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The "horrible" Defense....


cmgww

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ALL THIS TALK about our terrible defense...can't stop anyone, blah blah. Well, riddle me this. What has changed so drastically about this terrible defense since 2009 when they were ranked 9th in points allowed (maybe 8th, but def. in top 10)??? Most of the same players are there, with a few exceptions (Hayden, Session) but no real huge difference makers are gone. That defense in 2009 won us several close games (New England, SF, Jax) and smothered the Ravens and Jets in the playoffs.

SO, you tell me. What's the big difference? Age? I thought they played well enough to win Saturday, given the situations they were placed into...

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ALL THIS TALK about our terrible defense...can't stop anyone, blah blah. Well, riddle me this. What has changed so drastically about this terrible defense since 2009 when they were ranked 9th in points allowed (maybe 8th, but def. in top 10)??? Most of the same players are there, with a few exceptions (Hayden, Session) but no real huge difference makers are gone. That defense in 2009 won us several close games (New England, SF, Jax) and smothered the Ravens and Jets in the playoffs.

SO, you tell me. What's the big difference? Age? I thought they played well enough to win Saturday, given the situations they were placed into...

If we played on Saturda we'd be winning more games I bet--sorry, couldn't resist

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ALL THIS TALK about our terrible defense...can't stop anyone, blah blah. Well, riddle me this. What has changed so drastically about this terrible defense since 2009 when they were ranked 9th in points allowed

Oh yes, points allowed. And in how many of those games did teams RUN UP AND DOWN THE FIELD AT WILL against us? Chewing up large chunks of game clock? Scoring defense is misleading.

Our unit has always sans 2006 playoffs, and continues to, SUCK!

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In my opinion, it's been play-calling. In his first year, Coyer made some aggressive calls, dialed up some blitzes at the right time, called stunts at the right time, etc. Ever since then, his play-calling has gotten more and more passive

Dead on. If this year's team believes Manning will be back and they want to stay in contention, both the defense and offense are going to have to take more chances. Long balls and blitzing are the things that will keep this team in games.

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In my opinion, it's been play-calling. In his first year, Coyer made some aggressive calls, dialed up some blitzes at the right time, called stunts at the right time, etc. Ever since then, his play-calling has gotten more and more passive

same things happened with Meeks. why do they get complacent?

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Yes, I know points allowed is a bit misleading....but that 2009 defense WAS more aggressive as pointed out by hitstick21. They saved our butts in a number of close games that year, allowing us to get to 14-0 and the SB. Even in the SB we got conservative, especially in the 2nd half. I remember Brees being all out of whack in the 1st half, b/c we were pressuring him big time. Then, we sit back and he picked us apart. Freeney being a non-factor in the 2nd half didn't help but there were 10 other players on the field that night. If anything, we should be MORE aggressive this season due to our situation. heck, throw the kitchen sink at them! We'll probably get burned at times, but it beats watching a team drive 80 yards and chew 9 minutes of clock. With Mannning and his quick strike abilities, we had the luxury of "bend but don't break" and often it worked, holding teams to FGs and giving 18 the ball to work his magic. Now that he's gone, we need to take more chances. Coyer better dial it up against the Steelers, or it's gonna be a LONG day. The Ravens showed how to rattle Ben, the thing that everyone thinks makes him so great (staying in the pocket, taking hits but staying upright) can also be his own worst enemy (see Ravens week 1 and last season's SB)

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If a team like the Rams that plays a 4-3 can get vets like Jon Leiber from Vikes, Popinga from Packers to shore their LB corp, get Al Harris for their CB corp and Quintin Mikell for their safety play, having such vets allows you to play more complicated schemes and because of our simple schemes, we could choose not to invest in free agency on D. For years, we drafted folks on D that other teams had less need for because of our Cover 2 shell based system. Coyer had enough vets like Session and Hayden playing healthy alongside the usual vets we still have - Brackett, Freeney, Mathis and Bethea. Health was kind to us in 2009 (except for Sanders) till Freeney got messed up before the SB. Besides, if you look at our schedule, we played the NFC West, which is never a great barometer for healthy competition, IMO. Last year, 3 teams from the NFC South had such good records and I still believe the Saints out of that 3 are the only legit team, the Falcons and Bucs records were inflated thanks to the NFC West again.

So, I don't think our D was tested against tougher Os as much in 2009. We didn't play the Chargers or Steelers who both caused different kinds of issues for us and having 2 nose tackle like bodies in the middle with AJ & Muir with Muir having the best year of his career with us, we did well vs running teams like the Ravens and Jets too. Thus, we made several 3rd down and 4th down stops vs running teams, heck we even stopped the 4th down attempt in the SB, we were stout vs the run in the middle that year. But AJ & Muir never pushed the pocket and were not the disruptive 3-tech kinds of DTs vs the pass. The result, the Pats carved us for 34 points. Thanks to the 4th & 2, we beat them 35-34 on Manning's arm. That is why the Chargers would have been a nightmare matchup for us even in 2009 in the AFCCG and am glad we played the Jets for that reason. The next good passing team we played, the Saints, we had issues and we know the result.

