If Colts Get The #1 Pick In Draft..

[TCColtsFan]

Luck would be an interesting thought but I see no way we finish ahead of Kansas City in the draft race. They were bad before and have lost their star players on both sides of the ball. Seattle might finish ahead of us as well and both of those teams need a QB now, not in 4 years so they will not be trading the #1 pick away.

[Jason_]

If we get the #1 pick and Manning seems to be fully recovered, then we should absolutely trade down. I'd like to see us trade down somewhere between the #5 and #10 picks and get a star caliber WR, either Justin Blackmon or Lashon Jeffery, in a package deal along with a 2nd round pick and a proven vet. With the 2nd round pick and the proven vet, we should get players to fill any of these positions of need: OL (guard or center), DT (a big fat run stopper to play along with Nevis), LB (someone with some size that hits hard), CB (someone solid in man coverage), or RB (someone better than Addai, no need for depth).

It'd be awesome if we do get the #1 pick and the Browns offered us both of their first round picks (which should be somewhere around #3-#8 and #18-#25) along with a proven vet. Josh Cribbs would be an instant way to improve our special teams.

Regardless of what happens with the draft though, we seriously need to make some wholesale changes and fully utilize the free agent market. There are some very good players that are going to be free agents that could really help our team win now. Haloti Ngata, DT from the Ravens would instantly resolve our DT problems, and he's only 28 so he has plenty of gas left in the tank. Carl Nicks, G from the Saints is one of the best guards in the league, and we desperately need good interior olinemen (and he's only 27). Brandon Flowers, CB from the Chiefs and Tracey Porter, CB from the Saints are both very good cornerbacks that would help immensely (they're both only 26). Also, LaRon Landry, S from the Redskins would be sort of like getting Bob Sanders back, in that he hits really hard and is huge in run support. Those are just a few of many good free agents that will be available. We need to get rid of our aging vets that aren't contributing like they ought to be and are being grossly overpaid. Gary Brackett ($5 million salary in 2012) should be traded or cut. We should try to trade off Freeney ($14,035,000 salary in 2012) while we can still get something decent in return for him. I love the guy, but he's not worth anywhere near that much and he's not producing anymore. Donald Brown needs to be cut. We should not resign Anthony Gonzalez, Pierre Garcon, Ryan Diem, or Jeff Saturday. I'd like us to resign Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis, but if they're expecting too much salary, then let them walk and use that money to bring in some good free agents.

I'm hoping by the time the 2012 NFL season rolls around, we will have made a bunch of significant moves and changed the identity of our team. I'm tired of us being the 'sissys' of the NFL!

I agree with practically every word you said except for 2 things...Freeney does still produce. Not to the level of the amount of money we're paying him due to how poorly he plays against the run, but on passing downs he is still one of the best. However I am all for getting rid of the situational players and bringing in guys who are more balanced and good at everything instead of excellent at one thing but horrible at another.

Oh and the other thing I disagree with you on....it's Alshon Jeffrey, not Lashon. lol

[Kyle]

if we hold #1 pick, i feel we should trade down. there are a lot of quality QBs in this years draft and we don't need one ready to play now (next year). I feel manning will be back and we could get a stockpile of picks if we traded a little ways down. We could also still get a very talented QB, like Barclay outa USC, later. So really, by trading down, we could still have a 1st, multiple picks in the remaining rounds and possibly extra next year, and still get a great QB with high potential to be groomed under the GOAT. I feel and hope that we are looking at young and very different Indianapolis Colts team next year with all the decisions we are going to be making this offseason...

PS I am absolutely the biggest colts fan I know and I am already thinking of the off season and next year....this year is gonna be very depressing

[TCColtsFan]

I would be happy with improving the lines on both sides with next year's draft. Can you imagine what Manning would do if he had the protection Brady has (not starting a who is better match here, just stating the obvious). I watched the highlights from that game and Brady threw the ball after sitting in the pocket for 3-4 seconds and no one was within 3 yards of him. I am sure he had to scramble some in each game but can you imaging if Manning had that much time. Even a 75% Manning could put up gaudy numbers if he had the protection to allow him to survey the field and step into throws. I know the #1 pick won't go to the O-Line but we really need some guys that can hold a pocket (or maybe a o-line coach, I'm sure everyone saw Mudd on the Philly sidelines last night).

