Fun With Numbers

[IndyTrav]

Last year the Colts defense averaged:

341.5 yards per game

24.25 points per game

127 rush yards per game

This year with a 2 game sample:

343.5 yards per game

30.5 points per game

136.5 rush yards per game

A case of same poo different pile, or is the sample size for this year still to small?

[GoDeep]

Last year the Colts defense averaged:

341.5 yards per game

24.25 points per game

127 rush yards per game

This year with a 2 game sample:

343.5 yards per game

30.5 points per game

136.5 rush yards per game

A case of same poo different pile, or is the sample size for this year still to small?

Same poo. We still haven't played Chris Johnson or MJD (twice!!!)...or Turner or Mendenhall or Benson or Rice...etc...

This is going to be a long season.

[Smitto]

Like seriously, you ppl are sooo short sighted. in the last game who was starting? foster, freeney, mathis... In the browns game who saw more time? nevis, brayton, anderson.... in the last game what was the avg 4+yds... in the browns game what was it 3+yds. The colts made the adjustment... those stats are misleading especially the rush stats... how many yds do teams avg against the colts this season? 3.6.... the redskins are 8th in rush defense how many yds do teams avg against them? 4.8.... statistically what defense would you rather have? id take the colts thank you.... stop looking at the numbers cause they dont tell the whole story.

[IndyTrav]

Here a few numbers that tell the whole story. Peyton Hillis had 117total yards and 2 TDs. One was a 25yd TD that sealed the game. When the stop was needed. It didn't happen. Talk about YPC all you want. If they have a 3.0ypc but have 215yds, it really doesnt matter, its a bad performance regardless of YPC.

But this thread isn't about just the Browns game, its about how eerily similar the Colts have performed in 2 games defensively, as compared to last seasons averages.

[Smitto]

Here a few numbers that tell the whole story. Peyton Hillis had 117total yards and 2 TDs. One was a 25yd TD that sealed the game. When the stop was needed. It didn't happen. Talk about YPC all you want. If they have a 3.0ypc but have 215yds, it really doesnt matter, its a bad performance regardless of YPC.

But this thread isn't about just the Browns game, its about how eerily similar the Colts have performed in 2 games defensively, as compared to last seasons averages.

it doesn matter cause, heres one thing... did Peyton Hillis have over 100yds rushing on the colts? no... Did he have 4+yd average? no... it dont matter what you say, anyone that saw the colts game will notice that the colts did very well against the run. its weird how the colts are in the top ten in the pass yet thats the thing thats hurting the defense.. so take those numbers how you want them, truth is they dont tell the whole story.

[colts_mp]

Well this year's defensive stats are going to be worse after Pittsburgh comes to town this week but the sample is too small. By the time week 7 rolls around and we have to go to New Orleans we'll know for sure what we already suspect.

[Jason_]

Here a few numbers that tell the whole story. Peyton Hillis had 117total yards and 2 TDs. One was a 25yd TD that sealed the game. When the stop was needed. It didn't happen.

1. No those numbers do not tell the whole story, they don't even accurately tell the part of the story you're trying to sell. Hillis finished with 94 yards on 27 carries for a 3.5 yard per carry average. The only reason he got even close to 100 years is because of the ineffectiveness of our offense. We lost the time of possession battle by something like 35 minutes to 25 minutes. If our offense finds ways to sustain drives more often then Hillis doesn't get anywhere close to the 94 yards he did have.

2. There are 2 reasons Hillis was able to break that TD run. We blitzed and lost and then Hillis wound up cutting to the side where the only defender in his way was Melvin Bullitt. Bullitt gives up 50 lbs to Hillis and there is no way he makes that tackle 1 on 1 and considering how aggressive the blitz was, he wasn't even able to slow Hillis down long enough for the cavalry to come.

3. Up to the point where Hillis broke that TD run, the Colts had held him to 27 carries for 65 yards which is an average of 2.4 yards per carry. Over the entire season last year Hillis averaged 4.4 yards per carry and our defense held him to almost half of that.

4. When you give a RB like Peyton Hillis the ball 30 times in a game, the odds of him breaking at least one of them for a big gain is pretty high.

Talk about YPC all you want. If they have a 3.0ypc but have 215yds, it really doesnt matter, its a bad performance regardless of YPC.

If you can find one defensive co-ordinator or head coach in all of professional, college or high school football to agree with you then I will to the feet of the master. However I'll save you some time and tell you that you won't. Holding a RB with the talent, size and strength of Hillis to half of his normal yard per carry average for 3 and 2/3 quarters is more than a win by the defense. As I pointed out earlier, had the offense been able to sustain drives longer then the time of possession differential isn't nearly as lop-sided and Hillis barely makes it to 50 yards.

