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Mathis or Wayne?


21isSuperman

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I've been reading a lot about these two guys and their contract situations. Most people say the Colts should re-sign Wayne to keep Peyton happy. I can't determine who is more important; Wayne is Manning's first weapon and as the old saying goes, "if you have 1 good pass rusher, you have 0 good pass rushers". Who is more important? Is there a situation where we would be able to keep both? What would our salary cap space look like (assuming there is a cap in the new CBA) after we sign Peyton?

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Can't even think about this until we see what the new CBA looks like and what Manning's contract looks like. And then we can figure out what's left for everyone else. If they find a way to frontload his deal, that restricts us now but makes it easier to put other guys on backloaded deals. I think we can keep both, but if Jerry Hughes proves that he can play end in the NFL, then Mathis becomes expendable.

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Yeah, but Hughes is still an unknown in the NFL. I wouldn't be comfortable having Hughes start in place of Mathis. Excuse my ignorance, but honest question here, does it make sense to frontload one guy's deal and backload the other one? That way they don't both have huge cap hits at the same time. Is that a possible outcome? Or if next year is uncapped (depending on how it works), pay them most of their salary next year and have them have small cap hits the following years? So say both players make 90% of their total contract next year, then the rest is distributed for the next 3 or 4 years. Thank goodness I'm not an NFL GM :P

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Mathis is by far the most important of the two. Peyton makes due with whatever he is given, and WHEN Indy starts running the ball AGAIN with a purpose.... This O will be a terror, Reggie on the team or not.

Mathis is a very good player but Indy can survive without him also. At the end of this season I will not be shocked to see the Colts let them both walk. It is how they have operated for years. Indy and NE have proven that a team does not need to sign older stars to stay on top. I would give Mathis a 3 year deal MAX... Wayne, I would not even offer him more than a one year deal.

If both left via FA then I think Indy would get a couple very nice draft picks as compensation. And a lot of cheeze coming off the books.

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It's really tough, but I think Reggie. I mean Mathis has a guy who is identical to him as a backup (hopefully). Reggie is unique, one of a kind, he knows our offense the best of all the receivers in the NFL. He would make a big dent in our team. So I choose Reggie over Robert

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Are you really going to take away arguably Manning's most reliable and best weapon in Wayne? Are you going to let a star DE walk, leaving us with an unknown guy in Hughes, a guy with CFL experience but nothing in the NFL in Chick and one star DE that teams can solely focus on to neutralize your pass rush?

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I'm gonna have to go with Wayne also. If we don't have an offense we don't have a team. Our team is based around our offense, and then comes the defense. If we don't have Wayne that cuts us down to Garcon, Collie(injury prone), Gonzo, White, and possibly Tamme.

Is there a possible DE that is a FA that we could possibly go out and sign?

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Are you really going to take away arguably Manning's most reliable and best weapon in Wayne? Are you going to let a star DE walk, leaving us with an unknown guy in Hughes, a guy with CFL experience but nothing in the NFL in Chick and one star DE that teams can solely focus on to neutralize your pass rush?

Yes...

Remember when Marv went down? Remember when Clark went down last season? The only way losing Wayne would hurt Indy is if Gonzo, Garcon, and Collie can't stay healthy.

And as far as Mathis goes, If he is going to demand Freeney money and a long term contract then I think there is nothing the Colts can do but let him go. If he is willing to sign for short years at reasonable money then there is a chance he will be here. He is talking holding out until he gets a new deal. I just don't see the Colts coughing up big bucks for a 31 year old undersized DE, who has a lot of tread on the tires.

After Manning gets paid how do the Colts keep them assuming they get huge contracts and not hurt the franchise long term financially?

Tough decisions but IMO I think the two will price themselves right out of Indy.

The Colts will be fine without them regardless of how soon it happens as long as Manning is in the game.

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Yeah, but Hughes is still an unknown in the NFL. I wouldn't be comfortable having Hughes start in place of Mathis. Excuse my ignorance, but honest question here, does it make sense to frontload one guy's deal and backload the other one? That way they don't both have huge cap hits at the same time. Is that a possible outcome? Or if next year is uncapped (depending on how it works), pay them most of their salary next year and have them have small cap hits the following years? So say both players make 90% of their total contract next year, then the rest is distributed for the next 3 or 4 years. Thank goodness I'm not an NFL GM :[/b]P

Come on 21Superman you have been on the forums long enough to know that being an NFL GM is easy! There's lots of people around here who could do a great job!

As far as your( albeit somewhat depressing) question is concerned, I think it will come down to the prices that it will take to sign these guys. I could actually envision both of them leaving if the bidding gets too high.

I think we will see a decent amount of Hughes this year just so they know if Mathis is expendable or not.

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Honestly this is a really hard question because there are such concerns behind those guys.

You look behind Wayne and we are pretty thin.

Garcon: As much as love him he is pretty inconsistent and no way he is ready to step in and be a true number one.

Collie: He is an injury concern with the concussions. The questions would be can he go against the top corners and can he give us a full season.

Gonzo: He is a major injury concern.

White: He is a nice back up and no way is he ready to be anything more then that.

With Mathis we are just as thin behind him.