[John Waylon]

Luck would be an interesting thought but I see no way we finish ahead of Kansas City in the draft race. They were bad before and have lost their star players on both sides of the ball. Seattle might finish ahead of us as well and both of those teams need a QB now, not in 4 years so they will not be trading the #1 pick away.

I don't think the Chiefs would take him. They gave Cassel a hefty extension when they traded for him, and they are financially committed to him.

[GoGoColts]

if we hold #1 pick, i feel we should trade down. there are a lot of quality QBs in this years draft and we don't need one ready to play now (next year). I feel manning will be back and we could get a stockpile of picks if we traded a little ways down. We could also still get a very talented QB, like Barclay outa USC, later. So really, by trading down, we could still have a 1st, multiple picks in the remaining rounds and possibly extra next year, and still get a great QB with high potential to be groomed under the GOAT. I feel and hope that we are looking at young and very different Indianapolis Colts team next year with all the decisions we are going to be making this offseason...

PS I am absolutely the biggest colts fan I know and I am already thinking of the off season and next year....this year is gonna be very depressing

Exactly, if we can get serious compensation for our top pick, we have to take it. Luck seems great, but all ll this hype reminds me of Reggie Bust. Reggie is no where as good a runner as they said he was. He doesn't have speed, durability, or catching.

[Jason_]

if we hold #1 pick, i feel we should trade down. there are a lot of quality QBs in this years draft and we don't need one ready to play now (next year). I feel manning will be back and we could get a stockpile of picks if we traded a little ways down. We could also still get a very talented QB, like Barclay outa USC, later. So really, by trading down, we could still have a 1st, multiple picks in the remaining rounds and possibly extra next year, and still get a great QB with high potential to be groomed under the GOAT. I feel and hope that we are looking at young and very different Indianapolis Colts team next year with all the decisions we are going to be making this offseason...

PS I am absolutely the biggest colts fan I know and I am already thinking of the off season and next year....this year is gonna be very depressing

I am so glad someone else sees this. We don't need a guy who is ready to be an immediate starter. We could even look to the second level of QB's that will be available in the middle rounds. Still a lot of potential there. Sure it is a bit more of a risk and they'd require more work, but we presumably have 3-4 years to allow that to happen. Granted, if Manning is forced to retire and doesn't make a return at all that will definitely change things. Even in that scenario though I still don't think it's necessary or even beneficial not to trade down and take the second or third best prospect.

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that most Colts fans are just spoiled and have gotten used to having one of the top QB's in the league but the fact of the matter is you can still win games and championships with a great QB and not just an elite one.

[Balzer40]

Exactly, if we can get serious compensation for our top pick, we have to take it. Luck seems great, but all ll this hype reminds me of Reggie Bust. Reggie is no where as good a runner as they said he was. He doesn't have speed, durability, or catching.

I honestly don't think some of you people really understand just how good Luck is. Nothing will guarantee him success in the NFL, but this isn't Reggie Bush, or Cam Newton or any other recent #1 pick. I have followed Luck since he first went to Stanford and anybody that seen him knew he had something special since his 1st game he played there. It's obvious that Polian has a love for great QB play and if he has the chance to take him, I don't think there is anyway on earth he passes on him.

[Mark]

If management feels it's not necessary to keep Reggie Wayne, why wouldn't you go after Alshon Jeffrey? The kid a physical beast and he catches the ball so well. I don't know much about his mental makeup and route running skills but he'd be worth a big look.