But this thread isn't about just the Browns game, its about how eerily similar the Colts have performed in 2 games defensively, as compared to last seasons averages.

Ok let's compare the run defense from the 2 games this year with last year's averages.

2011 NFL rank 2010 NFL rank

Yards per carry: 3.6 10th(tied) 4.6 25th

Yards per game 136.5 29th 127.0 25th

Carries per game (out of the defense's control) 37.5 32nd 27.8 22nd

When teams are given the opportunity to run on us 38 times per game, they're going to rack up yards. If we were allowing as many yards per carry this year as we did last year then we'd be giving up 172.5 yards per game.

Another very important stat that sometimes gets overlooked is turnover differential. Obviously you want the highest differential possible. Right now the leaders in turnover differential are:

1. Detroit +6

2. Baltimore +5

3. New England +4

4. San Francisco +4

5. Green Bay +4

Right now we're dead even. However, if you take away the 3 fumbles by Collins, which I put almost exclusively on him...yeah he's taken some big hits but you have to secure the ball, then we sit tied at #6 with a +3 turnover differential.

[jtrester]

Our Defense doesn't stand a chance if our Offense keeps choking. This is a 100% coaching issue. Good Ole' Boy Clyde is clueless of what to do. Watching him on Sunday reminded me of Leslie Nielsen pretending to be an umpire in the first Naked Gun movie. (Uhhh....stike?) You could literally see the wheels grinding to a halt....uhhh....run? It was terrible. Secondly, I do not think Kerry could hold on to the football if we super-glued it to his hands. 17 years and you still haven't figured out how to take a snap?

You cannot change the personnel of our defense overnight. Our offseason showed we are looking for some bigger guys. It will take time. In the mean time, we need to offense to put the stinkin' ball in the stinkin' end zone!!

[IndyTrav]

1. No those numbers do not tell the whole story, they don't even accurately tell the part of the story you're trying to sell. Hillis finished with 94 yards on 27 carries for a 3.5 yard per carry average. The only reason he got even close to 100 years is because of the ineffectiveness of our offense. We lost the time of possession battle by something like 35 minutes to 25 minutes. If our offense finds ways to sustain drives more often then Hillis doesn't get anywhere close to the 94 yards he did have.

More ifs and buts, if they would have done this, if they did that etc. Hills had 117 total yards 2tds. He was not contained for the game.

2. There are 2 reasons Hillis was able to break that TD run. We blitzed and lost and then Hillis wound up cutting to the side where the only defender in his way was Melvin Bullitt. Bullitt gives up 50 lbs to Hillis and there is no way he makes that tackle 1 on 1 and considering how aggressive the blitz was, he wasn't even able to slow Hillis down long enough for the cavalry to come.

What's your point? If you take away every running backs best run of the game, they'd all look worse. It's such a cop out to say 'if you take away this and this'

3. Up to the point where Hillis broke that TD run, the Colts had held him to 27 carries for 65 yards which is an average of 2.4 yards per carry. Over the entire season last year Hillis averaged 4.4 yards per carry and our defense held him to almost half of that.

How long are NFL games, 3 quarters?

4. When you give a RB like Peyton Hillis the ball 30 times in a game, the odds of him breaking at least one of them for a big gain is pretty high.

And? That makes it acceptable why?

If you can find one defensive co-ordinator or head coach in all of professional, college or high school football to agree with you then I will to the feet of the master. However I'll save you some time and tell you that you won't. Holding a RB with the talent, size and strength of Hillis to half of his normal yard per carry average for 3 and 2/3 quarters is more than a win by the defense. As I pointed out earlier, had the offense been able to sustain drives longer then the time of possession differential isn't nearly as lop-sided and Hillis barely makes it to 50 yards.

3 and 2/3 quarters you say? That's what wee need, everyone on the team to play 3 2/3 quarters, because that should be good enough.

Ok let's compare the run defense from the 2 games this year with last year's averages.

2011 NFL rank 2010 NFL rank

Yards per carry: 3.6 10th(tied) 4.6 25th

Yards per game 136.5 29th 127.0 25th

Carries per game (out of the defense's control) 37.5 32nd 27.8 22nd

When teams are given the opportunity to run on us 38 times per game, they're going to rack up yards. If we were allowing as

many yards per carry this year as we did last year then we'd be giving up 172.5 yards per game.

So what your telling me is, is that even tho other teams YPC are down, the teams are running the ball more often against the Colts this year? Hm, seems like other NFL coaches don't seem to think YPC matter and continually stuff the ball down our throat, based on your stats.

