Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

unitaswestand

Arian's Offense

Recommended Posts

I know I will probably be hammered with that "we are 9-4", but I really wonder about Arians offense as a long term solution. I know he prefers longer chunks. The probably I see is that so many teams use some version of the Cover-2 defense to prevent passes downfield to give up short passes instead, Luck is often throwing right into where the defensive strength is. I am often surprise at how little short passes there are, other than an occasion WR screen. Also, with a horrid offensive line and Luck having to hold the ball longer, it makes for a gamble on every play. I just wonder if the Colts would be better playing more of the annoying dink and dunk offense like the Patriots, but airing it out from time to time. More like the Colts were when James was at his peak.

It just seems to me a feast or famine offense. Against a smart team like the Patriots, I think it will always be tough for this offense to play them because of the Patriot coverages.

What do you all think? And if Arians left and we had to bring in a new coordinator, would you want to keep the same offense?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I will probably be hammered with that "we are 9-4", but I really wonder about Arians offense as a long term solution. I know he prefers longer chunks. The probably I see is that so many teams use some version of the Cover-2 defense to prevent passes downfield to give up short passes instead, Luck is often throwing right into where the defensive strength is. I am often surprise at how little short passes there are, other than an occasion WR screen. Also, with a horrid offensive line and Luck having to hold the ball longer, it makes for a gamble on every play. I just wonder if the Colts would be better playing more of the annoying dink and dunk offense like the Patriots, but airing it out from time to time. More like the Colts were when James was at his peak.

It just seems to me a feast or famine offense. Against a smart team like the Patriots, I think it will always be tough for this offense to play them because of the Patriot coverages.

What do you all think? And if Arians left and we had to bring in a new coordinator, would you want to keep the same offense?

Quite a few share your viewpoint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we keep the same Offense..... what would be the point of letting Arians go?? I think when he retires.... we get a WCO Coach so Luck can play in a system like how he did at Stanford. Where he'll excel....... when he gets a oline

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know. This isn't the late 60s with Daryl Lamonica being the Mad Bomber. I love balanced teams that methodically move the ball down field. Sure, I love those long plays. But just as the Colts use to do with the the fake handoff on a stretch play, they need to set it up. Now down field on almost every play

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we keep the same Offense..... what would be the point of letting Arians go?? I think when he retires.... we get a WCO Coach so Luck can play in a system like how he did at Stanford. Where he'll excel....... when he gets a oline

I meant if by some miracle Arians get a head coaching job. I doubt it because of his age. But you never know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the dink and dunk and playaction passes. Thats obviously not Arians style. , Heck Brady has 3 Rings with it and 2 more SB appearances. When we eventually bring in a new Coordinator then at the top of my list I want Rick Dennison if he is available

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to the items you mentioned, his offense seems to get the QB hit an awful lot. Big Ben had been getting beat up pretty bad the past few years, and Andrew has taken quite a few shots. Neither has had great OL, but if you know that, adjust and get the ball out quicker with some shorter routes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love a deep shot in a play. You never know when it can result in a cheap touchdown due to a broken coverage. I do not like 3+ 20 yard routes without an outlet/hot route. It's asking for your QB to be hit.

The OL that we currently have would look exponentially better if they were blocking in a WCO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love a deep shot in a play. You never know when it can result in a cheap touchdown due to a broken coverage. I do not like 3+ 20 yard routes without an outlet/hot route. It's asking for your QB to be hit.

The OL that we currently have would look exponentially better if they were blocking in a WCO.

Completely agree. One of the reasons Manning was so seldomly sacked is that the route trees were much shorter so he held the ball a much shorter time.

My favorite era of the Manning Colts was around 2003-2005. You never knew what to expect. You might get a run, short pass, or bomb. They set each other up. I would love to see that returned but even a stronger running game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like Arians offense in this day and age. you have to take your shots with the rules the way they are. Vick Ballard is coming alive in the run game, just because he comes with his heavy package a couple times a game and gets stuffed isn't that harmful, every run play isn't going to be a positive one during a course of a game and simply for the most part the run game has came alive since like te Browns game. So his run plays are effective for the most part.

