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Concussion Free Collie

lollygagger8

By lollygagger8,
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Superman

Superman 9,166

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We might be keeping Collie if he were wearing Simpson's helmet like he was in 2011 when he was concussion free......

 

 

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130118/indycar/130119839

 

I find it hard to sign on to that line of reasoning. Collie didn't sustain any direct blows to the head in 2011.

 

Also, Collie got shut down with a knee injury in 2012, not a brain injury.

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southwest1

southwest1 2,092

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We might be keeping Collie if he were wearing Simpson's helmet like he was in 2011 when he was concussion free......

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130118/indycar/130119839

Lollygager, as you are already well aware, BrentMC11 & I, are pretty passionate about reducing the severity of concussions. I like the idea of better collision distribution throughout the entire helmet myself.

“Most helmets succeed at distributing force over a large area, but [simpon's helmets] actually absorb the energy and dissipate the force more effectively...Simple physics says the head moves when the body is struck, and the heavier the head, the more it travels. The brain is the passenger. “It's a pendulum,” Simpson said of the head movement, “and necks aren't strong enough."

In other words, distribute the impact of a collision across the entire helmet similar to how car maufacturers absorb the impact of a violent crash across the whole frame of the car & make it's mass lighter & it will protect the brain better & lead to less neck trauma & strain on an athletes body. An intriguing though. Superman & I had a productive discussion on this issue once. Namely, how open, honest, & forthcoming is the NFL candid about different helmets available to athletes & what if anything does the league say about helmet design diversity at either the Combine or the Rookie Symposium? A great topic! Thank you for posting this information Lollygager. :thmup:

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southwest1

southwest1 2,092

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I wish the public could see whether or not this this Simpson helmet design either explodes out like a bomb on impact or implodes like a missile that falls in & creates a crater. What exactly happens at the precise moment of impact from a violent collision? IS the idea to destroy the helmet completely & shield the brain at all costs or just slow down the distance the neck travels on impact?

Yes, I know it is intellectual property rights that are protected that only Simpson employees have access to, but nevertheless I wanna see a high velocity demonstration of a collision at different speeds & show me the impact in slow motion, frame by frame.

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Superman

Superman 9,166

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I wish the public could see whether or not this this Simpson helmet design either explodes out like a bomb on impact or implodes like a missile that falls in & creates a crater. What exactly happens at the precise moment of impact from a violent collision? IS the idea to destroy the helmet completely & shield the brain at all costs or just slow down the distance the neck travels on impact?

Yes, I know it is intellectual property rights that are protected that only Simpson employees have access to, but nevertheless I wanna see a high velocity demonstration of a collision at different speeds & show me the impact in slow motion, frame by frame.

 

This is the type of research that an independent party should work on and release results on what helmets perform best in what situations.

 

I really like what Simpson is doing, but there's no independent verification at this point. And I think a lot of people have the idea that only Simpson's company is aggressively working on improving helmet quality in this manner. The Simpson helmet is being propped up as a potential savior, and that just hasn't been verified to this point.

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southwest1

southwest1 2,092

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In a nutshell is the objective in Simpson helmet design, to reduce whiplash or provide an additional buffer zone reducing the brain essentially from slamming into the skull? That's 2 different fundamental goals there. Or is it a combination of both? 

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TKnight24

TKnight24 2,097

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Why worry about Collie being in this section seems as though lately we have players that haven't even been drafted or signed being discussed in this thread. :funny:

We're looking forward to the future Susie haha . Everyone else could be on this Team so it's fine lol. We're just excited about FA like how I'm excited about my apple juice :yahoo:

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Susie Q

Susie Q 19

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We're looking forward to the future Susie haha . Everyone else could be on this Team so it's fine lol. We're just excited about FA like how I'm excited about my apple juice :yahoo:

No TK no one get's as excited about Apple Juice as you do. haha

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southwest1

southwest1 2,092

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Has Austin commented on his concussions at all & does he favor 1 helmet design over another? I know the Jeff Saturday visited with the military at 1 point to hear their research on scientific helmet findings. I believe it was some sort of NFL committee with Roger Goodell about player safety. Naturally, some individuals feel that this safety campaign is merely a ploy to negate former NFL player lawsuits. 

