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Concussion Free Collie


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We might be keeping Collie if he were wearing Simpson's helmet like he was in 2011 when he was concussion free......

 

 

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130118/indycar/130119839

 

I find it hard to sign on to that line of reasoning. Collie didn't sustain any direct blows to the head in 2011.

 

Also, Collie got shut down with a knee injury in 2012, not a brain injury.

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We might be keeping Collie if he were wearing Simpson's helmet like he was in 2011 when he was concussion free......

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130118/indycar/130119839

Lollygager, as you are already well aware, BrentMC11 & I, are pretty passionate about reducing the severity of concussions. I like the idea of better collision distribution throughout the entire helmet myself.

“Most helmets succeed at distributing force over a large area, but [simpon's helmets] actually absorb the energy and dissipate the force more effectively...Simple physics says the head moves when the body is struck, and the heavier the head, the more it travels. The brain is the passenger. “It's a pendulum,” Simpson said of the head movement, “and necks aren't strong enough."

In other words, distribute the impact of a collision across the entire helmet similar to how car maufacturers absorb the impact of a violent crash across the whole frame of the car & make it's mass lighter & it will protect the brain better & lead to less neck trauma & strain on an athletes body. An intriguing though. Superman & I had a productive discussion on this issue once. Namely, how open, honest, & forthcoming is the NFL candid about different helmets available to athletes & what if anything does the league say about helmet design diversity at either the Combine or the Rookie Symposium? A great topic! Thank you for posting this information Lollygager. :thmup:

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I wish the public could see whether or not this this Simpson helmet design either explodes out like a bomb on impact or implodes like a missile that falls in & creates a crater. What exactly happens at the precise moment of impact from a violent collision? IS the idea to destroy the helmet completely & shield the brain at all costs or just slow down the distance the neck travels on impact?

Yes, I know it is intellectual property rights that are protected that only Simpson employees have access to, but nevertheless I wanna see a high velocity demonstration of a collision at different speeds & show me the impact in slow motion, frame by frame.

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I wish the public could see whether or not this this Simpson helmet design either explodes out like a bomb on impact or implodes like a missile that falls in & creates a crater. What exactly happens at the precise moment of impact from a violent collision? IS the idea to destroy the helmet completely & shield the brain at all costs or just slow down the distance the neck travels on impact?

Yes, I know it is intellectual property rights that are protected that only Simpson employees have access to, but nevertheless I wanna see a high velocity demonstration of a collision at different speeds & show me the impact in slow motion, frame by frame.

 

This is the type of research that an independent party should work on and release results on what helmets perform best in what situations.

 

I really like what Simpson is doing, but there's no independent verification at this point. And I think a lot of people have the idea that only Simpson's company is aggressively working on improving helmet quality in this manner. The Simpson helmet is being propped up as a potential savior, and that just hasn't been verified to this point.

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In a nutshell is the objective in Simpson helmet design, to reduce whiplash or provide an additional buffer zone reducing the brain essentially from slamming into the skull? That's 2 different fundamental goals there. Or is it a combination of both? 

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Why worry about Collie being in this section seems as though lately we have players that haven't even been drafted or signed being discussed in this thread. :funny:

We're looking forward to the future Susie haha . Everyone else could be on this Team so it's fine lol. We're just excited about FA like how I'm excited about my apple juice :yahoo:

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We're looking forward to the future Susie haha . Everyone else could be on this Team so it's fine lol. We're just excited about FA like how I'm excited about my apple juice :yahoo:

No TK no one get's as excited about Apple Juice as you do. haha

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Has Austin commented on his concussions at all & does he favor 1 helmet design over another? I know the Jeff Saturday visited with the military at 1 point to hear their research on scientific helmet findings. I believe it was some sort of NFL committee with Roger Goodell about player safety. Naturally, some individuals feel that this safety campaign is merely a ploy to negate former NFL player lawsuits. 

 

The weird thing about a new product on the market in an established field like professional football is that the very first move is to dismiss & discredit their research, findings, & claims. Why? Monopolies really detest cutting directly into their profit margin. But, competition breeds innovation, creativity, & cost effectiveness in mass production & cutting edge technology. It's too easy to say Simpson's product is flawed, too good to be true, & not any better than what already exists on the NFL market. A new mouse trap breeds fear in all other companies affiliated with helmet design because it forces the establishment to do 1 of 2 things: Modify their product or destroy the competition through a smear campaign. It is always easier to sabotage your competition than actually change & stay on top through constant testing & stress fracture drills on your product. 

