Denver (+ 1.5) @ San Diego - Monday night

[southwest1]

If Manning wasn't on that team they'd be 0-6.

If you removed a number of franchise QB's from the starting lineup jobs a lot of teams would be 0-6. Except for Matt Cassel, I think the Chiefs winning percentage would actually rise. There is always the 1 exception that defies the rule. Right. :clap: Just Kidding!!! Or am I? Hmmm...

[Andy]

Annnnd, who questioned Peyton Manning?

The man still has it and he proved it tonight. Biggest comeback of his career and it's with the Broncos, not Colts.

[Poster X]

Annnnd, who questioned Peyton Manning?

The man still has it and he proved it tonight. Biggest comeback of his career and it's with the Broncos, not Colts.

That MNF game against the Buccaneers back in 03 was awesome though... We were down by 21 points with 5 minutes, or so to go in the 4th quarter. Still this one was a big when for Denver as far as the division goes.

[Andy]

That MNF game against the Buccaneers back in 03 was awesome though... We were down by 21 points with 5 minutes, or so to go in the 4th quarter. Still this one was a big when for Denver as far as the division goes.

Actually it was 4 minutes. I point that out because it just makes it more impressive!!

Although tonight was great, it doesn't come nera the 21 point comeback against the Bucs in 03. it was in TB against the best D in the league, and they were SB champs. The Chargers won't win a SB for a while.

[Poster X]

Actually it was 4 minutes. I point that out because it just makes it more impressive!!

Although tonight was great, it doesn't come nera the 21 point comeback against the Bucs in 03. it was in TB against the best D in the league, and they were SB champs. The Chargers won't win a SB for a while.

I'll never forget watching that game with my dad. I was sitting on the edge of my seat the whole 4th quarter... and when Vanderjagt missed that field goal my heart sunk only to see a penalty called for leaping. Good stuff...

The poor Chargers on the other hand have had some good teams in the past, but just can't seem to get over the hump (whatever that is).

[southwest1]

Annnnd, who questioned Peyton Manning?

The man still has it and he proved it tonight. Biggest comeback of his career and it's with the Broncos, not Colts.

Yes, with #18. The game never over until the game clock says 00:00. John Elway & Owner Pat Bowlen of the Denver Broncos look like prophets now & everyone is all smiles now in Mile High.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMWkw9eYU2Y&feature=share&list=PL255308CECBF6E6A5

[southwest1]

I'll never forget watching that game with my dad. I was sitting on the edge of my seat the whole 4th quarter... and when Vanderjagt missed that field goal my heart sunk only to see a penalty called for leaping. Good stuff...

The poor Chargers on the other hand have had some good teams in the past, but just can't seem to get over the hump (whatever that is).

In fairness to Philip Rivers, NFL "experts" used to say the same thing about Peyton Manning until he climbed the Championship Mountain in 2006 and planted the Blue Horseshoe Union Jack at the top plateau. But, I will acknowledge that Rivers's window is beginning to close. It's still ajar, but the clock is ticking....Tick, Tock, Tick...Look at Eli Manning with 2 rings, Big Ben with 2 rings, Peyton Manning with 4 MVP's and 1 ring. Philip Rivers: 0 in the NFL hardware or sparkling jewelry department.

[oldunclemark]

If you read this thread from start to finish...it is so funny....

Thanks everybody!!!

But especially,,.thanks Peyton (and you, too Phillip)

[teganslaw]

Peyton probably remembered the playoff games lost to the Chargers when he was a Colt. Figured that it wasn't to happen to him again. Take that Chargers! Payback time.

I can tell that he's still got it.

[hawkeyes]

In fairness to Philip Rivers ....

Fairness tells us that he has tossed 37 TD with 29 INT and 12 fumbles the last two seasons ...

[oldunclemark]

Fairness tells us that he has tossed 37 TD with 29 INT and 12 fumbles the last two seasons ...

taking a closer look at those numbers, hawkeye...you know what I found out?

I realized i dont want to take a closer look at those numbers..

[hawkeyes]

taking a closer look at those numbers, hawkeye...you know what I found out?

I realized i dont want to take a closer look at those numbers..

Some say numbers never lie - so theres really no need to look further as those numbers tell us more than enough!

