Surprised this not posted: End of Giants-Bucs game....

[NewColtsFan]

So... the Giants have the game won. Final seconds, they lead by 7 and have the ball.

They're in victory formation, Eli Manning is going to take the snap and take a knee and that's it. Game over.

Except, Greg Schiano, the Bucs rookie HC tells his defense to plow into the Giants center and guards and blow them up and try to get Manning to fumble so they could recover and have one last shot.

It doesn't work and the game ends.

But the old friendly coaches hand shake at the end is replaced by a long and loud lecture from the Giants Tom Coughlin "you don't do that in this league" to Schiano "I want my players playing hard till the game ends"...

And it continues on with coaches and players... Coughlin saying it's a cheap play and Schiano saying it's legal and not dirty...

Here's a write-up with tape....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/tom-coughlin-greg-schiano-harsh-words-giants-beat-220922704--nfl.html

It is legal. To be clear, it is absolutely legal.

Whether it's right or wrong is whole other story. And the league has a way of remembering these moments. Don't be surprised to see other teams trying to run-up the score on the Bucs or do something else that may be legal, but may not be right.

It goes both ways... Schiano may learn this lesson the hard way....

[Gavin]

Its legal and I hope when the Colts are faced with that same situation Pagano teaches them to play to the final whistle

[Dan]

It's legal, but you don't do stuff like that. It's dangerous and unsportsmanlike, I'd be embarrassed if Colts tried the same thing.

[trsean]

If the Giants fumbled and the Bucs ran it in, everyone would say how right Schiano was to have his players go to the final second.

[Gramz]

It's legal, but you don't do stuff like that. It's dangerous and unsportsmanlike, I'd be embarrassed if Colts tried the same thing.

I agree... it is like some "unwritten rule" or something..

[MIColtsFan]

It depends, usually the team with the ball would say to the D, we are taking a knee. If the Bucs D commented any agreement, then it's not cool. If they said nothing, then the Giants are fools for not reading the body language of the stances and should of gotten down ready for play until the clock read zero. It's pretty obvious the Bucs were in a stance to rush the ball, so why the Giants did not get ready is unknown. I'm sure there will be more discussion on this to come. I'm glad no one was injured.

[FightLikeSin]

Its legal and I hope when the Colts are faced with that same situation Pagano teaches them to play to the final whistle

I'd be embarrassed and ashamed if the Colts played like that. You put a target on your back when you do stupid stuff like that.

[NewColtsFan]

I'd be embarrassed and ashamed if the Colts played like that. You put a target on your back when you do stupid stuff like that.

Nicely said, both by you and poster Dan..... really.

And I'd be stunned and disappointed if Pagano did that to his players. I doubt the Bucs players liked doing it. That's what the story I linked suggested.

[Gavin]

trying to win when the game is close when there are seconds left is embarrasing? I think watching an opposing team take a few kneel downs while the game is close is far more embarrassing

[Gramz]

It depends, usually the team with the ball would say to the D, we are taking a knee. If the Bucs D commented any agreement, then it's not cool. If they said nothing, then the Giants are fools for not reading the body language of the stances and should of gotten down ready for play until the clock read zero. It's pretty obvious the Bucs were in a stance to rush the ball, so why the Giants did not get ready is unknown. I'm sure there will be more discussion on this to come. I'm glad no one was injured.

I think Giants had lined up in the victory formation, had they not...?? It's a given at that point what they are going to do.

[Gramz]

trying to win when the game is close when there are seconds left is embarrasing? I think watching an opposing team take a few kneel diowns while the game is close is far more embarrassing then

Teams do it all the time... even in championship games. WINNING

[Blackhawk4]

It's a joke of a move. Difference between trying to win the game and just embarrassing yourself and making yourself look like an *. The Bucs did the latter.

trying to win when the game is close when there are seconds left is embarrasing? I think watching an opposing team take a few kneel downs while the game is close is far more embarrassing

Then you must think the colts during the Manning's time were a complete embarrassment? Please get out of here. That's just being silly.

[Gavin]

It's a joke of a move. Difference between trying to win the game and just embarrassing yourself and making yourself look like an *. The Bucs did the latter.

Then you must think the colts during the Manning's time were a complete embarrassment? Please get out of here. That's just being silly.

Im not sure Manning has to do with any of this or many games of the last 14 years has to do with any of this, seriously how many games were the Colts able to just take a kneel down and run out the clock? yes to me its infuriating and embarrassing to watch a team do that, Schiano made the right call if the Giants dont like it they are in the wrong line of work

[IndyTrav]

There were 32pts scored in the 4th qt. 21 in the last 4 minutes.