[Moncrief]

To be honest, at first I was all like "Yeah let's get Luck" but lately I have been thinking in my free time, we don't need to draft him. There are other quarterbacks in this years draft that can be had late. Ryan Tannehill from Texas A&M 1st-2nd rounder, Kirk Cousin from Michigan State 2nd rounder, Nick Foles from Arizona 5th-6th rounder, Kellen Moore(the only downside from what I have read/seen is he doesn't have a lot of zip on his throws) from Boise State(which surprisingly I saw a lot from him last year as i watched highlight films for Titus Young) is a projected 6th-7th rounder. Next year Luck, Barkley and Jones could all be in the draft too if they want to complete their 4 year college course. In the 2014 draft there is Tyler Bray 1st rounder, Logan Thomas, Casey Pachall, Case McCoy, Jeff Godfrey and Tommy Rees(though I don't like him). So let's not feel like we this is the year we have to find Peyton's eventual successor.

[GoGoColts]

I honestly don't think some of you people really understand just how good Luck is. Nothing will guarantee him success in the NFL, but this isn't Reggie Bush, or Cam Newton or any other recent #1 pick. I have followed Luck since he first went to Stanford and anybody that seen him knew he had something special since his 1st game he played there. It's obvious that Polian has a love for great QB play and if he has the chance to take him, I don't think there is anyway on earth he passes on him.

I heard the exact same thing about Bush. "I followed him every game...blah blah blah." What I know for sure is that if we traded down picked up Matt Barkley along with extra draft pick, I think that we would be better served in the long run.

[BoltWalt]

Hey bavanlan....welcome back to the Forum.

Since we're on the subject of Andrew Luck....maybe in the coming days you can share your salary cap expertise i.e. the new rookie cap and the eventually possibility of having him AND Peyton on the roster.

I'm not dooming us to the #1 pick just yet, but if we DO wind up there...somebody is gonna get paid in the neighborhood of 22-25 mil.

Whatever else you can share about salary cap scenarios and other veterans we have would also be appreciated.

With the new CBA, it won't come any where near that.

[Moncrief]

If management feels it's not ecnessary to keep Reggie Wayne, why wouldn't you go after Alshon Jeffrey? The kid a physical beast and he catches the ball so well. I don't know much about his mental makeup and route running skills but he'd be worth a big look.

I believe Alshon is better than Blackmon. Blackmon plays in a spread offense to where as Jeffery plays in a pro style offense. Doesn't hurt that Alshon is also bigger so Peyton or whoever is back behind center has a 6-4 230 lb receiver to go to.

[hawkeyes]

IMO Luck = Leaf .. he is going to be a huge flop!

Would much rather have Kellen Moore!

[pacolts56]

Not with the new CBA it won't come any where near that.

Cam Newton got a 4-year contract for $22 million.

Last year Bradford got 78 million with 50 million guaranteed.

The effect of the new CBA on rookie salaries has already been implemented.

[Jason_]

I believe Alshon is better than Blackmon. Blackmon plays in a spread offense to where as Jeffery plays in a pro style offense. Doesn't hurt that Alshon is also bigger so Peyton or whoever is back behind center has a 6-4 230 lb receiver to go to.

The only way I'd be happy with an offensive pick in the first round is if it's for Alshon Jeffrey or Michael Floyd. The one thing to keep in mind though is there is going to be a lot of WR talent in the draft and not as much talent at other positions where we also have need like NT or CB. There are also a lot of receivers in the same mold as Jeffrey and Floyd in the 6'3"-6'4" range so we can still grab a similar guy in the 2nd or 3rd round who I think could still be a great WR.

So I certainly can't fault your logic and would love to see that type of receiver added to the team, but when you consider the depth of talent at the different positions that we need, WR winds up being a position we don't necessarily have to look at in the first round.

Of course if we trade down and were able to get Dre Kirkpatrick and Alshon Jeffrey/Michael Floyd in the first round...yeah I think we'd get a decent draft grade for that. lol

[bavanlan]

I don't think the Chiefs would take him. They gave Cassel a hefty extension when they traded for him, and they are financially committed to him.

Oh, they would in a heartbeat. Especially if there's a new coach.

[93iskey]

Another possible situation could be that if we do end up getting the #1 pick to see what other teams would give up for it like some DB help or a RB help nobody knows what's going to happen but we can't write off our Colts after just 2 games.