Heck those particular numbers the last two years are as bad or worse than Vicks 26 TD 22 INT 6 Fumbles - and he has been getting tore up by the media this year.

[BayAreaBronco]

Yes, with #18. The game never over until the game clock says 00:00. John Elway & Owner Pat Bowlen of the Denver Broncos look like prophets now & everyone is all smiles now in Mile High.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMWkw9eYU2Y&feature=share&list=PL255308CECBF6E6A5

Thank you, John Elway! (And SW to post this vid)

When Elway took the job, he said it would be a 3-year project to get back to being a contender. He's on pace. He exhudes leadership but I hear he is also a great listener.

I'm always skeptical about great players being able to be a good coach/GM or whatever, but so far, I'm pleased with what he's done. Of course, he got really lucky with Peyton becoming available, but I don't think Peyton would be in Denver if it wasn't for Elway. I thought it was really wise of Elway to give Peyton space to recover from the shock of being let go by being careful not to be pushy, but also he said he wanted to be the first to give Peyton a call, making sure he's really wanted.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Thank you, John Elway! (And SW to post this vid)

When Elway took the job, he said it would be a 3-year project to get back to being a contender. He's on pace. He exhudes leadership but I hear he is also a great listener.

I'm always skeptical about great players being able to be a good coach/GM or whatever, but so far, I'm pleased with what he's done. Of course, he got really lucky with Peyton becoming available, but I don't think Peyton would be in Denver if it wasn't for Elway. I thought it was really wise of Elway to give Peyton space to recover from the shock of being let go by being careful not to be pushy, but also he said he wanted to be the first to give Peyton a call, making sure he's really wanted.

Well, I think Elway puts in the effort. He didn't just walk into the job, he cut his teeth with the Arena league team he owned/ran for a number of years. It's not on the same level but it shares some of the same concepts. After retiring he didn't take a TV job, and ran multiple businesses.

The Dolphins gave Marino a similar position back in 2004 but he quickly learned how much effort it took and he either felt he was in over his head or didn't want to put in the effort that the job would call for.

[BayAreaBronco]

Well, I think Elway puts in the effort. He didn't just walk into the job, he cut his teeth with the Arena league team he owned/ran for a number of years. It's not on the same level but it shares some of the same concepts. After retiring he didn't take a TV job, and ran multiple businesses.

The Dolphins gave Marino a similar position back in 2004 but he quickly learned how much effort it took and he either felt he was in over his head or didn't want to put in the effort that the job would call for.

This probably means Marino is a more balanced person. And it's honest of him to admit he was in over his head. When I heard that Elway had said there was nothing that could replace winning and losing, I felt sad for him 'coz life is way more than that. But darn it, someone has to run the Broncos!

[FireJimCaldwell]

This probably means Marino is a more balanced person. And it's honest of him to admit he was in over his head. When I heard that Elway had said there was nothing that could replace winning and losing, I felt sad for him 'coz life is way more than that. But darn it, someone has to run the Broncos!

Some have that competitive edge, and if they don't replace it with something there is no telling what could happen. If you think about it most of these guys likely start playing football around age 8 and if Elway did he played the game for 30 some years. That is a big segment of a man's life. I know I miss the sport from a competitive nature. Some have it in their blood. Like the Harbaugh brothers, Brett Favre coaching at a high school, I see Peyton being the same way when he retires. He might end up doing the tv deal, but I still see him getting back into the game in some form of competitive fashion whether coaching or in a front office.

[BayAreaBronco]

Some have that competitive edge, and if they don't replace it with something there is no telling what could happen. If you think about it most of these guys likely start playing football around age 8 and if Elway did he played the game for 30 some years. That is a big segment of a man's life. I know I miss the sport from a competitive nature. Some have it in their blood. Like the Harbaugh brothers, Brett Favre coaching at a high school, I see Peyton being the same way when he retires. He might end up doing the tv deal, but I still see him getting back into the game in some form of competitive fashion whether coaching or in a front office.

Is it wrong of me to want Peyton working for us when he retires?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Is it wrong of me to want Peyton working for us when he retires?

Not at all. I think any team/school would do well with someone that entrenched into the game of football being in the fold.

[southwest1]

Fairness tells us that he has tossed 37 TD with 29 INT and 12 fumbles the last two seasons ...