His passing does have drag routes and backside digs and backs coming into the flat for the short completion, its just that Luck tries to force balls downfield when he does have an outlet. Now if we had a coordinator with that dink and dunk offense in this era i would probably lose my mind with the kind of receivers and tight ends we have we have to take our shots when available, especially how quick the PI flags fly in todays NFL an incomplete deep ball can turn into a quick 40yrd gain that quick. Now what I would like to see is more roll out stuff getting Luck out the pocket where he is most effective on the run. that dink and dunk offense at some point good corners are going to jump those curls, quick slants, and in/out routes because they won't have to worry about the double move as much. I guess its all about your preference, I like Arians offense for the most part, another offseason in this system and with most of the same players and more development of the rookies in this offense should be an even better joy to watch than this year. Hopefully Ijilana is fine to continue to play football next year because Lord knows we need help at the Guard position

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great thread..despite us winning I'm still not a fan of Arians play-calling and how he wants to handcuff Luck to the pocket..you can't put restrictions on a young Qb because it leads to hesitation in decision-making which leads to bad plays occuring..i'm a little dissapointed how Arians has yet tried to make any adjustments to keep the defense honest so Luck doesn't get hit so much..what needs to happen for Arians to realize this? its like the WR bubble screen play is the only short yardage high percentage play he has in his playbook..if he gets offered a HC position in the offseason I wouldn't be mad at all..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A fan's rant on stampede blue:

It's a really hard topic to write about. He had a hand in developing two great QBs in Manning and Rothlesberger. He has helped hold the team together in the wake of Pagano's illness. He is a really likeable guy. That being said, it is not hard to see why he was run out of town in Pittsburgh.

He seems to find a way to self destruct a game as often as he finds a great play to call. His performance in theTitans game was beyond bad today. He continues to telegraph run plays out of the power formation for no gains and losses. He insists on a vertical pass game with no line to protect his QB. He continues to push for below average players to play over those who outplay them (Seth Olson anyone?). His game plan has been a disaster as it has resulted in his QB struggling to complete 50 percentage of his passes and a not so great turnover ratio.

He has to set Luck up to be more successfull. That means running different plays out of the same looks. Don't spread it on pass plays and run out of power formations all the time. Give him so bootlegs, some draws, some short passes to keep the third downs manageable. Luck has really bailed Arians out this year on third down and late in games. Tailor the game plan to what you have to work with. Get the TEs involved more. You spent a 2nd and 3rd pick on two TEs you hardly use.

Arians looks like a failure as an OC when you look at what Seattle, Miami, and Washington have done to help their QBs. If it wasn't for the success the team is having, people would be calling for his head. He needs to be more flexible in what he wants to do and this team would have a lot easier time moving the ball and winning games. I don't want to completely rail on a guy when we are winning, but the more I watch this team the more I think we are winning in spite of him.

http://www.stampedeb...56/bruce-arians

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to see luck rolling out of the pocket. As a designed play for once, and not him running for his life. He is very good on the run, let the guy roll out. The pocket collapsed on him almost every other play, it was ridiculous. You can't play the same exact way for every defense you come up against. I like the play calling, but there's not alot of adjustments for who we are playing. That needs to happen.

Give the guy some dump off passes if you are going to have 4 out of the five receivers run 20 yard routes. Ray Rice has made a career out of 5 yard passes! Between Ballard and Brown, we have the technology! lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just pray that all this success gets him a ticket out of here. This is our best chance to get rid of him after this season. If he doesn't get a HC gig, Irsay and Grigson will probably feel obligated to keep him here because of how he's kept the team together during Pagano's illness.

Then again, loyalty hasn't been this franchises strong suit lately, so maybe they'll take a critical look at his offense and force him to change or get kicked to the curb........ (I can dream, can't I?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love a deep shot in a play. You never know when it can result in a cheap touchdown due to a broken coverage. I do not like 3+ 20 yard routes without an outlet/hot route. It's asking for your QB to be hit.

The OL that we currently have would look exponentially better if they were blocking in a WCO.

I'm on the side that believes the problem is more of an O-line problem than BA, but I can definitely agree with the outlet/hot route. A lot of these plays don't have one, and when your options are essentially two receivers heading downfield for 20 yards, or two others who are 10-15 yards out, it can lead to holding onto the ball too long like Luck does. Letting the RB come out of the backfield or a WR running across the field 5 yards off the LOS would be a good idea. Agreed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arians play-calling has been very suspect which is why we don't really beat down teams when we have the lead. Our team is built for one possession games. No more than that.

