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Gregg Williams Affidavit


FireJimCaldwell
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have absolutely no respect for Vilma, Smith, or any of the other people involved in the bounties, including Williams and Payton. I'm personally very surprised that Roman Harper didn't get a suspension because in my eyes, he deserved a big one. I've also lost a ton of respect overall for the Saints organization and for people like Drew Brees, who weren't directly involved in the bounties, but defended the bounties even after Williams had admitted they were going on.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have absolutely no respect for Vilma, Smith, or any of the other people involved in the bounties, including Williams and Payton. I'm personally very surprised that Roman Harper didn't get a suspension because in my eyes, he deserved a big one. I've also lost a ton of respect overall for the Saints organization and for people like Drew Brees, who weren't directly involved in the bounties, but defended the bounties even after Williams had admitted they were going on.

I agree, I don't see how Brees and others in the organization didn't know about it even if they weren't "defensive" players...

I'm not sure what accounting proof they have of any of these payments, but to me any player that put into the kitty or received anything from it should have been suspended some games as well.

It's just deplorable conduct.

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I don't believe Williams for a second At this point I don't know who to believe. Who's got the greatest incentive to lie out of the two? The guy who is suspended indefinitely, or the guy who was suspended for a year?

He signed it three days ago.....Not months back, but 72 hours ago......Come on now

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I don't believe Williams for a second At this point I don't know who to believe. Who's got the greatest incentive to lie out of the two? The guy who is suspended indefinitely, or the guy who was suspended for a year?

He signed it three days ago.....Not months back, but 72 hours ago......Come on now

It also said that he provided that information previously.

One thing makes me question the whole thing and that is why was their no talk of knocking Manning out of the Super Bowl... There was talk of Warner in the playoffs, of Favre in the playoffs but Manning/Super Bowl hasn't been mentioned.

But on the other hand, if I'm Sean Payton and if I feel I'm innocent, I'm going to be kicking/fighting/screaming during this whole process...

It's a mess...

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I agree, I don't see how Brees and others in the organization didn't know about it even if they weren't "defensive" players...

I'm not sure what accounting proof they have of any of these payments, but to me any player that put into the kitty or received anything from it should have been suspended some games as well.

It's just deplorable conduct.

So, can we make Drew Brees and co. SHUT UP about the whole "show us the evidence" thing now?

I never understood that. The NFL said many times it had evidence and Williams admitted to it happening. Where does the whole "show us the evidence" even come from? It just makes them look foolish, if you ask me.

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It also said that he provided that information previously.

One thing makes me question the whole thing and that is why was their no talk of knocking Manning out of the Super Bowl... There was talk of Warner in the playoffs, of Favre in the playoffs but Manning/Super Bowl hasn't been mentioned.

But on the other hand, if I'm Sean Payton and if I feel I'm innocent, I'm going to be kicking/fighting/screaming during this whole process...

It's a mess...

I agree. I'm a Criminal Justice major, and one of the most important things I've learned is in regard to plea bargains. I think it pertains here. "Never give an offer an innocent man would take". I don't understand how any of this is still in question. If Goodell doesn't have the authority to suspend in the league he is in charge of, who does?

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I never understood that. The NFL said many times it had evidence and Williams admitted to it happening. Where does the whole "show us the evidence" even come from? It just makes them look foolish, if you ask me.

It had evidence, but it wasn't really good evidence....If you saw what the NFLPA posted (They showed the actual evidence the NFL presented them) it was mediocre at best...

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So someone's testimony does not count. Incriminating testimony in a court of law can be used to convict someone. In the NFL, players are suspended for alleged crimes. Big Ben's charges were dropped but he was still suspended 4 games. If the DC that coached you is willing to risk his reputation by putting something on the dotted line in writing, with the possibility that players might hate him and not want to play for him, I am not sure what more could be incriminating.

I actually called this, that it would be Gregg Williams that would be the one with a written statement, a few weeks ago.

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It had evidence, but it wasn't really good evidence....If you saw what the NFLPA posted (They showed the actual evidence the NFL presented them) it was mediocre at best...

I might be remembering wrong, but I thought the NFLPA only saw a portion of the evidence. I'd have to try and dig that back up and remember what exactly I heard.

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None of these players ever should have been reinstated. I also tend to think the way the team is playing is a product of it... It is like they have no incentive to play the way they have over the last few year.

Of course the media chalks it up to Sean Payton's absence. I agree with you though.

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First.... I have no desire to punish Williams for the rest of his life. A year removed from coaching is plenty I think.

Second.... I'm not happy that so far, all we're reading is that the Williams affidavit was the only thing shown to Vilma. I'm hoping the NFL has more than just this. Frankly, I'm hoping for much more.

Finally, I'm getting very concerned that Goddell and his staff have badly handled this. They've almost made the suspended players look sympathetic. They've done a poor job of getting the public to accept that there is iron-clad proof of what they allege happened. This should have been a slam-dunk case, and yet the NFL has bungled it, IMO.

I think the plan was always to reduce the suspensions when the players confessed and apologized. But when they didn't, the NFL didn't quite know what to do. Again, bad planning. You have to know what your Plan-B is when Plan-A doesn't work.

