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WoolMagnet
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Forgive me if I am skeptical about the source and many other things in the thread.

1) My tendency is to not give much credibility to anything that starts with "my fraternity brother said"

I'm with you and I'd feel the same way.

2) Irsay recently tweeted that Manning will be back with another 3-4 excellent years once he comes back. Certainly counter to your story.

Irsay also tweeted he was in Favre's hometown

3) Archie is going to talk sense into him? First off, does anyone really believe the doctors would clear him to play if he is more at risk for a threatening injury than he would have been otherwise?

Yes they would. Collie has higher risk of concussions now than he did before

4) Lastly, his recovery will happen or it won't. Anything past that is speculation for the uninformed. No sense in putting a whole lot of thought or worry into it.

No reason to hide your head in the sand either

Then don't believe what I said. I don't care. It doesn't bother me.

But the guy woundn't lie to me.

Just don't get your hopes up about seein Peyton this year. I'm just sayin.... for what its worth.

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Im calling nonsense.

Something isnt right about the whole thing. Someone knows Irsay personally? And if not, they are able to get close enough to overhear him while playing golf?

He was IN the discussion.

Ok, fine, for the moment, lets say it actually happened.

Where were they playing, when were they playing, and how was your friend able to get so close?

His friend is buddies with Irsay (mutual friends)

If you cant answer all 3, its nonsense.

Also, if the situation is so dire, why was Manning at practice? And joking with people as well?

He's STILL on the team and his pockets ARE full.

Either Manning was an impostor, or someone got their facts WAY wrong...

What I said was true. I stand by it.

My friend is an attorney in his mid-forties. He's not a greeter at Walmart.

Have you ever been a member of a country club? Its different. I've been told stories by doctors which shouldn't have been repeated. Judges have discussed case details that , imo, were not public knowledge. Its different in that circle.

Just don't believe it if you want. I'm certainly not gonna "grill" my friend.

Because I don't question his word.

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The speculation is really crazy. Im going to take the colts organization at their word for now and hiope the Man is back by Jacksonville or right after the bye.

I wouldn't count on him coming back this season, especially if we have a losing record. I think it would be best for him to recover 100% and come back next season.

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What I said was true. I stand by it.

My friend is an attorney in his mid-forties. He's not a greeter at Walmart.

Have you ever been a member of a country club? Its different. I've been told stories by doctors which shouldn't have been repeated. Judges have discussed case details that , imo, were not public knowledge. Its different in that circle.

Just don't believe it if you want. I'm certainly not gonna "grill" my friend.

Because I don't question his word.

A friend of a friend...ok.

I never said he was a greeter at Wal-Mart...but to say the source is Irsay himself, you should expect questions.

I know how it works, as I have many acquaintances that belong to country clubs. I personally cant stand golf, nor some of the attitudes that seem to be so prevalent around those clubs so I avoid them like the plague.

I also know that quite a bit of what is said is speculation, and fish stories, blown up a bit here and there to sound better to ones friends that know no better.

Im glad you trust your friend so well, but as with most gossip of this magnitude, you should expect to be questioned, or grilled as you put it, about the source. As a matter of fact, so should your friend.

There is nothing wrong with questioning a friend, unless he would take it so personal as to not be your friend anymore, and in that case, wasnt one to begin with.

Im not saying you should or have to, just that I would have zero problem asking one of my friends who reported something like this for quite a bit more detail, and I know that none of my friends would have any problems doing so.

As to my point about Manning being at practice, if all you can come up with as a reason for him to be there is because he is on the team, why wasnt he there last week?

He is there because he is feeling better and able to move around and interact with people without issue. If it would cause a problem to be moving around, as some have said in other threads after a similar surgery, he wouldnt be there.

My point was, he is recovering, and well enough at this point to be active.

That bit of info is hard to deny, and saying he wont be playing again, at an 85% certainty, sort of goes against that. Were he in that bad of shape, he wouldnt be at practice this soon. He wouldnt be up and moving around so much so soon.

You guys can play doom and gloom all you want, but as this plays out, and Manning is more and more involved with the team, and more active, and shows he is recovering as they said he would, then what will you do? Pray for a setback?

I dont care if he comes back this season, but he will be back. To think otherwise is foolish at this point.

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I just got a message from a fraternity bro who lives in Indy.

I live in Pa so the info I get is slim to none.

Anyway, he told me to frame my Manning jersey because we'll never see him play again.

While this has crossed my mind(I have a bad gut feeling similar to Marvin's "end"), I really haven't heard anyone saying it.

I'm gonna hold out hope that he can return until it is official, but has anyone heard any concrete evidence of this?

He's a pretty smart guy and seems "plugged-in" to Indiana politics.

I hope he's wrong. OBVIOUSLY!

Your Fraternity brother is wrong. Manning will play again, possibly this season, and when this thing finally heals, it will be strong and he will feel better than he has in YEARS.

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A friend of a friend...ok.

I never said he was a greeter at Wal-Mart...but to say the source is Irsay himself, you should expect questions.

I know how it works, as I have many acquaintances that belong to country clubs. I personally cant stand golf, nor some of the attitudes that seem to be so prevalent around those clubs so I avoid them like the plague.