[Moncrief]

The only way I'd be happy with an offensive pick in the first round is if it's for Alshon Jeffrey or Michael Floyd. The one thing to keep in mind though is there is going to be a lot of WR talent in the draft and not as much talent at other positions where we also have need like NT or CB. There are also a lot of receivers in the same mold as Jeffrey and Floyd in the 6'3"-6'4" range so we can still grab a similar guy in the 2nd or 3rd round who I think could still be a great WR.

So I certainly can't fault your logic and would love to see that type of receiver added to the team, but when you consider the depth of talent at the different positions that we need, WR winds up being a position we don't necessarily have to look at in the first round.

Of course if we trade down and were able to get Dre Kirkpatrick and Alshon Jeffrey/Michael Floyd in the first round...yeah I think we'd get a decent draft grade for that. lol

I am with you all the way about getting a superb cover corner and Kirkpatrick fits that bill. Floyd has problems off the field doesn't he. I don't think we would take him but since Chris is now the GM, who knows.

http://network.yardbarker.com/college_football/article_external/dre_kirkpatrick_scouting_report/4725620

Btw, that link is for Kirkpatrick not Floyd. Floyd was arrested for DUI.

[Jason_]

I am with you all the way about getting a superb cover corner and Kirkpatrick fits that bill. Floyd has problems off the field doesn't he. I don't think we would take him but since Chris is now the GM, who knows.

http://network.yardbarker.com/college_football/article_external/dre_kirkpatrick_scouting_report/4725620

Btw, that link is for Kirkpatrick not Floyd. Floyd was arrested for DUI.

Oh believe me I've been checking out all the scouting reports on Dre Kirkpatrick and Morris Claiborne (another top CB from LS) that I can. Here's good video clip analysis on him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWkKVUEE22w

What I like about this video (and the same channel has similar analysis videos on a lot of different players) is that it its not simply a highlight video where they only show his big plays. They broke down multiple plays from 3 different games and showed both positive and negative plays. Seeing some of the negative plays can help give you an idea on areas of his game where he might need improvement. Dre is one of those guys though where his negative plays are more than acceptable. Especially considering 2 of the 3 games they analyzed were against Penn state and South Carolina. In the South Carolina game he was 1 on 1 with Alshon Jeffrey the entire game. yeah no matter how good you are you're not going to beat an Alshon Jeffrey every play. Even the negative plays he was mostly right in position but it was simply a perfect pass and an acrobatic catch that Dre simply couldn't have covered any better. In the Penn St game he spent a majority of the game matched up on Derek Moye. Not sure if you're familiar with him but he's very similar to Jeffrey in that he's 6'4 and 210 lbs. He's a little leaner but still a very tall, big bodied receiver and I think is going to be a steal for some team if he goes in the 6th-7th round like they are currently predicting.

Oh and as for Floyd...I'd heard about the Dui but was it a one time thing or has he had multiple issues? If it's a one time thing I think most teams, the Colts included would overlook it but if he's habitually getting into trouble then that would be a different story. Either way though I can't see him falling past the middle of the 1st round.

[Balzer40]

I heard the exact same thing about Bush. "I followed him every game...blah blah blah." What I know for sure is that if we traded down picked up Matt Barkley along with extra draft pick, I think that we would be better served in the long run.

Give me a break, Reggie Bush isn't anything even close to the kind of prospect that Luck is, not to mention that RB's are a dime a dozen in this league which is exactly why the Texans didn't take him. Everybody and their brother knew Bush was not an every down back. I don't know why this is even a discussion, RB's and QB's do not even equate with each other in comparison to importance of posistion.

[Malakai432]

I wonder how people already know that Andrew Luck is a bust??? Can they see into the future with their super powers???

[Balzer40]

I wonder how people already know that Andrew Luck is a bust??? Can they see into the future with their super powers???

Because they have obviously never seen the guy play.

[21isSuperman]

It would be interesting to see if say Seattle got the number 1 pick whom they would take?