 

Even if the Simpson helmet only reduces the speed & distance that the neck travels on the impact of a collision that is an admirable goal to achieve IMO.

 

whiplash.jpg

 

 

 

whiplash-treatment-virginia-beach.gif

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This is the type of research that an independent party should work on and release results on what helmets perform best in what situations.

 

I really like what Simpson is doing, but there's no independent verification at this point. And I think a lot of people have the idea that only Simpson's company is aggressively working on improving helmet quality in this manner. The Simpson helmet is being propped up as a potential savior, and that just hasn't been verified to this point.

I agree Superman. Independent verification is the key. Except I don't want this group paid through the NFL. It's too easy to be forced into finding conclusions that the NFL finds favorable in the their final conclusions IMO. Either that our have the top 3 helmet designers pool their money & research & consolidate resources in an attempt to create 1 helmet that incorporates the best features of all 3 helmets. How does the U.S. military decide which company to mass produce helmets for or sign a contract with?

 

How about the NYPD & LAPD when it comes to mass producing bullet proof vests? Cost benefit ratio is certainly a factor in this determination with annual military & police budgets I get it. How often do the police, military, & NFL shop around for the best deal or is it simply 1 size and 1 company fits all? How often is variety & change encouraged? Is the Secret Service consulted about products they use to protect the President as agents? Probably not, but my point is: Special Forces & the Secret Service are very familiar with products designed to protect the Commander-In-Chief how does this agency critique evaluate the best products to prevent fatalities or crippling, life altering conditions?

 

Flip over every stone. You never know where the next safety Rosetta stone lies that can be applied to the NFL overall on a widescale. 

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Now THAT would be sweet. I'm all for the Patriots* & Bill Belichick** making dumb moves. ;)

Because signing Addai and Gonzalez crippled them so badly last year.....

They took a flyer on Gonzo and they may do the same to Collie, it does not hurt their team to do so.

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I find it hard to sign on to that line of reasoning. Collie didn't sustain any direct blows to the head in 2011.

 

Also, Collie got shut down with a knee injury in 2012, not a brain injury.

True, but Collie has certainly taken more than his fair share of shots to the head Superman. Naturally, there is no magic helmet design that can diminish all severe forms of brain trauma & CTE. The good news about new helmet designs is that it open the door to further debate  having the courage to tell medical personnel that an athlete has blurred vision, is woozy, & can't walk without failing down. Sure, you might lose your starting job like then 49ers QB Alex Smith did, but at least the player in question is checked out, medically cleared, & still alive. A relief to that NFL athlete's family & loved ones. Good luck Austin! It was great having you as a WR for the Colts. I hope that you find NFL elsewhere without too much trouble. Stay Safe Mr. Collie & I will continue to watch you on the field where ever you land.  

 

I hope that you & your family are free from tension for awhile & can just chill & enjoy life for a sustained period of time. You have a wonderful looking family there Austin. 

 

 

NFL-Receiver-Austin-Collie75.jpg

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True, but Collie has certainly taken more than his fair share of shots to the head Superman.

 

Yes, he has. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of his head injuries. But concluding that a different helmet would have kept him with the team is, I think, off base. The team didn't immediately shut him down after the concussion. They took it slow, waiting for him to be cleared, and then let him play again. We have no reason to believe that the team was too worried about his well being to extend an offer to him; if that was the case, they wouldn't have let him play at all after the concussion in the preseason.

 

What it really comes down to, I believe, is that his knee still isn't healed, and he really didn't earn a new contract from the team. I really like Collie as a player, and I think he showed a lot of promise, but 2012 was his contract year, and he couldn't get on the field because of various injuries. Not just a concussion. It was time for the team to move on.

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Because signing Addai and Gonzalez crippled them so badly last year.....

They took a flyer on Gonzo and they may do the same to Collie, it does not hurt their team to do so.

 

LOL does that upset you, that I am all for the Patriots* & Bill Belichick** making dumb moves?

 

And thanks for pointing out the other two dumb moves they've made vis-a-vis washed up Colts players.

