Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Greenoughrunner

Luck vs rg3

Recommended Posts

My question is? How many times have Luck and Griffin thrown the ball?

Andrew Luck --- 503 attempts

Robert Griffin --- 325 attempts

Most of Griffin's passes are short on the run dump off passes anyway, so throw out the completion percentage argument. Luck actually has to drop back and read defenses, and not shortcut the whole QB process. Andrew has shown he is mentally tough and physically tough, and very smart. I will take Andrew Luck hands down over ANY small running QB (RG3) ! Just wait until RG3 gets hurt, its just a matter of time ! He's a rib injury waiting to happen.

*sigh* The fact has already been stated that QBs who aren't criticized for this throw around the same, if not more, short passes than Griffin, i.e Brady, Manny, Matty Ice, and others. Not to mention he leads the league in TD passes over 25 yards.

Both QBs have shown mental and physical toughness and intelligence on the field but what "running QB" have you seen as accurate as Griffin. And no, Steve Young doesn't fall into that category because if you knew the 49ers then, you would know that Steve settled into a pocket passer who only ran when truly necessary.

I believe that he will settle more in the pocket as time goes on, but they honestly have the personnel to successfully run that offense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.

Awful comparison considering that's a single instance and has little to no effect on the Colts' playoff chances. It's happened to the Redskins four times.

Oh i see. Tough breaks only count when they happen to the Redskins. Gotcha! What difference does it make if it has an effect on our playoff chances? You couldn't have said that at the time, matter of fact you really can't even say that now. The Colts could still miss the playoffs. Get out of here with your nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh i see. Tough breaks only count when they happen to the Redskins. Gotcha! What difference does it make if it has an effect on our playoff chances? You couldn't have said that at the time, matter of fact you really can't even say that now. The Colts could still miss the playoffs. Get out of here with your nonsense.

This seems to be the Skins fans modus operandi when it comes to anything comparing Luck and RG3. Stats are only accurate when they support RG3, O-line deficiencies only matter when they affect RG3, number of attempts only matter when they don't shed a positive light on RG3. So on and so forth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What tricks? You mean the majority of Mike Shanahan offense of out pistol formation ? Yes they run the option a few times but it is not the whole offense.. Teams have had 13 weeks of tape on it and they are not close to stopping it. In fact teams around the league are actually starting to implement some of the offesne themselves like the 49ers, Seahawks, Bills, Panthers etc.. Even the Giants have put ELI back in the pistol a few times the past few games...

Lets not talk about facts tho, people don't like when that happens.

Nice screen name. You're here for intelligent, civil discussion on a COLTS forum I am sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take away Reggie Wayne and the Colts offense is less effective. Take away Arian Foster or Andre Johnson and the Texans offense is less effective. What you have just said is about as profound and relevant to the quoted post as proclaiming that the sky is blue.

The difference is that their QB isn't being touted as the savior of the known world because of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Redskins already beat the Giants and should have beaten them the first time, too.

And the Colts should have been 4-8. Just could not resist that one! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh i see. Tough breaks only count when they happen to the Redskins. Gotcha! What difference does it make if it has an effect on our playoff chances? You couldn't have said that at the time, matter of fact you really can't even say that now. The Colts could still miss the playoffs. Get out of here with your nonsense.

This seems to be the Skins fans modus operandi when it comes to anything comparing Luck and RG3. Stats are only accurate when they support RG3, O-line deficiencies only matter when they affect RG3, number of attempts only matter when they don't shed a positive light on RG3. So on and so forth.

Actually, in all fairness, I think he was commenting on perception that QB play is the cause of an 6 - 6 record. The 4 instances that he was talking about was legitimate. Well, I give him 2, the Rams game (stupid penalty) and the Giants game (he was super clutch just to have the effort wasted by the defense giving up a long pass and the Moss fumbling). But it is football and things like that just happen but QB play hasn't been the reason they are sitting at .500.

*objectivity police OUT!*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, in all fairness, I think he was commenting on perception that QB play is the cause of an 6 - 6 record. The 4 instances that he was talking about was legitimate. Well, I give him 2, the Rams game (stupid penalty) and the Giants game (he was super clutch just to have the effort wasted by the defense giving up a long pass and the Moss fumbling). But it is football and things like that just happen but QB play hasn't been the reason they are sitting at .500.