Keeping things in NFL terms, this has either been a fumble or a muff. And right now, it's under review. I hope the NFL didn't overstate their case. Because if they did....... :facepalm:

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Second.... I'm not happy that so far, all we're reading is that the Williams affidavit was the only thing shown to Vilma. I'm hoping the NFL has more than just this. Frankly, I'm hoping for much more.

Why is everyone so quick to dismiss a written affidavit as flimsy evidence? If Gregg Williams swears in a court of law and testifies that he was not forced to sign the affidavit, would it make that affidavit any more credible?

First, Vilma will give Gregg the benefit of doubt and say the NFL bullied him into signing it. Once Gregg Williams testifies he was not bullied, then Vilma and his lawyers will change the tune to saying Gregg Williams is a liar, and so on.

What motivation does Gregg Williams have to throw Vilma under the bus if it really did not happen, you think he is doing this for kicks? Gregg Williams has more to lose in a players' league, in the eyes of the NFLPA, in the eyes of defensive players he may or may not be coaching in the future; by doing what he did, IMO.

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First.... I have no desire to punish Williams for the rest of his life. A year removed from coaching is plenty I think.

Plenty?

If this were simply a one time deal, then a year might be a justifiable punishment.

These actions are so serious that he doesn't deserve to teach/coach the great game of football on any level much less be paid 6 to 7 figures to do it.

If he comes back and Luck's career is altered by one of his defenses, then maybe your view point will be a little different.

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http://assets.espn.g...amsdocument.pdf

If Goodell allows him to coach again, it will supplant Vick's reinstatement as his greatest mistake he has made as commissioner.

I hope Vilma enjoys his impending suspension.

Wasn't he tweeting Victory just a week or so ago...

You go it......Everyon ekept demanidng to se the evidnce and it turns out Goddell simply didnt want it public that Vilma's own

coaches had rated him out UNDER OATH..

....I agree....Vilma can plan his vacation...

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Why is everyone so quick to dismiss a written affidavit as flimsy evidence? If Gregg Williams swears in a court of law and testifies that he was not forced to sign the affidavit, would it make that affidavit any more credible?

First, Vilma will give Gregg the benefit of doubt and say the NFL bullied him into signing it. Once Gregg Williams testifies he was not bullied, then Vilma and his lawyers will change the tune to saying Gregg Williams is a liar, and so on.

What motivation does Gregg Williams have to throw Vilma under the bus if it really did not happen, you think he is doing this for kicks? Gregg Williams has more to lose in a players' league, in the eyes of the NFLPA, in the eyes of defensive players he may or may not be coaching in the future; by doing what he did, IMO.

Answers for Chad.... hang tight, this post is a bit long. Apologies in advance....

First, I didn't call the affidavit flimsy. I said it wasn't enough and there needs to be plenty more. And the reason why is this...

Vilma and the others were already named/targeted by the NFL -- the public already knew the were under the cloud of suspicion when Gregg Williams gave the NFL the affidavit. His testimony may be the **strongest** piece of evidence the NFL thinks it has but it can't be the **only** piece of evidence. What evidence did they have **prior** to Williams. That can't be dismissed now that the NFL thinks it has it's smoking gun. There needs to be more. Because if the Vilma lawyers, or the lawyers for the other players can somehow poke a whole in it, then the NFL's case begins to collapse.

When this started, the NFL publicly said they had 50,000 pages of evidence from some 18,000 documents. That helped form public opinion that these guys had to be guilty. It wasn't until months later that the NFL stepped back a bit saying they had gone through all of those pages to **find** the evidence they needed. They didn't have 50,000 pages of proof. They had to go through all of that to find whatever proof they thought they had. And now to dismiss it? To hang your whole case on Williams? That doesn't seem smart or right.

Last thought. You ask what is Williams motivation? Getting a job in the NFL again. He's good at what he does. Yes, he wants the support of his players, but if it means getting a job again, and the price is he's never going to be as close with his players as he once was, then so be it. That's his motivation for cooperating with the NFL. Whether he lied or distorted or allowed himself to be bullied or pushed around I hope we'll find out. And I hope that didn't happen. But we'll soon find out.

Apologies for being so long...

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So, can we make Drew Brees and co. SHUT UP about the whole "show us the evidence" thing now?

Brees looks really stupid.....and Vilma looks guilty...

Goddell is giving him a chance to admit he's wrong and he'll cut the suspension in half....he's hinting that

Or Vilma can keep suing everybody and miss the entire season..

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You go it......Everyon ekept demanidng to se the evidnce and it turns out Goddell simply didnt want it public that Vilma's own

coaches had rated him out UNDER OATH..

....I agree....Vilma can plan his vacation...

Was there some reason you misspelled 6 words in this post? I'm only curious if you had some hidden meaning behind it. I've never see you do that before.... no biggie either way, just curious.

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Answers for Chad.... hang tight, this post is a bit long. Apologies in advance....

First, I didn't call the affidavit flimsy. I said it wasn't enough and there needs to be plenty more. And the reason why is this...

