.

That team was coming together for awhile, and was mostly missing really solid QB play. Granted that D came into its own during that period. They were still leaps and bounds better than the Colts last year.

[Tony Sullivan]

2 TDs and 0 TOs in 3 playoff games. Sounds like a game manager to me. But whatever, keep to your revisionist history.

Wow I didn't realize how ineffective Brady was in those playoffs. It's really as testament to how important a role defense and special teams play in the finals.

[amfootball]

That team was coming together for awhile, and was mostly missing really solid QB play. Granted that D came into its own during that period. They were still leaps and bounds better than the Colts last year.

I revised and said similary bad. They really were. No one in NE heading into '01 thought they were any good. They were 5-11 the season before and began '01 with losses to the Bengals and Jets. They were bad, bad. I agree that Luck did a fantastic job with a poor team. I have said that repeatedely. Again, the poster asked if any of today's QBs could have done the same thing and I said Brady could and did back in '01.

[Dustin]

Wow I didn't realize how ineffective Brady was in those playoffs. It's really as testament to how important a role defense and special teams play in the finals.

 

Exactly. Give him huge credit for the 03 and 04 ones for sure. He was absolutely not the catalyst for the 2001 Super Bowl win. 

[amfootball]

Wow I didn't realize how ineffective Brady was in those playoffs. It's really as testament to how important a role defense and special teams play in the finals.

 

In the second half alone of the snow bowl game against the raiders, Brady threw for 300 yards in a blizzard and scored 13 unanswered points, scoring a TD himself on a run. TD passes do not tell the whole story. it was the greatest half of football ever put together by a QB in a playoff game in ridiculously bad weather conditions. 

[House]

I revised and said similary bad. They really were. No one in NE heading into '01 thought they were any good. They were 5-11 the season before and began '01 with losses to the Bengals and Jets. They were bad, bad. I agree that Luck did a fantastic job with a poor team. I have said that repeatedely. Again, the poster asked if any of today's QBs could have done the same thing and I said Brady could and did back in '01.

I know your point, and I'm not trying to split hairs.

I just feel you guys were a team on the rise, that was rapidly accelerated by Brady. Without him doing what he did/without him I think it would have only been a matter of a few years before you guys would have been serious contenders. Bill was building that team masterfully.

[amfootball]

I know your point, and I'm not trying to split hairs.

I just feel you guys were a team on the rise, that was rapidly accelerated by Brady. Without him doing what he did/without him I think it would have only been a matter of a few years before you guys would have been serious contenders. Bill was building that team masterfully.

You may be right. It is tough to tell with Bill as Brady was the perfect Qb for him - gets rid of the ball fast, does not turn it over. Bill ran the same system in Cleveland for six seasons and was 8 games below 500 with only one playoff apperance, There is a reason why he always says there is no other QB I would rather have than Brady. I really do hope he coaches after Brady retires so we can see if he can duplicate it again but I really think it was a rare combo as most dynastic teams are - great coach, great QB.

 

I think Luck is the real deal and we have only begun to see his brilliance.

[GoPats]

This thread is a train wreck. AM, there are so many folks here who just bait you into this kind of thing, and I'm not sure why you bite, man! LOL...

 

I will try to bring it back to the original topic.

 

To me, Manning is a sure-fire, first-ballot Hall of Fame player who had a major hand in changing the game. When you look at the NFL now, with QBs regularly throwing for 4,000 yards a season and 30+ TDs on a regular basis, I can't help but think that a lot of that is the result of what a productive passer he's always been. Whether or not the prominence of the passing game is a good thing is subject to debate. Personally I hate that defenders aren't allowed to defend anymore, but I digress...

 

He's the league's only 4-time MVP.

 

He holds a ton of records and, if Favre had retired when he probably should have, Manning would probably have passed him in most if not all major categories.

 

I find it impossible (and also, just a silly waste of time) to try to compare guys, make rankings or lists, or hold a guy up from one era against another. Fact is, no one knows how Peyton Manning would have fared as a QB in the 1960s, or whether Johnny Unitas would have been Johnny U if he played in the modern era.

 

But if I had to make a list of the top five QBs I've seen play regularly in my lifetime (and I'll be 41 years old this summer), those five guys, in no specific order, would be:

 

Montana

Marino

Elway

Brady

Manning

 

I can't even attempt to rank guys like Unitas, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, etc. Because I'd be talking out of my you-know-what.

[Yehoodi]

2 TDs and 0 TOs in 3 playoff games. Sounds like a game manager to me. But whatever, keep to your revisionist history.

Not to be picky as I know the direction you are going in and are not totally calling Brady a game manager, but it was 2 TDs and 0 TOs in 2.5 games one of which was in a blizzard (where the then AFCCG partipants from the year prior and MVP and SB the year later Raiders only manage 13 points in the same conditions) . . . and he did help get his team in position for three FGs . . . also too, for what it is worth, if your D or ST scores a TD it prevents your from getting one . . . yes the credit should go to those parts of the team (and with Bledsoe coming in in the AFCCG), but stepping back we need to qualify this and not look at a game manager but a person who did his part while others score too . . . had for instance Ty Law and Troy Brown been tackled at the 3 yard line and Brady comes in and throws a play action pass for two TDs, he has 4 TDs and no TOs . . .

