Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

We're 5-3 with $38 Million in Dead Cap Space


Recommended Posts

I get the point of the OP. We are a bit handicapped this season because of the way we terminated some contracts. We're allocating nearly $40 million of our $120 million cap space to players that are no longer on the team.

But the idea of "dead cap space" is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Or, I guess I should say, the idea that we're the only team with dead cap space is off base. Every team has dead cap space. The way contracts affect team payrolls means that there is necessarily a "dead cap hit" for a great deal of players on every roster. Dwight Freeney is the best example of this on our roster: his cap hit includes a prorated $5 million bonus that was actually part of a $30 million bonus that was paid several seasons ago. That's a dead cap hit. (Some would say his $14 million base salary for 2012 is a dead cap hit as well, but that's another discussion entirely.)

On our current roster, we don't have very many players that have large prorated bonuses hitting our cap this season. The biggest reason why that's the case is because our five best/most productive players this season are either lower paid players or just signed/re-signed this offseason, or both. For instance, Wayne and Mathis (both in that top five) just signed contracts that will average $6 million/year and $9 million/year, respectively. Their bonuses and first year salary are $8.5 million and $17 million, respectively. But their cap hits for 2012 are $3.5 million and $5.75 million, lower than both the yearly average and the 2012 total cash outlay. Same thing for Luck, Redding, Satele, and the other players we drafted and/or signed this past offseason. We're getting more bang for our buck on a significant portion of our roster, especially among key players.

The only players that are actually on the roster and taking up significantly more cap space than cash space are Freeney (plus $5 million), Vinatieri (plus $1.2 million), and Bethea (plus $1 million). Add to that the $38 million in "dead cap space" for players that aren't on the roster anymore, and we're at about $45 million.

Just as a spot comparison, I picked a team that is generally considered a well-run team, one that doesn't do a lot of flashy free agent signing, but is also up against the cap: the Steelers. They have about $10 million in "dead cap space" for players not on the roster. But they're prorating about $17.5 million in bonuses for Roethlisberger and six other players currently on their roster. So they actually have about $27.5 million in "dead cap space." The Giants have about $3 million "dead cap space," but they have about $24 million in prorated bonuses for 12 players. These are not comprehensive comparisons, just a quick look at the top guys whose 2012 cap hits included prorated bonus money.

Anyways, my point is just that "dead cap space" is not unique to the 2012 Colts. Having $38 million allocated to players no longer on the roster is an anomaly, but we're making up for some of that with contracts for guys we just signed/re-signed. And it's good that we're getting so much contribution from young, cheap players. It is a handicap, and it makes it somewhat difficult to field a competitive team. Of course, we've overcome it, sitting at 5-3, when most people didn't expect us to win five games all season.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the point of the OP. We are a bit handicapped this season because of the way we terminated some contracts. We're allocating nearly $40 million of our $120 million cap space to players that are no longer on the team.

But the idea of "dead cap space" is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Or, I guess I should say, the idea that we're the only team with dead cap space is off base. Every team has dead cap space. The way contracts affect team payrolls means that there is necessarily a "dead cap hit" for a great deal of players on every roster. Dwight Freeney is the best example of this on our roster: his cap hit includes a prorated $5 million bonus that was actually part of a $30 million bonus that was paid several seasons ago. That's a dead cap hit. (Some would say his $14 million base salary for 2012 is a dead cap hit as well, but that's another discussion entirely.)

On our current roster, we don't have very many players that have large prorated bonuses hitting our cap this season. The biggest reason why that's the case is because our five best/most productive players this season are either lower paid players or just signed/re-signed this offseason, or both. For instance, Wayne and Mathis (both in that top five) just signed contracts that will average $6 million/year and $9 million/year, respectively. Their bonuses and first year salary are $8.5 million and $17 million, respectively. But their cap hits for 2012 are $3.5 million and $5.75 million, lower than both the yearly average and the 2012 total cash outlay. Same thing for Luck, Redding, Satele, and the other players we drafted and/or signed this past offseason. We're getting more bang for our buck on a significant portion of our roster, especially among key players.

The only players that are actually on the roster and taking up significantly more cap space than cash space are Freeney (plus $5 million), Vinatieri (plus $1.2 million), and Bethea (plus $1 million). Add to that the $38 million in "dead cap space" for players that aren't on the roster anymore, and we're at about $45 million.

Just as a spot comparison, I picked a team that is generally considered a well-run team, one that doesn't do a lot of flashy free agent signing, but is also up against the cap: the Steelers. They have about $10 million in "dead cap space" for players not on the roster. But they're prorating about $17.5 million in bonuses for Roethlisberger and six other players currently on their roster. So they actually have about $27.5 million in "dead cap space." The Giants have about $3 million "dead cap space," but they have about $24 million in prorated bonuses for 12 players. These are not comprehensive comparisons, just a quick look at the top guys whose 2012 cap hits included prorated bonus money.