Another very important stat that sometimes gets overlooked is turnover differential. Obviously you want the highest differential possible. Right now the leaders in turnover differential are:

1. Detroit +6

2. Baltimore +5

3. New England +4

4. San Francisco +4

5. Green Bay +4

Right now we're dead even. However, if you take away the 3 fumbles by Collins, which I put almost exclusively on him...yeah he's taken some big hits but you have to secure the ball, then we sit tied at #6 with a +3 turnover differential.

Once again playing the 'if and but' game. "if you take away the 3 fumbles...." yea and if Cribbs hadnt kneeled for a touchback it could have gone to the house. Once again, whats your point with all the "ifs and buts" its all hypo

[Jason_]

1. No those numbers do not tell the whole story, they don't even accurately tell the part of the story you're trying to sell. Hillis finished with 94 yards on 27 carries for a 3.5 yard per carry average. The only reason he got even close to 100 years is because of the ineffectiveness of our offense. We lost the time of possession battle by something like 35 minutes to 25 minutes. If our offense finds ways to sustain drives more often then Hillis doesn't get anywhere close to the 94 yards he did have.

More ifs and buts, if they would have done this, if they did that etc. Hills had 117 total yards 2tds. He was not contained for the game. Hillis had 94 yards rushing and I was speaking directly in regards to the run defense. You're posting total yards. If you can't keep up then go back to the play room

2. There are 2 reasons Hillis was able to break that TD run. We blitzed and lost and then Hillis wound up cutting to the side where the only defender in his way was Melvin Bullitt. Bullitt gives up 50 lbs to Hillis and there is no way he makes that tackle 1 on 1 and considering how aggressive the blitz was, he wasn't even able to slow Hillis down long enough for the cavalry to come.

What's your point? If you take away every running backs best run of the game, they'd all look worse. It's such a cop out to say 'if you take away this and this' My point was it wasn't that we played bad defense on that TD. They gambled and lost. It's a fact of life when you blitz plain and simple...sometimes you get a big play and other times you give up a big play. Even considering that TD run I think that overall the run defense was much improved over last week and especially so over last year. They are getting there but it's not going to happen over night.

4. When you give a RB like Peyton Hillis the ball 30 times in a game, the odds of him breaking at least one of them for a big gain is pretty high.

And? That makes it acceptable why? Because it's a fact of life. Not even the best defense in the league is going to contain a top RB every single play. You're gonna need to wrap your head around that or being a football (not a Colts fan but a FOOTBALL fan) is not going to be very fun for you.

If you can find one defensive co-ordinator or head coach in all of professional, college or high school football to agree with you then I will to the feet of the master. However I'll save you some time and tell you that you won't. Holding a RB with the talent, size and strength of Hillis to half of his normal yard per carry average for 3 and 2/3 quarters is more than a win by the defense. As I pointed out earlier, had the offense been able to sustain drives longer then the time of possession differential isn't nearly as lop-sided and Hillis barely makes it to 50 yards.

3 and 2/3 quarters you say? That's what wee need, everyone on the team to play 3 2/3 quarters, because that should be good enough. If you're going to put words in my mouth then I'm not even going to bother after this post. I did not say that. I said the colts defense consistently kept Hillis in check for a straight 3 1/2 quarters. There wasn't a single big run prior to the TD run. In fact Hillis' longest run prior to that was 5 yards.

Ok let's compare the run defense from the 2 games this year with last year's averages.

2011 NFL rank 2010 NFL rank

Yards per carry: 3.6 10th(tied) 4.6 25th

Yards per game 136.5 29th 127.0 25th

Carries per game (out of the defense's control) 37.5 32nd 27.8 22nd

When teams are given the opportunity to run on us 38 times per game, they're going to rack up yards. If we were allowing as

many yards per carry this year as we did last year then we'd be giving up 172.5 yards per game.

So what your telling me is, is that even tho other teams YPC are down, the teams are running the ball more often against the Colts this year? Hm, seems like other NFL coaches don't seem to think YPC matter and continually stuff the ball down our throat, based on your stats.again you're twisting my words. The entire point was that the Hillis only amassed 94 yards rushing because they had the ball as much as they did. They had the ball as much as they did because our offense stopped sustaining drives in the second half. When the other teams have more opportunities they are going to gain more yards. We can reduce this by sustaining drives on offense as well as playing better defense.

Another very important stat that sometimes gets overlooked is turnover differential. Obviously you want the highest differential possible. Right now the leaders in turnover differential are:

1. Detroit +6

2. Baltimore +5

3. New England +4

4. San Francisco +4

5. Green Bay +4

Right now we're dead even. However, if you take away the 3 fumbles by Collins, which I put almost exclusively on him...yeah he's taken some big hits but you have to secure the ball, then we sit tied at #6 with a +3 turnover differential.