 

;)

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Yes, he has. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of his head injuries. But concluding that a different helmet would have kept him with the team is, I think, off base. The team didn't immediately shut him down after the concussion. They took it slow, waiting for him to be cleared, and then let him play again. We have no reason to believe that the team was too worried about his well being to extend an offer to him; if that was the case, they wouldn't have let him play at all after the concussion in the preseason.

What it really comes down to, I believe, is that his knee still isn't healed, and he really didn't earn a new contract from the team. I really like Collie as a player, and I think he showed a lot of promise, but 2012 was his contract year, and he couldn't get on the field because of various injuries. Not just a concussion. It was time for the team to move on.

I get your point Superman & I do agree with it with 1 slight difference or modification. Knees are a pretty resilient body part depending on what ruptures & whether or not it is a partial or full tear. Sure, naturally any complication can arise before or after surgery, but the vast majority of athletes that undergo a knee procedure eventually make almost a full recovery. Look at Wes Welker. Of course the rehabilitation timetable is not an exact science when it comes putting your full weight on a new knee at Playoff game speed.

In reality, you are 100% right though Superman. INDY was paying Collie way too much money to sit on the sideline bench. No argument there. This is business not charity. Collie had to be let go.

Regarding Simpson helmets, no specific design is going to prevent all concussions, but perhaps they might reduce the severity of whiplash & minimize the lingering side effects of concussions among players that choose to wear that brand of helmet. Do I have proof of this? No, but how can anyone when no comprehensive data documenting 5-10 years worth of research has ever been released?

If the NFL truly believed in the central thesis of safety, they would demand results, get answers, & show the public what they have learned. It's never going to happen though. Why? The NFL doesn't want to jeopardize millions/billions in brand endorsements across the whole league. It's cheaper & more profitable just to shut up & not rock the boat IMO. Nice chatting with you Superman as always. :thmup:

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Really, if you remove the helmet & all NFL equipment from the equation, this entire debate is identical to cigarette smokers. No one forced you to step on that field & take physical punishment. That was a deliberate decision made entirely of one's own free will. Just like no forced smokers to buy tobacco & light up. If you develop lung cancer or several concussions, those are the risks involved & no one hid this reality from anyone.

 

That's the tradeoff: Money & fame vs medical bills & amnesia. What's more important? Financial security or lingering mental side effects years down the road? 

 

Often times, athletes have more difficulty adjusting from a famous celebrity lifestyle to an ordinary, almost no name person. When the spotlight flips off for good & no reporter with a camera cares what you think anymore, that literally crushes some former NFL greats emotionally & psychologically. 

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LOL does that upset you, that I am all for the Patriots* & Bill Belichick** making dumb moves?

 

And thanks for pointing out the other two dumb moves they've made vis-a-vis washed up Colts players.

 

;)

Good thing we have a GM that is willing to take chances. I would start listing Colts players that Grigson (or Belicheck for that matter if you want to argue that) took a flyer on and ended up starting but I would be writing all day. I am not upset about your Belicheck comment, more upset that you find Collie not worthy of a second chance anywhere without being labeled the "dumbest move". 

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I've done a fair amount of research in, and direct treatment of, closed head injury.  Traumatic brain injury results from a change in velocity (acceleration) of the brain.  There is very little that a "better" helmet can do to improve upon concussions and brain injury.  We really aren't seeing an increase in concussions in the NFL, we are simply seeing and increase in awareness and litigation.  If you like the current game of football you will have to get used to concussions.  It's troubling to reconcile a desire to see the game stay the same vs a desire for better player safety.  I suspect given litigation issues veiled in discussions using the word "safety" the NFL will yield in favor of the latter.

I'm disappointed that collie was not kept on with the colts, but I suspect there is also a trend towards labeling a player as injury prone without thinking much further.

Without much pure intelligence on the matter, I suspect that the depression and suicide rate among ex-NFL players has much more to do with fame->anonymity and wealthy->bankruptcy trends than it does with post-concussive dementia (many demented individuals are pleasantly ambivalent, sadly).  I think it's the families that desire a free last payout that allow for litigation towards the dementia argument?

I've said all along that I believe collie is ok to play from a concussion standpoint, it's just a calculated risk and probably not a high one (I admit I'm not exactly in the loop on the severity of his concussions).