Anyways, my point is just that "dead cap space" is not unique to the 2012 Colts. Having $38 million allocated to players no longer on the roster is an anomaly, but we're making up for some of that with contracts for guys we just signed/re-signed. And it's good that we're getting so much contribution from young, cheap players. It is a handicap, and it makes it somewhat difficult to field a competitive team. Of course, we've overcome it, sitting at 5-3, when most people didn't expect us to win five games all season.

Great post... ... Thank you bro...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Any thoughts on potential free agents, from other teams, who may be interested in joining the Colts for the Andrew Luck era? One would think any offensive player (linemen, backs or receivers) would consider playing with Luck a great chance to increase their odds of winning the big one someday.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the point of the OP. We are a bit handicapped this season because of the way we terminated some contracts. We're allocating nearly $40 million of our $120 million cap space to players that are no longer on the team.

But the idea of "dead cap space" is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Or, I guess I should say, the idea that we're the only team with dead cap space is off base. Every team has dead cap space. The way contracts affect team payrolls means that there is necessarily a "dead cap hit" for a great deal of players on every roster. Dwight Freeney is the best example of this on our roster: his cap hit includes a prorated $5 million bonus that was actually part of a $30 million bonus that was paid several seasons ago. That's a dead cap hit. (Some would say his $14 million base salary for 2012 is a dead cap hit as well, but that's another discussion entirely.)

On our current roster, we don't have very many players that have large prorated bonuses hitting our cap this season. The biggest reason why that's the case is because our five best/most productive players this season are either lower paid players or just signed/re-signed this offseason, or both. For instance, Wayne and Mathis (both in that top five) just signed contracts that will average $6 million/year and $9 million/year, respectively. Their bonuses and first year salary are $8.5 million and $17 million, respectively. But their cap hits for 2012 are $3.5 million and $5.75 million, lower than both the yearly average and the 2012 total cash outlay. Same thing for Luck, Redding, Satele, and the other players we drafted and/or signed this past offseason. We're getting more bang for our buck on a significant portion of our roster, especially among key players.

The only players that are actually on the roster and taking up significantly more cap space than cash space are Freeney (plus $5 million), Vinatieri (plus $1.2 million), and Bethea (plus $1 million). Add to that the $38 million in "dead cap space" for players that aren't on the roster anymore, and we're at about $45 million.

Just as a spot comparison, I picked a team that is generally considered a well-run team, one that doesn't do a lot of flashy free agent signing, but is also up against the cap: the Steelers. They have about $10 million in "dead cap space" for players not on the roster. But they're prorating about $17.5 million in bonuses for Roethlisberger and six other players currently on their roster. So they actually have about $27.5 million in "dead cap space." The Giants have about $3 million "dead cap space," but they have about $24 million in prorated bonuses for 12 players. These are not comprehensive comparisons, just a quick look at the top guys whose 2012 cap hits included prorated bonus money.

Anyways, my point is just that "dead cap space" is not unique to the 2012 Colts. Having $38 million allocated to players no longer on the roster is an anomaly, but we're making up for some of that with contracts for guys we just signed/re-signed. And it's good that we're getting so much contribution from young, cheap players. It is a handicap, and it makes it somewhat difficult to field a competitive team. Of course, we've overcome it, sitting at 5-3, when most people didn't expect us to win five games all season.

Another thing to consider is the carry-over effect. The Jags/Eagles have about 20 million on space in 2012, that they should easily be able to carry 15-18 million into next year. If the Eagles ditch Vick, they open another 15 for 2013, so a lot of depends on what each team has allocated into the 2013 cap.

So it's not a guarantee that the Colts will have the most money to spend.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because you have money to spend, it does not mean that you will spend it wisely and well. Just ask the Redskins. :)

We are yet to have an offseason for Grigson with money to spend, so hopefully he does us proud.

The dead cap space, more than anything else, does help us retain the talent that we MUST retain, like Freeman etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the point of the OP. We are a bit handicapped this season because of the way we terminated some contracts. We're allocating nearly $40 million of our $120 million cap space to players that are no longer on the team.

But the idea of "dead cap space" is a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Or, I guess I should say, the idea that we're the only team with dead cap space is off base. Every team has dead cap space. The way contracts affect team payrolls means that there is necessarily a "dead cap hit" for a great deal of players on every roster. Dwight Freeney is the best example of this on our roster: his cap hit includes a prorated $5 million bonus that was actually part of a $30 million bonus that was paid several seasons ago. That's a dead cap hit. (Some would say his $14 million base salary for 2012 is a dead cap hit as well, but that's another discussion entirely.)