Hence Coyer, on pass D, has not been really that much of an upgrade in my eyes over Ron Meeks.

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ALL THIS TALK about our terrible defense...can't stop anyone, blah blah. Well, riddle me this. What has changed so drastically about this terrible defense since 2009 when they were ranked 9th in points allowed (maybe 8th, but def. in top 10)??? Most of the same players are there, with a few exceptions (Hayden, Session) but no real huge difference makers are gone. That defense in 2009 won us several close games (New England, SF, Jax) and smothered the Ravens and Jets in the playoffs.

SO, you tell me. What's the big difference? Age? I thought they played well enough to win Saturday, given the situations they were placed into...

Lets see Nevis, anderson, brayton not to mention... the colts have gotten better up front. I thin ppl are taking this WAY TOO FAR, its only two games... some of the teams with great stats are sucky teams and they will show their true colors... the colts numbers dont tell the whole story. that defense will be better than years past and they have shown some of that in the browns game.... ppl need to remember in the texans game brayton, anderson and johnson nor nevis saw alot of time BUT in the browns game that changed and it produced.

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It seems like we cant fly to the ball as fast as we used to,and the bad thing is, that is their excuse for having undersized LB's,safety's and CB's.

i like Lacey but Tryon i think needs to stick to special teams,who thinks we are in dire need of bigger and/or faster corners?

we need some cbs who are taller than 5'9" and fast to cover the 6'3" receivers

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2009 Regular Season Defense

In 2009 the Colts were ranked 18th overall in YPG, 14th in passing and 24th in RPG, 8th overall in scoring, 15th in INT, 2nd in Tackles, 17th in sacks.

2009 ala 2010 Post Season out of 12 teams

5th total yards, 9th passing, 2nd rushing, 8th scoring.

To me that doesn't really seem like a GOOD defense, it seems riddled with major inconsistency. Also the problem not being able to stop the run leads to these long sustainable drives that kill the clock, a bad thing for a defense that is supposed to force turnovers, pressure the QB and get the offense back on the field. Just IMO.

I would much rather see the Colts more consistent in every single aspect.

I still love them, but yeah they have much work to do!!!!!!!!

Go :coltslogo:

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Lets see Nevis, anderson, brayton not to mention... the colts have gotten better up front. I thin ppl are taking this WAY TOO FAR, its only two games... some of the teams with great stats are sucky teams and they will show their true colors... the colts numbers dont tell the whole story. that defense will be better than years past and they have shown some of that in the browns game.... ppl need to remember in the texans game brayton, anderson and johnson nor nevis saw alot of time BUT in the browns game that changed and it produced.

we need some cbs who are taller than 5'9" and fast to cover the 6'3" receivers

I agree with both of you. I think our biggest needs on defense are an elite CB and NT. When I say NT, the main problem is depth. If Antonio Johnson is the only true NT we have on the roster then we definitely need to address this either in FA or in the draft. There are a couple of good ones we can take a look at in the coming draft....Alameda Ta'amu, Josh Chapman and I'm sure there are a few others. As for CB I would LOVE to get Dre Kirkpatrick.

Fill in just a couple of holes, address the DE and SS situation in the near future, learn how to call the proper plays on the proper downs and I truly believe we have a vastly improved defense. Oh and we need to keep Angerer at MLB even when Brackett comes back. If anything save Brackett for Nickel or Tampa 2 situations on 3rd and long yardage.

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They've allowed 71 points in two games...yeah, they are terrific aren't they?

Coaching.....that's the difference.

uhhh it's the same coaches on defense from the 2009 season. We've changed a bunch of coaches on the offensive side of the ball but none on defense.

With that said I do think Coyer should be on the hot seat and I would agree that he's not coaching the scheme he used in 2009 if that's what you were getting at.

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I agree with both of you. I think our biggest needs on defense are an elite CB and NT. When I say NT, the main problem is depth. If Antonio Johnson is the only true NT we have on the roster then we definitely need to address this either in FA or in the draft. There are a couple of good ones we can take a look at in the coming draft....Alameda Ta'amu, Josh Chapman and I'm sure there are a few others. As for CB I would LOVE to get Dre Kirkpatrick.

Fill in just a couple of holes, address the DE and SS situation in the near future, learn how to call the proper plays on the proper downs and I truly believe we have a vastly improved defense. Oh and we need to keep Angerer at MLB even when Brackett comes back. If anything save Brackett for Nickel or Tampa 2 situations on 3rd and long yardage.

The colts are set there, i would much rather see caldwell or joe play instead of bullit they are hard hitters, but i agree that brackett needs only to come on the field on passing downs.. Pat is the better LB

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Guest deltacolt

In my opinion, it's been play-calling. In his first year, Coyer made some aggressive calls, dialed up some blitzes at the right time, called stunts at the right time, etc. Ever since then, his play-calling has gotten more and more passive

We have to build our defense.Maybe beef up the defensive ciaching.Its lacking.