 

The weird thing about a new product on the market in an established field like professional football is that the very first move is to dismiss & discredit their research, findings, & claims. Why? Monopolies really detest cutting directly into their profit margin. But, competition breeds innovation, creativity, & cost effectiveness in mass production & cutting edge technology. It's too easy to say Simpson's product is flawed, too good to be true, & not any better than what already exists on the NFL market. A new mouse trap breeds fear in all other companies affiliated with helmet design because it forces the establishment to do 1 of 2 things: Modify their product or destroy the competition through a smear campaign. It is always easier to sabotage your competition than actually change & stay on top through constant testing & stress fracture drills on your product. 

 

Even if the Simpson helmet only reduces the speed & distance that the neck travels on the impact of a collision that is an admirable goal to achieve IMO.

 

whiplash.jpg

 

 

 

whiplash-treatment-virginia-beach.gif

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southwest1

southwest1 2,092

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This is the type of research that an independent party should work on and release results on what helmets perform best in what situations.

 

I really like what Simpson is doing, but there's no independent verification at this point. And I think a lot of people have the idea that only Simpson's company is aggressively working on improving helmet quality in this manner. The Simpson helmet is being propped up as a potential savior, and that just hasn't been verified to this point.

I agree Superman. Independent verification is the key. Except I don't want this group paid through the NFL. It's too easy to be forced into finding conclusions that the NFL finds favorable in the their final conclusions IMO. Either that our have the top 3 helmet designers pool their money & research & consolidate resources in an attempt to create 1 helmet that incorporates the best features of all 3 helmets. How does the U.S. military decide which company to mass produce helmets for or sign a contract with?

 

How about the NYPD & LAPD when it comes to mass producing bullet proof vests? Cost benefit ratio is certainly a factor in this determination with annual military & police budgets I get it. How often do the police, military, & NFL shop around for the best deal or is it simply 1 size and 1 company fits all? How often is variety & change encouraged? Is the Secret Service consulted about products they use to protect the President as agents? Probably not, but my point is: Special Forces & the Secret Service are very familiar with products designed to protect the Commander-In-Chief how does this agency critique evaluate the best products to prevent fatalities or crippling, life altering conditions?

 

Flip over every stone. You never know where the next safety Rosetta stone lies that can be applied to the NFL overall on a widescale. 

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Pombi9

Pombi9 0

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Now THAT would be sweet. I'm all for the Patriots* & Bill Belichick** making dumb moves. ;)

Because signing Addai and Gonzalez crippled them so badly last year.....

They took a flyer on Gonzo and they may do the same to Collie, it does not hurt their team to do so.

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southwest1

southwest1 2,092

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I find it hard to sign on to that line of reasoning. Collie didn't sustain any direct blows to the head in 2011.

 

Also, Collie got shut down with a knee injury in 2012, not a brain injury.

True, but Collie has certainly taken more than his fair share of shots to the head Superman. Naturally, there is no magic helmet design that can diminish all severe forms of brain trauma & CTE. The good news about new helmet designs is that it open the door to further debate  having the courage to tell medical personnel that an athlete has blurred vision, is woozy, & can't walk without failing down. Sure, you might lose your starting job like then 49ers QB Alex Smith did, but at least the player in question is checked out, medically cleared, & still alive. A relief to that NFL athlete's family & loved ones. Good luck Austin! It was great having you as a WR for the Colts. I hope that you find NFL elsewhere without too much trouble. Stay Safe Mr. Collie & I will continue to watch you on the field where ever you land.  

 

I hope that you & your family are free from tension for awhile & can just chill & enjoy life for a sustained period of time. You have a wonderful looking family there Austin. 

 

 

NFL-Receiver-Austin-Collie75.jpg

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Superman

Superman 9,166

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True, but Collie has certainly taken more than his fair share of shots to the head Superman.

 

Yes, he has. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of his head injuries. But concluding that a different helmet would have kept him with the team is, I think, off base. The team didn't immediately shut him down after the concussion. They took it slow, waiting for him to be cleared, and then let him play again. We have no reason to believe that the team was too worried about his well being to extend an offer to him; if that was the case, they wouldn't have let him play at all after the concussion in the preseason.