On our current roster, we don't have very many players that have large prorated bonuses hitting our cap this season. The biggest reason why that's the case is because our five best/most productive players this season are either lower paid players or just signed/re-signed this offseason, or both. For instance, Wayne and Mathis (both in that top five) just signed contracts that will average $6 million/year and $9 million/year, respectively. Their bonuses and first year salary are $8.5 million and $17 million, respectively. But their cap hits for 2012 are $3.5 million and $5.75 million, lower than both the yearly average and the 2012 total cash outlay. Same thing for Luck, Redding, Satele, and the other players we drafted and/or signed this past offseason. We're getting more bang for our buck on a significant portion of our roster, especially among key players.

The only players that are actually on the roster and taking up significantly more cap space than cash space are Freeney (plus $5 million), Vinatieri (plus $1.2 million), and Bethea (plus $1 million). Add to that the $38 million in "dead cap space" for players that aren't on the roster anymore, and we're at about $45 million.

Just as a spot comparison, I picked a team that is generally considered a well-run team, one that doesn't do a lot of flashy free agent signing, but is also up against the cap: the Steelers. They have about $10 million in "dead cap space" for players not on the roster. But they're prorating about $17.5 million in bonuses for Roethlisberger and six other players currently on their roster. So they actually have about $27.5 million in "dead cap space." The Giants have about $3 million "dead cap space," but they have about $24 million in prorated bonuses for 12 players. These are not comprehensive comparisons, just a quick look at the top guys whose 2012 cap hits included prorated bonus money.

Anyways, my point is just that "dead cap space" is not unique to the 2012 Colts. Having $38 million allocated to players no longer on the roster is an anomaly, but we're making up for some of that with contracts for guys we just signed/re-signed. And it's good that we're getting so much contribution from young, cheap players. It is a handicap, and it makes it somewhat difficult to field a competitive team. Of course, we've overcome it, sitting at 5-3, when most people didn't expect us to win five games all season.

I don't believe you are correct if you are saying that pro rated bounus are counted as "dead cap space." Maybe that's not what you're trying to say but I'm willing to say I'm pretty sure that Freeney's signing bonus signed 5-6 years ago has nothing to do with dead cap space. If Freeney wedre released then the part of his 30 million $ signing bounus that was not already pro rated would be dead cap space. For instance a player signs a 5 year deal and gets a 20 mill $ signing bounus. He is cut after 3 years. The team would take a 8million $ cap hit for the two years that were left on his contract 20 ÷ 5 X 2 + 8. In this case Freeney is in his last year of his contract and that pror ated 5 million is added to his base salary giving him a cap hit of around 19 million. Maybe you are not saying it is dead money , but it appears to read that way. Otherwords players that are still on the team never are counted as part of dead cap space.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What 5-3 or better team is saddled with more dead cap than us?

No team -- regardless of record -- is carrying more dead cap money than the Colts.

That's bad. But, here's the good.

Our 'dead cap space' issues last a grand total of one season.

For instance, the Titans once had 3 straight years of dead cap money. They were in Dead Cap Money Heck. Those years the teams struggled badly and it led directly to Jeff Fisher leaving. Dead cap space issues effect all teams. Some worse than others. But, at least ours will be done after one year.

Next year, as far as money goes, it's 'Fat City' for the Colts.

Now, we just have to hope that there's good talent to buy in the 2013 Free Agency class, as well as good players in the 2013 draft of college players. And, as we sit here today, I'm not overly confident of either....

But that's another thread for another day.....

Today, as you noted, we're 5-3. I sure didn't see that coming.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe you are correct if you are saying that pro rated bounus are counted as "dead cap space." Maybe that's not what you're trying to say but I'm willing to say I'm pretty sure that Freeney's signing bonus signed 5-6 years ago has nothing to do with dead cap space. If Freeney wedre released then the part of his 30 million $ signing bounus that was not already pro rated would be dead cap space. For instance a player signs a 5 year deal and gets a 20 mill $ signing bounus. He is cut after 3 years. The team would take a 8million $ cap hit for the two years that were left on his contract 20 ÷ 5 X 2 + 8. In this case Freeney is in his last year of his contract and that pror ated 5 million is added to his base salary giving him a cap hit of around 19 million. Maybe you are not saying it is dead money , but it appears to read that way. Otherwords players that are still on the team never are counted as part of dead cap space.