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Bill Simpson is probably one of the coolest guys you could ever meet. He is passionate about safety, and wants to make things better for players. Also, it wasn't just Collie wearing his helmets.

 

Bottom line is, 2011 he was wearing Simpson's helmet....he didn't get any concussions. Coincidence?

 

Yes, he has. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of his head injuries. But concluding that a different helmet would have kept him with the team is, I think, off base. The team didn't immediately shut him down after the concussion. They took it slow, waiting for him to be cleared, and then let him play again. We have no reason to believe that the team was too worried about his well being to extend an offer to him; if that was the case, they wouldn't have let him play at all after the concussion in the preseason.

 

What it really comes down to, I believe, is that his knee still isn't healed, and he really didn't earn a new contract from the team. I really like Collie as a player, and I think he showed a lot of promise, but 2012 was his contract year, and he couldn't get on the field because of various injuries. Not just a concussion. It was time for the team to move on.

 

I'm not saying a different helmet would have kept him on the Colts. I'm saying the year he wore Simpson's helmet, he didn't have any concussions. You can call it a coincidence, whatever. There are a few other players that wear Simpson's helmet as well.

 

I just know the Bill Simpson is just about the coolest guy you could ever meet, and he is extremely passionate about making it safer for players. At least someone is trying to help these guys.

TomMooreandBillSimpson.jpg

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Bill Simpson is probably one of the coolest guys you could ever meet. He is passionate about safety, and wants to make things better for players. Also, it wasn't just Collie wearing his helmets.

 

Bottom line is, 2011 he was wearing Simpson's helmet....he didn't get any concussions. Coincidence?

 

 

I'm not saying a different helmet would have kept him on the Colts. I'm saying the year he wore Simpson's helmet, he didn't have any concussions. You can call it a coincidence, whatever. There are a few other players that wear Simpson's helmet as well.

 

I just know the Bill Simpson is just about the coolest guy you could ever meet, and he is extremely passionate about making it safer for players. At least someone is trying to help these guys.

TomMooreandBillSimpson.jpg

Well stated Lolly.  I have not said much this time because I believe Simpson is a great person and I have already commented at length on the subject.

 

I personally felt that some of the hits that Collie took were not terrible hits, but product of Concussion Syndrome.  I for one would have stayed with a helmet that I was safe in for a full season.

 

I too have been around Simpson in the garage area and the pits at both Indy and NASCAR races.  He is ALWAYS tinkering in the cars or talking to drivers about safety.  Thanks for posting the article.  Helmets continue to be a work in progress...the key is PROGRESS not Digress.

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Man has Collis gained a boat load of good favor for a good 9game run.

It was good. As the 3rd WR for a passing team with Manning at the helm.

I'm willing to bet we have seen the best Collie has to offer, and he will never reach that level again. Or come anywhere near it.