You don't give up until the final play in a game like that.

The circumstances justified the play in my opinion.

It's a case by case basis for plays like this. If its 34-10 you don't do that.

[oldunclemark]

So... the Giants have the game won. Final seconds, they lead by 7 and have the ball.

They're in victory formation, Eli Manning is going to take the snap and take a knee and that's it. Game over.

Except, Greg Schiano, the Bucs rookie HC tells his defense to plow into the Giants center and guards and blow them up and try to get Manning to fumble so they could recover and have one last shot.

It doesn't work and the game ends.

But the old friendly coaches hand shake at the end is replaced by a long and loud lecture from the Giants Tom Coughlin "you don't do that in this league" to Schiano "I want my players playing hard till the game ends"...

And it continues on with coaches and players... Coughlin saying it's a cheap play and Schiano saying it's legal and not dirty...

Here's a write-up with tape....

http://sports.yahoo....22704--nfl.html

It is legal. To be clear, it is absolutely legal.

Whether it's right or wrong is whole other story. And the league has a way of remembering these moments. Don't be surprised to see other teams trying to run-up the score on the Bucs or do something else that may be legal, but may not be right.

It goes both ways... Schiano may learn this lesson the hard way....

It was a one-score game...

Its not like the NYG's have never fumbled when they were running out the clock..

Coughlin and Eli are just wrong here...

I want my team to play till the horn in a one-score game. Its pro football, not SpongeBob league

[southwest1]

This whole episode on the part of the new Tampa Bay head coach was *ic and stupid. This is the NFL sir not college football sir. Franchises spend millions on starting QB's in this league and, if they go down, you're entire season and any Playoff hopes flush right down the toilet with your injured field general. So lame, so ludicrous, so absurd, and so preposterous it isn't even funny.

I do remember HOF Dolphins QB Dan Marino faking a knee once and throwing a game winning TD once, but come on man this isn't the right way to make a good first impression sir. :slaphead:

[southwest1]

It was a one-score game...

Its not like the NYG's have never fumbled when they were running out the clock..

Coughlin and Eli are just wrong here...

Oldunclemark,

You have to be kidding me with a response like that. Behavior like that is cheap, below the belt, and reeks of poor sportsmanship. Coughlin and Eli are exactly right.

I hope the new Tampa Bay Coach likes the self inflicted bullseye he just put on his back.

I have ZERO respect for what Greg Schiano did yesterday and, if I were the owner Malcolm Glazer, Mr. Schiano and I are having a serious conversation about coaching conduct and etiquette in the NFL. I would be furious!!!!!

[Blackhawk4]

Im not sure Manning has to do with any of this or many games of the last 14 years has to do with any of this, seriously how many games were the Colts able to just take a kneel down and run out the clock? yes to me its infuriating and embarrassing to watch a team do that, Schiano made the right call if the Giants dont like it they are in the wrong line of work

You seem to not be getting the point. If Schiano made the right call then how come it didn't work and the Bucs didn't win game? What exactly is "right" about it? All they did was make themselves look stupid and end up just trying to hurt themselves or one of the Giants players.

[oldunclemark]

Oldunclemark,

You have to be kidding me with a response like that. Behavior like that is cheap, below the belt, and reeks of poor sportsmanship. Coughlin and Eli are exactly right.

I hope the new Tampa Bay Coach likes the self inflicted bullseye he just put on his back.

I have ZERO respect for what Greg Schiano did yesterday and, if I were the owner Malcolm Glazer, Mr. Schiano and I are having a serious conversation about coaching conduct and etiquette in the NFL. I would be furious!!!!!

seriously..when exactly should you give up in a one-score game.?

The Giants have fumbled and lost the ball running out the clock......there's a very famous time they did

the Cardinals did it yesterday...

I want my team to play to the end..and Tampa lost a lot of games in the final seconds last year..

In a 4TD spread.......no.........but in a one-score game...you play till the last second...

Tom Coughling is just old and wrong....and what he said was stupid times 10

and Eli is an offensive player...of course he feels the 'D' should give up...

This isnt the SugarBear League...in the pros....they pay you to play till the end...