*objectivity police OUT!*

If objectivity is the goal, then that has to be a 2 way street. Skins fans are using stats to say that RG3 is the superior QB, but when stats are used by the Colts fans that show that RG3 isn't the 2nd coming to the almighty himself like the media and so many Skins fans want us to believe, well then those stats are skewed or those stats don't tell the whole story. I've said multiple times now that there are variable's that have to be taken into account behind every stat, but the Skins fans only want to consider those variable's that shed a negative light on RG3 and dismiss the variable's behind some of Luck's mistakes this yr.. You can't have it both ways(and I don't necessarily mean just you). The far reaching efforts Skins fans are taking to convince Colts fans that their guy is better is utterly useless. We feel like we got the better guy and you guys feel like you got the better guy. We'll all find out who is right one of these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If objectivity is the goal, then that has to be a 2 way street. Skins fans are using stats to say that RG3 is the superior QB, but when stats are used by the Colts fans that show that RG3 isn't the 2nd coming to the almighty himself like the media and so many Skins fans want us to believe, well then those stats are skewed or those stats don't tell the whole story. I've said multiple times now that there are variable's that have to be taken into account behind every stat, but the Skins fans only want to consider those variable's that shed a negative light on RG3 and dismiss the variable's behind some of Luck's mistakes this yr.. You can't have it both ways(and I don't necessarily mean just you). The far reaching efforts Skins fans are taking to convince Colts fans that their guy is better is utterly useless. We feel like we got the better guy and you guys feel like you got the better guy. We'll all find out who is right one of these days.

But that goes both way. Colts fans and Redskins fans are in fact, doing the same thing. Pre draft, when Luck was considered the second coming of Moses, I bet nobody said a word about it; matter of fact, most probably agrees and was appreciating that he was going to be their draft pick. Now, Griffin is turning out to be the real deal and they are riding the wave of media love.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But that goes both way. Colts fans and Redskins fans are in fact, doing the same thing. Pre draft, when Luck was considered the second coming of Moses, I bet nobody said a word about it; matter of fact, most probably agrees and was appreciating that he was going to be their draft pick. Now, Griffin is turning out to be the real deal and they are riding the wave of media love.

You have to take into consideration where you're posting. This is afterall, a Colts forum. I don't know how or why you would even expect Colts fans to agree that RG3 is the better QB. That just isn't going to happen, no matter how much you try or post links from other media outlets stating RG3's greatness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If objectivity is the goal, then that has to be a 2 way street. Skins fans are using stats to say that RG3 is the superior QB, but when stats are used by the Colts fans that show that RG3 isn't the 2nd coming to the almighty himself like the media and so many Skins fans want us to believe, well then those stats are skewed or those stats don't tell the whole story. I've said multiple times now that there are variable's that have to be taken into account behind every stat, but the Skins fans only want to consider those variable's that shed a negative light on RG3 and dismiss the variable's behind some of Luck's mistakes this yr.. You can't have it both ways(and I don't necessarily mean just you). The far reaching efforts Skins fans are taking to convince Colts fans that their guy is better is utterly useless. We feel like we got the better guy and you guys feel like you got the better guy. We'll all find out who is right one of these days.

I think Redskins fans are just saying that RG3 has the potential to be the best QB in the league and they are pleasantly surprised by his accuracy. There has been no running QB as accurate as RG3. Thus of he continues his efficiency, he will truly be great because he has a higher ceiling then luck.

And so far he is playing great...

Am I right Skins fans?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's true, Skins have had some tough breaks in games, unfortunately you cannot change the record but at the same time not judge a team or one player on a team by their record.

Bill Parcells begs to differ with you-

http://koolkwotes.blogspot.com/2009/09/you-are-what-your-record-says-you-are.html

But most people here just go "EIGHT AND FOUR, BRAH" and then cover their ears.