I also know that quite a bit of what is said is speculation, and fish stories, blown up a bit here and there to sound better to ones friends that know no better.

Im glad you trust your friend so well, but as with most gossip of this magnitude, you should expect to be questioned, or grilled as you put it, about the source. As a matter of fact, so should your friend.

There is nothing wrong with questioning a friend, unless he would take it so personal as to not be your friend anymore, and in that case, wasnt one to begin with.

Im not saying you should or have to, just that I would have zero problem asking one of my friends who reported something like this for quite a bit more detail, and I know that none of my friends would have any problems doing so.

As to my point about Manning being at practice, if all you can come up with as a reason for him to be there is because he is on the team, why wasnt he there last week?

He is there because he is feeling better and able to move around and interact with people without issue. If it would cause a problem to be moving around, as some have said in other threads after a similar surgery, he wouldnt be there.

My point was, he is recovering, and well enough at this point to be active.

That bit of info is hard to deny, and saying he wont be playing again, at an 85% certainty, sort of goes against that. Were he in that bad of shape, he wouldnt be at practice this soon. He wouldnt be up and moving around so much so soon.

You guys can play doom and gloom all you want, but as this plays out, and Manning is more and more involved with the team, and more active, and shows he is recovering as they said he would, then what will you do? Pray for a setback?

I dont care if he comes back this season, but he will be back. To think otherwise is foolish at this point.

No prob. If I were in your shoes I would feel the same.

And if you knew me, you'd know I'm the polar opposite of doom and gloom.

I just thought it was interesting that that was the "opinion" of Irsay.

I say that believing my friend did actually golf with him and he did actually hear him say that. I have NO reason to ever imagine he'd be lying and I know he wouldn't loke about it.

I have no problem with your dis-belief but what is with the "then what will you do? Pray for a setback?" Read some of my other posts. I'm in it for the long-haul. With or without Manning. It was the first "concrete" word I heard about his condition. And because I trusted 1 guy, I believe it. It wasn't a guy heard from a guy thing.

I've been here for a long time. I'm not gonna troll or start lies.

It wasn't meant to be doom & Gloom. Just what I thought was some information.

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Here is the actual messages he sent me:

1st message:

Good to hear from ya Bro. Yea. Going to be a tough year. And if you have a No. 18 jersey, frame it. You will never see him play again. Good news is we might suck so bad this year we end up in the Andrew Luck Lottery...

Then I saked , WHAT?! done for good?

This is his 2nd message (response):

I was playing in a foursome with Irsay (a buddy knows him) at a golf tournament the day the news broke that Manning was done for the season. Sureal. Irsay is a wierd dude. Anyway, he said there is an 80% chance he never plays again. Any other QB he would give a 95% chance of never playing again, but if anyone will try to come back it will be Peyton.

All that money, two new kids, 35 years old? I bet Archie sits him down and tells him it's time to hang it up. Sucks...

How do you take it? Assuming you, like I, believe him.

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Here is the actual messages he sent me:

1st message:

Good to hear from ya Bro. Yea. Going to be a tough year. And if you have a No. 18 jersey, frame it. You will never see him play again. Good news is we might suck so bad this year we end up in the Andrew Luck Lottery...

Then I saked , WHAT?! done for good?

This is his 2nd message (response):

I was playing in a foursome with Irsay (a buddy knows him) at a golf tournament the day the news broke that Manning was done for the season. Sureal. Irsay is a wierd dude. Anyway, he said there is an 80% chance he never plays again. Any other QB he would give a 95% chance of never playing again, but if anyone will try to come back it will be Peyton.

All that money, two new kids, 35 years old? I bet Archie sits him down and tells him it's time to hang it up. Sucks...

How do you take it? Assuming you, like I, believe him.

Agree with previous posts: while it's not impossible that this 3rd-hand info is true, I don't really believe anything that even Irsay thinks at this point. And I think the elite boys-club secrets are pretty much worthless nonsense. Remember, that's how Madoff recruited a bunch of wealthy suckers into his pyramid scheme: people love to believe they are privileged and special to the point that they overlook facts and common sense.

Things may have been over-simpified for Irsay. Based on seeing hundreds of patients following surgeries like these, I'd say that Manning will certainly be allowed to play next year, and given his pride my guess is that he will try unless his arm strength is simply unacceptable. I would guess it's possible he'll never play again, but I think that exactly nobody can guess a percentage at this point.

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What I said was true. I stand by it.

My friend is an attorney in his mid-forties. He's not a greeter at Walmart.

Have you ever been a member of a country club? Its different. I've been told stories by doctors which shouldn't have been repeated. Judges have discussed case details that , imo, were not public knowledge. Its different in that circle.

Just don't believe it if you want. I'm certainly not gonna "grill" my friend.

Because I don't question his word.

Bad information. This isn't something I would continue to post about. If you do have a buddy that golfs with Irsay and he really is flapping his gums like this, I dare say he won't be golfing with Irsay anymore.

Information like this is worth less than what my pocket lint has to say on Manning's return.