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Britt                Auburn ILB          6'0"        236 141.           Monty Rice         Georgia OLB        6'1"        235 142.           Kylen Granson   SMU      TE           6'2''        235 143.           Kellen Mond      Texas A&M         QB          6'3"        217 144.           Paddy Fisher      Northwestern   ILB          6'4"        246 145.           Amari Rodgers  Clemson              WR         5'9"        210 146.           Jamien Sherwood            Auburn S              6'2''        220 147.           Max Duffy           Kentucky             P             6'1"        185 148.           Spencer K. Brown             Northern Iowa  OT          6'9''        321 149.           Nico Collins         Michigan              WR         6'4"        222 150.           Tommy Togiai    Ohio State           DL3T      6'2"        300 151.           JaCoby Stevens LSU        S              6'1''        228 152.           Jordan Smith      UAB       EDGE     6'7"        255 153.           Tyler Vaughns   USC        WR         6'2"        190 154.           Jack Anderson   Texas Tech          OG         6'5"        315 155.           Bobby Brown III Texas A&M         DL1T      6'3"        325 156.           Darren Hall          San Diego State CB           6'0"        190 157.           Donovan Stiner Florida  S              6'1"        203 158.           Wyatt Hubert    Kansas State       EDGE     6'3"        270 159.           Thomas Graham Jr.         Oregon CB           5'10"      193 160.           Shemar Jean-Charles      Appalachian State            CB           5'11"      190 161.           Malik Herring     Georgia DL5T      6'3"        283 162.           Daelin Hayes      Notre Dame       EDGE     6'4"        268 163.           Tommy Kraemer              Notre Dame       OG         6'6"        317 164.           Marco Wilson    Florida  CB           6'0"        190 165.           Trill Williams       Syracuse              CB           6'2'         198 166.           Shaka Toney       Penn State          EDGE     6'3"        243 167.           Jimmy Morrissey              Pitt         OC          6'3"        305 168.           Sam Ehlinger      Texas    QB          6'3"        225 169.           Sadarius Hutcherson      South Carolina   OG         6'4"        320 170.           D.J. Daniel           Georgia CB           6'0''        183 171.           Camryn Bynum Cal          CB           6'0''        198 172.           Jermar Jefferson              Oregon State     RBC        5'9"        215 173.           Jose Borregales Miami (FL)           PK           5'10"      205 174.           Alaric Jackson    Iowa      OT          6'6"        315 175.           Brennan Eagles Texas    WR         6'2"        225 176.           Tommy Doyle    Miami (OH)         OT          6'8''        326 177.           Jonathan Marshall           Arkansas              DL1T      6'3"        317 178.           Shane Buechele SMU      QB          6'1"        207 179.           Joshua Kaindoh Florida State       EDGE     6'7"        261 180.           James Hudson   Cincinnati            OT          6'5"        310 181.           Benjamin St-Juste            Minnesota          CB           6'3"        200 182.           Demetric Felton                UCLA     RBC        5'9"        189 183.           Victor Dimukeje Duke     EDGE     6'2"        265 184.           Xavier Kelly         Arkansas              DL3T      6'4"        305 185.           Kary Vincent Jr. LSU        CB           5'10"      182 186.           Noah Gray           Duke     TE           6'4"        240 187.           Adrian Ealy          Oklahoma           OT          6'6"        327 188.           Michal Menet   Penn State          OC          6'4''        305 189.           