All of what you're saying is true. However, technically speaking, any prorated bonus is "dead cap space," whether the player is still on the team or not. This is the case because that money is increasing your payroll figure above the actual money being paid.

To your point, at least the prorated bonus money for a player still on the roster is helping you on the field. In theory, at least.

But the point is that every team has cap issues due to prorated bonuses. And when you look at certain factors with our 2012 cap, you recognize that the team is actually making up for a lot of the dead cap hits with the structure of the new contracts, most of which are for our very best players.

Link to post
Share on other sites

All of what you're saying is true. However, technically speaking, any prorated bonus is "dead cap space," whether the player is still on the team or not. This is the case because that money is increasing your payroll figure above the actual money being paid.

To your point, at least the prorated bonus money for a player still on the roster is helping you on the field. In theory, at least.

But the point is that every team has cap issues due to prorated bonuses. And when you look at certain factors with our 2012 cap, you recognize that the team is actually making up for a lot of the dead cap hits with the structure of the new contracts, most of which are for our very best players.

Fact is this. Most good teams have many players with large contracts that are eating up their cap space. Some cases pro rated bonuses , some cases base salaries. The Colts have dumped all their dead space into 2012 and have none going forward. We have one player with a large contract going forward. That is Mathis and it's only for 3 years and it's less than 10 mill per year. Beathea's is one of the larger one and we already paid for most of that one with a large 2010 roster bounus. Luck will cost about 5.5 mill for the next 3 years. No one else is going to get big money , unless you consider Wayne at around 6 mill big. This means we have tons of money to spend in the next couple of years.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the interesting part. Yes we will have money to spend but is there really any talent that'll be out there that's really worth signing? I have a feeling we might be better off to draft and wait another year to really dive in.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the interesting part. Yes we will have money to spend but is there really any talent that'll be out there that's really worth signing? I have a feeling we might be better off to draft and wait another year to really dive in.

You always over pay but that's pat of the game I guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fact is this. Most good teams have many players with large contracts that are eating up their cap space. Some cases pro rated bonuses , some cases base salaries. The Colts have dumped all their dead space into 2012 and have none going forward. We have one player with a large contract going forward. That is Mathis and it's only for 3 years and it's less than 10 mill per year. Beathea's is one of the larger one and we already paid for most of that one with a large 2010 roster bounus. Luck will cost about 5.5 mill for the next 3 years. No one else is going to get big money , unless you consider Wayne at around 6 mill big. This means we have tons of money to spend in the next couple of years.

Yup. I'm just saying that prorated bonuses are a part of the process of managing a cap. They are usually between $25-30 million in any given year, especially when you have good players making a lot of money. Our number is abnormally high this season, but it's not the end of the world.

And yes, we will be able to make some offers in free agency.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the interesting part. Yes we will have money to spend but is there really any talent that'll be out there that's really worth signing? I have a feeling we might be better off to draft and wait another year to really dive in.

there are a lot of players that could help the colts. maybe not a lot of espn headline types, but those seem to turn out for the worse anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because you have money to spend, it does not mean that you will spend it wisely and well. Just ask the Redskins. :)

We are yet to have an offseason for Grigson with money to spend, so hopefully he does us proud.

The dead cap space, more than anything else, does help us retain the talent that we MUST retain, like Freeman etc.

he came out and said he doesn't believe in spending money just to spend it...so hopefull he spends wisely. lotta good potential FA in 2014 too

Link to post
Share on other sites

Henry Melton, Mike Wallace, Sebastian Vollmer, Kraig Urbik, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Bradley Fletcher

Also get a quality starter with that 32nd overall pick in the draft next year. ;)

You.. I like you.

I'd LOVE to get Mike Wallace. Imagine Luck with Wayne, Wallace, Avery, Hilton, Fleener, Brazill, and Allen?? I don't think there will be enough passing to go around. When Wayne hangs em up, I hope one of the receivers I mentioned will become a route-running sure-handed receiver. JMO, Brazill looked alot like Wayne on that 3-toe tap on the sideline late in the game.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You.. I like you.

I'd LOVE to get Mike Wallace. Imagine Luck with Wayne, Wallace, Avery, Hilton, Fleener, Brazill, and Allen?? I don't think there will be enough passing to go around. When Wayne hangs em up, I hope one of the receivers I mentioned will become a route-running sure-handed receiver. JMO, Brazill looked alot like Wayne on that 3-toe tap on the sideline late in the game.

That just gave me a half chub.....I go full chub thinking about Melton beating up opponents interior line and DRC playing some strong, press coverage. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll gladly pass on Mike Wallace...we don't need that contract. If we're gonna throw down some serious cash we gotta go after Jake Long or Jairus Byrd. This team needs major upgrades on defense and o-line to be a legitimate contender.