Once again playing the 'if and but' game. "if you take away the 3 fumbles...." yea and if Cribbs hadnt kneeled for a touchback it could have gone to the house. Once again, whats your point with all the "ifs and buts" its all hypo The point is trying to make people like you see that there are improvements being made but that it's not going to happen over night. We all have expectations but they have to be reasonable expectations. Otherwise you are going to be consistently disappointed

[hawkeyes]

A case of same poo different pile, or is the sample size for this year still to small?

Sadly its the same poo ... wrong coaches coaching the wrong schemes!

We have some good players, they just arent playing up to their full capabilities!

[deedub75]

The only stats that matter to me are in the win-loss column. Whether you think we held Hillis in check or not, we got whipped and we are now 0-2. Claiming little victories like keeping a running back like Hillis to 3.4 ypc is for not for teams that have made the playoffs for as many consecutive seasons as the Colts.

[21isSuperman]

Personally, I think it's too early. If you look at how players and teams are going to do after 2 games, then we can expect 56 TD passes by Stafford and Brady, as well as 7000+ yard season from Brady. Neither of those will happen. It's too early to be comparing this defense to last years.

[IndyTrav]

Personally, I think it's too early. If you look at how players and teams are going to do after 2 games, then we can expect 56 TD passes by Stafford and Brady, as well as 7000+ yard season from Brady. Neither of those will happen. It's too early to be comparing this defense to last years.

While I agree with that, what surprises me is the near identicalness of it. Obviously Tom and Stafford are not going to continue that pace, but the Colts very well could.

[MAC]

Claiming little victories like keeping a running back like Hillis to 3.4 ypc is for not for teams that have made the playoffs for as many consecutive seasons as the Colts.

If Manning were playing and this was happening you might have a point, but this is for all intents and purposes NOT the team that has gone to all those postseasons, so acting as if it's a pointless excuse is kind of - well - pointless.

This is what 0-2 teams do. The reason for the optimism in small improvements is to provide hope for the future. I'm drooling at the thought of Manning coming back next year to play behind a team that can actually run the ball and stop the run. The real concern to me is the horrendous special teams and the D giving up too many easy short passes. (The Oline is currently a problem but the framework for them to get better is pretty much in place). Don't know what the answer is, but I still feel that this roster is better than the one that went to the SB two years ago. The current results are largely the result of having an aging mistake prone immobile QB who was pretty average when he was in his (long past) prime.

[WoolMagnet]

I saw a different defense against the Browns too. The Browns had ALOT of 3rd an 1s and 3rd and 2s it seemed. Thats tuff for this defense.

I saw improvement. They needed some help from the offense. They got closer. Real close on some of those big plays.

On the offense, i saw improvement too.

I'd like us to set up more of the deep balls. We seem to get penaties called on them (except bad no-call yesterday)and this gets us big plays. I'd like to see Clark late up the seam too. These are perfect for Collins coming off fake to Addai or carter.

I heard Faulk say today that 80% of teams starting 0-2 don't make the playoffs. I'd feel much better about those numbers with peyton back there.

On the other hand, 1-2 with a win against the Steelers would go a long way.

[Steagles]

This will be a pretty long season if we have given up the Foster/Johnson/MJD yards vs a backup and a power guy.

[GoDeep]

On the other hand, 1-2 with a win against the Steelers would go a long way.

WoolMagnet...the resident forum optimist.

I don't even want to fool myself to think that we have a chance.

[GoDeep]

This will be a pretty long season if we have given up the Foster/Johnson/MJD yards vs a backup and a power guy.

What?

[Smonroe]

Here a few numbers that tell the whole story. Peyton Hillis had 117total yards and 2 TDs. One was a 25yd TD that sealed the game. When the stop was needed. It didn't happen. Talk about YPC all you want. If they have a 3.0ypc but have 215yds, it really doesnt matter, its a bad performance regardless of YPC.

But this thread isn't about just the Browns game, its about how eerily similar the Colts have performed in 2 games defensively, as compared to last seasons averages.

True, but as it was pointed out in a different thread - we're still playing the Peyton defense. We'd have a decent chance of winning games with those D numbers with last years offense.

[MAC]

Amongst the things that you are not considering:

1) A more interesting comparison would be looking at the numbers through two games this year versus two games last year. Things evolve as the year goes on. Haven't looked myself, but considering what Houston did to us last year I would think there is improvement.

2) Both games so far have been against teams with a running style / blocking technique that Polian flat out admits that he Colts have a problem with.

3) The Defense is built to play with the lead. Without Peyton, that isn't going to happen much. Freeney/Mathis aren't going to be nearly as effective in total when they can't just tee off on the quarterback down after down.

There were times last year where the run D was just repeatedly manhandled as the opponent drove and scored at will. I think they look much better, and when you consider the things I mentioned above I suspect that when games against other offenses are factored in the total numbers will improve. When Peyton comes back (even if it's next year), I think this defense will be more than sufficient to win the usual 12 (or more).