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No prob. If I were in your shoes I would feel the same.

And if you knew me, you'd know I'm the polar opposite of doom and gloom.

I just thought it was interesting that that was the "opinion" of Irsay.

I say that believing my friend did actually golf with him and he did actually hear him say that. I have NO reason to ever imagine he'd be lying and I know he wouldn't loke about it.

I have no problem with your dis-belief but what is with the "then what will you do? Pray for a setback?" Read some of my other posts. I'm in it for the long-haul. With or without Manning. It was the first "concrete" word I heard about his condition. And because I trusted 1 guy, I believe it. It wasn't a guy heard from a guy thing.

I've been here for a long time. I'm not gonna troll or start lies.

It wasn't meant to be doom & Gloom. Just what I thought was some information.

I wondered...Ive seen a lot of your other posts, and this one is not at all like them.

Thought maybe someone got your account! lol!

That other part wasnt directed at you so much as everyone who seems to be feeding off of all the negativity surrounding the situation. Of course thats human nature I guess, to take the bad and roll with it...especially when it presently isnt getting better. Some of us are hanging onto the hope longer than others I guess.

After reading the messages below, it sounds more like you buddy is playing the low end too...meaning he might just be really disappointed in all of this, and thats his take.

In any case, nothing against you or your friend, but I wont believe it.

Now if a month goes by, and all we see is the same with Manning as now, ie being seen wandering around at practice, then maybe we can re-visit it, but I think for a lot of us it will take some serious announcements from the team or major media before we will believe he is done.

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Here is the actual messages he sent me:

1st message:

Good to hear from ya Bro. Yea. Going to be a tough year. And if you have a No. 18 jersey, frame it. You will never see him play again. Good news is we might suck so bad this year we end up in the Andrew Luck Lottery...

Then I saked , WHAT?! done for good?

This is his 2nd message (response):

I was playing in a foursome with Irsay (a buddy knows him) at a golf tournament the day the news broke that Manning was done for the season. Sureal. Irsay is a wierd dude. Anyway, he said there is an 80% chance he never plays again. Any other QB he would give a 95% chance of never playing again, but if anyone will try to come back it will be Peyton.

All that money, two new kids, 35 years old? I bet Archie sits him down and tells him it's time to hang it up. Sucks...

How do you take it? Assuming you, like I, believe him.

Did I miss something? I don't recall the news being broken that Peyton is done for the season. :hmm:

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Agree with previous posts: while it's not impossible that this 3rd-hand info is true, I don't really believe anything that even Irsay thinks at this point. And I think the elite boys-club secrets are pretty much worthless nonsense. Remember, that's how Madoff recruited a bunch of wealthy suckers into his pyramid scheme: people love to believe they are privileged and special to the point that they overlook facts and common sense.

Things may have been over-simpified for Irsay. Based on seeing hundreds of patients following surgeries like these, I'd say that Manning will certainly be allowed to play next year, and given his pride my guess is that he will try unless his arm strength is simply unacceptable. I would guess it's possible he'll never play again, but I think that exactly nobody can guess a percentage at this point.

And therein lies the personal part of Peyton's decision...which nobody, including probably Irsay and certainly not his golf buddies, can know at this point. The Manning inner circle is probably as tight as it gets.

But you are a neurosurgeon, so your assessment of his medical situation and chances of returning is based on what sounds like a ton of experience. I'd be interested to know if, even under a best case scenario...does Peyton carry additional risk going forward? And although I'm sure you'd obviously leave the decision to return to football with Peyton and his family...what would your gut tell you, and what would you advise him to do if you were his doctor?

Because the question of SHOULD he keep playing is a real one.

I just know that if I had an occupation that ramped up my risk of re-injury and long-term quality of life issues, with a wife and two young kids at home...and a hundred mil or so in the bank and a mantle full of trophies, as well as numerous opportunities after football, I'd probably be headed for retirement.

I'm a die hard Colts fan...but the last thing I want to see is Peyton making his Hall of Fame acceptance speech from a wheel chair.

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You guys can believe what you want, but having experienced nerve damage first hand, I am mentally preparing for Manning to retire. If anyone can make a recovery, it's him, but nerves, once damaged can take years to recover or may not recover at all. The Colts would be smart to start planning for the Post-Manning era.

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I live in Indiana, my husband has worked at one of the local hospitals for almost 30 years in surgery (major city in Indiana, not a little town) and before Peytons second surgery, the word among some of the surgeons who had recently been down in Indy was that this could very well be a career ender. I didn't want to believe my husband (thought these were rumors, gossip, etc.), but when the second surgery took place, I started to think "well, maybe there is more to these rumors than I thought". We suspect he had a less invasive surgery in May with hopes that would work, but obviously it didn't. A lot of people have the fusion he recently had, but again, sometimes it can take a very long time for the nerve damage to be reversed, if it can be reversed that is. I do think there is hope, but it just depends on how he heals and if the nerve damage can be reversed. My personal opinion is that our defense has not been up to par, with Peyton, we were still able to outscore the other teams, without him, we can't... our defense needs an overhaul.... no matter what happens with Peyton.

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