I like the potential of our two rookie wrs, and Wayne has a couple more years in the tank as our no.1.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Available Cap $$$ Always goes first to retaining your own players. And they will expect Market Value. Our guys were on TV a lot and got a lot of attention.

Tho Dallas Clark could pass catch, he only had 3 above average seasons. And he couldn`t block at all. I believe his big contract made him the highest paid TE.

Addai made one Pro Bowl. They name them early and he had most of his yardage by the 10th week of the season. He always showed promise but was best as a pass blocker for $tat$, then as a dump off receiver, then as a runner.

Brackett became pretty decent on what was typically bad defenses. He got his $5M+ contract - Only out of respect for good service.

Freeney is still here because pass rush is so important and they needed some Box Office stars around, especially after the big SHOCK.

We will still build thru the draft, you have to.

Grigsons draft looks rock solid to me, much thanks to drafting at the FRONT of each round.

For next season we must add a couple studs on defense as we build the Monster.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's been pretty well established that teams tend to pay over market for the good free agent players.

those are just the ones you remember. nobody remembers deals like the saints got with darren sproles or the fair contract johnathon joseph got and has earned every penny.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll gladly pass on Mike Wallace...we don't need that contract. If we're gonna throw down some serious cash we gotta go after Jake Long or Jairus Byrd. This team needs major upgrades on defense and o-line to be a legitimate contender.

I like the potential of our two rookie wrs, and Wayne has a couple more years in the tank as our no.1.