{Covers ears} :panic: Na Na Na... I can't hear you... :neener:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*sigh* The fact has already been stated that QBs who aren't criticized for this throw around the same, if not more, short passes than Griffin, i.e Brady, Manny, Matty Ice, and others. Not to mention he leads the league in TD passes over 25 yards.

Both QBs have shown mental and physical toughness and intelligence on the field but what "running QB" have you seen as accurate as Griffin. And no, Steve Young doesn't fall into that category because if you knew the 49ers then, you would know that Steve settled into a pocket passer who only ran when truly necessary.

I believe that he will settle more in the pocket as time goes on, but they honestly have the personnel to successfully run that offense.

While I don't buy the short pass and reduced number of attempts in whole, it does play a part. Likewise, Luck's number are comparable to many other very good QB's. Check Brees, Cutler, and A. Daltons numbers (as just a couple) if you don't believe. Brees, above all, should know better, right? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to take into consideration where you're posting. This is afterall, a Colts forum. I don't know how or why you would even expect Colts fans to agree that RG3 is the better QB. That just isn't going to happen, no matter how much you try or post links from other media outlets stating RG3's greatness.

I understand where I am and I understand homerism run thick (with some) but when you (not you personally but the general "you") have to tear the compared player down to build yours up, then it runs into pure bias. I don't think no one is telling you to choose between the 2 but this is how the argument goes.

Colts fans -"All he does is dink and dunk and it is a gimmick offense. He doesn't make the reads that Luck does." overlooking the fact that he is one of the most accurate QBs in the league from the 11 - 20 yard mark, leads the league in TDs over 20+ yards, and the WCO with the option wrinkle is being ran so efficiently, that it leads to the first or second read being open.

Redskins fans - "All he does is throw inaccurate balls that leads to interceptions. He has one of the worst completion percentages and leads the league in turnovers." not taking into account that Arians offense seldomly lends the QB a check down receiver, so he usually has to force a throw. Also, because the plays take so long to develop, he is usually pressured into making the bad throws. He also is among the league leaders in passing yards and come from behind victories.

Both sides fall to the same snare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I don't buy the short pass and reduced number of attempts in whole, it does play a part. Likewise, Luck's number are comparable to many other very good QB's. Check Brees, Cutler, and A. Daltons numbers (as just a couple) if you don't believe. Brees, above all, should know better, right? ;)

Actually, it has been noted that there are quarterbacks that throw around the same percentage of short passes as Griffin, but hey, that stuff is only for people who like facts...lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The difference is that their QB isn't being touted as the savior of the known world because of them.

Last I checked, there's still a pretty even divide amongst the media between people who think Griffin is better and people who think Luck is better. Both, in fact, have even been touted as league MVP candidates.

Actually, it has been noted that there are quarterbacks that throw around the same percentage of short passes as Griffin, but hey, that stuff is only for people who like facts...lol

Brees was among them, incidentally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, it has been noted that there are quarterbacks that throw around the same percentage of short passes as Griffin, but hey, that stuff is only for people who like facts...lol

Let me clarify, I don't believe that (all of) the QB's that do short throws have less interceptions than other QB's in whole because of that reason (short throws). I believe it is only a very small part of the equation. Better?

Any pass of any length can be picked if DB sees and knows what is coming and times/makes/jumps the route correctly. It takes proper reads and decisions of where / when to go with the ball that determine that. Or mistakes on timing patterns by WR's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me clarify, I don't believe that (all of) the QB's that do short throws have less interceptions than other QB's in whole because of that reason (short throws). I believe it is only a very small part of the equation. Better?

Any pass of any length can be picked if DB sees and knows what is coming and times/makes/jumps the route correctly. It takes proper reads and decisions of where / when to go with the ball that determine that. Or mistakes on timing patterns by WR's.

OK...gotcha! :thmup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I just wanted to stop by briefly and say as of today, Tuesday, December 11, 2012, RG3 is currently the Top Rated QB in the league. He has a 104.2 rating, tied with Tom Brady.

He has been pretty consistent this year. The 'Skins opponents have been tough, especially lately but he has somehow managed to keep his rating very high.

