the luck to fleener combination hasn't been as good as I thought.

[Stephen]

I figured those two would be more on the same page since they played together in college but in the jets game luck threw the ball about five feet above his head. There is noway he would have caught that.

[The Fish]

I think Grigson might have reached on the Fleener pick, considering how well Allen has done, comparatively.

Still to be seen.

[coltsfanatic24]

fleener hasn't been involved in the passing game as much because he's left back to block most of the time.

[krunk]

Everything they did together was under the West Coast system they ran at Stanford. They are no longer under that system, plus they are playing against pro level defenses that are more talented and more complicated that what they saw in college. They are both trying to get in sync with the professional experience. You can not expect them to be totally in sync when you put those things into account. Luck and Fleener both have to get a feel for what they can and can not do in the pro game before they start killing it. I see strides from both of them being made in every game, so I know it won't be long before it happens. I like Fleener so far if you want my opinion.

[PrincetonTiger]

Everything they did together was under the West Coast system they ran at Stanford. They are no longer under that system, plus they are playing against pro level defenses that are more talented and more complicated that what they saw in college. They are both trying to get in sync with the professional experience. You can not expect them to be totally in sync when you put those things into account. Luck and Fleener both have to get a feel for what they can and can not do in the pro game before they start killing it. I see strides from both of them being made in every game, so I know it won't be long before it happens. I like Fleener so far if you want my opinion.

ditto

[Jim88]

I think people expect a little to much out of these guys.

We see Gronk, Hernandez, Davis and Graham doing some ridiculous things and expect our guys to do the same.

We have two rookies that are still adjusting. We also have been using them as blockers a lot do to the sub-par line play.

I'm sure both guys will excel with time.

[Mouthfire]

fleener hasn't been involved in the passing game as much because he's left back to block most of the time.

Actually, Fleener's been targeted 31 times so far. In one extra game (because of the Colts bye week), Gronkowski's had 37 targets, so I think Fleener's probably gotten an average amount of looks. He just hasn't produced as consistently (Fleener 17 receptions vs Gronk's 29 receptions).

To be fair, though, Coby's been looking better the past two games. For comparison, Antonio Gates has 34 targets, 19 receptions, and 2 TDs (versus Fleener's 31 targets, 17 receptions, 0 TDs). So probably below average, but not too bad.

[PMan Escape Plan]

the over throw from luck to fleener against NYJ was killer. coby was WIDE open. set the tone for the game.

but i like what i see from fleener so far (considering)

[lollygagger8]

It'll get progressively better. Luck plays at such a high level that we expect a little too much out of him and forget that he's a rookie.

[BleedingBlue]

I was going to post something regarding this but didn't want to be a "debbie downer". Since its been posted I'll chime in.

As Mouthfire has pointed out Fleener has been targeted a fair enough amount of times, and has fewer receptions than Gronk. I've seen him miss read where the ball will be and drop some he should have caught. Yes, hes been blocking but the whole thing makes you think what was the motiviation behind drafting him? I mean, did they make a deal with Luck? Because they drafted a far more Clutch Allen right after.

I should add that posing for GQ and the attention received from it has probably been a distraction.

I would much rather have Courtney Upshaw or Cordy Glen right now, thats for darn sure.

[oldunclemark]

I figured those two would be more on the same page since they played together in college but in the jets game luck threw the ball about five feet above his head. There is noway he would have caught that.

17 catches, 181 yards...not bad....That's 50 catches in his rookie year and he's got a 10-catch guy (Reggie) on the side.

Rookies start slow.....

Check back after 10 games

[Boiler_Colt]

Here we go again, Fleener has better stats than Allen at this point minus the Touchdowns and outperformed him against the Jets where he caught everything catchable thrown at him. So he hasn't had a 100 yard 3 TD game big deal, Luck seems to like throwing that Reggie Wayne guy's direction.

[oldunclemark]

17 catches, 181 yards...not bad....That's 50 catches in his rookie year and he's got a 10-catch guy (Reggie) on the side.

Rookies start slow.....

Check back after 10 games

I meant that Coby has a certain '100-catch' ( Reggie has 41 catches in 5 games) on the outside

Avery's caught 21 and Allen's caught a dozen

Luck spreads the ball around well........everybody's getting touches

[Everyone]

If you want to compare Fleener to the other tightends in the league, I don't think one of them was a star in their rookie year. Just because they had a history together in college doesn't mean it automatically transfers to the NFL, there is still a learning curve that must be taken into consideration.