would love jarius byrd....goldson of the 49ers will also be a FA

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • 1.       Trevor Lawrence      Clemson              QB          6'6"        220 2.       Penei Sewell              Oregon OT          6'5"        330 3.       Ja'Marr Chase            LSU        WR         6'1"        200 4.       Zach Wilson                BYU        QB          6'3''        210 5.       Justin Fields Ohio State           QB          6'3''        228 6.       Patrick Surtain II       Alabama              CB           6'1"        203 7.       Jaylen Waddle           Alabama              WRS       5'10"      182 8.       Caleb Farley               Virginia Tech      CB           6'2"        197 9.       Kyle Pitts      Florida  TE           6'5"        239 10.   Micah Parsons           Penn State          ILB          6'2"        245 11.   DeVonta Smith          Alabama              WR         6'1"        175 12.   Trey Lance  North Dakota State         QB          6'3"        226 13.   Jaycee Horn                South Carolina   CB           6'0"        200 14.   Rashawn Slater         Northwestern   OT          6'4''        314 15.   Wyatt Davis Ohio State           OG         6'4"        315 16.   Gregory Rousseau   Miami (FL)           EDGE     6'5"        260 17.   Trevon Moehrig        TCU        S              6'2"        202 18.   Christian Darrisaw    Virginia Tech      OT          6'5''        314 19.   Christian Barmore    Alabama              DL3T      6'5"        310 20.   Rondale Moore         Purdue WRS       5'9"        175 21.   Kwity Paye  Michigan              EDGE     6'4"        277 22.   Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah Notre Dame       OLB        6'1''        216 23.   Asante Samuel Jr.     Florida State       CB           5'10"      180 24.   Samuel Cosmi            Texas    OT          6'7"        309 25.   Rashod Bateman      Minnesota          WR         6'1"        210 26.   Travis Etienne            Clemson              RB           5'10"      210 27.   Mac Jones   Alabama              QB          6'2''        214 28.   Daviyon Nixon           Iowa      DL3T      6'3"        305 29.   Richie Grant               UCF        S              6'0"        194 30.   Azeez Ojulari              Georgia EDGE     6'3"        240 31.   Nick Bolton Missouri               ILB          6'0"        235 32.   Alijah Vera-Tucker   USC        OG         6'4"        315 33.   Najee Harris               Alabama              RB           6'2"        230 34.   Kyle Trask    Florida  QB          6'4''        240 35.   Terrace Marshall      LSU        WR         6'3"        200 36.   Zaven Collins              Tulsa      OLB        6'4''        260 37.   Joseph Ossai              Texas    EDGE     6'4"        253 38.   Alex Leatherwood   Alabama              OT          6'6"        312 39.   Trey Smith  Tennessee          OG         6'6"        330 40.   Creed Humphrey     Oklahoma           OC          6'5"        320 41.   Tyson Campbell        Georgia CB           6'2"        180 42.   Jay Tufele    USC        DL3T      6'2"        310 43.   Andre Cisco Syracuse              S              6'0"        203 44.   Jalen Mayfield           Michigan              OT          6'5"        320 45.   Marvin Wilson           Florida State       DL1T      6'3"        319 46.   Dylan Moses              Alabama              OLB        6'3"        235 47.   Pat Freiermuth         Penn State          TE           6'5"        250 48.   Jayson Oweh             Penn State          EDGE     6'5"        257 49.   Greg Newsome II     Northwestern   CB           6'1"        190 50.   Tylan Wallace             Oklahoma State WR         6'0"        185 51.   Carlos Basham Jr.     Wake Forest       DL5T      6'5"        285 52.   Jabril Cox     LSU        OLB        6'2"        233 53.   Tyler Shelvin              LSU        DL1T      6'3"        346 54.   Kadarius Toney         Florida  WR         5'11''      190 55.   Elijah Molden            Washington        CB           5'10"      186 56.   Elijah Moore              Ole Miss               WRS       5'9"        184 57.   Ben Cleveland           Georgia OG         6'6"        335 58.   Jevon Holland            Oregon S              6'1"        196 59.   Landon Dickerson    Alabama              OC          6'6''        325 60.   Jaylen Twyman         Pitt         DL5T      6'2"        290 61.   Shakur Brown            Michigan State  CB           5'11"      190 62.   Alim McNeill               North Carolina State       DL3T      6'2"        320 63.   Hamsah Nasirildeen Florida State       S              6'4"        215 64.   Jaelan Phillips             Miami (FL)           EDGE     6'5"        255 65.   Shaun Wade               Ohio State           CB           6'1"        194 66.   Kenneth Gainwell    Memphis             RB           5'11"      191 67.   Patrick Jones II          Pitt         EDGE     6'5"        260 68.   Amon-Ra St. Brown USC        WR         6'1"        195 69.   Cameron McGrone Michigan              OLB        6'1''        232 70.   Darius Stills West Virginia      DL5T      6'1"        285 71.   Jackson Carman        Clemson              OT          6'5"        335 72.   Joe Tryon     Washington        EDGE     6'5"        262 73.   Ifeatu Melifonwu     Syracuse              CB           6'3"        212 74.   Talanoa Hufanga      USC        S              6'1"        215 75.   Chazz Surratt              North Carolina   OLB        6'3"        230 76.   Josh Myers Ohio State           OC          6'5''        312 77.   Liam Eichenberg       Notre Dame       OT          6'6"        302 78.   Trey Sermon              Ohio State           RB           6'0"        224 79.   Javonte Williams       North Carolina   RB           5'10"      220 80.   Marlon Williams        UCF        WR         6'0"        215 81.   