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chad72

Wouldn't Sylvester Williams fill a hole at 3-4 DE for us if we trade down to the top of the 2nd?

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With Moala probably starting on PUP thus making Redding and RJF starters at the 3-4 DE position, if we do trade down to the top of the 2nd round, what are your thoughts on Sylvester Williams for the 3-4 DE position?

 

His size, power and height are good for the 2-gap 3-4 DE position and he would probably get minutes in our rotation starting year 1 and might even crack the starting rotation if Redding is injured like he was twice last year. Ultimately, it boils down to whether Nevis and Rico Mathews will see any backup/starter minutes at the 3-4 DE position.

 

Thoughts???

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Rather draft for starters early especially at positions where there is a need

 

Guard

Corner

OLB

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Rather draft for starters early especially at positions where there is a need

 

Guard

Corner

OLB

 

2 out of those 3 positions - Guard and OLB, it is just as hard to be a starter as it is with the 3-4 DE position. Guard is probably the hardest because you are responsible for a direct path to the QB and with the stunts and blitzes that teams throw at you, add to the fact that you have to communicate with the center too on top of worrying about your assignment. There is a reason why a lot of teams invest in an OG in free agency because of the experience gained that would help transition into a new team that they are going into. OLB, if you are used situationally, it makes it easier on you. Otherwise, your athleticism that got you by in college does not get you past NFL caliber OTs that you will deal with mainly. That can shoot your confidence too. Even Freeney drafted at No.11 did not start till probably several games into the season though he was a perfect scheme fit.

 

IMO, RB, CB/WR (depending on complexity of offense like Arians' playbook etc.), OT - in that order are the easiest positions to transition from college to the NFL.

 

That is why I think our pick will be OLB, WR, CB if we stand pat unless a very smart and top rated guard falls to us like Cooper. Still, he might take a while before putting him in the rotation.

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Sylvester Williams is a 1st round prospect could go as high as Car  at worse ATl. Should be a OLB available Jones,Mingo,Moore,and Werner one of those guys should fall to us.

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I wouldn't mind taking a DE/DT hybrid guy if a great one is available that can play the run AND provide a consistent pass rush.  If he can't do both then not worth a 1st round pick imo.  Otherwise my preference in first round is OLB like Damontre Moore unless a guy like Mingo or Werner slide to us.

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I don't think it was smart to get rid of Geathers. We only have 3 DEs now, and he was a very capable backup.

 

Did really well with the star against the Texans.

 

Moala and Guy will be our Des. We all know Reddin g is going down with an injury.

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2 out of those 3 positions - Guard and OLB, it is just as hard to be a starter as it is with the 3-4 DE position. Guard is probably the hardest because you are responsible for a direct path to the QB and with the stunts and blitzes that teams throw at you, add to the fact that you have to communicate with the center too on top of worrying about your assignment. There is a reason why a lot of teams invest in an OG in free agency because of the experience gained that would help transition into a new team that they are going into. OLB, if you are used situationally, it makes it easier on you. Otherwise, your athleticism that got you by in college does not get you past NFL caliber OTs that you will deal with mainly. That can shoot your confidence too. Even Freeney drafted at No.11 did not start till probably several games into the season though he was a perfect scheme fit.

 

IMO, RB, CB/WR (depending on complexity of offense like Arians' playbook etc.), OT - in that order are the easiest positions to transition from college to the NFL.

 

That is why I think our pick will be OLB, WR, CB if we stand pat unless a very smart and top rated guard falls to us like Cooper. Still, he might take a while before putting him in the rotation.

I think if we draft Cooper he is our starter from day one, Many O Linemen start from year one if they are drafted early

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I don't think it was smart to get rid of Geathers. We only have 3 DEs now, and he was a very capable backup.

 

Did really well with the star against the Texans.

 

Moala and Guy will be our Des. We all know Reddin g is going down with an injury.

Nice outlook

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i actually like a later draft pick for DE maybe John Simon in the 3rd round? brings heavy hitting and bulk to the line

He is not a DE in a 34

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With Moala probably starting on PUP thus making Redding and RJF starters at the 3-4 DE position, if we do trade down to the top of the 2nd round, what are your thoughts on Sylvester Williams for the 3-4 DE position?

 

His size, power and height are good for the 2-gap 3-4 DE position and he would probably get minutes in our rotation starting year 1 and might even crack the starting rotation if Redding is injured like he was twice last year. Ultimately, it boils down to whether Nevis and Rico Mathews will see any backup/starter minutes at the 3-4 DE position.