[Flash7]

If we stop comparing Fleener to Gronk, Hernandez, and Graham, then we'd realize that Fleener has actually been doing pretty well. It's unreasonable to compare him as a rookie to arguably the best tight ends in the league right now.

[krunk]

I was going to post something regarding this but didn't want to be a "debbie downer". Since its been posted I'll chime in.

As Mouthfire has pointed out Fleener has been targeted a fair enough amount of times, and has fewer receptions than Gronk. I've seen him miss read where the ball will be and drop some he should have caught. Yes, hes been blocking but the whole thing makes you think what was the motiviation behind drafting him? I mean, did they make a deal with Luck? Because they drafted a far more Clutch Allen right after.

I should add that posing for GQ and the attention received from it has probably been a distraction.

I would much rather have Courtney Upshaw or Cordy Glen right now, thats for darn sure.

Upshaw has not been anything special. The Ravens have not had any punch along the D-line this year against the pass or the run. They are so needy right now, they are even entertaining the idea of letting Terrell Suggs play. That says a lot to me, because they are quietly saying a man who is coming off a recent torn ACL will be much more effective than the rookie they drafted at this point.

Upshaw currently has 25 tackles and 0.5 sacks.

Jerrell Freeman who was not even drafted has 49 tackles, 1 sack, and 1 interception

I would say Fleener has been more of an asset for his team so far.

Hard to gauge what Glenn has done because he's an offensive lineman.

I understand what you are saying though. We all had our opinions on who we wanted when the draft came around.

Personally I pretty much knew the Colts would select Fleener if they had the chance to. People keep trying to put

Gronkowski into some kind of comparison with Fleener, but I think he should be compared with other rookie tight

ends. I can't think of any that are doing that much better than him.

[chadreece2001]

Fleener is playing fine. I think Allen looks better right now, but I think Fleener will be an Elite tight end in Four Years.

[GoColts8818]

They are rookies five games into their careers we have to stay patient with them which I know is hard in today's have everything you want at your finger tips world.

[BleedingBlue]

Allen is a rookie too, and he looks better. Don't place too much importance on stats, they can often deceive you.

[TonyBungee]

So a rookie QB throwing to a rookie TE haven't been as effective as Tom Brady to Gronk?

[Esquire59]

I guess you missed the veteran play Fleener made on the 44yd pass interference call he was awarded, the 3 first downs, and separation he got against a good Jets defense. He'll be a star TE in this league by year three.

[throwing BBZ]

Odd and inaccurate posts here.

Luck has been missing EVERYBODY. Circus catches by Reggie are saving him from LOTS of jibberish Bust talk.

Clearly Fleener is doing just fine under the circumstances.

Lucks lack of accuracy is a HUGE Disappointment.

NOT at all the player we were sold in that regard. Grade him a D on accuracy.

He has missed MANY short easy passes with NO excuse. Throws behind all the time or over their heads. It is UGLY!!

[Superman]

So a rookie QB throwing to a rookie TE haven't been as effective as Tom Brady to Gronk?

Exactly. I wonder what the expectations were to begin with.

[Flash7]

Allen is a rookie too, and he looks better. Don't place too much importance on stats, they can often deceive you.

I would rather look at the picture as Fleener & Allen rather than Fleener vs Allen. After all, they are both on the same team.

[BleedingBlue]

Odd and inaccurate posts here.

Luck has been missing EVERYBODY. Circus catches by Reggie are saving him from LOTS of jibberish Bust talk.

Clearly Fleener is doing just fine under the circumstances.

Lucks lack of accuracy is a HUGE Disappointment.

NOT at all the player we were sold in that regard. Grade him a D on accuracy.

He has missed MANY short easy passes with NO excuse. Throws behind all the time or over their heads. It is UGLY!!

wow, and i thought I was bearish on our picks. Luck, however has been throwing with 350 lb guys hanging off his back arm. cut him a little slack.

Exactly. I wonder what the expectations were to begin with.

I think expectations were a bit high when he was drafted in teh second round. I'm certain he would have been there in teh third round. Many of us felt there was a greater need elsewhere than TE to draft 2nd....

I would rather look at the picture as Fleener & Allen rather than Fleener vs Allen. After all, they are both on the same team.