Thank you, John Elway! (And SW to post this vid) When Elway took the job, he said it would be a 3-year project to get back to being a contender. He's on pace. He exhudes leadership but I hear he is also a great listener. I'm always skeptical about great players being able to be a good coach/GM or whatever, but so far, I'm pleased with what he's done. Of course, he got really lucky with Peyton becoming available, but I don't think Peyton would be in Denver if it wasn't for Elway. I thought it was really wise of Elway to give Peyton space to recover from the shock of being let go by being careful not to be pushy, but also he said he wanted to be the first to give Peyton a call, making sure he's really wanted.

Is it wrong of me to want Peyton working for us when he retires?

I will give Phillip Rivers this year to make his case the he is a SB contender, but it he fails to make it to the 2nd round of the Playoffs; I am officially done with Rivers and I will call him a bust. Yes, BAB Elway made Manning feel wanted, valuable, and not washed up. BAB ride that #18 Bronco all the way to Championship Glory my friend.

[BayAreaBronco]

I will give Phillip Rivers this year to make his case the he is a SB contender, but it he fails to make it to the 2nd round of the Playoffs; I am officially done with Rivers and I will call him a bust. Yes, BAB Elway made Manning feel wanted, valuable, and not washed up. BAB ride that #18 Bronco all the way to Championship Glory my friend.

LOL! That's more than a little premature, but today is a good day!

[southwest1]

You know, I just had a thought: Since Tony Romo has a ton of talent on the Dallas Cowboys roster and can't get to the SB in the NFC despite all the glowing praise from the NFL analysts, I think QB Phillip Rivers is the Tony Romo of the AFC. Overflowing with player talent and pieces around him and yet Rivers always seems to trip, unravel, and fall short. Yup, Rivers the AFC version of Tony Romo. I like it.

Prove me wrong Phillip. Make me eat my words. If you dare. I am tired of defending you Phillip. Show me that you belong among the NFL elite field generals. No excuses; either put up or shut up. If you lose this year, that whole roster will be ripped apart IMO. It's now or never Phillip.

[hawkeyes]

Youre too kind southwest1 ... I think theres already a fat lady wailing somewhere in SD.

[Yehoodi]

Boy, MNF was one for the ages and one that was the story of two completely different halfs . . . great win by the Broncos . . . could of been looking at 2-4 and down 2.5 games in the division now are at 3-3 and have a 0.5 lead in the division . . . Manning really got things going in the second half with the drive and great play by the D, holding SD to only 10 points in the fist half after the two TOs and then geting 5 TOs in the second half . . . just an amazing game . . .

[southwest1]

Boy, MNF was one for the ages and one that was the story of two completely different halfs . . . great win by the Broncos . . . could of been looking at 2-4 and down 2.5 games in the division now are at 3-3 and have a 0.5 lead in the division . . . Manning really got things going in the second half with the drive and great play by the D, holding SD to only 10 points in the fist half after the two TOs and then geting 5 TOs in the second half . . . just an amazing game . . .

Yes, "It was the best of times; it was the worst of times." Who knew Charles Dickens "A Tale Of Two Cities" would be right on point in the 21st Century Yehoodi. A great game indeed.

[southwest1]

Youre too kind southwest1 ... I think theres already a fat lady wailing somewhere in SD.

Perhaps, I am hawkeyes. I strive to be fair and objective in all my critical analysis. I remember the torment Peyton Manning went through before he acquired his first SB ring. It was vicious and brutal all the unflattering comments the naysayers shouted from the rooftops. As I said before, if Phillip Rivers cannot produce this season, I am severing all my ties and support of the Chargers QB. Your point is a valid one though. Well said hawkeyes.

[Jules]

Perhaps, I am hawkeyes. I strive to be fair and objective in all my critical analysis. I remember the torment Peyton Manning went through before he acquired his first SB ring. It was vicious and brutal all the unflattering comments the naysayers shouted from the rooftops. As I said before, if Phillip Rivers cannot produce this season, I am severing all my ties and support of the Chargers QB. Your point is a valid one though. Well said hawkeyes.

Chargers can still make the playoffs (heck a lot of teams in the AFC could). But, this is not new. I know this was a 24 point lead but last week vs. the Saints they had a 10 point lead in the 4th too right? And Rivers helped blow it.