Michael Carter          North Carolina   RBC        5'9"        195 82.   Paris Ford    Pittsburgh           S              6'0"        190 83.   Levi Onwuzurike      Washington        DL3T      6'3"        293 84.   Dillon Radunz            North Dakota State         OT          6'6''        299 85.   Brevin Jordan            Miami (FL)           TE           6'3"        245 86.   Deonte Brown           Alabama              OG         6'4''        350 87.   Walker Little               Stanford              OT          6'7"        313 88.   Hamilcar Rashed      Oregon State     EDGE     6'3''        248 89.   Chuba Hubbard         Oklahoma State RB           6'1"        207 90.   D'Wayne Eskridge    W Michigan        WRS       5'9"        188 91.   Quincy Roche            Miami (FL)           EDGE     6'4"        235 92.   Anthony Schwartz   Auburn WR         6'0"        197 93.   Jamie Newman         Georgia QB          6'4"        230 94.   Jaelon Darden           North Texas        WRS       5'9"        174 95.   Dyami Brown             North Carolina   WR         6'1"        185 96.   Teven Jenkins            Oklahoma State OT          6'6''        320 97.   Seth Williams             Auburn WR         6'2"        224 98.   Tutu Atwell Louisville              WRS       5'9"        156 99.   Baron Browning        Ohio State           ILB          6'3"        248 100.           Ronnie Perkins  Oklahoma           OLB        6'4'         230 101.           Dazz Newsome North Carolina   WR         5'11"      175 102.           Paulson Adebo  Stanford              CB           6'1"        190 103.           Richard LeCounte III        Georgia S              5'11"      190 104.           Damonte Coxie Memphis             WR         6'3''        197 105.           Aaron Robinson UCF        CB           5'11''      193 106.           Jaret Patterson Buffalo RB           5'9"        195 107.           Drake Jackson    Kentucky             OC          6'2''        292 108.           Sage Surratt        Wake Forest       WR         6'2"        215 109.           Dayo Odeyingbo              Vanderbilt           DL5T      6'5''        279 110.           Israel Mukuamu               South Carolina   CB           6'3"        205 111.           Hunter Long       Boston College  TE           6'5"        253 112.           Kenny Yeboah   Ole Miss               TE           6'4''        240 113.           Marlon Tuipulotu             USC        DL3T      6'1"        308 114.           Divine Deablo    Virginia Tech      S              6'3''        226 115.           Khalil Herbert    Virginia Tech      RBC        5'9"        205 116.           Rashad Weaver Pitt         EDGE     6'5"        270 117.           Eric Stokes          Georgia CB           6'1"        185 118.           Ar'Darius Washington    TCU        S              5'8"        175 119.           Aaron Banks       Notre Dame       OG         6'5"        330 120.           Pete Werner      Ohio State           ILB          6'3''        239 121.           Chris Rumph II   Duke     EDGE     6'3"        225 122.           Tony Poljan        Virginia TE           6'7"        265 123.           Trey Hill                Georgia OC          6'4"        330 124.           Cary Angeline    North Carolina State       TE           6'7"        250 125.           Ihmir Smith-Marsette    Iowa      WR         6'2"        175 126.           Kylin Hill               Mississippi State               RB           5'11"      215 127.           Charles Snowden             Virginia OLB        6'6"        232 128.           Caden Sterns     Texas    S              6'0"        210 129.           Rodarius Williams             Oklahoma State CB           6'0"        193 130.           Quinn Meinerz  UW-Whitewater              OC          6'3"        320 131.           Keith Taylor        Washington        CB           6'3"        191 132.           Elijah Mitchell    Louisiana             RB           5'11"      221 133.           Tedarrell Slaton Florida  DL1T      6'5"        358 134.           Pooka Williams  Kansas  RBC        5'10"      170 135.           Olaijah Griffin    USC        CB           6'0''        170 136.           Torrance Marable            Coastal Carolina                RBC        5'10"      200 137.           Damon Hazelton              Missouri               WR         6'2"        215 138.           Tariq Thompson               San Diego State S              6'0"        200 139.           Ta'Quon Graham              Texas    DL3T      6'4"        294 140.           K.J. Britt                Auburn ILB          6'0"        236 141.           Monty Rice         Georgia OLB        6'1"        235 142.           Kylen Granson   SMU      TE           6'2''        235 143.           Kellen Mond      Texas A&M         QB          6'3"        217 144.           Paddy Fisher      Northwestern   ILB          6'4"        246 145.           Amari Rodgers  Clemson              WR         5'9"        210 146.           Jamien Sherwood            Auburn S              6'2''        220 147.           Max Duffy           Kentucky             P             6'1"        185 148.           Spencer K. Brown             Northern Iowa  OT          6'9''        321 149.           Nico Collins         Michigan              WR         6'4"        222 150.           Tommy Togiai    Ohio State           DL3T      6'2"        300 151.           JaCoby Stevens LSU        S              6'1''        228 152.           Jordan Smith      UAB       EDGE     6'7"        255 153.           Tyler Vaughns   USC        WR         6'2"        190 154.           Jack Anderson   Texas Tech          OG         6'5"        315 155.           Bobby Brown III Texas A&M         DL1T      6'3"        325 156.           Darren Hall          San Diego State CB           6'0"        190 157.           