[WoolMagnet]

WoolMagnet...the resident forum optimist.

I don't even want to fool myself to think that we have a chance.

I know I'm nuts but I used to be a compulsive "remote thrower".

I've just found that perception is everything. You're gonna get the same result anyway. Why not be in a better mood and assume the best?

Its MUCH better than being depressed and angry over dwelling on the worst-case scenario.

It would, of course, be different if we actually had any chance of helping with or affecting the outcome.

I kinda sound like the guy on Saturday Night Live who looked in the mirror and told himself how great things were.

[GoDeep]

I know I'm nuts but I used to be a compulsive "remote thrower".

I've just found that perception is everything. You're gonna get the same result anyway. Why not be in a better mood and assume the best?

Its MUCH better than being depressed and angry over dwelling on the worst-case scenario.

It would, of course, be different if we actually had any chance of helping with or affecting the outcome.

I kinda sound like the guy on Saturday Night Live who looked in the mirror and told himself how great things were.

Stuart Smalley?

[IndyTrav]

Amongst the things that you are not considering:

1) A more interesting comparison would be looking at the numbers through two games this year versus two games last year. Things evolve as the year goes on. Haven't looked myself, but considering what Houston did to us last year I would think there is improvement.

Thought about that, but for HOU 200+yd there was the DEN Brandon Marshall game. 40yds rushing. Oddly enough the colts best run def performances occured in weeks 15 16 17 of last year.

2) Both games so far have been against teams with a running style / blocking technique that Polian flat out admits that he Colts have a problem with.

Both games have also been against perennial NFL doormats. Perhaps things are diff in HOU, but Cle?

3) The Defense is built to play with the lead. Without Peyton, that isn't going to happen much. Freeney/Mathis aren't going to be nearly as effective in total when they can't just tee off on the quarterback down after down.

Why can't the def just simply be good? Why specifically build it only to have the off win games. Absurd.

There were times last year where the run D was just repeatedly manhandled as the opponent drove and scored at will. I think they look much better, and when you consider the things I mentioned above I suspect that when games against other offenses are factored in the total numbers will improve. When Peyton comes back (even if it's next year), I think this defense will be more than sufficient to win the usual 12 (or more).

[WoolMagnet]

Stuart Smalley?

Yea, maybe I should change my name?

I was thinkin it was Smiley.

[GoDeep]

Yea, maybe I should change my name?

I was thinkin it was Smiley.

I Googled it, it's Smalley

I'm good enough, smart enough, and doggonit, people like me!

[MAC]

Why can't the def just simply be good? Why specifically build it only to have the off win games. Absurd.

I remember when Dungy was brought in - somewhere I have a link to a Polian article from back then. They intentionally switched to a defense that could be effective enough to win despite incredible amounts of money being invested in the offense. Thinking of it that way it's a pretty clever gambit. Sure they could have done it differently, but at what cost? It just goes to the point that this team is built around Peyton. Considering the number of consecutive years in which they've been one of the top handful of teams in the league, it's hard to argue with the results.

[BOTT]

Amongst the things that you are not considering:

1) A more interesting comparison would be looking at the numbers through two games this year versus two games last year. Things evolve as the year goes on. Haven't looked myself, but considering what Houston did to us last year I would think there is improvement.

2) Both games so far have been against teams with a running style / blocking technique that Polian flat out admits that he Colts have a problem with.

3) The Defense is built to play with the lead. Without Peyton, that isn't going to happen much. Freeney/Mathis aren't going to be nearly as effective in total when they can't just tee off on the quarterback down after down.

There were times last year where the run D was just repeatedly manhandled as the opponent drove and scored at will. I think they look much better, and when you consider the things I mentioned above I suspect that when games against other offenses are factored in the total numbers will improve. When Peyton comes back (even if it's next year), I think this defense will be more than sufficient to win the usual 12 (or more).

#3 is complete bull. it's something polian threw out there couple years ago and everybody simply repeats it. he just said that instead of saying "our defense sucks, but if peyton and the boys score enough points and the opposing offense is one dimensional our defense can hang on."

[BOTT]

I remember when Dungy was brought in - somewhere I have a link to a Polian article from back then. They intentionally switched to a defense that could be effective enough to win despite incredible amounts of money being invested in the offense. Thinking of it that way it's a pretty clever gambit. Sure they could have done it differently, but at what cost? It just goes to the point that this team is built around Peyton. Considering the number of consecutive years in which they've been one of the top handful of teams in the league, it's hard to argue with the results.

plenty of defensive players got paid....freeney, sanders, bracket, hayden. unfortunately, only one of those guys earned their money.