From what I have read, Rivers can be lazy at times with his work ethic and depends more on pure natural ability to get him through lately. If thats the case I hope he loses since that lazy approach bugs me more then anything.

This game actually reminded me a bit of last years Lions/Cowboys game in Dallas. Rivers wasn't able to stop the bleeding last night like Romo last year. Both QBs got worse and even more flustered. Rivers has all the talent and ability in the world but I am not sure the mental toughness and poise is there either.

Granted it is a team sport but the mental toughness between last nights QBs was on full display as the game went on. One had "it" and the other didn't.

I prefer Romo to Rivers though, just a personal taste. I think he is more likable.

[dgambill]

Yup, I am starting to have my doubts about Philip Rivers. This generation's Dan Marino IMO. Pads the stat sheet flawlessly every week, but will never hoist the Lombardi Trophy. Book it!

WAAAITTT a minute. PLEASE don't put Phillip Rivers in the same category as Dan Marino...maybe Dan Fouts but not Dan Marino. There is a reason why he is the greatest qb to never win a SB. Because next to Johnny U he is the greatest qb of all time. To get put in that category you have to be one of the greatest all time not just a good qb out there today. Rivers is a good qb...top 10 in the league but that isn't top 10 in the history so lets give Dan his proper respect. Dan was something special that had no help for years and years. He was a special qb on teams of ineptitude.

Well, I think Elway puts in the effort. He didn't just walk into the job, he cut his teeth with the Arena league team he owned/ran for a number of years. It's not on the same level but it shares some of the same concepts. After retiring he didn't take a TV job, and ran multiple businesses.

The Dolphins gave Marino a similar position back in 2004 but he quickly learned how much effort it took and he either felt he was in over his head or didn't want to put in the effort that the job would call for.

Again coming to Elways defense we are talking about the Miami Dolphins front office. The've ran off Bill Parcells, Nick Sabin, Jimmy Johnson and a number of talented players....including Peyton wouldn't even entertain offers this year from them and they have a great defense and play in MIAMI!!! where he has a summer home! Can't blame Dan for not working with that disfunctional family. They never came close to giving him a team to win a SB much less give him a position where he would be able to put together one. Dan is a great commentator and I'm happy for him. Denver....gave Elway great teams...including late in his career set him up for success...he is a champion and I've heard he is super competitive at everything...especially pool so I understand why he took this job..but I don't begrudge Dan for not. To be honest I don't think Peyton will coach/front office either. I think he will be on TV where he can let one career speak for itself and have a job that people will enjoy him in and he can enjoy and I know he loves his family so he will have time for them.

I know I sound like a Marino apologist but he is a great one and shouldn't be compared to by these avg qbs out there today.

[Jules]

Yeah there is no way in the world I would compare Rivers to Marino. I think Marino would have killed it in today's offensive loving league more then ever to be honest. Several old school QBs might have.

I think it was Bradshaw who kinda said "big deal" about Brees breaking the Unitas record last weekend. Saints fans went nuts but a few said he was right. Whats the big deal at times? Records were made to be broken but they don't impress me as much anymore since so many QBs are excelling in today's NFL.

[FireJimCaldwell]

WAAAITTT a minute. PLEASE don't put Phillip Rivers in the same category as Dan Marino...maybe Dan Fouts but not Dan Marino. There is a reason why he is the greatest qb to never win a SB. Because next to Johnny U he is the greatest qb of all time. To get put in that category you have to be one of the greatest all time not just a good qb out there today. Rivers is a good qb...top 10 in the league but that isn't top 10 in the history so lets give Dan his proper respect. Dan was something special that had no help for years and years. He was a special qb on teams of ineptitude.

Again coming to Elways defense we are talking about the Miami Dolphins front office. The've ran off Bill Parcells, Nick Sabin, Jimmy Johnson and a number of talented players....including Peyton wouldn't even entertain offers this year from them and they have a great defense and play in MIAMI!!! where he has a summer home! Can't blame Dan for not working with that disfunctional family. They never came close to giving him a team to win a SB much less give him a position where he would be able to put together one. Dan is a great commentator and I'm happy for him. Denver....gave Elway great teams...including late in his career set him up for success...he is a champion and I've heard he is super competitive at everything...especially pool so I understand why he took this job..but I don't begrudge Dan for not. To be honest I don't think Peyton will coach/front office either. I think he will be on TV where he can let one career speak for itself and have a job that people will enjoy him in and he can enjoy and I know he loves his family so he will have time for them.