Pressley Harvin III            Georgia Tech      P             6'0"        255 190.           Amen Ogbongbemiga    Oklahoma State OLB        6'1"        231 191.           T.J. Vasher          Texas Tech          WR         6'6"        210 192.           Josh Imatorbhebhe         Illinois   WR         6'2"        215 193.           Matt Bushman  BYU        TE           6'5"        245 194.           Stevie Scott        Indiana RB           6'2"        231 195.           Brady Christensen           BYU        OT          6'6''        300 196.           Quintin Morris   Bowling Green  TE           6'4"        248 197.           Riley Patterson Memphis             PK           6'0"        190 198.           Malcolm Koonce              Buffalo EDGE     6'3"        250 199.           Robert Rochell   Central Arkansas              CB           6'0''        195 200.           Ben Mason         Michigan              FB           6'3"        254
    • Bender honey we love you SHUT UP BABY I KNOW IT
    • Trade 1: Miami offer picks No.3, No.18, No.50 and Tua Tagavailova to Texans for DeShaun Watson   Trade 2: WFT offers pick No.19 to NYJ for pick No.34 and Sam Darnold   Trade 3: Carolina offers pick No.8 and pick No.104 to Houston for Tua, pick No.18,  and pick No.113   Trade 4: Indianapolis Colts offer pick No.21 (1st) and pick No.118 (4th) to Las Vegas Raiders for Derek Carr   Trade 5: Tennessee Titans offer Pick No.22, Pick No.53 and Pick No.86 to Denver Broncos for Pick No.9   Trade 6: Las Vegas Raiders offer Pick No.21 and Pick No.145 for Carson Wentz and Pick No.37   Trade 7: Carolina Panthers offer Pick No.113 to Eagles for Zach Ertz   Trade 8: New England Patriots trade Patrick Surtain and a 4th rounder to the Los Angeles Chargers for Jaylen Waddle   Trade 9: Los Angeles Chargers trade Patrick Surtain to Carolina Panthers for pick No.18 and No.73   Trade 10: Cleveland Browns trade Jarvis Landry and Pick No.123 to Chicago Bears for their 3rd round pick No.84   Trade 11: Pittsburgh Steelers trade Pick No.55 (2nd), Pick No.88 (3rd) and Pick No.192 (6th) to Bucs for pick No.32   Trade 12: Houston Texans trade pick No.50, No.100 and No.104 to New Orleans Saints for Marshon Lattimore   Round 1   1.  Jacksonville (1-15) - Trevor Lawrence, QB, Clemson 2.  NY Jets (2-14) - Justin Fields, QB, Ohio State 3.  Houston from Miami - from Houston (4-12) - Zach Wilson, QB, BYU 4.  Atlanta (4-12) - Penei Sowell, OT, Oregon 5.  Cincinnati (4-11-1) - JaMarr Chase, WR, LSU 6.  Philadelphia (4-11-1) - Trey Lance, QB, North Dakota State 7.  Detroit (5-11) - Micah Parsons, LB, Penn State 8.  Houston from Carolina (5-11) - DaVonta Smith, WR, Alabama 9.  Titans from Denver (5-11) - Kwity Paye, DE, Michigan 10.  Dallas (6-10) - Rashawn Slater, OT, Northwestern 11.  NY Giants (6-10) - Kyle Pitts, TE, Florida 12.  San Francisco (6-10) - Caleb Farley, CB, Virginia Tech 13.  New England from LA Chargers (7-9) - Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama 14.  Minnesota (7-9) - Gregory Rousseau, DE, Miami 15.  Carolina from LA Chargers from New England (7-9) - Patrick Surtain, CB, Alabama 16.  Arizona (8-8) - Jaycee Horn, CB, South Carolina 17.  Las Vegas (8-8) - Jaelen Philips, EDGE, Miami 18.  Chargers from Carolina from Houston from Miami (10-6) - Rondale Moore, WR, Purdue 19.  NY Jets From WFT* (7-9) - Najee Harris RB Alabama 20.  Chicago* (8-8) - Alijah Vera-Tucker OT USC 21.  Philadelphia from Las Vegas from Indianapolis* (11-5) - Rashod Bateman, WR, Minnesota 22.  Denver from Tennessee* (11-5) - Christian Darrisaw, OT, Virginia Tech 23.  NY Jets - from Seattle* (12-4) - Zaven Collins, OLB/DE, Tulsa 24.  Pittsburgh* (12-4) - Jalen Mayfield, OT, Michigan 25.  Jacksonville - from LA Rams* (10-6) - Trevon Moehring, S, TCU 26.  