[MAC]

#3 is complete bull. it's something polian threw out there couple years ago and everybody simply repeats it. he just said that instead of saying "our defense sucks, but if peyton and the boys score enough points and the opposing offense is one dimensional our defense can hang on."

I think your first problem is not believing Polian. Just because he is irritating doesn't mean that he isn't honest, and correct FAR more often then not. In addition, you are simply wrong.

The entire purpose of only putting big money on defense into undersized DEs is so they can get after the QB. When they do, than an average secondary (playing off the receivers) is good enough because they don't have time to get open and the QB doesn't have time to do anything but panic.

Most of the Colts salary cap space has gone to the offense during the Manning years - as have an awful lot of first round picks. The idea is for the Colts to not just get the lead (a simplistic way of putting it), but to be such a threat to score on every possession that the opposing offense feels pressured to respond in kind - at which point the pass rush ruins their day.

We've all seen it more times that we can count. What basis do you have for believing that the entire game plan is just a fabrication, and you have unique abilities that allow you to see through it?

[BOTT]

I think your first problem is not believing Polian. Just because he is irritating doesn't mean that he isn't honest, and correct FAR more often then not. In addition, you are simply wrong.

The entire purpose of only putting big money on defense into undersized DEs is so they can get after the QB. When they do, than an average secondary (playing off the receivers) is good enough because they don't have time to get open and the QB doesn't have time to do anything but panic.

Most of the Colts salary cap space has gone to the offense during the Manning years - as have an awful lot of first round picks. The idea is for the Colts to not just get the lead (a simplistic way of putting it), but to be such a threat to score on every possession that the opposing offense feels pressured to respond in kind - at which point the pass rush ruins their day.

We've all seen it more times that we can count. What basis do you have for believing that the entire game plan is just a fabrication, and you have unique abilities that allow you to see through it?

freeney, bracket, hayden, sanders got plenty of coin from the colts..so let's not act like the offense took up all the money.

and yes, i do have a unique ability...well, unique to you i guess....and that would be logic. i simply cannot fathom someone purposely building a defense this way.

[MAC]

freeney, bracket, hayden, sanders got plenty of coin from the colts..so let's not act like the offense took up all the money.

and yes, i do have a unique ability...well, unique to you i guess....and that would be logic. i simply cannot fathom someone purposely building a defense this way.

Check out the following link to the article I mentioned in a earlier post. Start from the third paragraph on page 128 "After back to back playoff appearances". Note on page 129 there is a reference to Freeney being at one point the highest paid defensive player in NFL history. There is "coin", and then there is "coin".

http://books.google.com/books?id=ax0DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=why+did+the+colts+fire+jim+mora+polian%27s+reasons&source=bl&ots=8WSPPVKO5m&sig=1ntzP1VVbjvGNkweRRJKb7vVZzM&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#v=onepage&q&f=true

The fact that you can't fathom it doesn't make it any less true.

[ColtsRule602]

Like seriously, you ppl are sooo short sighted. in the last game who was starting? foster, freeney, mathis... In the browns game who saw more time? nevis, brayton, anderson.... in the last game what was the avg 4+yds... in the browns game what was it 3+yds. The colts made the adjustment... those stats are misleading especially the rush stats... how many yds do teams avg against the colts this season? 3.6.... the redskins are 8th in rush defense how many yds do teams avg against them? 4.8.... statistically what defense would you rather have? id take the colts thank you.... stop looking at the numbers cause they dont tell the whole story.

I really don't care about the numbers. There is only one number that counts, and so far our number is 0. The fact is the defense stinks worse than a pile of horse crap. I hate to say that, but it is true

[Jason_]

The only stats that matter to me are in the win-loss column. Whether you think we held Hillis in check or not, we got whipped and we are now 0-2. Claiming little victories like keeping a running back like Hillis to 3.4 ypc is for not for teams that have made the playoffs for as many consecutive seasons as the Colts.

Little victories are what show us the Colts are at least moving in the right direction. Each little victory is one step closer to the team getting back to being a contender. If you can't look at it that way and simply want wins now and nothing else will do then you're in for a very long and miserable season. It's not like flipping a switch and all of a sudden they're good now.

....

Agreed. It's all about taking steps towards getting back to the next level.

1) A more interesting comparison would be looking at the numbers through two games this year versus two games last year. Things evolve as the year goes on. Haven't looked myself, but considering what Houston did to us last year I would think there is improvement.

You're absolutely right, I'll give you that. I might even give myself a little homework assignment and go to nfl.com and just take note of the stats from games 1 and 2 and compare them with what I have from this past week. Unfortunately I didn't break down the first game like I did the second game...wish I'd have kept it on my dvr. I'm going to keep breaking down the defense the way I did this past week and see how they progress. The one thing I'm going to be most looking for is how often they play tampa 2 on 1st and 2nd downs.