I know I sound like a Marino apologist but he is a great one and shouldn't be compared to by these avg qbs out there today.

There is no doubt he is/was a great one and I would say he's the greatest retired QB to play the game.

Back when he took that job(2004), Hizinga was still the owner and from what I gathered he would have the control that Elway has in Denver. This would have preceded the current ownership and even Parcells for that matter.

I think it was more of a lifestyle type deal and he didn't want to have a true full time job. I certainly wasn't bashing him and he's one of my favorite players of all time.

[southwest1]

Chargers can still make the playoffs (heck a lot of teams in the AFC could). But, this is not new. I know this was a 24 point lead but last week vs. the Saints they had a 10 point lead in the 4th too right? And Rivers helped blow it.

From what I have read, Rivers can be lazy at times with his work ethic and depends more on pure natural ability to get him through lately. If thats the case I hope he loses since that lazy approach bugs me more then anything.

This game actually reminded me a bit of last years Lions/Cowboys game in Dallas. Rivers wasn't able to stop the bleeding last night like Romo last year. Both QBs got worse and even more flustered. Rivers has all the talent and ability in the world but I am not sure the mental toughness and poise is there either.

Granted it is a team sport but the mental toughness between last nights QBs was on full display as the game went on. One had "it" and the other didn't.

I prefer Romo to Rivers though, just a personal taste. I think he is more likable.

WAAAITTT a minute. PLEASE don't put Phillip Rivers in the same category as Dan Marino...maybe Dan Fouts but not Dan Marino. There is a reason why he is the greatest qb to never win a SB. Because next to Johnny U he is the greatest qb of all time. To get put in that category you have to be one of the greatest all time not just a good qb out there today. Rivers is a good qb...top 10 in the league but that isn't top 10 in the history so lets give Dan his proper respect. Dan was something special that had no help for years and years. He was a special qb on teams of ineptitude.

Again coming to Elways defense we are talking about the Miami Dolphins front office. The've ran off Bill Parcells, Nick Sabin, Jimmy Johnson and a number of talented players....including Peyton wouldn't even entertain offers this year from them and they have a great defense and play in MIAMI!!! where he has a summer home! Can't blame Dan for not working with that disfunctional family. They never came close to giving him a team to win a SB much less give him a position where he would be able to put together one. Dan is a great commentator and I'm happy for him. Denver....gave Elway great teams...including late in his career set him up for success...he is a champion and I've heard he is super competitive at everything...especially pool so I understand why he took this job..but I don't begrudge Dan for not. To be honest I don't think Peyton will coach/front office either. I think he will be on TV where he can let one career speak for itself and have a job that people will enjoy him in and he can enjoy and I know he loves his family so he will have time for them.

I know I sound like a Marino apologist but he is a great one and shouldn't be compared to by these avg qbs out there today.

Yeah there is no way in the world I would compare Rivers to Marino. I think Marino would have killed it in today's offensive loving league more then ever to be honest. Several old school QBs might have.

In the interest of fairness, I never said Dan Marino and Phillip Rivers were HOF equals. While it is true that I did not clarify my remark, I was merely comparing similarities in a quick release of the football and ariel records achieved with the pass. Are they identical now? No of course not, but Rivers career is far from over yet. No one is knocking Dan off his HOF pedestal yet. This is exactly what I said "Pads the stat sheet flawlessly every week, but will never hoist the Lombardi Trophy. Book it!" Read the whole quote please and don't take it out of context okay. Thank you. The thesis of that quote is no Lombardi hardware, which Dan Marino and Phillip Rivers both currently share. No one can deny this fact.

Yes, Phillip does seem sloppy at times in his concentration and delivery. No argument there. Can he fix it? Absolutely. Will he? Who knows? Only Rivers can answer that.

Is Tony Romo a decent guy with bad luck or just poor focus? I like him as a person, but I despise Jerry Jones and the team Romo plays for and I always will. Nothing will ever alter that perception IMO.