 

What it really comes down to, I believe, is that his knee still isn't healed, and he really didn't earn a new contract from the team. I really like Collie as a player, and I think he showed a lot of promise, but 2012 was his contract year, and he couldn't get on the field because of various injuries. Not just a concussion. It was time for the team to move on.

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HarassedOffTheSite

HarassedOffTheSite 17

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Because signing Addai and Gonzalez crippled them so badly last year.....

They took a flyer on Gonzo and they may do the same to Collie, it does not hurt their team to do so.

 

LOL does that upset you, that I am all for the Patriots* & Bill Belichick** making dumb moves?

 

And thanks for pointing out the other two dumb moves they've made vis-a-vis washed up Colts players.

 

;)

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southwest1

southwest1 2,092

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Yes, he has. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of his head injuries. But concluding that a different helmet would have kept him with the team is, I think, off base. The team didn't immediately shut him down after the concussion. They took it slow, waiting for him to be cleared, and then let him play again. We have no reason to believe that the team was too worried about his well being to extend an offer to him; if that was the case, they wouldn't have let him play at all after the concussion in the preseason.

What it really comes down to, I believe, is that his knee still isn't healed, and he really didn't earn a new contract from the team. I really like Collie as a player, and I think he showed a lot of promise, but 2012 was his contract year, and he couldn't get on the field because of various injuries. Not just a concussion. It was time for the team to move on.

I get your point Superman & I do agree with it with 1 slight difference or modification. Knees are a pretty resilient body part depending on what ruptures & whether or not it is a partial or full tear. Sure, naturally any complication can arise before or after surgery, but the vast majority of athletes that undergo a knee procedure eventually make almost a full recovery. Look at Wes Welker. Of course the rehabilitation timetable is not an exact science when it comes putting your full weight on a new knee at Playoff game speed.

In reality, you are 100% right though Superman. INDY was paying Collie way too much money to sit on the sideline bench. No argument there. This is business not charity. Collie had to be let go.

Regarding Simpson helmets, no specific design is going to prevent all concussions, but perhaps they might reduce the severity of whiplash & minimize the lingering side effects of concussions among players that choose to wear that brand of helmet. Do I have proof of this? No, but how can anyone when no comprehensive data documenting 5-10 years worth of research has ever been released?

If the NFL truly believed in the central thesis of safety, they would demand results, get answers, & show the public what they have learned. It's never going to happen though. Why? The NFL doesn't want to jeopardize millions/billions in brand endorsements across the whole league. It's cheaper & more profitable just to shut up & not rock the boat IMO. Nice chatting with you Superman as always. :thmup:

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southwest1

southwest1 2,092

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Really, if you remove the helmet & all NFL equipment from the equation, this entire debate is identical to cigarette smokers. No one forced you to step on that field & take physical punishment. That was a deliberate decision made entirely of one's own free will. Just like no forced smokers to buy tobacco & light up. If you develop lung cancer or several concussions, those are the risks involved & no one hid this reality from anyone.

 

That's the tradeoff: Money & fame vs medical bills & amnesia. What's more important? Financial security or lingering mental side effects years down the road? 

 

Often times, athletes have more difficulty adjusting from a famous celebrity lifestyle to an ordinary, almost no name person. When the spotlight flips off for good & no reporter with a camera cares what you think anymore, that literally crushes some former NFL greats emotionally & psychologically. 

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Pombi9

Pombi9 0

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LOL does that upset you, that I am all for the Patriots* & Bill Belichick** making dumb moves?

 

And thanks for pointing out the other two dumb moves they've made vis-a-vis washed up Colts players.

 

;)

Good thing we have a GM that is willing to take chances. I would start listing Colts players that Grigson (or Belicheck for that matter if you want to argue that) took a flyer on and ended up starting but I would be writing all day. I am not upset about your Belicheck comment, more upset that you find Collie not worthy of a second chance anywhere without being labeled the "dumbest move". 

