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Justin Tryon In Caldwell's Doghouse?


chad72

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Well, it don't seem that Coyer and Caldwell are on the same page either. Imagine that? Im not sure that I believe Tryon is really as good as the writher of this article wants us to believe, but there is no question he's better than Lacey. TBH, I don't know enough about Johnson to say one way or the other if he's any good or not.

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Well, at least that explains why he hasn't been playing. He is one of our top two corners for sure, and I've been wondering since training camp why he isn't starting opposite of Powers. I've resigned myself to just watching the fall out of this season at this point (the off season should be interesting as well), and look forward to getting cheap tickets to the Carolina game when I'm in IN...

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Now this is the kind of thing that could definitely lead to coaching dismissals. Regardless of if you're on the same page or not, to the public eye the entire coaching staff should at least appear to be on the same page.

Exactly. If the coaches are going to start sniping at one another through the media, this season could get really ugly.

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I meant that explains why he hasn't been the # 2 CB...sorry for not being clear.

Anyone who has read this forum for a while (and more specifically read some of my posts) knows I am not a Lacey fan. I think he's an excellent CB to have on the roster as a dime back and temporary fill in at nickle and that's about it. I dont think he's as bad as many people on this forum make him out to be, but he's not that good.

That being said, before the preseason started I figured Tryon would be the #2 CB but he didn't do anything in preseason (nor so far in the regular season) to earn it that I could see in the games. Now, I thought KT earned at least the nickle spot if not the starting spot and then he was not even active for the first game.

Plus we have to consider we as fans make our decisions on what we see in the game. The coaches make their decisions based on folm study of the games, film study of practices, how well they do on their game plan tests. When they look at film they are looking at things like; did he drop to the correct position in his zone? Did he turn his hips at the correct time? did his head maintain the correct position while turning the hips? how quickly after the ball was released did they react? Was he in the correct position before the snap? Did he read the offensive formation correctly? When he broke on the ball did he start off on the correct foot? The list goes on. We make our decisions based on about 1/10th to 1/20th of the information the staff uses to base their decisions. Maybe Tryon adlibs too much, maybe he has problems reading the offenses, maybe he does not spend enough time in the film room? Maybe when they are reviewing film and his mistake is pointed out he makes execuses for making the mistake rather than looking at ways to correct them. We don't know.

When you take all those things into consideration you give a player that grades out the best overall... then after a couple of games if you see that all the other stuff is not translating into improvement on the field then you make a change.

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Now this is the kind of thing that could definitely lead to coaching dismissals. Regardless of if you're on the same page or not, to the public eye the entire coaching staff should at least appear to be on the same page.

People are reading way too much into this. If the HC makes the decision on the starters than any questions about a player starting should be directed at the HC.

Coyer did exactly correct, he said that question has to be answered by the person who is in charge of it and then explained that Tryon is a good player.

Just like at my work, if someone called me and asked questions about a mechanical engineer, I would refer him to the VP who is the Project Manager and then say something to the effect that, so and so is an excellent mechanical engineer.

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People are reading way too much into this. If the HC makes the decision on the starters than any questions about a player starting should be directed at the HC.

Coyer did exactly correct, he said that question has to be answered by the person who is in charge of it and then explained that Tryon is a good player.

Just like at my work, if someone called me and asked questions about a mechanical engineer, I would refer him to the VP who is the Project Manager and then say something to the effect that, so and so is an excellent mechanical engineer.

I admit that the quotes in the article could easily have been taken out of context or the wrong tone could have been inferred. And I also agree with you regarding the chain of command etc...however, strictly in my opinion, as the defensive coordinator (2nd in command regarding the defense) I would expect more of an answer along the lines of "Coach Caldwell and I have been reviewing film and we both agreed that......." instead of "Well don't ask me, ask the head coach." Again, the tone with which he really made the statement could have easily been misinterpreted, but I got the same impression grmasterb did in that it sounded more like he was sniping at Caldwell. One incident is definitely not going to lead to a firing so if it was a misunderstanding then I've no doubt that at the most Coyer may be given some pointers as to how to word things around the media....not sure why that'd be necessary because the media would never twist anyone's wor....oh wait..lol