I am surprised Arians can't realize that he is eventually going to get Luck injured if they keep this up. We have 2 healthy TEs that are big targets and yet they aren't a part of the passing offense. And when Luck tried to throw to Fleener, he overthrew him, everytime.

We should have more draw run plays because the Titans were playing very aggressive and there were gaping holes in the line.

The positive thing about this is, next year we will have plenty of money to spend on the O-line which is the most important thing to get next year. And Grigson is a former O-lineman so he knows how to look for talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm on the side that believes the problem is more of an O-line problem than BA,

^^That^^

but I can definitely agree with the outlet/hot route. A lot of these plays don't have one

Because they're kept in on protection. We have outs but their first assignment is chip or straight up block...then bleed out into the middle or flat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, this probably requires creditting Arians with an extraordinarily high level of long term thinking...

But I wonder...

Is it possible that the thinking is that the Colts were playing with house money this year anyway, and the deep ball was considered Luck's weakest attribute coming out of college, so why not devote the year to working out kinks in that part of his game? And better still, have him learn to do so under more pressure than he will when the team presumably addresses its OLine issues?

Looked at from that perspective, Luck will be that much further along in his development next year because if it, and the 9-4 record this year becomes an even greater achievement, and a huge bonus...

It is something I thought about months ago, and something I would have wanted to do if I was coach, but it's otherwise just wild speculation on my part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for the first time, im gonna complain about Arians.

I thought he was stupid late in the first half when it was obvius the OL had was in disarray and Luck was getting hammered...and he still called 5 WR routs with no help on the OL.

stubborn.

he did adjust in the 2nd half

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regardless of Arians playcalling, This staff seems to be really good at making the proper halftime adjustments. There are things that drive me a little crazy and I wish he would try to make it easier for Luck to get into a good rhythm at the beginning of the game, but this team seems to really flourish in the 2nd half of games after the adjustments have been made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, this probably requires creditting Arians with an extraordinarily high level of long term thinking...

But I wonder...

Is it possible that the thinking is that the Colts were playing with house money this year anyway, and the deep ball was considered Luck's weakest attribute coming out of college, so why not devote the year to working out kinks in that part of his game? And better still, have him learn to do so under more pressure than he will when the team presumably addresses its OLine issues?

Looked at from that perspective, Luck will be that much further along in his development next year because if it, and the 9-4 record this year becomes an even greater achievement, and a huge bonus...

It is something I thought about months ago, and something I would have wanted to do if I was coach, but it's otherwise just wild speculation on my part.

He's teaching Luck, indeed. I've heard BA mic'd up telling Luck, "You gotta throw that one away, son'. Once, Luck started to respond, but then stopped mid sentence and said" you're right. I need to throw that away."

BA never yells at Luck, but does pull him aside, gives him some wisdom in the situation, pat him on the head and basically says, go get it done next drive. I like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regardless of Arians playcalling, This staff seems to be really good at making the proper halftime adjustments. There are things that drive me a little crazy and I wish he would try to make it easier for Luck to get into a good rhythm at the beginning of the game, but this team seems to really flourish in the 2nd half of games after the adjustments have been made.

True.