I remember when Dungy was brought in - somewhere I have a link to a Polian article from back then. They intentionally switched to a defense that could be effective enough to win despite incredible amounts of money being invested in the offense. Thinking of it that way it's a pretty clever gambit. Sure they could have done it differently, but at what cost? It just goes to the point that this team is built around Peyton. Considering the number of consecutive years in which they've been one of the top handful of teams in the league, it's hard to argue with the results.

I think the biggest problem was that Dungy just went insane with the fast-undersized players philosophy. He's always liked them small but it just got downright ridiculous when he came here. I compared our starting lineup on Sunday with the starters on the Tampa SB team, only to compare the sizes of the players, and found them to be very similar...if anything we have a couple of LB's now that are bigger than the ones from that SB defense.

What's unfortunate is it's taken the past few years since Dungy left to get to this point. In Tampa, he had DT's that were right around 300 lbs, a couple were a little smaller but still in the 280-290 lb range. The guys we had for most of his tenure hear not including '06 were in the 270-280 lb range. So our bigger DT, Montae Reagor was the size of their smallest DT whose name I couldn't tell you because he was somewhere deep down the depth chart. Their DE's were around 260ish and while Freeney is just a little heavier than that, Mathis is only 245 so 15 lbs lighter. Also, their LB's were mostly in the 230-240 lb range while ours were typically in the 215-230 lb range (except for Rob Morris) so again our bigger guys were the size of their smaller. And I went down to 215 because I swear there was at least one year when Cato June was listed under 220 lbs.

So yeah they could have still built a defense that would be designed to play with the lead, I just think Dungy went a little psychotic on the whole undersized thing.

[MAC]

I might even give myself a little homework assignment and go to nfl.com and just take note of the stats from games

Well now I just feel guilty. ;)

I think the biggest problem was that Dungy just went insane with the fast-undersized players philosophy. He's always liked them small but it just got downright ridiculous when he came here. I compared our starting lineup on Sunday with the starters on the Tampa SB team, only to compare the sizes of the players, and found them to be very similar...if anything we have a couple of LB's now that are bigger than the ones from that SB defense.

What's unfortunate is it's taken the past few years since Dungy left to get to this point. In Tampa, he had DT's that were right around 300 lbs, a couple were a little smaller but still in the 280-290 lb range. The guys we had for most of his tenure hear not including '06 were in the 270-280 lb range. So our bigger DT, Montae Reagor was the size of their smallest DT whose name I couldn't tell you because he was somewhere deep down the depth chart. Their DE's were around 260ish and while Freeney is just a little heavier than that, Mathis is only 245 so 15 lbs lighter. Also, their LB's were mostly in the 230-240 lb range while ours were typically in the 215-230 lb range (except for Rob Morris) so again our bigger guys were the size of their smaller. And I went down to 215 because I swear there was at least one year when Cato June was listed under 220 lbs.

So yeah they could have still built a defense that would be designed to play with the lead, I just think Dungy went a little psychotic on the whole undersized thing.

Interesting assessment. I would also love to see an analysis of where they drafted their various players. * Maybe this is all about money (as per my last post) and they were simply better prospects on a team built around defense. That would make the assumption that they could have sufficient success with a lower budget an interesting leap of faith on Dungy's part. He could have gone elsewhere and likely focused purely on defense.

*Not trying to divert you to another project . I'm sure you have other things to do.

[ruksak]

Yea, maybe I should change my name?

I was thinkin it was Smiley.

You're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggonit, people like you.

[Jason_]

Interesting assessment. I would also love to see an analysis of where they drafted their various players. * Maybe this is all about money (as per my last post) and they were simply better prospects on a team built around defense. That would make the assumption that they could have sufficient success with a lower budget an interesting leap of faith on Dungy's part. He could have gone elsewhere and likely focused purely on defense.

*Not trying to divert you to another project . I'm sure you have other things to do.

That new request actually shouldn't be that difficult. I've already done searches many times before for the similar type of information so I already have various websites that come right up that show a very simple list of the colts draft picks over the years.