Knowing Carroll, he would probably trade it for Jason Campbell. The Raiders would then trade it to the Pats for Danny Woodhead.

Back on topic, if we do get 1st overall, we should take Luck.

[BOTT]

unless it's andrew luck, the colts should trade the pick for proven player/players. i don't want manning's last few years dependent on some rookies. well, unless the colts sign some free agents that aren't stiffs/retreads....and yes, i'm talking about jamal anderson, tommie harris, and brayton.

[Case]

To be honest, at first I was all like "Yeah let's get Luck" but lately I have been thinking in my free time, we don't need to draft him. There are other quarterbacks in this years draft that can be had late. Ryan Tannehill from Texas A&M 1st-2nd rounder, Kirk Cousin from Michigan State 2nd rounder, Nick Foles from Arizona 5th-6th rounder, Kellen Moore(the only downside from what I have read/seen is he doesn't have a lot of zip on his throws) from Boise State(which surprisingly I saw a lot from him last year as i watched highlight films for Titus Young) is a projected 6th-7th rounder. Next year Luck, Barkley and Jones could all be in the draft too if they want to complete their 4 year college course. In the 2014 draft there is Tyler Bray 1st rounder, Logan Thomas, Casey Pachall, Case McCoy, Jeff Godfrey and Tommy Rees(though I don't like him). So let's not feel like we this is the year we have to find Peyton's eventual successor.

I honestly believe the vest choice out of these is krllen Moore. He has plenty of zip on the ball and will be available in the 3rd. If he was bigger in size he would be a first rounder. He will be a stud. Super high football IQ and he is a winner.

[GoGoColts]

Give me a break, Reggie Bush isn't anything even close to the kind of prospect that Luck is, not to mention that RB's are a dime a dozen in this league which is exactly why the Texans didn't take him. Everybody and their brother knew Bush was not an every down back. I don't know why this is even a discussion, RB's and QB's do not even equate with each other in comparison to importance of posistion.

That's not what people were saying leading up to the 2006 draft.

[BOTT]

That's not what people were saying leading up to the 2006 draft.

he's just saying there is no comparing Luck and Bush....and he is right.

[GoGoColts]

he's just saying there is no comparing Luck and Bush....and he is right.

If you are comparing Bush's play in the NFL compared to lucks's Hype, there is no comparison. As far as pre-draft hype, it's the same.

The greater point is that I would rather have the next best QB along with a bunch of draft picks rather than just Luck.

[ColtsRule602]

well, even though I think Luck is still the no.1 guy, I think Matt Barkley is quickly climbing, and perhaps be no.1 by the end of the year. He's doing better than Luck right now, even though they're both tearing it up.

No way Barkley gets picked ahead of Luck in the draft!!!!!!!!!!

[GoGoColts]

This team needs to reload all the way around. I am afraid that if we just go after luck that we will be pretty good for the next 15 years when we need fresh blood at a lot of positions.

[Happy2BeHere]

Kellen Moore @ Boise State... I'm telling u he is the next best QB to come to the NFL....I will automatically become a fan wherever he goes and gets a starting job. This kid is beyond the real deal. Glad there are others on here that like Kellen too.

Colts have a lot of ground to make up 4 sure. Go Colts!!!

[a06cc]

I'd like for us to get a WR in the draft regardless of which spot we pick at or a corner that can handle a one on one.

[swflacoltsfans]

Your question 2 is more relevant. The new CBA has placed a significant cap on what the Number 1 draftee can get in a contract. Affording him would be about like affording Collins right now.

Cam Newton No. 1 pick in the 2011 NFL Draft agreed to terms on Friday, reportedly accepting a deal that will guarantee him $22 million over four years.

Then we have to sign our own free agents on top of this.

[Jason_]

What are the things that people want?

1. An upgrade to the backup QB position and someone who can be groomed to take over when Manning retires

2. trade down to get additional draft picks to address as many areas of need before Manning comes back

I have come up with a compromise that I think should address both of these without using a single draft pick. The only ones who will still be upset are the ones who simply have their minds made up that our future has to be with Andrew Luck.