Hughes: Did not really show us anything last year but there is potential there.

Chick: Did not really show us much last year either, but like Hughes there is potential.

Dawson: :lol:

With Mathis there is more potential behind him with Hughes and Chick so I would probably lean towards letting him go before Wayne.

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Come on 21Superman you have been on the forums long enough to know that being an NFL GM is easy! There's lots of people around here who could do a great job!

As far as your( albeit somewhat depressing) question is concerned, I think it will come down to the prices that it will take to sign these guys. I could actually envision both of them leaving if the bidding gets too high.

I think we will see a decent amount of Hughes this year just so they know if Mathis is expendable or not.

Oh yeah, I remember everything I need to know about being a GM from Madden. Gimmie a sec, I need to call the Vikings and trade Wayne for Peterson and call the Jets and trade Mathis for Revis...problem solved, thread closed.

Like others said, it's tough because we don't have much solid depth behind the players. Our receivers are either inconsistent or injury prone and our backup DEs are mostly unproven.

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This is such a difficult question as it really depends on who steps up behind both players this year?

Keep Wayne If Hughes proves to be what most felt he would be at drafting and if Foster and Chick BOTH take the next step.

Keep Mathis If Garcon holds onto the ball and shows what most felt he should have last season plus Collie continuing to do what he does HEALTHY and Blair White showing he can replace Gonzo.

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Mathis without question. Defense wins championships, offense sells tickets. Most Colts fans that I talk to tend to favor offensive players because we have had such a high powered offense for so long. The fact of the matter is if we have just Freeney, he will be double teamed and neutralized for the most part. We need pressure from our front 4, not 1 of our front 4. I think Manning has proven that it doesn't matter who he is throwing to, we will always have a strong passing attack.

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Both of them are important to the team. But if I had to pick between Mathis or Wayne, I would have to go with Mathis. Manning has shown that he can move the offense and do well with anyone as a receiver. But If Mathis is not there to get to the quarterback then Manning won't get the ball in his hands as much so it wouldn't matter if Wayne was still with the Colts or not. Don't get me wrong I would love to see Mathis and Wayne in a Colts uniform until they retire.

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Such a hard topic.....Mathis gives that great rush on the edge and is such an underdog on the defense...A lot of teams focus on Freeney and Mathis just tears them up...

Wayne, the guy is a stud. Always ready, and is a reliable WR. Plus, he serves as a great mentor to a young WR corps. The guy is one of the best WR's in the game and has a great relationship with Manning.

I feel like the choice would have to be Wayne....Keeping him gives Manning some comfort on the offensive side of the ball. Having a reliable go to guy is important to any QB.

The Colts drafted Hughes to prep him up to take the mantle of Mathis or Freeney, he's unproven but, has potential.

*This was such a hard response*

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People talk about Wayne having a good relationship with Manning (which is true and important), but Harrison also had a great relationship with Manning and when he left, we were fine. With that said though, we had Wayne as our number 2 receiver and he was ready to step up as a number 1. I don't see any receiver on the Colts who is a number 1 right now, Collie might be in a few years, but not right now.

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Yes...

Remember when Marv went down? Remember when Clark went down last season? The only way losing Wayne would hurt Indy is if Gonzo, Garcon, and Collie can't stay healthy.

And as far as Mathis goes, If he is going to demand Freeney money and a long term contract then I think there is nothing the Colts can do but let him go. If he is willing to sign for short years at reasonable money then there is a chance he will be here. He is talking holding out until he gets a new deal. I just don't see the Colts coughing up big bucks for a 31 year old undersized DE, who has a lot of tread on the tires.

After Manning gets paid how do the Colts keep them assuming they get huge contracts and not hurt the franchise long term financially?

Tough decisions but IMO I think the two will price themselves right out of Indy.

The Colts will be fine without them regardless of how soon it happens as long as Manning is in the game.

Good points.

I agree, Mathis will price himself out of Indy. As far as Jerry Hughes is concerned....I believe the Colts saw "their guy" when they drafted him and it's just a matter of his being stuck behind two all-pro DEs as he learns. Mathis will probably play his last year as a Colt and the team will then turn Hughes loose. Hopefully, he'll be a pleasant surprise. It seems the front office has viewed the situation as worthwhile in terms of paying what is hopefully a capabale backup/starter to sit until his time has come = savings for ______ (fill in the blank) years vs. shelling out Freeney (richest D contract in history at the time) and/or Mathis money. Let's hope it works. His 2010 deal was 5yrs/9.7M...he's a FA in 2015. If he comes in and proves himself he's a bargain filling the shoes.....and will then be rewarded. That would fit Colt M.O. to a "t".

When it comes to Wayne, I think he'll be more reasonable. I realize he wanted to get an extension done but that's not how it works in Indianapolis where you're expected to play out your contract. I think his fate will be somewhat weighted depending on what the team does in the 2012 draft where I expect the Colts to take a WR higher up. We'll see. Wayne never misses games, is productive to say the least, and still has several good years ahead. I'd not be surprised to see him return as a Colt on say....a three year deal if it's priced correctly.

All of this ^ goes right along with what you're saying, ruksak, which is the team will continue to build around Manning for the next several years....just as they have for a long time.

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