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nsurg

nsurg 3

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I've done a fair amount of research in, and direct treatment of, closed head injury.  Traumatic brain injury results from a change in velocity (acceleration) of the brain.  There is very little that a "better" helmet can do to improve upon concussions and brain injury.  We really aren't seeing an increase in concussions in the NFL, we are simply seeing and increase in awareness and litigation.  If you like the current game of football you will have to get used to concussions.  It's troubling to reconcile a desire to see the game stay the same vs a desire for better player safety.  I suspect given litigation issues veiled in discussions using the word "safety" the NFL will yield in favor of the latter.

I'm disappointed that collie was not kept on with the colts, but I suspect there is also a trend towards labeling a player as injury prone without thinking much further.

Without much pure intelligence on the matter, I suspect that the depression and suicide rate among ex-NFL players has much more to do with fame->anonymity and wealthy->bankruptcy trends than it does with post-concussive dementia (many demented individuals are pleasantly ambivalent, sadly).  I think it's the families that desire a free last payout that allow for litigation towards the dementia argument?

I've said all along that I believe collie is ok to play from a concussion standpoint, it's just a calculated risk and probably not a high one (I admit I'm not exactly in the loop on the severity of his concussions).

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lollygagger8

lollygagger8 3,331

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Bill Simpson is probably one of the coolest guys you could ever meet. He is passionate about safety, and wants to make things better for players. Also, it wasn't just Collie wearing his helmets.

 

Bottom line is, 2011 he was wearing Simpson's helmet....he didn't get any concussions. Coincidence?

 

Yes, he has. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of his head injuries. But concluding that a different helmet would have kept him with the team is, I think, off base. The team didn't immediately shut him down after the concussion. They took it slow, waiting for him to be cleared, and then let him play again. We have no reason to believe that the team was too worried about his well being to extend an offer to him; if that was the case, they wouldn't have let him play at all after the concussion in the preseason.

 

What it really comes down to, I believe, is that his knee still isn't healed, and he really didn't earn a new contract from the team. I really like Collie as a player, and I think he showed a lot of promise, but 2012 was his contract year, and he couldn't get on the field because of various injuries. Not just a concussion. It was time for the team to move on.

 

I'm not saying a different helmet would have kept him on the Colts. I'm saying the year he wore Simpson's helmet, he didn't have any concussions. You can call it a coincidence, whatever. There are a few other players that wear Simpson's helmet as well.

 

I just know the Bill Simpson is just about the coolest guy you could ever meet, and he is extremely passionate about making it safer for players. At least someone is trying to help these guys.

TomMooreandBillSimpson.jpg

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BrentMc11

BrentMc11 633

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Bill Simpson is probably one of the coolest guys you could ever meet. He is passionate about safety, and wants to make things better for players. Also, it wasn't just Collie wearing his helmets.

 

Bottom line is, 2011 he was wearing Simpson's helmet....he didn't get any concussions. Coincidence?

 

 

I'm not saying a different helmet would have kept him on the Colts. I'm saying the year he wore Simpson's helmet, he didn't have any concussions. You can call it a coincidence, whatever. There are a few other players that wear Simpson's helmet as well.

 

I just know the Bill Simpson is just about the coolest guy you could ever meet, and he is extremely passionate about making it safer for players. At least someone is trying to help these guys.

TomMooreandBillSimpson.jpg

Well stated Lolly.  I have not said much this time because I believe Simpson is a great person and I have already commented at length on the subject.

 

I personally felt that some of the hits that Collie took were not terrible hits, but product of Concussion Syndrome.  I for one would have stayed with a helmet that I was safe in for a full season.

 

I too have been around Simpson in the garage area and the pits at both Indy and NASCAR races.  He is ALWAYS tinkering in the cars or talking to drivers about safety.  Thanks for posting the article.  Helmets continue to be a work in progress...the key is PROGRESS not Digress.

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IndyTrav

IndyTrav 9

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Man has Collis gained a boat load of good favor for a good 9game run.

It was good. As the 3rd WR for a passing team with Manning at the helm.

I'm willing to bet we have seen the best Collie has to offer, and he will never reach that level again. Or come anywhere near it.

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