Vilma and the others were already named/targeted by the NFL -- the public already knew the were under the cloud of suspicion when Gregg Williams gave the NFL the affidavit. His testimony may be the **strongest** piece of evidence the NFL thinks it has but it can't be the **only** piece of evidence. What evidence did they have **prior** to Williams. That can't be dismissed now that the NFL thinks it has it's smoking gun. There needs to be more. Because if the Vilma lawyers, or the lawyers for the other players can somehow poke a whole in it, then the NFL's case begins to collapse.

When this started, the NFL publicly said they had 50,000 pages of evidence from some 18,000 documents. That helped form public opinion that these guys had to be guilty. It wasn't until months later that the NFL stepped back a bit saying they had gone through all of those pages to **find** the evidence they needed. They didn't have 50,000 pages of proof. They had to go through all of that to find whatever proof they thought they had. And now to dismiss it? To hang your whole case on Williams? That doesn't seem smart or right.

Last thought. You ask what is Williams motivation? Getting a job in the NFL again. He's good at what he does. Yes, he wants the support of his players, but if it means getting a job again, and the price is he's never going to be as close with his players as he once was, then so be it. That's his motivation for cooperating with the NFL. Whether he lied or distorted or allowed himself to be bullied or pushed around I hope we'll find out. And I hope that didn't happen. But we'll soon find out.

Apologies for being so long...

You dont need to apologize, you do make valid points.

That is why they do cash transactions because it cannot be traced, unless one or two players come forward and corroborate what Gregg Williams signed. It is not like transferring money to a checking account that can be tracked. The documents were mainly ledgers or copies of e-mails exchanged that alleged to something happening. Unless you have video evidence, there will always be uncertainty with any evidence.

Right now, evidence can only be circumstantial. That is why in a court of law, you have varying degrees of charges. Sometimes, you prove intent and can get a lower conviction but it is still a conviction. We will see how this thing unfolds.

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Plenty?

If this were simply a one time deal, then a year might be a justifiable punishment.

These actions are so serious that he doesn't deserve to teach/coach the great game of football on any level much less be paid 6 to 7 figures to do it.

If he comes back and Luck's career is altered by one of his defenses, then maybe your view point will be a little different.

I agree the actions are serious. But as someone who likely can no longer practice the profession he did for 30 years, I'm hyper sensitive to people losing their careers. Perhaps too sensitive. (by the way, my reasons for not being in journalism are not nefarious. no wrong doing. but I won't bore you with details, but the reasons are benign.)

But I think a year out of the league and a reputation ruined is damage enough for Williams. And at the risk of further bothering you I'm also OK with Vick being back in the league. I think redemption is an admirable quality. And giving someone the chance to redeem themselves is good. And I think it's good for the NFL. It shows other players who may have or who may be screwing up that they can turn their lives around and not lose their careers in the NFL.

By the way, I'm always amused when I hear members of the media crying that Sean Peyton's year long suspension is way too long. Are you kidding me? When the NFL was telling the Saints they were busted, Peyton got his coaches together and said... "we're going to lie. let's get our stories straight." The NFL says it has proof of that. And I assume that's why Peyton disappeared without much of a fight. I have ZERO problem with his punishment. Lying to the Commissioner is not high on my list of forgivable sins. But I still think a year is OK. His reputation is badly tarnished now.

Just a difference of opinion.....

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I agree the actions are serious. But as someone who likely can no longer practice the profession he did for 30 years, I'm hyper sensitive to people losing their careers. Perhaps too sensitive. (by the way, my reasons for not being in journalism are not nefarious. no wrong doing. but I won't bore you with details, but the reasons are benign.)

But I think a year out of the league and a reputation ruined is damage enough for Williams. And at the risk of further bothering you I'm also OK with Vick being back in the league. I think redemption is an admirable quality. And giving someone the chance to redeem themselves is good. And I think it's good for the NFL. It shows other players who may have or who may be screwing up that they can turn their lives around and not lose their careers in the NFL.

By the way, I'm always amused when I hear members of the media crying that Sean Peyton's year long suspension is way too long. Are you kidding me? When the NFL was telling the Saints they were busted, Peyton got his coaches together and said... "we're going to lie. let's get our stories straight." The NFL says it has proof of that. And I assume that's why Peyton disappeared without much of a fight. I have ZERO problem with his punishment. Lying to the Commissioner is not high on my list of forgivable sins. But I still think a year is OK. His reputation is badly tarnished now.

Just a difference of opinion.....

Well one, he's made a ton of money as it is, if he doesn't have a nest egg at this point, then that is on him. two, he does have other options. TV,/internet work. He could create a website where he broke down games from a DC point of view, and look at each touchdown and why it worked and look at each interception and why that pass failed.

He has other options as opposed to being on a staff.

I'm all for 2nd chances most of the time, but sometimes there are people that aren't worthy of a 2nd chance in the same position.

I hate seeing people lose their careers/jobs as well. I know some that have and like you said to no fault of their own, but it happens. It's unfortunate. Life is unfair at times, but when some individuals make conscious efforts to accomplish something, and they succeed up until they get caught, I can't feel sorry for them and don't see them worth of a 2nd chance. He, like Vick didn't simply make a mistake.

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