 

Thoughts???

I agree....and there is a perception of DL depth that, IMHO, is overly optimistic and you touched on why. Chapman, McKinney and Moala are all coming off ACLs....with Chapman promising but untested, and Moala probably having hit his ceiling and possibly looking at the PUP list. Redding has been dinged up as you noted, and he and Franklin will be 33 before or during the upcoming season.

 

I understand we have a lot of DL bodies on the roster and the Francois signing helps....but after years of run defense that many times looked like soaking wet toilet paper, I'm not gonna gripe one bit if Grigson and Pagano want quality depth and/or a new young starter. Because if a 3-4 DL takes the kind of hits we did last season and the bench runs dry....the entire defense will suffer badly.

 

So drafting Sylvester Williams wouldn't bother me at all....even at the #24 spot....assuming Warmack and Cooper are off the board. If those OGs are gone and we can get Williams in a trade down....all the better. And IF a trade down that nets us Williams and Larry Warford should happen....that will trigger a party that will aggravate my neighbors to the wee hours of the morning.

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With Moala probably starting on PUP thus making Redding and RJF starters at the 3-4 DE position, if we do trade down to the top of the 2nd round, what are your thoughts on Sylvester Williams for the 3-4 DE position?

 

His size, power and height are good for the 2-gap 3-4 DE position and he would probably get minutes in our rotation starting year 1 and might even crack the starting rotation if Redding is injured like he was twice last year. Ultimately, it boils down to whether Nevis and Rico Mathews will see any backup/starter minutes at the 3-4 DE position.

 

Thoughts???

I'd like to draft Williams at 24 and not trade down. Some scouts tested Williams as a LB at 313 lbs. He is agile and strong with a quick first step. If we keep 24 and Williams is gone maybe Kawan Short would be available. Williams or Short should be the future replacement for Redding and they would be rotated in the DL now.

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If we are going to draft a 3-4 DE early, I want Datone Jones. He is being compared to Justin Smith if he can get better consistently.

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Good linemen like Williams are hard to get after the first round though this is a good year for them. Linebackers can be gotten in later rounds. If a team's front 3 have to be double teamed it makes the whole defense better. Linebackers are free to make plays when playing behind a dominate front 3.

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If we are going to draft a 3-4 DE early, I want Datone Jones. He is being compared to Justin Smith if he can get better consistently.

 

Datone Jones is like Cory Redding, at that point in time when Cory Redding was drafted i.e. 279 lbs. Redding was drafted by the Lions to play 4-3 UT early in his career.

 

He is a bit too light to play the role of containment vs the run, which is the primary DE responsibility in a 2-gap 3-4 allowing LBs to make plays. If we ran a Wade Philips 1-gap 3-4, Datone Jones fits the mold ala J.J.Watt. But we dont. Pagano's/Manusky's 2-gap 3-4 pass rushing comes mostly from his OLBs and blitzing from ILBs/secondary, the 3-4 DE is not a pass rushing position in the 2-gap 3-4. If things break down, yes, you may get occasional pressure from there.

 

The DE responsibility in the 2-gap 3-4 is primarily containment and at this point in time, Datone Jones' best fit is a situational 4-3 pass rushing under tackle. He is perfect for the 4-3 NASCAR package to be moved between 4-3 DE and 4-3 UT. He wont fit unless he puts on another 20-30 lbs like Cory Redding did over the course of his career and then transitioned to the 2-gap 3-4 DE.

 

Thus, Datone Jones wont fit an every down player at the 3-4 DE position for the 2 gap system we are playing. Sylvester Williams however does. Sylvester Williams' measurables currently are closer to that of Cory Redding's currently. Also, Arthur Jones that plays starting 3-4 DE for Ravens, his measurables currently are very close to Cory Redding's too. That was the reason I brought up Sylvester Williams.

 

That could also be the reason Pagano and Grigson have talked to him: http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/15007-colts-interviewed-sylvester-williams-dt/

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I think if we draft Cooper he is our starter from day one, Many O Linemen start from year one if they are drafted early

Agree he would star over McGlynn haha but thing is Cooper isn't falling sadly :(

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I Think Williams could fit in our 3-4, But I like him more as a Nose Tackle. I think we're pretty set at Nose with Chapman and Franklin.

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