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I admit that the quotes in the article could easily have been taken out of context or the wrong tone could have been inferred. And I also agree with you regarding the chain of command etc...however, strictly in my opinion, as the defensive coordinator (2nd in command regarding the defense) I would expect more of an answer along the lines of "Coach Caldwell and I have been reviewing film and we both agreed that......." instead of "Well don't ask me, ask the head coach." Again, the tone with which he really made the statement could have easily been misinterpreted, but I got the same impression grmasterb did in that it sounded more like he was sniping at Caldwell. One incident is definitely not going to lead to a firing so if it was a misunderstanding then I've no doubt that at the most Coyer may be given some pointers as to how to word things around the media....not sure why that'd be necessary because the media would never twist anyone's wor....oh wait..lol

Your scenario response would be a good one, except that goes against two basic Colts' front office philosophies. 1.) Never say anything negative about any player to the media and 2.) Never state something that relates to the specifics of what goes on behind the scenes. :)

It's kind of hard to tell "tone" from a written piece, especially from Stampede Blue, who whenever I read some drivel from that site, it reminds me of a Mark Twain quote, “[g]et your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.”

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Anyone who has read this forum for a while (and more specifically read some of my posts) knows I am not a Lacey fan. I think he's an excellent CB to have on the roster as a dime back and temporary fill in at nickle and that's about it. I dont think he's as bad as many people on this forum make him out to be, but he's not that good.

That being said, before the preseason started I figured Tryon would be the #2 CB but he didn't do anything in preseason (nor so far in the regular season) to earn it that I could see in the games. Now, I thought KT earned at least the nickle spot if not the starting spot and then he was not even active for the first game.

Plus we have to consider we as fans make our decisions on what we see in the game. The coaches make their decisions based on folm study of the games, film study of practices, how well they do on their game plan tests. When they look at film they are looking at things like; did he drop to the correct position in his zone? Did he turn his hips at the correct time? did his head maintain the correct position while turning the hips? how quickly after the ball was released did they react? Was he in the correct position before the snap? Did he read the offensive formation correctly? When he broke on the ball did he start off on the correct foot? The list goes on. We make our decisions based on about 1/10th to 1/20th of the information the staff uses to base their decisions. Maybe Tryon adlibs too much, maybe he has problems reading the offenses, maybe he does not spend enough time in the film room? Maybe when they are reviewing film and his mistake is pointed out he makes execuses for making the mistake rather than looking at ways to correct them. We don't know.

When you take all those things into consideration you give a player that grades out the best overall... then after a couple of games if you see that all the other stuff is not translating into improvement on the field then you make a change.

Totally agree with what you say here. I think the interesting thing is that Coyer and Caldwell don't seem to be on the same page regarding Tryon, meaning that they could be interpreting the things you point out in the section I bolded differently. However, like you and others are pointing out, we (and Stampede Blue) could be reading too much into it.

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Totally agree with what you say here. I think the interesting thing is that Coyer and Caldwell don't seem to be on the same page regarding Tryon, meaning that they must be interpreting the things you point out in the section I bolded differently. However, like you and others are pointing out, we (and Stampede Blue) could be reading too much into it.

Coule be, but like I stated above, I think people are reading too much into this. All Coyer stated was that he like Tryon a lot, that he is competitive. Nothing more and nothing less. And quite frankly, if Coyer reads players like he reads offenses then it not a ringing endorsement for Tryon.

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Your scenario response would be a good one, except that goes against two basic Colts' front office philosophies. 1.) Never say anything negative about any player to the media and 2.) Never state something that relates to the specifics of what goes on behind the scenes. :)

It's kind of hard to tell "tone" from a written piece, especially from Stampede Blue, who whenever I read some drivel from that site, it reminds me of a Mark Twain quote, “[g]et your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.”

Very true and I can't nor would I try to disagree with that. The hypothetical response I gave was just the first thing that came to mind but an even better one could definitely be discussed and agreed upon with a little bit of prior discussion between Coyer and Caldwell.

There is or at least should be a #3 though which would be never make a comment that makes it sound like there is dissention amongst the coaches, or that at least can't be viewed or twisted to make it sound like there is. I'm not saying that's what Coyer intended to do but it's clear already that that is how his response is being viewed, or at least how it's being (mis)represented.

Regardless of what Coyer's actual tone or intent was in what he said, I do think Caldwell and Coyer need to sit down and discuss more appropriate ways to word responses to such questions. :)

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HC will show why he shouldn't be a HC in this league after this game. Bring in Jeff Fisher pls.