...only to draft another TE right after named Allen. (thus the comparision)

[Superman]

wow, and i thought I was bearish on our picks. Luck, however has been throwing with 350 lb guys hanging off his back arm. cut him a little slack.

I think expectations were a bit high when he was drafted in teh second round. I'm certain he would have been there in teh third round. Many of us felt there was a greater need elsewhere than TE to draft 2nd....

...only to draft another TE right after named Allen. (thus the comparision)

This strikes me as revisionist. Not only did plenty of people want Fleener in the second round, but we had only Brody Eldridge on the roster at the time. We had needs all over the place, but tight end was one of the biggest.

[TKnight24]

I'm really not understanding how you guys are comparing a ROOKIE to Gronkowski & Jimmy Graham. Does Superman (The Mod) have to tell you guys about Jimmy Graham's Rookie Year again? Fleener is not Bad.

And for those of you who would've wanted Upshaw, someone PLEASE tell me what has he done? I have YET to hear his Name on ANY Highlights, Talk Shows, NFL.com, Etc. He's pretty much a Ghost right now

[funktacious2]

Fleener just needs to continue to work on his pass-catching... weird I know, considering that's what most of us assumed we drafted him for.

[Indyfan4life]

Odd and inaccurate posts here.

Luck has been missing EVERYBODY. Circus catches by Reggie are saving him from LOTS of jibberish Bust talk.

Clearly Fleener is doing just fine under the circumstances.

Lucks lack of accuracy is a HUGE Disappointment.

NOT at all the player we were sold in that regard. Grade him a D on accuracy.

He has missed MANY short easy passes with NO excuse. Throws behind all the time or over their heads. It is UGLY!!

Go root for someone else then.

[Mouthfire]

Here we go again, Fleener has better stats than Allen at this point minus the Touchdowns and outperformed him against the Jets where he caught everything catchable thrown at him. So he hasn't had a 100 yard 3 TD game big deal, Luck seems to like throwing that Reggie Wayne guy's direction.

I will leave a quick note on this. Fleener has slightly better overall yards and receptions, but he was thrown to more than twice as much as Allen. See stats below:

_________________________________________________

Fleener: Targeted 25, Receptions 13, YPC 10.7, TD 0 -- Fleener % received: 52%

Allen: Targeted 12, Receptions 10, YPC 7.6, TD 2 -- Allen % received: 83%

____________________________________________

And it really does matter. If you threw the ball to slovenly, un-athletic me about 1000 times, I could probably catch about 13 of them for 150 yards (optimistically speaking, anyways). One of them might even go for a TD. The point, though, would be that those passes would be better served going to someone who produced more consistently.

Not that I don't think Fleener will end up being okay in the long term, but if you showed me those two stat lines, I'd pick Allen any day of the week.

[Boiler_Colt]

I will leave a quick note on this. Fleener has slightly better overall yards and receptions, but he was thrown to more than twice as much as Allen. See stats below:

_________________________________________________

Fleener: Targeted 25, Receptions 13, YPC 10.7, TD 0 -- Fleener % received: 52%

Allen: Targeted 12, Receptions 10, YPC 7.6, TD 2 -- Allen % received: 83%

____________________________________________

And it really does matter. If you threw the ball to slovenly, un-athletic me about 1000 times, I could probably catch about 13 of them for 150 yards (optimistically speaking, anyways). One of them might even go for a TD. The point, though, would be that those passes would be better served going to someone who produced more consistently.

Not that I don't think Fleener will end up being okay in the long term, but if you showed me those two stat lines, I'd pick Allen any day of the week.

It also counts as a target if you sailed one a mile over someone's head. Not the best measure. We have both Fleener and Allen I don't understand why people constantly feel the need to compare.

[YOUR GM]

Upshaw has not been anything special. The Ravens have not had any punch along the D-line this year against the pass or the run. They are so needy right now, they are even entertaining the idea of letting Terrell Suggs play. That says a lot to me, because they are quietly saying a man who is coming off a recent torn ACL will be much more effective than the rookie they drafted at this point.

Upshaw currently has 25 tackles and 0.5 sacks.

Jerrell Freeman who was not even drafted has 49 tackles, 1 sack, and 1 interception

I would say Fleener has been more of an asset for his team so far.

Hard to gauge what Glenn has done because he's an offensive lineman.