History

2010 Draft Site

Year | Team | Position | Alphabetically | School

2011 - Indianapolis Colts

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 22 Anthony Castonzo T Boston College

2 49 Ben Ijalana T Villanova

3 87 Drake Nevis DT LSU

4 119 Delone Carter RB Syracuse

6 188 Chris Rucker DB Michigan State

2010 - Indianapolis Colts

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 31 Jerry Hughes DE Texas Christian

2 63 Pat Angerer OLB Iowa

3 94 Kevin Thomas DB USC

4 129 Jacques McClendon G Tennessee

5 162 Brody Eldridge TE Oklahoma

7 238 Ricardo Mathews DE Cincinnati

7 240 Kavell Conner OLB Clemson

7 246 Ray Fisher DB Indiana

2009 - Indianapolis Colts

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 27 Donald Brown RB Connecticut

2 56 Fili Moala DT USC

3 92 Jerraud Powers DB Auburn

4 127 Austin Collie WR Brigham Young

4 136 Terrance Taylor DT Michigan

6 201 Curtis Painter QB Purdue

7 222 Pat McAfee P West Virginia

7 236 Jaimie Thomas G Maryland

2008 - Indianapolis Colts

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

2 59 Mike Pollak G Arizona State

3 93 Philip Wheeler OLB Georgia Tech

4 127 Jacob Tamme TE Kentucky

5 161 Marcus Howard DE Georgia

6 196 Tom Santi TE Virginia

6 201 Steve Justice C Wake Forest

6 202 Mike Hart RB Michigan

6 205 Pierre Garcon WR Mount Union

7 236 Jamey Richard C Buffalo

2007 - Indianapolis Colts

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 32 Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State

2 42 Tony Ugoh T Arkansas

3 95 Dante Hughes CB California

3 98 Quinn Pitcock DT Ohio State

4 131 Brannon Condren DB Troy State

4 136 Clint Session LB Pittsburgh

5 169 Roy Hall WR Ohio State

5 173 Michael Coe CB Alabama State

7 242 Keyunta Dawson DT Texas Tech

2006 - Indianapolis Colts

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 30 Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State

2 62 Tim Jennings CB Georgia

3 94 Freddie Keiaho LB San Diego State

5 162 Michael Toudouze G Texas Christian

6 199 Charlie Johnson T Oklahoma State

6 207 Antoine Bethea SS Howard

7 238 T.J. Rushing CB Stanford

2005 - Indianapolis Colts

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 29 Marlin Jackson DB Michigan

2 60 Kelvin Hayden DB Illinois

3 92 Vincent Burns DE Kentucky

4 129 Dylan Gandy G Texas Tech

4 135 Matt Giordano DB California

5 148 Jonathan Welsh DE Wisconsin

5 165 Robert Hunt C North Dakota State

5 173 Tyjuan Hagler LB Cincinnati

6 202 Dave Rayner K Michigan State

7 243 Anthony Davis -- Wisconsin

2004 - Indianapolis Colts

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

2 44 Bob Sanders DB Iowa

3 68 Ben Hartsock TE Ohio State

3 69 Gilbert Gardner LB Purdue

4 107 Kendyll Pope LB Florida State

4 125 Jason David CB Washington State

5 141 Jake Scott G Idaho

6 173 Von Hutchins DB Mississippi

6 193 Jim Sorgi QB Wisconsin

7 229 David Kimball K Penn State

2003 - Indianapolis Colts

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa

2 58 Mike Doss SS Ohio State

3 90 Donald Strickland FS Colorado

4 122 Steve Sciullo G Marshall

5 138 Robert Mathis DE Alabama A&M

5 162 Keyon Whiteside LB Tennessee

6 198 Cato June DB Michigan

6 208 Makoa Freitas T Arizona

2002 - Indianapolis Colts

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 11 Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse

2 42 Larry Tripplett DT Washington

3 74 Joseph Jefferson CB Western Kentucky

4 106 David Thornton LB North Carolina

6 182 David Pugh DT Virginia Tech

6 183 James Lewis -- Miami (Fla.)

6 204 Brian Allen RB Stanford

7 220 Josh Mallard DE Georgia

[MAC]

That new request actually shouldn't be that difficult. I've already done searches many times before for the similar type of information so I already have various websites that come right up that show a very simple list of the colts draft picks over the years.

I've looked at the Colts drafts numerous times - usually at http://www.nfl.com/d...tory/fulldraft.

I assume you realize that I was talking about comparing to the Bucs to go along with your size/weight comparison. Maybe an average draft position (to eliminate the inconvenience of worrying about round #) of the starters on the Bucs SB winner compared to that of the Colts SB winner (and the Colts now). I can easily get lost in stuff like this.

[Jason_]

I've looked at the Colts drafts numerous times - usually at http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft.

I assume you realize that I was talking about comparing to the Bucs. Maybe an average draft position (to eliminate the inconvenience of worrying about round #) of the starters on the Bucs SB winner compared to that of the Colts SB winner (and the Colts now). I can easily get lost in stuff like this.

Ah....no I definitely didn't understand what you meant. lol Ok so this might take a little longer but I'll see what I can do.

I can tell you that somewhere I already posted a detailed breakdown of every defensive player on the current roster, how they were acquired, where they were drafted etc. I'm off to find that thread now because I need it to respond to another thread too.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Sample size is too small. The numbers will get worse as the season wears on just like they did in 2006.