Donovan Stiner Florida  S              6'1"        203 158.           Wyatt Hubert    Kansas State       EDGE     6'3"        270 159.           Thomas Graham Jr.         Oregon CB           5'10"      193 160.           Shemar Jean-Charles      Appalachian State            CB           5'11"      190 161.           Malik Herring     Georgia DL5T      6'3"        283 162.           Daelin Hayes      Notre Dame       EDGE     6'4"        268 163.           Tommy Kraemer              Notre Dame       OG         6'6"        317 164.           Marco Wilson    Florida  CB           6'0"        190 165.           Trill Williams       Syracuse              CB           6'2'         198 166.           Shaka Toney       Penn State          EDGE     6'3"        243 167.           Jimmy Morrissey              Pitt         OC          6'3"        305 168.           Sam Ehlinger      Texas    QB          6'3"        225 169.           Sadarius Hutcherson      South Carolina   OG         6'4"        320 170.           D.J. Daniel           Georgia CB           6'0''        183 171.           Camryn Bynum Cal          CB           6'0''        198 172.           Jermar Jefferson              Oregon State     RBC        5'9"        215 173.           Jose Borregales Miami (FL)           PK           5'10"      205 174.           Alaric Jackson    Iowa      OT          6'6"        315 175.           Brennan Eagles Texas    WR         6'2"        225 176.           Tommy Doyle    Miami (OH)         OT          6'8''        326 177.           Jonathan Marshall           Arkansas              DL1T      6'3"        317 178.           Shane Buechele SMU      QB          6'1"        207 179.           Joshua Kaindoh Florida State       EDGE     6'7"        261 180.           James Hudson   Cincinnati            OT          6'5"        310 181.           Benjamin St-Juste            Minnesota          CB           6'3"        200 182.           Demetric Felton                UCLA     RBC        5'9"        189 183.           Victor Dimukeje Duke     EDGE     6'2"        265 184.           Xavier Kelly         Arkansas              DL3T      6'4"        305 185.           Kary Vincent Jr. LSU        CB           5'10"      182 186.           Noah Gray           Duke     TE           6'4"        240 187.           Adrian Ealy          Oklahoma           OT          6'6"        327 188.           Michal Menet   Penn State          OC          6'4''        305 189.           Pressley Harvin III            Georgia Tech      P             6'0"        255 190.           Amen Ogbongbemiga    Oklahoma State OLB        6'1"        231 191.           T.J. Vasher          Texas Tech          WR         6'6"        210 192.           Josh Imatorbhebhe         Illinois   WR         6'2"        215 193.           Matt Bushman  BYU        TE           6'5"        245 194.           Stevie Scott        Indiana RB           6'2"        231 195.           Brady Christensen           BYU        OT          6'6''        300 196.           Quintin Morris   Bowling Green  TE           6'4"        248 197.           Riley Patterson Memphis             PK           6'0"        190 198.           Malcolm Koonce              Buffalo EDGE     6'3"        250 199.           Robert Rochell   Central Arkansas              CB           6'0''        195 200.           Ben Mason         Michigan              FB           6'3"        254
    • It's kind of like comparing what I did in the bathroom to what you did in the bathroom, but Collins played worse than Painter in 2011, on the same team, with the same staff. I didn't say Painter played better, because that word doesn't seem appropriate here. But I thought Collins was clearly worse, and a bad fit for our offense at the time.   It was always weird to bring Collins in as the starter the way they did. I get signing him. Making him the starter wasn't a good idea. Of course, the alternative was Curtis Painter, so it probably wouldn't have mattered.
    • Round 4 97.   Jacksonville (1-15) - Javonte Williams, RB, North Carolina 98.   NY Jets (2-14) - Chubba Hubbard, RB, Oklahoma State 99.   Atlanta (4-12) - Paris Ford, S, Pittsburgh 100.  New Orleans from Houston (4-12) - Dyami Brown, WR, North Carolina 101.  Cleveland - from Philadelphia (4-11-1) - Hamilcar Rashed, EDGE, Oregon 102.  Cincinnati (4-11-1) - Tutu Atwell, WR, Louisville 103.  Detroit (5-11) 104.  New Orleans from Houston from Carolina (5-11) 105.  Denver (5-11) 106.  Dallas (6-10) 107.  NY Giants (6-10) 108.  San Francisco (6-10) 109.  LA Chargers (7-9) 110.  Minnesota (7-9) 111.  LA Chargers from New England (7-9) 112.  Las Vegas from Miami - from Las Vegas (8-8) 113.  Eagles from Carolina from Houston - from Arizona (8-8) 114.  Miami (10-6) 115.  WFT* (7-9) 116.  Minnesota - from Chicago* (8-8) 117.  Tennessee* (11-5) 118.  Las Vegas from Indianapolis* (11-5) 119.  Pittsburgh* (12-4) 120.  Seattle* (12-4) 121.  Jacksonville - from LA Rams* (10-6) 122.  Baltimore* (11-5) 123.  Chicago from Cleveland* (11-5) 124.  New Orleans* (12-4) 125.  Minnesota - from Buffalo* (13-3) 126.  Green Bay* (13-3) 127.  Kansas City* (14-2) 128.  Tampa Bay* (11-5)     Arizona -> Houston: De'Andre Hopkins Buffalo -> Minnesota: Stefon Diggs Chicago -> Minnesota: 2020 picks LA Rams -> Jacksonville: Jalen Ramsey Philadelphia -> Cleveland: Genard Avery Las Vegas -> Miami: Raekwon McMillan Miami -> Las Vegas: Lynn Bowden Jr. Carolina -> Houston: Tua trade Houston -> Carolina: Tua trade Carolina -> Eagles: Zach Ertz trade Indianapolis -> Las Vegas: Carr trade New England -> LA Chargers: Patrick Surtain Cleveland -> Chicago: Jarvis Landry trade Houston -> New Orleans: Lattimore trade
    • Since the Manning era started...I think so. At least his stats as a starting QB for the Colts would seem to indicate that. But overall, Painter and Tolzien were worse QBs.    
  • Members

×
×
  • Create New...