[southwest1]

I respect Jules's & dgambill's insights and commentary immensely. No offense taken at all. I just wanted these 2 bright individuals to know that. Thank you. ;)

[Jules]

I respect Jules's & dgambill's insights and commentary immensely. No offense taken at all. I just wanted these 2 bright individuals to know that. Thank you. ;)

lol no problem at all. I love your opinions and I honestly don't mind the comparison even if I might have read it wrong or disagreed.

TBH there are two guys who I wished got rings; Warren Moon and Dan Marino. It doesn't happen for even some of the best ever let alone guys like Rivers. I even feel the Colts were fortunate now to get the one they did. It allll came together at the right time. Getting a championship takes a lot sadly. We all want to see our team get one or good players on other teams but it doesn't always happen. Heck last year after GB got knocked out I was rooting for Ray Lewis to get another ring. And now he might be done. Sad. Then I had to for old Eli again.

[southwest1]

lol no problem at all. I love your opinions and I honestly don't mind the comparison even if I might have read it wrong or disagreed.

TBH there are two guys who I wished got rings; Warren Moon and Dan Marino. It doesn't happen for even some of the best ever let alone guys like Rivers. I even feel the Colts were fortunate now to get the one they did. It allll came together at the right time. Getting a championship takes a lot sadly. We all want to see our team get one or good players on other teams but it doesn't always happen. Heck last year after GB got knocked out I was rooting for Ray Lewis to get another ring. And now he might be done. Sad. Then I had to for old Eli again.

Thank you Jules for your kind words about my opinions. I appreciate that. Yes, you are exactly right Championships are so hard to obtain in this league and so much luck [no pun intended] and good fortunate must fall into a team's lap. So, much of a team's Championship fate is outside a franchise QB's control: WR's and TE's catching crucial 3rd down and long passes for 1st downs, RB pass blocking protection so the QB can survey the field and go through all their progressions, solid chucks acquired on the ground to open up the play action pass and keeping full blitzes at bay, special team's pinning your opponent deep, and your defense causing turnovers.

I also agree with you 100% that QB Warren Moon deserves a ring and Jim Kelly too. 4 consecutive SB's and no ring...Jesus, what a devastating blow psychologically speaking. Wow! 4 times to the BIG Dance and no ring. I can't even wrap my head around that. If Buffalo had made that FG kick against the NY Giants, who knows maybe Buffalo is an NFL Dynasty along with the Steelers and the 49ers. How do you pick yourself off the losing SB mat after the 3rd Lombardi loss?!! A great team IMO.

Sure, Dan Marino deserved a ring, but Warren Moon and Jim Kelly deserved it more given their determination, persistence, and unfulfilled expectations and dreams so close to the brass ring and NFL immortality.

Am I too tough on Phillip Rivers? Yes, probably. Rivers is certainly capable. He has all the tools in his toolbox at his disposal. Chalk it up to tough love: Time to talk off the training wheels, get angry, demand precision, and throw the man in the ocean and see if he can sink or swim.

If it comes down to Manning or Rivers in the AFC West, #18 is who I root for hands down...Mr. Clutch...Money in the bank baby. CHA CHING!

[dgambill]

I respect Jules's & dgambill's insights and commentary immensely. No offense taken at all. I just wanted these 2 bright individuals to know that. Thank you. ;)

No problem at all. True they both don't have rings but come on...saying Marino patted his stats is laughable imo. I've never heard anyone claim that. No offense to you either I just don't see that. I'm not even sure Rivers is that type of qb. He was a top 5 qb up until last year and kinda like Big Ben it appears defenses have started to figure him out...and also he has had lots of issues in the receiving core with his security blanket Gates being hurt most of the last two years and the loss of Vincent Jackson for most of last year and his new receivers this year. He benefited A TON from having the best RB in recent history in LT for a long part of his career and losing him, Sproles, and Tolbert have left the spot light and weight of the offense purely on him. It is clear he hasn't been able to carry it. Dan never had anything close to resembling a running game nor dominant WRs and put up numbers and wins for years carrying that franchise. I just don't see the comparison personally but no prob that we disagree.

[bayone]

u reponded to my posting of a Denverpost .com article titled

Manning's fine, but other Broncos stars must play like it

Its a little early for comments like this conisdering the schedule so far.

based on last Monday night game u just may be right, maybe both offense & defense needs time for that chemistry that 2nd half d came alive and thank you porter for being sick and having Tony Carter start,