Arians did switch to running outside the tackles more and our run game improved. Once that happened, teams came up a little more and it made it easier to throw those 20 yard passes. One thing I did like was Luck taking more crossing routes, a small improvement, if you should call that. You have to do that with a speedster like T.Y.Hilton.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Out of curiosity, who do you think will be starting over Okereke?  I think we'll see a lot of dime/nickel packages which will make him or Walker come out of the game.. but if I had to guess, I'd think the starting LBs this year will be Leonard, Walker and Bobby O (I think he's certainly capable of being an upgrade to Adams or Franklin -- and right now, https://www.colts.com/team/depth-chart#scroll-defense, the depth chart has him listed as our starting SAM).     Rivers has played with Sproles and Ekeler and utilized them both very well... I think Reich said something about Hines having potential to develop into a Sproles-like player when he was first drafted.. I expect Hines and Rivers will form a solid bond and we'll see Hines (and Campbell) as kind of all-purpose guys on this offense.     If he wasn't a pro-athlete and his uncle wasn't a HOFer, nobody would talk about what Kelly did.  Not saying it's right or wrong, but I imagine many posters on this board have gotten drunk and did something stupid or regrettable at least once in their life time.         Not sure how old you are, but I highly doubt you went through the ages of 18-22 without doing something questionable.  You probably weren't a D-1 football player with a HOF Uncle, so nobody probably really cared to judge you on a public forum.   ____________________________________________________   I think we're going to see a lot of breakout players this year.  The thing Reich talks about a lot is that there will be some weeks where guys will play major roles and others where they will be pretty quiet.  Reich and Sirianni seem to be very adaptable with their offense and they stress the fact that we don't have selfish players on the team.  I think we'll see guys like Hines and Campbell play huge roles in some games and in others we'll hardly see them on the field.   Here's my list:   Hines -- not only as an RB/flex type of guy, but as a returner.  He really became impressive late last year as a punt returner.  If he keeps that up, I could see him being a pro-bowler as a return specialist.  I also see Rivers being able to utilize him a lot better than Brissett did on offense.   Campbell -- kid is a freak athlete.  He showed flashes of being able to play a very versatile role in the offense when healthy last year.... he just needs to keep himself on the field instead of in the trainer's office.   Ya-Sin -- he really came on late last year.  With additions of Buckner, development from Banogu and Turay and our LBers, we have (on paper) a better pass rush.  Should make Ya-Sin's life a lot easier.   Tell -- I was mostly impressed by him last year and he made a position change from college.  I think we'll see him on the field a lot more this year, and if I had to guess he'll be covering bigger TEs quite a bit.   Braden Smith -- Big Q gets a lot of media hype and credit (well deserved), but I don't think Smith is too far off from being a pro-bowl caliber OL.  With the addition of Rivers and the rookie RB, I think our whole OL is going to get a lot more credit this year.   TY -- If he stays healthy, I think the improved QB play is really going to benefit him.   Okereke  -- I see him taking a starting role and really improving.  He played very well last year, especially late in the season.  With a better DL in front of him and more experience, I expect him to really blossom.   Walker -- The addition of Buckner should make AW's life a bit easier.. again, Leonard gets a lot of well deserved credit and attention from our LB corps, but Walker quietly had a very solid year last year.   Hooker -- Contract year and an improved pass rush should really help him out.  Also, I expect the development of Ya-Sin and Tell, with a healthy Kenny Moore and the additions of Rhodes and others, Hooker will have more help from his DB unit as a whole.   Willis -- he had a very solid rookie year, I think his athleticism has him near his 'ceiling' early in his career, but again, improved play in front of him should help him out.   EJ Speed -- Ballard says he's as athletic of an LBer that we have, but came from a small school and was raw as a rookie.  I don't know how much time he'll get on D, but I expect him to be on the field more there and also to excel on STs.   Turay -- he was coming on last year... the addition of Buckner drawing attention from OLs should really help our entire DL.  Turay's workout videos look as though he's really putting in work... hopefully he stays healthy. Banogu -- like Turay, the guy is a very solid athlete who was pretty raw coming out of college.  I anticipate he'll make a similar jump in year 2.   Xavier Rhodes -- not sure if I'd call it a breakout year, as he's been an all-pro before.  Even though he was a probowler last year, it was his worst season to date.. I think he'll fit in very well with this D.   Grover Stewart -- He was a project pick and really started to develop last year.  I think having Buckner next to him will really help him step up.   Autry -- Hunt played pretty terrible last year (or at least digressed from his 2018), and I don't think it had positive effects on Autry.. having Buckner and a healthy Turay along with Justin Houston and others should really help him out.   Le'Raven Clark -- I don't know if he'll see the field, but I won't be shocked at all if replaces Glow, or if Smith moves to RG and Clark moves to RT.     