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I haven't been able tp watch the past two games entirely, I watched parts of them, enough to realize we don't look good, but I haven't been able to make individual evaluations.

My question is How is Drake Nevis doing? And since I cannot start a new topic because of this new rules, I ask it here

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And games are, unfortunately, four quarters.

You're right...however there's only so much you can ask of your defense...especially one currently built with several late round draft picks and UDFA's. However, when the offense is as ineffective as it was in the second half, the defense is going to be on the field more and at some point, if the offense doesn't get something going then it's typical for the defense to have a let down towards the end of the game.

Even the greatest defenses in the past decade like the Ravens, Steelers, Bucs (in '02) etc etc need to get some help from the offense. The point is that our defense gave the team more than enough opportunity to win the game.

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uhhh it's the same coaches on defense from the 2009 season. We've changed a bunch of coaches on the offensive side of the ball but none on defense.

With that said I do think Coyer should be on the hot seat and I would agree that he's not coaching the scheme he used in 2009 if that's what you were getting at.

That is indeed what I was getting at, for what ever reason, complacentcy or otherwise, the discipline is not there like it used to be. The coaching staff has been woeful about teaching new (heck, just solid) techniques. Lackadasical coaching has led to lackadasical play, IMHO.

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It is horrible really no matter how you slice it. They've got to get off of the field on third down, because even if they limit teams to scoring field goals, our offense doesn't get enough opportunities to score because of opponents long drives. And how about a turnover here and there? They look slow and confused out there so far, plain and simple. Maybe that'll change against Pittsburgh? Don't count on it, Ben, Hines, and Rashard are going to have a field day. Colts D, please feel free to prove me wrong.

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What gets me is that as Colts fans we are so use to seeing bad defense that some people are actually satisfied with what our defense done against a very bad Cleveland team. That should tell everybody something right there.

What gets me is that some people expect the Colts to be able to build a team that has the defensive capability to shut down every opponent we face while still being able to field the high powered offense that we've come to expect. Sure, we could do that no problem...if there were no salary cap. ;)

It is horrible really no matter how you slice it. They've got to get off of the field on third down, because even if they limit teams to scoring field goals, our offense doesn't get enough opportunities to score because of opponents long drives. And how about a turnover here and there? They look slow and confused out there so far, plain and simple. Maybe that'll change against Pittsburgh? Don't count on it, Ben, Hines, and Rashard are going to have a field day. Colts D, please feel free to prove me wrong.

I agree the defense needs to improve. I simply don't think it will take the major overhaul so many people are calling for. Also, the Colts D has forced 4 turnovers so far and that number could be higher with better CB's. I know this goes to the whole "coulda woulda shoulda" argument and I'm not going to say we don't need better play from our CB's because we clearly do. The point is that some people are saying our defense as a whole is horrible but it's not. We need better play at a couple of key positions and better play calling and it will be much improved.

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I was more or less proud of the Colts run defense Sunday, but our offense gave the Browns too many possessions. The passing defense could've played better but again if our offense was alittle more in sync and completed more 3 rd Downs, our pass def wouldve looked better.

I did see progress, just have to get rolling in all aspects, not just some.

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What gets me is that some people expect the Colts to be able to build a team that has the defensive capability to shut down every opponent we face while still being able to field the high powered offense that we've come to expect. Sure, we could do that no problem...if there were no salary cap. ;)

I don't expect the Colts to build a defense that rivals their offense(when Manning is here), but I do expect them to at least do what they are there to do. Some games they have done that but the majority of the time they do not. I blame this mostly on the coaching although some defensive posistions do need upgrades. I also put things in perspective, which is something I think a lot of fans have trouble doing, did they D look better sunday than it did against Houston? Yes! But again, it was against a very bad team, Thats just perspective.

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I don't expect the Colts to build a defense that rivals their offense(when Manning is here), but I do expect them to at least do what they are there to do. Some games they have done that but the majority of the time they do not. I blame this mostly on the coaching although some defensive posistions do need upgrades. I also put things in perspective, which is something I think a lot of fans have trouble doing, did they D look better sunday than it did against Houston? Yes! But again, it was against a very bad team, Thats just perspective.

You're absolutely right, it was against a bad team. So we will have to wait and see if the progress they showed can carry over to other games. The only reason I'm a little more optimistic than I otherwise would have been is that, while a very bad team overall, the Browns do still have a good power running game so this gives me hope.

As for the pass defense, yes there definitely needs to be improvement. Better playcalling will help and we definitely need better play from the CB's.

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I was more or less proud of the Colts run defense Sunday, but our offense gave the Browns too many possessions. The passing defense could've played better but again if our offense was alittle more in sync and completed more 3 rd Downs, our pass def wouldve looked better.

I did see progress, just have to get rolling in all aspects, not just some.

I hear ya. Very curious to see how they do against Pitts though, could be brutal. At the same time I could see them holding the Steelers to 20-25 points and they just can't get their offense going.

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