I understand what you are saying though. We all had our opinions on who we wanted when the draft came around.

Personally I pretty much knew the Colts would select Fleener if they had the chance to. People keep trying to put

Gronkowski into some kind of comparison with Fleener, but I think he should be compared with other rookie tight

ends. I can't think of any that are doing that much better than him.

Fleener will never be Gronk. He lacks the physicality. I think his ceiling is 100 catch Dallas Clark. That's still more than admirable but I don't see him catching jump balls or delivering punishing hits on his way to the endzone on a consistent basis, ever.

[oldunclemark]

Odd and inaccurate posts here.

Luck has been missing EVERYBODY. Circus catches by Reggie are saving him from LOTS of jibberish Bust talk.

Clearly Fleener is doing just fine under the circumstances.

Lucks lack of accuracy is a HUGE Disappointment.

NOT at all the player we were sold in that regard. Grade him a D on accuracy.

He has missed MANY short easy passes with NO excuse. Throws behind all the time or over their heads. It is UGLY!!

When he's been under pressure, he's missed some...

..but as a rookie....he's been pretty accurate

Reggie isnt catching passe Luck 'missed him' on....Luck's getting the ball there..

There's been some drops, too....and we've been behind in most games....

Remember....all rookie QBs struggle...and he's played 5 games including GB and the Bears.

Its unrealistic to think a rookie will be great immediately at QB. None are

[krunk]

Fleener will never be Gronk. He lacks the physicality. I think his ceiling is 100 catch Dallas Clark. That's still more than admirable but I don't see him catching jump balls or delivering punishing hits on his way to the endzone on a consistent basis, ever.

I see him being a good tight end definitely. I don't see him being Gronk either.

[oldunclemark]

It also counts as a target if you sailed one a mile over someone's head. Not the best measure. We have both Fleener and Allen I don't understand why people constantly feel the need to compare.

I think they compliment each other very well as do Reggie and Donie Avery\

...I think we're really going to like this set of receivers as we get into the bulk of the season...

But I'm surprised folks dont seem to understand about how rookies have to adjust to the NFL

[Hans Moleman]

When he's been under pressure, he's missed some...

..but as a rookie....he's been pretty accurate

Reggie isnt catching passe Luck 'missed him' on....Luck's getting the ball there..

There's been some drops, too....and we've been behind in most games....

Remember....all rookie QBs struggle...and he's played 5 games including GB and the Bears.

Its unrealistic to think a rookie will be great immediately at QB. None are

As tough as it is to be good as a rookie QB, really good rookie TE's are harder to find. Finding rookie TE's who are primarily pass catchers to contribute from day is even more rare. TE is one of the hardest positions to make an immediate impact at.

Fleener's already halfway to the rookie yardage totals of guys like Graham and Gonzalez's rookie totals, believe it or not. Most great NFL TE's didn't crack 400 yards receiving their rookie seasons.

[Coltswarriors]

Fleener has improved throughout the season. Hope it keeps up!

[Mouthfire]

It also counts as a target if you sailed one a mile over someone's head. Not the best measure. We have both Fleener and Allen I don't understand why people constantly feel the need to compare.

I don't disagree with you. But at the same time, I'd be hesitant to say that Fleener was outperforming Allen based on the given body of work, especially since it seems that Allen catches practically everything thrown at him and produces touchdowns.

[YOUR GM]

As tough as it is to be good as a rookie QB, really good rookie TE's are harder to find. Finding rookie TE's who are primarily pass catchers to contribute from day is even more rare. TE is one of the hardest positions to make an immediate impact at.

Fleener's already halfway to the rookie yardage totals of guys like Graham and Gonzalez's rookie totals, believe it or not. Most great NFL TE's didn't crack 400 yards receiving their rookie seasons.

To be fair, those guys weren't getting as many looks as the primary TE in their rookie seasons. Graham came on after Shockey got hurt and Gonzalez never even started his rookie year. Fleener already has as many starts as both of them combined in their rookie seasons

[gspdx]

I don't disagree with you. But at the same time, I'd be hesitant to say that Fleener was outperforming Allen based on the given body of work, especially since it seems that Allen catches practically everything thrown at him and produces touchdowns.

With this limited body of work I wouldn't say either is outperforming the other. Like I've said in other threads we have a rookie QB throwing to 2 rookie TEs. I'm glad we have all 3.