Trey Burton -- he's a Reich guy and (if healthy) I think he can be a very good fit on this offense.   Asthon Dulin -- Don't think he'll be on the field much on O, but he was definitely improving last year.  I do, however, think he'll crack our roster and contribute significantly on STs.   Reece Fountain/Pascal -- I think these guys will be in the 4-6 WR roles, but, with improved QB play and with the addition of Pittman and Patmon, and the hopeful healthiness of TY and Pascal, I think when these guys are on the field, they'll have a lot better chance of being put in favorable matchups.  I thought Pascal played well last year, but with JB digressing as the season went on and with him sometimes being utilized as our #1 WR, I don't think he had the best situation.   Marlon Mack -- I don't know that his stats will go up, per se... but I think with the addition of Taylor (both taking workload off Mack and being a different type of back), that when Mack gets his number called, he's going to be very successful.   *I won't be shocked if Fountain and/or Dulin don't make the team, but if they do, I think they'll be all right for us and improved from last year (maybe not 'breakouts', but certainly should be in better positions with improved QB play and supporting cast).
    • Very glad to see how much influence Mathis has had on Turay.  It's always cool to see an ex-Colt great contributing and helping out our young talent.  Seems as though Reggie helps a bit, but I don't recall anyone like Mathis who remained so involved with the horseshoe and helping develop young talent so much.   Also, very cool to hear how appreciative Turay is of Mathis.  He seems like a good dude.
    • Part of what makes a player great over his career is longevity.  The rule of thumb I have always heard for HOF selection is 'a decade of dominance.'  Unless you really change the game, you have to have ~a decade of being an elite player to get in (an exception may be a guy like Megatron, because his combo of size, speed, power, hands, etc. in some ways revolutionized the game of football).   Leonard is certainly off to a good start.. and by a stats comparison, a better start than Lewis.  Lewis was not an all-pro (first or second team) as a rookie.  He was 2nd team in his 2nd and 3rd years, and again in 2010.  He was first team 7 times.   Leonard was a first team all pro as a rookie, which is very rare.  He was 2nd team in year 2, a year in which he missed 3+ games.  Leonard was the defensive rookie of the year (Simeon Rice got that award when Lewis was a rookie).  At the same points in their careers, Leonard has proven to be better at causing turnovers (his INT numbers are outstanding for a LBer)... but, he also plays in a different scheme and a different position (most of the time), so that's hard to really judge.   Lewis was a 2x NFL Defensive Player of the Year.  Leonard has not done that yet.  I don't doubt that he's capable of it, but he hasn't.  Lewis was a 2x Superbowl Champion and a 1x SB MVP, both things which Leonard hasn't accomplished.  Lewis was a 13x pro-bowler.. like Leonard, he missed out his rookie year.  Lewis is also on the 2000's all-decade team as the best at his position during that decade.   In terms of off-field stuff, Leonard seems to have less baggage than Lewis did at a young age.  That said, Lewis did seem to clean up his act after that alleged murder incident.  He also seems to be a pretty solid guy now and has several charities and does a lot for young minority communities.     In terms of on-field leadership, Lewis was outstanding.  I don't know how long that took, as I don't follow Baltimore as intensely as I do Indy (i.e., was he a captain in his second year and a tremendous leader of men as a rookie? I don't know).  Leonard, was named team captain in his 2nd year, and he was a leader right out of the gates.  From all interviews and things I've read, his coaches and teammates view him as the leader of the Indy D and seemingly have after just a few games as a rookie -- that's rare.   In short, Leonard is off to a heckuva start to his career.... but, let's hold off on comparing him to a first-ballot HOFer.  If he keeps it up for another 8-12 years, this thread deserves to be revisited.  
    • I am not calling Barkley a choker because when he went to  Philly they were not the same team that had won the finale in 1983. When he played for Phoenix they were a 50% team. His last 4 years with Houston he only stated 152 games in four years due to injury. He averaged 22.1 pts and 11.7 rebounds in his career. In the playoffs he averaged 23 pts and 12.9 rebounds.  He was the rebound leader in 1987 at 6'5".  He was the MVP in 1993. He also was the team leader for both Gold Medals in the Olympics in 1992 and 1996.  Sorry IMO those are not choker numbers. 
    • I find it very unlikely a team signs Kelly off our practice squad. If we want to run 3 QBs and keep Kelly on the PS we probably can.
  • Members

    • indyblue

      indyblue 10

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • HOZER

      HOZER 4,507

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Thunderbolt

      Thunderbolt 289

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • bravo4460

      bravo4460 1,744

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • UKColt13

      UKColt13 1,433

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • jchandler7

      jchandler7 313

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • ColtsGermany

      ColtsGermany 252

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Fluke_33

      Fluke_33 1,247

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...