This is not a message to slight Luck in any fashion but just to show how RG3 has elevated his play, in comparison to the other QBs in the league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do

Ok, I just wanted to stop by briefly and say as of today, Tuesday, December 11, 2012, RG3 is currently the Top Rated QB in the league. He has a 104.2 rating, tied with Tom Brady.

He has been pretty consistent this year. The 'Skins opponents have been tough, especially lately but he has somehow managed to keep his rating very high.

This is not a message to slight Luck in any fashion but just to show how RG3 has elevated his play, in comparison to the other QBs in the league.

Why is this thread being kept open? Wasn't the Manning vs Luck thread closed down due to QB comparisons?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I just wanted to stop by briefly and say as of today, Tuesday, December 11, 2012, RG3 is currently the Top Rated QB in the league. He has a 104.2 rating, tied with Tom Brady.

He has been pretty consistent this year. The 'Skins opponents have been tough, especially lately but he has somehow managed to keep his rating very high.

This is not a message to slight Luck in any fashion but just to show how RG3 has elevated his play, in comparison to the other QBs in the league.

Yes, I am sure your post was in no way a shot at Luck. And thanks for bringing this thread back up to the top. I think everyone was itching to debate Luck vs. RG3 some more since we haven't gotten enough of it at this point. The biggest RG3 news right now is that he is injured, which I might be worried about if I were you.

Colts fans are concerned about winning and the playoffs right now. I think we have "agreed to disagree" quite a long time ago on this topic. Stats are nice, but only tell half the story. The horse is dead until one of them wins a Superbowl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@IndyBarb, the moderator closed the Manning vs Luck thread because of this:

Anyhow, I don't see this thread going anywhere good and think that we should at least wait until Luck has played in more than 12 games compared to Manning's 14 seasons to make any comparisons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I am sure your post was in no way a shot at Luck. And thanks for bringing this thread back up to the top. I think everyone was itching to debate Luck vs. RG3 some more since we haven't gotten enough of it at this point. The biggest RG3 news right now is that he is injured, which I might be worried about if I were you.

Colts fans are concerned about winning and the playoffs right now. I think we have "agreed to disagree" quite a long time ago on this topic. Stats are nice, but only tell half the story. The horse is dead until one of them wins a Superbowl.

I agree with you in that there is worry with RG3's injury. I think he needs @ least 1 week off but according to his father, RG3 is well, his knee is fine and he will play. If I were the Redskins, I would rest RG3 and play Cousins. No need to risk further injury than what it's worth but I got a sneaking feeling that RG3 will twist the organization's arm and be allowed to play on Sunday.

If he does, we will all be holding our collective breaths and praying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@IndyBarb, the moderator closed the Manning vs Luck thread because of this:

No, they closed the thread because "Manning" was in the thread title.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I just wanted to stop by briefly and say as of today, Tuesday, December 11, 2012, RG3 is currently the Top Rated QB in the league. He has a 104.2 rating, tied with Tom Brady.

He has been pretty consistent this year. The 'Skins opponents have been tough, especially lately but he has somehow managed to keep his rating very high.

This is not a message to slight Luck in any fashion but just to show how RG3 has elevated his play, in comparison to the other QBs in the league.

It's a passer rating. I'd prefer my toast with wins upon it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a passer rating. I'd prefer my toast with wins upon it.

I can see what you are saying and understand your point. Also note that in addition to pure passer rating, he also has an outstanding QBR rating.

Wins are everything and the Redskins have won 4 in a row, against very tough opposition (Cowboys, Eagles, Giants and Ravens) and they did this after the bye week when RG3 ripped into the players. They made him offensive team captain and since then, they have all rallied behind him.

Momentum is on the Redskins side and barring further injuries and if they play mistake-free football, for the most part, I see them winning at least 2 out of the 3 remaining games to get @ least a wild card spot or even division title.

It's that close.

Bottom line, get into the playoffs and then the real season starts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Hidden by 21isSuperman, December 11, 2012 - inappropriate
Hidden by 21isSuperman, December 11, 2012 - inappropriate

I understand where I am and I understand homerism run thick (with some) but when you (not you personally but the general "you") have to tear the compared player down to build yours up, then it runs into pure bias. I don't think no one is telling you to choose between the 2 but this is how the argument goes.