Before I start, I think the general consensus is that most, if not all, teams who picked a QB last year would still be willing to pick Luck if they had the opportunity, and my proposal does hinge on this being true.

If we wind up with the #1 pick in the draft, how about we trade down with the Cincinnati Bengals to swap first round picks with them and also get Andy Dalton and whatever additional draft picks we can squeeze out of them in exchange. The question is what additional draft picks would we be able to get from them considering we'd already be getting their 2012 first round pick and the player they used a 2011 2nd round pick on. However, Cleveland gave up quite a bit to move up for Brady Quinn a few years back, and last year the Falcons gave up the house to move up for Julio Jones. And let's face it, the Bengals aren't exactly known for the stellar decision making by their front office.

Here are just some of the ways we benefit from this move:

1 - the additional draft picks that many, including myself, would prefer we get

2 - we can still get a first round upgrade at a skill position where it is desperately needed (CB, NT, or WR) that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to get if we used the 1st round pick on Luck

3 - a QB to groom in Andy Dalton, and if his first 2 games with Cincy this year are any indication then we certainly get a big upgrade at backup QB. Plus I remember reading somewhere that Polian was quoted as saying they would have picked Dalton last year if he had fallen to them. Can't find the quote at the moment but will keep looking to see if I can find it.

4 - chances are we don't move back too far in the first round because, no matter how good Dalton has looked so far, they're still in the same division as Pittsburgh and Baltimore so no way they make a run at the playoffs this year, imo.

The biggest question is would Cincy be willing to work this kind of deal. As I said before, this team isn't exactly known for the incredible deals and decisions made by their front office. Plus, all they really lose is 1 year of development with a 2nd round QB but gain who most are claiming as the second coming of Peyton Manning. Plus we might be able to catch them by surprise if we were to call them up on draft day and make the proposal so they may be willing to give up more than they otherwise would have because I'd be willing to bet they probably wouldn't consider themselves in the running for Luck unless they wind up finishing with the worst record, which probably won't happen.

And on a personal note, as much as I like the guy, I would have no problem including Freeney in the deal as well, especially if it increased the number and/or quality of draft picks we could get in return.

Also, Dalton has looked good pretty good so far though of course it's only been 2 games though I think many would agree that, at least according to the hype, Luck is the more NFL ready QB. However, if Dalton has potential to be good, then learning for a few years behind Manning might be able to make him great whereas he may not have that same potential without the kind of tutelage he could get under Manning.

One final point is that we'd also be saving the money in the mean time because we'd inherit the contract that Dalton signed as a second round draft pick instead of paying Luck a #1 draft pick salary.

In all I think this could be a win-win for everyone involved. Thoughts?

[joshuajosh88]

What are the things that people want?

1. An upgrade to the backup QB position and someone who can be groomed to take over when Manning retires

2. trade down to get additional draft picks to address as many areas of need before Manning comes back

I have come up with a compromise that I think should address both of these without using a single draft pick. The only ones who will still be upset are the ones who simply have their minds made up that our future has to be with Andrew Luck.

Before I start, I think the general consensus is that most, if not all, teams who picked a QB last year would still be willing to pick Luck if they had the opportunity, and my proposal does hinge on this being true.

If we wind up with the #1 pick in the draft, how about we trade down with the Cincinnati Bengals to swap first round picks with them and also get Andy Dalton and whatever additional draft picks we can squeeze out of them in exchange. The question is what additional draft picks would we be able to get from them considering we'd already be getting their 2012 first round pick and the player they used a 2011 2nd round pick on. However, Cleveland gave up quite a bit to move up for Brady Quinn a few years back, and last year the Falcons gave up the house to move up for Julio Jones. And let's face it, the Bengals aren't exactly known for the stellar decision making by their front office.