Ewww no thanks... Id rather john gruden... just like fans dont know whats really going on in the locker room its the same thing with this stampede blue guy.. i like reading his articles but him saying tryon is probably better than powers has me thinking this guy is gassed... if the colts really wanted to look at younger guys they wouldnt have started johnson cause he's 25 while lacey, kevin, rucker are all either 24 or younger.. soooo.. before i start bashing caldwell i wanna see how this guy performs... if TJ sucks im gonna bash caldwell for this lol

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Your scenario response would be a good one, except that goes against two basic Colts' front office philosophies. 1.) Never say anything negative about any player to the media and 2.) Never state something that relates to the specifics of what goes on behind the scenes. :)

It's kind of hard to tell "tone" from a written piece, especially from Stampede Blue, who whenever I read some drivel from that site, it reminds me of a Mark Twain quote, “[g]et your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.”

+1 for the mark twain quote. there is a lot of hate coming out of stampede blue

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I like Tryon I really do, I really loved what he did last year. With that said while people have been focused on Lacey getting burned they have missed to a large part Justin Tryon getting burned as well. Not shocking the Colts are looking elsewere for answers. With that said I hope Tryon can bounce back into the player he was last year.

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Just how freakin bad would you have to play to get into Caldwel's imaginary doghouse. It's unimaginable to think he has the emotional tools to conjure up " a doghouse". Lincinbach manages to elude the doghouse. I think the doghouse is owned and run by Polian and Caldwell cleans the facilities.

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Just how freakin bad would you have to play to get into Caldwel's imaginary doghouse. It's unimaginable to think he has the emotional tools to conjure up " a doghouse". Lincinbach manages to elude the doghouse. I think the doghouse is owned and run by Polian and Caldwell cleans the facilities.

Go back and watch Caldwell after the Newtown kid screwed up the end of the Packers game in the pre-season and tell me Cladwell doesn't have emotions. There was a picture on the Star's facebook page this week of Caldwell losing his mind over the missed back to back PI calls by the refs. Just because Caldwell knows how to control his emotions does not mean he doesn't have them.

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Well he can tackle, he's second on the team right now in tackles but frankly that's probably due to the fact that teams go after him so much.

But when be does tackle its a struggle and probably gets alot of credit when his teammates finish for him. He does hold on for dear life and I give him credit for that. I just don't think he'll ever get big enough to be a real good tackled. I think he weighs like 175.

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But when be does tackle its a struggle and probably gets alot of credit when his teammates finish for him. He does hold on for dear life and I give him credit for that. I just don't think he'll ever get big enough to be a real good tackled. I think he weighs like 175.

He had several good tackles in the Browns game.

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Wait...Caldwell has a dog house? Thought the man didn't have any emotions.

Seriously...Tryon is much better than Lacey as far as coverage goes. However, Lacey is believed to be better in run support. So I guess it depends on what it is Caldwell values most in the position. Personally, if you have to rely on your corners to help stop the run then you have bigger issues on D than who the second starting CB is. So I say promote Tryon.

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Go back and watch Caldwell after the Newtown kid screwed up the end of the Packers game in the pre-season and tell me Cladwell doesn't have emotions. There was a picture on the Star's facebook page this week of Caldwell losing his mind over the missed back to back PI calls by the refs. Just because Caldwell knows how to control his emotions does not mean he doesn't have them.

That was Chip Vaughn who took a dump in Cheesetown, not Newton.

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But when be does tackle its a struggle and probably gets alot of credit when his teammates finish for him. He does hold on for dear life and I give him credit for that. I just don't think he'll ever get big enough to be a real good tackled. I think he weighs like 175.

I didn't give him much credit for it, I just stated a fact. Like I said in my post it probably has something to do with the fact he has balls thrown his way because teams pick on him because he struggles. Again, I am just saying hey at least he can tackle, he can. It doesn't mean I think he's a great or even good player.

I find it funny I got a negative rating (not saying by you) because I pointed out someone is second on the team in tackles...

Man hard crowd when Colts fans have someone they don't like they don't like ANYTHING good being said about him. It must all be dude stinks and has no business being in the NFL.

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Wait...Caldwell has a dog house? Thought he didn't have any emotions.