Colts fans -"All he does is dink and dunk and it is a gimmick offense. He doesn't make the reads that Luck does." overlooking the fact that he is one of the most accurate QBs in the league from the 11 - 20 yard mark, leads the league in TDs over 20+ yards, and the WCO with the option wrinkle is being ran so efficiently, that it leads to the first or second read being open.

Redskins fans - "All he does is throw inaccurate balls that leads to interceptions. He has one of the worst completion percentages and leads the league in turnovers." not taking into account that Arians offense seldomly lends the QB a check down receiver, so he usually has to force a throw. Also, because the plays take so long to develop, he is usually pressured into making the bad throws. He also is among the league leaders in passing yards and come from behind victories.

Both sides fall to the same snare.

lWPdJ.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

If rg3 plays this week he gets it. The national media loves this guy. Sooner or later he won't be able to last a full season, similar to Vick. Really I don't care about ROY. In 5 yrs I'd like to know that Luck is the better qb. I see luck being able to read defenses much better than rg3. But I'm also a colts fan and haven't seen much of rg3. Just an opinion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
*sigh* The fact has already been stated that QBs who aren't criticized for this throw around the same, if not more, short passes than Griffin, i.e Brady, Manny, Matty Ice, and others. Not to mention he leads the league in TD passes over 25 yards.

Both QBs have shown mental and physical toughness and intelligence on the field but what "running QB" have you seen as accurate as Griffin. And no, Steve Young doesn't fall into that category because if you knew the 49ers then, you would know that Steve settled into a pocket passer who only ran when truly necessary.

I believe that he will settle more in the pocket as time goes on, but they honestly have the personnel to successfully run that offense.

Sounds like someone would rather have RG3, than Luck !!! I don't want a little running QB, I'm super satisified with Luck. I could give two $h!t$ what RG3 does !!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sounds like someone would rather have RG3, than Luck !!! I don't want a little running QB, I'm super satisified with Luck. I could give two $h!t$ what RG3 does !!!!

You are the plague.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I had us 9-7 just based on guessing/hoping/predicting Luck would be healthy and play great. I was right but a lucky guess, I guess  . I thought that would get us a 6th seed. We won 10 games which got us in.
    • For the first time in a while, I am impressed with the Colts development of players. If this current trend continues, a lot of opinions will change. 
    • I had us going 10-6 and winning the AFC South. I knew with Luck back we'd be at minimum .500, and I thought by adding Nelson, Ebron, and Cain, our O would be pretty decent, and enough to take the South. We were 10-6, but didn't win the South.  I wasn't counting on our D being as good, so I guess they overachieved. Honestly I'm still not sold on our D. This year will be a much bigger test.
    • There appears to be a possibility that the Pacers acquire 31-year-old Eric Gordon, the shooting guard for the Rockets.   Houston wants Jimmy Butler but they don't have cap space to sign him. The 76ers would have to sign Jimmy and trade him to Houston. But Houston cant send the 76ers matching salaries because Philadelphia already has to sign Tobias Harris, JJ Reddick and soon Embid and Ben Simmons..   So the 76ers and Houston have to find a third team who could acquire some salary. In the theory of this trade: That team would be the Pacers who would take the final year of Eric Gordon's contract at $15 mil   Obviously, Gordon is an IU grad and Indianapolis native. He comes off the Houston bench behind Chris Paul and James Harden. 16.2 per game last year and 16.7 for his 11-year career..   Forgetting how crazy Houston's locker room would be with Paul, Harden and Butler, is there a downside to acquiring Gordon, who would start until Oladipo returns? We might have to give up next year's No.1 pick.
    • Here is a serious question, does anyone want to win the NL Central? I mean seriously  . We are winning it but just give games away like the Brewers and Cards do as well.
  • Members

    • Arby0359

      Arby0359 12

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • jmac_48

      jmac_48 400

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Jdubu

      Jdubu 865

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • tweezy32

      tweezy32 368

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • KB

      KB 382

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • dodsworth

      dodsworth 933

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Kyle

      Kyle 897

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • brently76

      brently76 17

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • mds

      mds 33

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • wig

      wig 884

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...