Like boxing...protect yourself at ALL times

[oldunclemark]

This whole episode on the part of the new Tampa Bay head coach was *ic and stupid. This is the NFL sir not college football sir. Franchises spend millions on starting QB's in this league and, if they go down, you're entire season and any Playoff hopes flush right down the toilet with your injured field general. So lame, so ludicrous, so absurd, and so preposterous it isn't even funny.

I do remember HOF Dolphins QB Dan Marino faking a knee once and throwing a game winning TD once, but come on man this isn't the right way to make a good first impression sir. :slaphead:

The Tampa coach is a former NFL coach for 5 years....

[oldunclemark]

If the Giants fumbled and the Bucs ran it in, everyone would say how right Schiano was to have his players go to the final second.

Right..when exactly do you lay down and quit in a one-score game?

[Andy]

It's immoral and it's a great way to make ennemies, which is something you shouldn't do in your first year in the NFL.

Schiano lost my respect.

[oldunclemark]

It's immoral and it's a great way to make ennemies, which is something you shouldn't do in your first year in the NFL.

Schiano lost my respect.

Its immoral to play the final play all out in a one-score game? Really want to say that?

and, for the record, Schiano is NOT in his first year in the NFL....it his 6th

[WSO]

If the Giants fumbled and the Bucs ran it in, everyone would say how right Schiano was to have his players go to the final second.

Yeah this is how I see it. Since it didn't work Schiano looks bad but if it did work Schiano would be praised.

[GoPats]

If the Giants fumbled and the Bucs ran it in, everyone would say how right Schiano was to have his players go to the final second.

I'm with the Giants fan on this one.

I wouldn't necessarily make the same call as Schiano, but you have to be ready on both sides of the ball. It literally takes a fraction of a second to kneel on it. Block other guys for just that split second and you have nothing to worry about.

[trsean]

Really. I just don't get how ANYone could be opposed to Schiano's decision. I was actually embarrassed by Coughlin's feigned outrage that he used to cover up for the fact that his O-line simply wasn't ready. The Bucs didn't sneak attack. They lined up like they were coming and they did. "Oh, I'm sorry?..Was this the part where we were supposed to just let you win?...Our bad."

Yeah, no. One score game? I want my team crashing that line and giving that QB something to worry about.

EDIT: I say this on the heels of watching my team just sit back like a bunch of milquetoasts while Romo knelt down, worry free, when it was still a one score game.

[Gramz]

Hypothetical question here...

SUPPOSE this was the end of the Colts/Vikings game yesterday...

SUPPOSE Colts got the ball back at the end of a very hard fought physical game.

SUPPOSE it was a "one score game" with time running out and we had the lead and the ball....

SUPPOSE We lined up in the victory position to run the clock down....

AND

SUPPOSE the Vikings "knowing" this decided to not let us do that and rushed our players, which could have quite possibly ended the game in a different way, and quite possibly injured some of our players... Would those of you taking the stance that TB was correct in what they did still be saying the same...??? Just asking, Hypothetically.... :???:

[southwest1]

The Tampa coach is a former NFL coach for 5 years....

What former NFL team did Mr. Greg Schiano coach because he sure didn't make a very good teacher then because I have no idea who he is beyond his Rutgers State University of New Jersey HC experience? Give me some NFL names that he has worked under please. Thank you. Who was he a coordinator under exactly?

This is what his Biography says on Tampa Bay Bucs website: [No mention of any NFL head coaching experience here that I can see Oldunclemark.]

"Named the ninth head coach in franchise history on January 27, 2012, Greg Schiano enters his first season at the helm of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2012.

This will mark the fourth season of NFL experience for Schiano, who also brings to Tampa Bay a wealth of experience from his 21 seasons working amongst the college ranks.

Schiano joins the Buccaneers from his previous position as the head coach of Rutgers University, where he served 11 years, transforming the Scarlet Knights from an unknown into a consistently competitive, winning and respected program.

Under his leadership, Rutgers – which had advanced to a postseason bowl just once in the team’s previous 135-year history – developed a new tradition of not only competing in, but also winning, bowl games. In his final seven seasons with the team, Schiano’s Scarlet Knights qualified for six bowls and recorded five consecutive bowl victories."

[FireJimCaldwell]

I can see both sides of the coin.

You want to play 60 minutes. You don't want to give up.

In high school we were losing, and the other team was about to take a knee... One of our coaches told our free safety to time the snap count and dive over the line... He timed it perfectly knocking the ball loose from the quarterback. We recovered, and kicked a fg to win the game. We wouldn't have had a chance of winning if he hadn't done that. Whether that is worse that what happened yesterday is open for discussion.