Cleveland* (11-5) - Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB, Notre Dame 27.  Baltimore* (11-5) - Kadarius Toney, WR, Florida 28.  New Orleans* (12-4) - Patrick Jones II, DE, Pittsburgh 29.  Green Bay* (13-3) - Terrance Marshall, WR, LSU 30.  Buffalo* (13-3) - Teven Jenkins, OT, Oklahoma State 31.  Kansas City* (14-2) - Wyatt Davis, OG/C, Ohio State 32.  Pittsburgh from Tampa Bay* (11-5) - Mac Jones, QB, Alabama   Houston -> Miami: For Laremy Tunsil Miami -> Houston: For DeShaun Watson Carolina -> Houston: For Tua LA Rams -> Jacksonville: For Jalen Ramsey Seattle -> NY Jets: For Jamal Adams WFT -> NY Jets For Sam Darnold Indianapolis -> Las Vegas For Derek Carr Tennessee -> Denver (1st, 2nd and 3rd for pick No. 9, Kwity Paye) Las Vegas -> Philadelphia for Carson Wentz New England -> Chargers for Jaylen Waddle Carolina -> Chargers for Patrick Surtain Pittsburgh -> Tampa Bay for Mac Jones     Round 2   33.  Jacksonville (1-15) - Sam Cosmi, OT, Texas 34.  WFT From NY Jets (2-14) - Alex Leatherwood, OT, Alabama 35.  Atlanta (4-12) - Creed Humphrey, OG, Oklahoma 36.  Miami - from Houston (4-12) - Travis Etienne, RB, Clemson 37.  Las Vegas From Philadelphia (4-11-1) - Asante Samuel Jr., CB, Florida State 38.  Cincinnati (4-11-1) - Christian Barmore, DL, Alabama 39.  Carolina (5-11) - Liam Eichenberg, OT, Notre Dame 40.  Denver (5-11) - Jayson Oweh, DE, Penn State 41.  Detroit (5-11) - Elijah Moore, WR, Ole Miss 42.  NY Giants (6-10) - Tamorrion Terry, WR, Florida State 43.  San Francisco (6-10) - Jevon Holland, S, Oregon 44.  Dallas (6-10) - Jay Tufele, DT, USC 45.  Jacksonville - from Minnesota (7-9) - Jackson Carmon, OT, Clemson 46.  New England (7-9) - Joseph Ossai, EDGE/OLB, Texas 47.  LA Chargers (7-9) - Dillon Radunz, OT, North Dakota State 48.  Las Vegas (8-8) - Nick Bolton, LB, Missouri 49.  Arizona (8-8) - Walker Little, OT, Stanford 50.  New Orleans From Houston from Miami (10-6) - Dylan Moses, LB, Alabama 51.  WFT* (7-9) - Pat Freiermuth, TE, Penn State 52.  Chicago* (8-8) - Kyle Trask, QB, Florida 53.  Denver from Tennessee* (11-5) - Jabril Cox, LB, LSU 54.  Indianapolis* (11-5) - Levi Onwuzurike, DT, Washington 55.  Tampa Bay  from Pittsburgh* (12-4) - Carlos Basham, DE, Wake Forest 56.  Seattle* (12-4) - Brady Christiansen, OT, BYU 57.  LA Rams* (10-6) - Landon Dickerson, C, Alabama 58.  Baltimore* (11-5) - Azeez Ojulari, EDGE, Georgia 59.  Cleveland* (11-5) - Richie Grant, Safety, UCF 60.  New Orleans* (12-4) - Greg Newsome II, CB, Northwestern 61.  Buffalo* (13-3) - Ronnie Perkins, EDGE, Oklahoma 62.  Green Bay* (13-3) - Daviyon Nixon, DT, Iowa 63.  Kansas City* (14-2) - Josh Myers, C, Ohio State 64.  Tampa Bay* (11-5) - Tyson Campbell, CB, Georgia   Houston -> Miami: Laremy Tunsil Minnesota -> Jacksonville: Yannick Ngakoue NY Jets -> WFT in Sam Darnold trade Philadelphia -> Las Vegas in Carson Wentz trade Miami -> Houston: For DeShaun Watson Houston -> New Orleans For Marshon Lattimore Tennessee -> Denver (1st, 2nd and 3rd for pick No. 9, Kwity Paye) Pittsburgh -> Tampa Bay for Mac Jones     Round 3   65.  Jacksonville (1-15) - Tyler Shelvin, DL, LSU 66.  NY Jets (2-14) - Marquez Stevenson, WR, Houston 67.  Houston (4-12) - Trey Sermon, RB, Ohio State 68.  Atlanta (4-12) - Marvin Wilson, DL, FSU 69.  Cincinnati (4-11-1) - James Hudson, OT, Cincinnati 70.  Philadelphia (4-11-1) - Ifeatu Melifonwu, CB, Syracuse 71.  Denver (5-11) - Elijah Molden, CB, Washington 72.  Detroit (5-11) - Alim McNeil, DL, NC State 73.  Los Angeles Chargers From Carolina (5-11) - Shaun Wade, CB, Ohio State 74.  WFT - from San Francisco (6-10) - Amon-Ra St. Brown, WR, USC 75.  Dallas (6-10) - Aaron Robinson, CB, Central Florida 76.  NY Giants (6-10) - Paulson Adebo, CB, Stanford 77.  New England (7-9) - Jamie Newman, QB, Georgia 78.  LA Chargers (7-9) - Rashad Weaver, DE, Pittsburgh 79.  