Did refs cause a potential penalty they couldn't actually flag?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Scenario, Luck has us in FG range and accepts an encroachment penalty vs. the Defense. Now here is where things are murky, at least to me.

The clock is stopped. And I believe it stays stopped on D penalty, especially in last 2 minutes, yes? So, I think Luck asks if the clock will start when the ball is placed into play, to which I think the officials might have said (incorrectly?) Yes. Luck hurries anticipating the clocking rolling and clocks the ball. Problem, the clock did NOT start. Now, it is legal for a QB to stop a running clock by clocking the ball into the ground immediately. But if you do that on a stopped clocked (and why would anyone? really?) , you have A. burned a down B. committed intentional grounding. Yes, or No??

But if officials incorrectly told player the clock would run, then they caused the potential intentional grounding, yes? So can they flag that after talking a rook QB into said potential intentional grounding?

First, I feel vet leadership should have helped Luck in that scenario, so he doesn't cost us games. And I think the refs stink, saw lots of issues on DirecTV ticket in different games. I'm glad it worked out, but could have been unpleasant. Thoughts?

[deedub75]

I was at the game and I didn't understand why Luck clocked the ball. We accepted the offsides penalty and the clock was supposed to stop. I thought maybe Luck and/or the coaching staff had made a rookie mistake. It was 13 seconds on the clock and then the refs said put it to 12 seconds. I expected one more play to get a little closer but I guess with the game being tied, it was too risky with no timeouts left. It was all confusing.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I looked just the same to me on TV here in SW Florida. I expected to run one more play then run up to the ball and clock it for Adam. It was a rookie mistake on 3 parts, replacement refs, Luck, and our coaching staff; IMHO. We can discuss it but we'll never really know unless someone like Mike Pereira weighs in. Just glad it didn't cost us, would like to know what the refs told A. Luck.

[Balzer40]

Scenario, Luck has us in FG range and accepts an encroachment penalty vs. the Defense. Now here is where things are murky, at least to me.

The clock is stopped. And I believe it stays stopped on D penalty, especially in last 2 minutes, yes? So, I think Luck asks if the clock will start when the ball is placed into play, to which I think the officials might have said (incorrectly?) Yes. Luck hurries anticipating the clocking rolling and clocks the ball. Problem, the clock did NOT start. Now, it is legal for a QB to stop a running clock by clocking the ball into the ground immediately. But if you do that on a stopped clocked (and why would anyone? really?) , you have A. burned a down B. committed intentional grounding. Yes, or No??

But if officials incorrectly told player the clock would run, then they caused the potential intentional grounding, yes? So can they flag that after talking a rook QB into said potential intentional grounding?

First, I feel vet leadership should have helped Luck in that scenario, so he doesn't cost us games. And I think the refs stink, saw lots of issues on DirecTV ticket in different games. I'm glad it worked out, but could have been unpleasant. Thoughts?

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but since when is it illegal to clock the ball when the the clock is running? Teams do that every week and I've never seen it called a penalty.

[deedub75]

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but since when is it illegal to clock the ball when the the clock is running? Teams do that every week and I've never seen it called a penalty.

He said it IS legal to clock the ball when the clock is running. OP was asking why clock the ball on an already stopped clock?

[Balzer40]

He said it IS legal to clock the ball when the clock is running. OP was asking why clock the ball on an already stopped clock?

Ah, Thanks for clarifying, I completely misread that. I do think there was miscommunication somewhere, don't know who.

[deedub75]

Ah, Thanks for clarifying, I completely misread that. I do think there was miscommunication somewhere, don't know who.

No problem. I misread it the first time.

[Creekside]

I'm still confused. Why did the Colts accept the penalty? Would they not have been several yards closer if they had declined?

[ColtsBlueFL]

He said it IS legal to clock the ball when the clock is running. OP was asking why clock the ball on an already stopped clock?

Correct. On top of that, If you do clock the ball on a stopped clock, is that not approximating an intentional grounding? That was my question.

[John Waylon]

My guess is these amateur refs told him the clock would resume running. Wouldn't do any good for Pagano (Or any other non referee) to run out there and tell the refs what the right call was, they wouldn't listen anyways.

[ColtsBlueFL]

My guess is these amateur refs told him the clock would resume running. Wouldn't do any good for Pagano (Or any other non referee) to run out there and tell the refs what the right call was, they wouldn't listen anyways.

That was my thought process. So if they did, then they can't throw a flag, right? Mislead a player into a penalty? That was another of my questions.

[deedub75]

This article on espn.com says that it was a mistake for Luck to clock the ball after that penalty. I thought it was more of a rookie mistake because he rushed everyone back to the line. We may never know.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=320916011

[ColtJ82]

The refs have been particularly bad this week for some reason (across the league). The clown show has gone on long enough. Time to get the real guys back to work.

[John Waylon]

That was my thought process. So if they did, then they can't throw a flag, right? Mislead a player into a penalty? That was another of my questions.

If they had called intentional grounding on the spike, sure.

[ColtsBlueFL]

If they had called intentional grounding on the spike, sure.

I have been thinking on this some more. Spirit and intent of Grounding rule is to penalize a QB for evading a sack and losing field position by throwing the ball away to nobody while in the pocket. Clocking the ball is not trying to avoid a sack. So not penalty worthy if you do it when the clock isn't running, just kind of stupid as it burns up a down for no good reason. That, in essence, is a penalty on it's own in a sense.

[deedub75]

Isn't the ball supposed to be placed where it is spiked, not back at the original line of scrimmage? The play was so bizarre for so many reasons.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Since it is not a fumble, and it stops the clock, it should be considered an incomplete pass, re-spot at original line of scrimmage. However, it is the only time grounding is legal, so who knows what other stipulations go along with that.