Expanding on this: We had about a minute and half left. The Giants had 5 seconds.... So even if Eli would have fumbled, they would have had to take it to the house on that play to even have a chance.

Maybe the line should have been more prepared. Maybe Eli should have seen what the defenses intentions were..

If anything it's instilling a never-say-die approach.

Rivers also fumbled a snap while taking a knee last year vs. the Chiefs or Raiders while trying to take a knee/set up a fg.

Kurt Warner did the same thing late in a game once.

I'm glad Eli or none of the Giants were hurt, but I'm not sure I can fault wanting to win.

Now imagine if Eli had faked taking a knee, and Nicks or Cruz would have ran 9 routes and just added to the score...

The Giants OL should have been able to tell what was about to happen. The Giants didn't have a timeout to use at that point but Manning could have taken a delay of game..

I'm torn on my thoughts on the topic..

[FireJimCaldwell]

What former NFL team did Mr. Greg Schiano coach because he sure didn't make a very good teacher then because I have no idea who he is beyond his Rutgers State University of New Jersey HC experience?

He was a defensive assistant for Chicago under Wannestedt for 2 years and then promoted to coach DB his final year there in 98. Bob Slowik was the DC in Chicago at that point in time.

He spent 90-95 with Paterno @ Penn State

Spent a couple of years as a DC under Butch Davis with the Hurricanes.

Rutgers is his only HC experience.

[The Fish]

The NFL says it's legal. It's just one of those things where the heart and brain don't agree. If it had worked what would you make of that?

[oldunclemark]

Hypothetical question here...

SUPPOSE this was the end of the Colts/Vikings game yesterday...

SUPPOSE Colts got the ball back at the end of a very hard fought physical game.

SUPPOSE it was a "one score game" with time running out and we had the lead and the ball....

SUPPOSE We lined up in the victory position to run the clock down....

AND

SUPPOSE the Vikings "knowing" this decided to not let us do that and rushed our players, which could have quite possibly ended the game in a different way, and quite possibly injured some of our players... Would those of you taking the stance that TB was correct in what they did still be saying the same...??? Just asking, Hypothetically.... :???:

Definetly...

I dont want the other side to give up...and I dont want our team to ASSUME vctory on a 7-point game with time still on the clock and ease up to be 'friendly', as Eli put it...

Come on....guys..its not the Lingerie League

Tampa didnt cheap shot the NYGs.... They just went hard for the ball....

Down one TD....if I'm on defense.....that's what I would have done.

isnt it what you would have done?

[southwest1]

seriously..when exactly should you give up in a one-score game.?

Tom Coughling is just old and wrong....and what he said was stupid times 10

and Eli is an offensive player...of course he feels the 'D' should give up...

This isnt the SugarBear League...in the pros....they pay you to play till the end...

Like boxing...protect yourself at ALL times

You bet your caboose I'm serious. Toughness and preparation having nothing to do with this final result whatsoever. Tom Coughlin is 100% correct. Let's say the roles are reversed and Tampa has the lead and the Giants pull a juvenile stunt like this and QB Josh Freeman gets a season ending injury would Coach Shiano be happy about that. Abosolutely NOT!!! What an *!!!

"Like boxing...protect yourself at ALL times" Why even have referees, yellow flags, and penaties then? Clearly, you and I will never see eye to eye on this one oldunclemark, which is fine I guess.

[oldunclemark]

What former NFL team did Mr. Greg Schiano coach because he sure didn't make a very good teacher then because I have no idea who he is beyond his Rutgers State University of New Jersey HC experience? Give me some NFL names that he has worked under please. Thank you. Who was he a coordinator under exactly?

This is what his Biography says on Tampa Bay Bucs website: [No mention of any NFL head coaching experience here that I can see Oldunclemark.]

"Named the ninth head coach in franchise history on January 27, 2012, Greg Schiano enters his first season at the helm of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2012.

This will mark the fourth season of NFL experience for Schiano, who also brings to Tampa Bay a wealth of experience from his 21 seasons working amongst the college ranks.

Schiano joins the Buccaneers from his previous position as the head coach of Rutgers University, where he served 11 years, transforming the Scarlet Knights from an unknown into a consistently competitive, winning and respected program.

Under his leadership, Rutgers – which had advanced to a postseason bowl just once in the team’s previous 135-year history – developed a new tradition of not only competing in, but also winning, bowl games. In his final seven seasons with the team, Schiano’s Scarlet Knights qualified for six bowls and recorded five consecutive bowl victories."