Minnesota (7-9) - Osa Odighizuwa, DT, UCLA 80.  Arizona (8-8) - Payton Turner, DE, Houston 81.  Las Vegas (8-8) - Hamsah Nasirldeen, S, FSU 82.  Miami (10-6) - Tylan Wallace, WR, Oklahoma State 83.  WFT* (7-9) - Deonte Brown, OG, Alabama 84.  Cleveland From Chicago* (8-8) - Joe Tryon, DE, Washington 85.  Indianapolis* (11-5) - Jordan Smith, DE, UAB 86.  Denver From Tennessee* (11-5) - Ar'Darius Washington, S, TCU 87.  NY Jets - from Seattle* (12-4) - Andre Cisco, S, Syracuse 88.  Tampa Bay From Pittsburgh* (12-4) - Camerone McGrone, LB, Michigan 89.  Detroit - from LA Rams* (10-6) - Trey Smith, OG, Tennessee 90.  Cleveland* (11-5) - Shakur Brown, CB, Michigan State 91.  Minnesota - from Baltimore* (11-5) - Ben Cleveland, OG, Georgia 92.  Cleveland - from New Orleans* (12-4) - D’Wayne Eskridge, WR, Western Michigan 93.  Green Bay* (13-3) - Chazz Surratt, OLB, North Carolina 94.  Buffalo* (13-3) - Eric Stokes, CB, Georgia 95.  Kansas City* (14-2) - Jaelon Darden, WR, North Texas 96.  Tampa Bay* (11-5) - Israel Mukumanu, CB, South Carolina   Baltimore -> Minnesota: Yannick Ngakoue LA Rams -> Detroit: Matthew Stafford New England stripped of draft pick because of Spygate II New Orleans -> Cleveland: 2020 picks San Francisco -> Washington: Trent Williams Seattle -> NY Jets: Jamal Adams Tennessee -> Denver (1st, 2nd and 3rd for pick No. 9, Kwity Paye) Carolina -> Chargers for Patrick Surtain Chicago -> Cleveland in Jarvis Landry trade Pittsburgh -> Tampa Bay for Mac Jones     Round 4 97.   Jacksonville (1-15) - Javonte Williams, RB, North Carolina 98.   NY Jets (2-14) - Chubba Hubbard, RB, Oklahoma State 99.   Atlanta (4-12) - Paris Ford, S, Pittsburgh 100.  New Orleans from Houston (4-12) - Dyami Brown, WR, North Carolina 101.  Cleveland - from Philadelphia (4-11-1) - Hamilcar Rashed, EDGE, Oregon 102.  Cincinnati (4-11-1) - Tutu Atwell, WR, Louisville 103.  Detroit (5-11) - Talanoa Hufanga, S, USC 104.  New Orleans from Houston from Carolina (5-11) - Jamien Sherwood, S, Auburn 105.  Denver (5-11) - Quinn Meinerz, OG/OC , Wisconsin - Whitewater 106.  Dallas (6-10) - Jaylen Twyman DT, Pitt 107.  NY Giants (6-10) - Marlon Williams, WR, UCF 108.  San Francisco (6-10) - Aaron Banks, OG, Notre Dame 109.  LA Chargers (7-9) - Justin Hilliard, LB, Ohio State 110.  Minnesota (7-9) 111.  LA Chargers from New England (7-9) 112.  Las Vegas from Miami - from Las Vegas (8-8) 113.  Eagles from Carolina from Houston - from Arizona (8-8) 114.  Miami (10-6) 115.  WFT* (7-9) 116.  Minnesota - from Chicago* (8-8) 117.  Tennessee* (11-5) 118.  Las Vegas from Indianapolis* (11-5) 119.  Pittsburgh* (12-4) 120.  Seattle* (12-4) 121.  Jacksonville - from LA Rams* (10-6) 122.  Baltimore* (11-5) 123.  Chicago from Cleveland* (11-5) 124.  New Orleans* (12-4) 125.  Minnesota - from Buffalo* (13-3) 126.  Green Bay* (13-3) 127.  Kansas City* (14-2) 128.  Tampa Bay* (11-5)     Arizona -> Houston: De'Andre Hopkins Buffalo -> Minnesota: Stefon Diggs Chicago -> Minnesota: 2020 picks LA Rams -> Jacksonville: Jalen Ramsey Philadelphia -> Cleveland: Genard Avery Las Vegas -> Miami: Raekwon McMillan Miami -> Las Vegas: Lynn Bowden Jr. Carolina -> Houston: Tua trade Houston -> Carolina: Tua trade Carolina -> Eagles: Zach Ertz trade Indianapolis -> Las Vegas: Carr trade New England -> LA Chargers: Patrick Surtain Cleveland -> Chicago: Jarvis Landry trade Houston -> New Orleans: Lattimore trade
    • IF MN doesn't pick till tomorrow.....   With 111, the Chargers will select   iOL/C Quinn Meinerz   or OG Kendrick Green, if Meinerez is gone.    
    • With the 109th pick,    Chargers select LB Justin Hilliard from OSU.   Surprised he wasn't up higher on the big board. PFF has him as a late 2nd.     Minnesota Vikings and @coltsfanmurf are on the clock.
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