Here are just some of the ways we benefit from this move:

1 - the additional draft picks that many, including myself, would prefer we get

2 - we can still get a first round upgrade at a skill position where it is desperately needed (CB, NT, or WR) that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to get if we used the 1st round pick on Luck

3 - a QB to groom in Andy Dalton, and if his first 2 games with Cincy this year are any indication then we certainly get a big upgrade at backup QB. Plus I remember reading somewhere that Polian was quoted as saying they would have picked Dalton last year if he had fallen to them. Can't find the quote at the moment but will keep looking to see if I can find it.

4 - chances are we don't move back too far in the first round because, no matter how good Dalton has looked so far, they're still in the same division as Pittsburgh and Baltimore so no way they make a run at the playoffs this year, imo.

The biggest question is would Cincy be willing to work this kind of deal. As I said before, this team isn't exactly known for the incredible deals and decisions made by their front office. Plus, all they really lose is 1 year of development with a 2nd round QB but gain who most are claiming as the second coming of Peyton Manning. Plus we might be able to catch them by surprise if we were to call them up on draft day and make the proposal so they may be willing to give up more than they otherwise would have because I'd be willing to bet they probably wouldn't consider themselves in the running for Luck unless they wind up finishing with the worst record, which probably won't happen.

And on a personal note, as much as I like the guy, I would have no problem including Freeney in the deal as well, especially if it increased the number and/or quality of draft picks we could get in return.

Also, Dalton has looked good pretty good so far though of course it's only been 2 games though I think many would agree that, at least according to the hype, Luck is the more NFL ready QB. However, if Dalton has potential to be good, then learning for a few years behind Manning might be able to make him great whereas he may not have that same potential without the kind of tutelage he could get under Manning.

One final point is that we'd also be saving the money in the mean time because we'd inherit the contract that Dalton signed as a second round draft pick instead of paying Luck a #1 draft pick salary.

In all I think this could be a win-win for everyone involved. Thoughts?

Problem is Andrew Luck is a once in a decade prospect, hes the best QB prospect since Manning. If it were any other year, and we had the #1 pick

I would agree to trade down, and get a stockpile of picks to address needs at more than one position. Saying that, we have a chance if Luck pans out, to be set at the QB position for another 10+ years, and i just do not think you can pass that up.

Green Bay is the perfect example, they saw Favre was getting a little long in the tooth, and they got Aaron Rodgers, he sat behind Favre, and when he became the starter had immediate success, and within a couple years actually won the superbowl.

Now in no way do i think Peyton will not come back and have 3-4 more MVP seasons, but it is just time to start preparing for the inevitable, which is the end of the Manning era.

[jackbutton96]

What are the things that people want?

1. An upgrade to the backup QB position and someone who can be groomed to take over when Manning retires

2. trade down to get additional draft picks to address as many areas of need before Manning comes back

I have come up with a compromise that I think should address both of these without using a single draft pick. The only ones who will still be upset are the ones who simply have their minds made up that our future has to be with Andrew Luck.

Before I start, I think the general consensus is that most, if not all, teams who picked a QB last year would still be willing to pick Luck if they had the opportunity, and my proposal does hinge on this being true.

If we wind up with the #1 pick in the draft, how about we trade down with the Cincinnati Bengals to swap first round picks with them and also get Andy Dalton and whatever additional draft picks we can squeeze out of them in exchange. The question is what additional draft picks would we be able to get from them considering we'd already be getting their 2012 first round pick and the player they used a 2011 2nd round pick on. However, Cleveland gave up quite a bit to move up for Brady Quinn a few years back, and last year the Falcons gave up the house to move up for Julio Jones. And let's face it, the Bengals aren't exactly known for the stellar decision making by their front office.

Here are just some of the ways we benefit from this move:

1 - the additional draft picks that many, including myself, would prefer we get

2 - we can still get a first round upgrade at a skill position where it is desperately needed (CB, NT, or WR) that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to get if we used the 1st round pick on Luck

3 - a QB to groom in Andy Dalton, and if his first 2 games with Cincy this year are any indication then we certainly get a big upgrade at backup QB. Plus I remember reading somewhere that Polian was quoted as saying they would have picked Dalton last year if he had fallen to them. Can't find the quote at the moment but will keep looking to see if I can find it.