I stand corrceted..it was 3 years..

WE know him up here as a former Chicago Bears assistant coach... in the late 1990s

I guess the inference is: That he does not understand the NFL mind?

that you play hard every play in college but not in the pros??

Interesting.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Hypothetical question here...

SUPPOSE this was the end of the Colts/Vikings game yesterday...

SUPPOSE Colts got the ball back at the end of a very hard fought physical game.

SUPPOSE it was a "one score game" with time running out and we had the lead and the ball....

SUPPOSE We lined up in the victory position to run the clock down....

AND

SUPPOSE the Vikings "knowing" this decided to not let us do that and rushed our players, which could have quite possibly ended the game in a different way, and quite possibly injured some of our players... Would those of you taking the stance that TB was correct in what they did still be saying the same...??? Just asking, Hypothetically.... :???:

My answer is a hypocritical. I wouldn't want my team to give up, but I wouldn't want that done to my team. I certainly wouldn't want anyone inured whether it was done by my team or against my team.

Just like fans don't mind one-sided games when it's their team tilting the scoreboard, but if they are on the other side of it, they can call foul.

Some people say Manning catching at team with 12 men on the field is trickery, or cheap, while some say it's him taking advantage of the situation.

The same thing could be said with the fake spike by Marino, or when Manning fooled even the officials with the play vs. the Saints a few years ago(wish that was on You Tube).

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/112501/jag_7912443.html

Former Miami quarterback Dan Marino set the gold standard for the fake spike when he threw a touchdown off one against the New York Jets a few years ago.

But he couldn't match the theatrics Indianapolis quarterback Peyton Manning came up with against the New Orleans Saints last Sunday.

Manning's fake was so good that he faked out the referee.

"I've been saving that one for a while," he said.

After throwing a 14-yard pass with 14 seconds left, the Colts rushed to the line and Manning took the snap just as the clock ticked to 0:00.]

He turned to referee Jeff Triplette with the football in his hand and his head shaking.

"I unbuckled my chin strap and kind of whined and pleaded for one more second," he said.

Manning turned away in disgust and began jogging around right end. He appeared to be heading toward the locker room in disgust, even though the locker room was on the other side of the field. When he got to the end zone, the Colts wanted a touchdown. But Triplette said he had gone for the fake and blown the whistle and the play was dead. After huddling, the officials put a second back on the clock and the Colts kicked a field goal.

The Saints weren't amused. Coach Jim Haslett was furious.

"He snapped the ball with no time on the clock. It was clear. I talked to the league office and they said the same thing. They had a receiver getting set and, to add insult to injury, the whistle went off and our players stopped. There's no doubt he wouldn't have scored a touchdown. He ran right by two of our players who didn't even move," he said.

Whether it was legal or not, it was a savvy move by Manning even though the Colts lost, 34-20.

[Gramz]

My answer is a hypocritical. I wouldn't want my team to give up, but I wouldn't want that done to my team. I certainly wouldn't want anyone inured whether it was done by my team or against my team.

Hypocritical..?? Maybe at least you're honest and I share these thoughts.

[oldunclemark]

You bet your caboose I'm serious. Toughness and preparation having nothing to do with this final result whatsoever. Tom Coughlin is 100% correct. Let's say the roles are reversed and Tampa has the lead and the Giants pull a juvenile stunt like this and QB Josh Freeman gets a season ending injury would Coach Shiano be happy about that. Abosolutely NOT!!! What an *!!!

"Like boxing...protect yourself at ALL times" Why even have referees, yellow flags, and penaties then? Clearly, you and I will never see eye to eye on this one oldunclemark, which is fine I guess.

I dont know if there's been a thread on this site where the opinions are so evenly divided...

and I'm as shocked by your opinion on this as you seem to be by mine...

But its all good..

The Colts kicked a field goal on their last play and won....that's all we know

[IndyTrav]

Rivers also fumbled a snap while taking a knee last year vs. the Chiefs or Raiders while trying to take a knee/set up a fg.

Kurt Warner did the same thing late in a game once.

THIS

Like I said earlier. 21pts were scored in the final 4minutes. In a game like that, you play till the clock reads 00:00.

If its 35-10 it's a different story. But it wasn't.

[FireJimCaldwell]

One thing that will be interesting is how the 32 teams treat this type of play moving forward...

[Gramz]

One thing that will be interesting is how the 32 teams treat this type of play moving forward...

Exactly.