And he might of gotten more had Woodsen not deflected his pass after the 2 min warning of the Snow Bowl, hehe . . .

So yah Brady got a lots of help from the other phases of the game and Bledsoe, but at the same time contributed when he was given the opportunity . . .

[GoPats]

Not to be picky as I know the direction you are going in and are not totally calling Brady a game manager, but it was 2 TDs and 0 TOs in 2.5 games one of which was in a blizzard (where the then AFCCG partipants from the year prior and MVP and SB the year later Raiders only manage 13 points in the same conditions) . . . and he did help get his team in position for three FGs . . . also too, for what it is worth, if your D or ST scores a TD it prevents your from getting one . . . yes the credit should go to those parts of the team (and with Bledsoe coming in in the AFCCG), but stepping back we need to qualify this and not look at a game manager but a person who did his part while others score too . . . had for instance Ty Law and Troy Brown been tackled at the 3 yard line and Brady comes in and throws a play action pass for two TDs, he has 4 TDs and no TOs . . .

And he might of gotten more had Woodsen not deflected his pass after the 2 min warning of the Snow Bowl, hehe . . .

So yah Brady got a lots of help from the other phases of the game and Bledsoe, but at the same time contributed when he was given the opportunity . . .

 

Brady also ran one in during the Snow Bowl.

 

For some reason, if he was Cam Newton, people would remember that better... but since he's not a running QB, everyone forgets! (It wasn't a bad run either, right up the gut when he couldn't find anyone...)

[Dustin]

Not to be picky as I know the direction you are going in and are not totally calling Brady a game manager, but it was 2 TDs and 0 TOs in 2.5 games one of which was in a blizzard (where the then AFCCG partipants from the year prior and MVP and SB the year later Raiders only manage 13 points in the same conditions) . . . and he did help get his team in position for three FGs . . . also too, for what it is worth, if your D or ST scores a TD it prevents your from getting one . . . yes the credit should go to those parts of the team (and with Bledsoe coming in in the AFCCG), but stepping back we need to qualify this and not look at a game manager but a person who did his part while others score too . . . had for instance Ty Law and Troy Brown been tackled at the 3 yard line and Brady comes in and throws a play action pass for two TDs, he has 4 TDs and no TOs . . .

And he might of gotten more had Woodsen not deflected his pass after the 2 min warning of the Snow Bowl, hehe . . .

So yah Brady got a lots of help from the other phases of the game and Bledsoe, but at the same time contributed when he was given the opportunity . . .

Well he also threw a pick in the AFC championship game and should have had a fumble that ended the game. Yeah he definetely played the part in the Super Bowl run for sure, but not as large as AM is saying.

[Yehoodi]

This thread is a train wreck. AM, there are so many folks here who just bait you into this kind of thing, and I'm not sure why you bite, man! LOL...

  

.

Yes it has gotten a little side tracked . . .

I forgot to mention in my original post - I wanted to add another thing to Manning's legacy and that being he was an overall #1 draft pick that was successful under this spotlight . . . something that does not happen very often to the #1 overall pick . . .

[Yehoodi]

Well he also threw a pick in the AFC championship game and should have had a fumble that ended the game. Yeah he definetely played the part in the Super Bowl run for sure, but not as large as AM is saying.

ya, i think you and I agree . . . (except for the tucky whucky play) . . . gees a pick in the AFCCG? did someone drop a pick? . . . not sure what you are taking about . . . yes he did do what he had to do . . . basically make no mistakes . . . and we were fortunate to get some non offense scores and have our franchise QB on the bench to come in and help out in the AFCCG . . .

Brady also was fortunate to get the default MVP in the SB too . . .

[Dustin]

ya, i think you and I agree . . . (except for the tucky whucky play) . . . gees a pick in the AFCCG? did someone drop a pick? . . . not sure what you are taking about . . . yes he did do what he had to do . . . basically make no mistakes . . . and we were fortunate to get some non offense scores and have our franchise QB on the bench to come in and help out in the AFCCG . . .

Brady also was fortunate to get the default MVP in the SB too . . .

Yep we seem to be in agreement here. And I meant the Raiders game not the AFCCG. My mistake.

[Yehoodi]

Brady also ran one in during the Snow Bowl.

 

For some reason, if he was Cam Newton, people would remember that better... but since he's not a running QB, everyone forgets! (It wasn't a bad run either, right up the gut when he couldn't find anyone...)

yes that was a good run and then he falls over trying to spike the ball . . . as a side note we had that included in the two TDSs for his playoff stats . . .