4 - chances are we don't move back too far in the first round because, no matter how good Dalton has looked so far, they're still in the same division as Pittsburgh and Baltimore so no way they make a run at the playoffs this year, imo.

The biggest question is would Cincy be willing to work this kind of deal. As I said before, this team isn't exactly known for the incredible deals and decisions made by their front office. Plus, all they really lose is 1 year of development with a 2nd round QB but gain who most are claiming as the second coming of Peyton Manning. Plus we might be able to catch them by surprise if we were to call them up on draft day and make the proposal so they may be willing to give up more than they otherwise would have because I'd be willing to bet they probably wouldn't consider themselves in the running for Luck unless they wind up finishing with the worst record, which probably won't happen.

And on a personal note, as much as I like the guy, I would have no problem including Freeney in the deal as well, especially if it increased the number and/or quality of draft picks we could get in return.

Also, Dalton has looked good pretty good so far though of course it's only been 2 games though I think many would agree that, at least according to the hype, Luck is the more NFL ready QB. However, if Dalton has potential to be good, then learning for a few years behind Manning might be able to make him great whereas he may not have that same potential without the kind of tutelage he could get under Manning.

One final point is that we'd also be saving the money in the mean time because we'd inherit the contract that Dalton signed as a second round draft pick instead of paying Luck a #1 draft pick salary.

In all I think this could be a win-win for everyone involved. Thoughts?

Sounds like a good plan to me, man. I especially like the part about trading Freeney. There are several other Colts players I wouldn't mind seeing traded away on draft day as well. I like the premise of getting a young QB via trade rather than the draft and then acquiring the extra draft picks. Mallet from New England and Flynn from Green Bay would be good candidates as well, but the picks we'd get in return wouldn't be high enough and neither of those teams would want Luck anyway with Brady and Rodgers being their QBs. Maybe we could work a trade with one of those teams for Freeney and get our future QB that way, in addition to a middle round pick. A trade like that would also free up cap space for us to sign a quality free agent. Then we'd still be able to trade the top pick for multiple high picks and/or proven vets. All that being said, if we do pick Luck, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be mad about it, but I think we could do better for ourselves by trading the pick away (assuming we get a great deal in return).

[Jason_]

Green Bay is the perfect example, they saw Favre was getting a little long in the tooth, and they got Aaron Rodgers, he sat behind Favre, and when he became the starter had immediate success, and within a couple years actually won the superbowl.

this simply isn't true and that's what so many people are missing. On the surface it looks like the same situation but it's not. If Rogers were the prospect coming out of college that Luck seems to be, then he would have been taken #1 overall and starting from day 1. However he clearly wasn't because he fell to the Packers at the end of the first round. They picked him up and developed him in Favre's last years to improve his level of talent to the point it is at today.

A "perfect example" would have been if Green Bay had been in a position to draft Peyton Manning. They draft Manning and sit him on the bench for 3-4 years while Favre continues to start and then gets moved into the starting lineup when they finally part ways with Favre. I mean, everyone is comparing Luck to Manning so that would seem the more likely comparison right? That kinda changes the situation doesn't it?

Also, without realizing it, you are actually supporting the idea of trading down. As I said, Rogers wasn't the NFL ready prospect people claim Luck is and the evidence is the fact he wasn't drafted in the top 5 and starting from day one. He was brought in later in the first round and developed over the course of the first few years of his career and after that he is now an elite QB. The same could be done by trading down and taking a Matt Barkley or Landry Jones later in the first round than taking Luck at #1.

[LiveColtsFootball]

QUINTON COPLES defensive lineman has played both DE and DT

[Jason_]

QUINTON COPLES defensive lineman has played both DE and DT

If they pick Coples and don't re-sign Mathis then I have no problem at all with this. If they draft Coples and re-sign Mathis, however, then we wind up in a similar situation we've been in in the past in that we'd have too much money invested in the DE position to be able to fill holes elsewhere. As a DT in our scheme he would most likely play in the role that we currently use Eric Foster in so this would also make Foster expendable.

We would still have to draft or bring in a FA NT though.