Seriously...Tryon is much better than Lacey as far as coverage goes. However, Lacey is believed to be better in run support. So I guess it depends on what it is Caldwell values most in the position. Personally, if you have to rely on your corners to help stop the run then you have bigger issues on D than who the second starting CB is. So I say promote Tryon.

Tryon got burned several times on Sunday as well but people just seem to completely over look that. Again I love Tryon based on what I saw lat year but I am just reporting what I saw. I really hope he snaps back to the player we looked to get last year.

IMO a lot of Colts fans hav a double standard if a guy is a player they like they over look the bad he does or make an excuse for it. If it's a guy they dislike he's the worst player in the NFL and can do nothing right and anyone who says other wise is just being a homer.

Very few players are 100% great, most have some kinda flaw, and very few starters in the NFL have no business being on the field and a have SOMETHING they do well.

I'll point out two of the most hated Colts players and tell you what they do well. Lacey is a good tackler and Link is a good run blocker. Now with that said it doesn't mean I don't feel like both can't be replaced or upgraded. I think both can be and need to be. I am just pointing out they aren't completely worthless like a lot of fans would have people believe.

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HC will show why he shouldn't be a HC in this league after this game. Bring in Jeff Fisher pls.

GOGO Call jeff fisher

NO!

Ewww no thanks...

Finally, someone agrees with me. What is it about Jeff Fisher that people like so much? Is it that he was the coach for so many years in Tennessee? That doesn't make him a good coach. Neither does the fact that he wore a Peyton Manning jersey to a press event. He's not the worst coach in the world. He's probably better than Caldwell, if for no other reason than experience. So is Joe Gibbs. So is Art Shell. People are calling their names though. Jeff Fisher is not the kind of coach that you turn your program upside down for. Please.

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What is it about Jeff Fisher that people like so much? Is it that he was the coach for so many years in Tennessee? That doesn't make him a good coach. Neither does the fact that he wore a Peyton Manning jersey to a press event. He's not the worst coach in the world. He's probably better than Caldwell, if for no other reason than experience. So is Joe Gibbs. So is Art Shell. People are calling their names though. Jeff Fisher is not the kind of coach that you turn your program upside down for. Please.

Caldwell is fine - I'm not screaming for anyone, but I'll still chime in.

I kind of like Fisher personally, and yes its for the reasons that you mentioned. The self-deprecating humor as demonstrated with that shirt episode is something I enjoy and respect in general, and his obvious appreciation for Peyton makes me feel good as a Colts fan. That doesn't mean that he's a good coach of course, other than that he succeeded in taking the pressure off his team.

On the field, I appreciated the insane things he did in an effort to get an edge when his teams were hopelessly outclassed, and his duration of employment with one organization is certainly a positive as well.

All that being said, I have no clue as to whether he's a better coach than Caldwell. I would be willing to bet that none of us do. I'm not looking for a scapegoat myself.

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Lacey is a good tackler and Link is a good run blocker.

Yep, just like Tim Jennings was a good tackler and Pollak is a good run blocker :). When Jennings couldn't cover and Pollak couldn't pass protect as well initially, they were whipping boys too :).

Having said that, Jacob Lacey's tackling vs Jordy Nelson in the Packers pre-season game was atrocious and was on several other occasions too. Seems like a switch did turn on and I did see a more decisive Lacey in the tackling department in the Browns game. Still, it is one game, let us hope he can maintain it. However, he will make a good tackling nickel CB if they use him right in a zone vs passing teams. Against running teams, Lacey will get injured pretty fast providing run support from the nickel. Remember his shoulder injuries from last year, that is why they brought in Rucker, for that physical nickel role like Marlin Jackson. They just need to get Thomas and/or Rucker on the field and we will see our secondary improve gradually. Till then, it is a long season :).

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Finally, someone agrees with me. What is it about Jeff Fisher that people like so much? Is it that he was the coach for so many years in Tennessee? That doesn't make him a good coach. Neither does the fact that he wore a Peyton Manning jersey to a press event. He's not the worst coach in the world. He's probably better than Caldwell, if for no other reason than experience. So is Joe Gibbs. So is Art Shell. People are calling their names though. Jeff Fisher is not the kind of coach that you turn your program upside down for. Please.

I agree too. Looking at it objectively, Jon Gruden does have a better career win pct. with 2 separate franchises - the Bucs and the Raiders. I'd go for Gruden before I'd consider Fisher.

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