Interesting take on no-huddle, Peyton-style (merge)

[BayAreaBronco]

It's a long article but if you have time, it might be of your interest. I enjoyed reading it.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/fat-camp-thoughts-on-the-no-huddle-and-balanced-offense

What do you think of some of his points on Peyton below?

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More importantly, though, it shortens the game. Manning is a QB who clearly thinks that fewer possessions in games leads to more victories. That's rare, both in terms of the innate football sense that it shows, and the willingness to sacrifice the opportunity to accumulate personal statistics, in the service of increasing the likelihood of victory.

Manning knows that his offense is usually more efficient at scoring points than that of the opposing team, so if each team has eight possessions, as opposed to 11 or 12, his more efficient unit is going to score more points than the opponent, while reducing the chances for randomness to occur in the game, and swing the result.

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You may have never noticed, but Peyton Manning-quarterbacked games are almost always over pretty quickly. Manning likes to run the ball a lot, when the box count is favorable, because it makes the clock run, and because it opens up throwing lanes - by forcing LBs and DBs to start keying the run. He truly has a head coach’s feel for total game management, and it’s never about stats or personal heroism, only about winning.

Frankly, Manning doesn’t seem to care about the entertainment value that the game holds for fans. He’s quarterbacked a lot of boring, “workmanlike” (to use a stupid sportswriter cliché) 28-13 games, in which he went 20-for-26, for 250 yards, and three TDs, and his team ran the ball as often as he threw. You know how people say a QB just wins? This QB just wins, and he makes conscious decisions that lead to that result.

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I believe that Manning is every bit as conservative-natured, and risk-averse as John Fox is, and the evidence comes from the fact that he loves to milk the play clock so much.

Both guys believe in playing a fundamentally sound game and sticking to the process, while minimizing the effects of randomness and letting the details work out favorably through repetition and proper execution. I think that Manning’s assessment of what is and is not risky doesn’t necessarily fit with coaching norms, though, and I think there will need to be a meeting in the middle between Manning and Fox on that score.

[Dan]

I can't say I agree at all with the statement that Peyton played a lot of "boring, workmanlike" games and the insinuation that Manning's playstyle betrayed the factor of "entertainment". Anybody who thinks watching Peyton Manning is boring and lacking in entertainment needs to reassess their understanding of the sport.

[21isSuperman]

20/26 for 250 yards and 3 TDs is workmanlike? That's a pretty exciting stat line to me. Only 6 incompletions and 3 TDs. Peyton has always been "workmanlike". It is well documented that he always does as much work as he can to make his performance on Sunday the best it can be.

[RGIII]

I can't say I agree at all with the statement that Peyton played a lot of "boring, workmanlike" games and the insinuation that Manning's playstyle betrayed the factor of "entertainment". Anybody who thinks watching Peyton Manning is boring and lacking in entertainment needs to reassess their understanding of the sport.

I've heard some very football knowledgeable people express similar sentiments in the past and, honestly, I can understand it (although I, personally, always enjoy watching Peyton play). He's so mechanical, methodical, and consistent as a QB that, in certain games, there's substantially less of the volatility that makes games so exciting. This is especially true when the opposing team doesn't have enough firepower to keep up.

Besides which, different people like to watch different styles of play. Understanding of the game doesn't necessarily have any bearing on that whatsoever, although it does tend to influence who you are forced to respect in spite of your preferences (*cough*Tom Brady*cough*).

[oldunclemark]

20/26 for 250 yards and 3 TDs is workmanlike? That's a pretty exciting stat line to me. Only 6 incompletions and 3 TDs. Peyton has always been "workmanlike". It is well documented that he always does as much work as he can to make his performance on Sunday the best it can be.

The no-huddle....with Peyton battling Troy P. of the Steelers.....in the 2nd half....

....that's classic stuff......I dont know if everybidy ses that......

....but Manning has you guessing with him..and against him.....

I can see in the 'age of Vick and Cam' where Manning might seem boring, though..short passes...long counts

[BayAreaBronco]

I guess I excerpt the wrong sections perhaps. I think the author was trying to hammer home the idea that Peyton's conservative nature by using expression like "boring, workman-like" but he doesn't think it's a bad thing as he says "The objective of football games is to win, and I’ve never seen another QB who understands that so deeply, and who does so many subtle things to promote victory as Peyton Manning."

I found this point interesting: "Manning is a QB who clearly thinks that fewer possessions in games leads to more victories. Manning knows that his offense is usually more efficient at scoring points than that of the opposing team, so if each team has eight possessions, as opposed to 11 or 12, his more efficient unit is going to score more points than the opponent, while reducing the chances for randomness to occur in the game, and swing the result."

[21isSuperman]

The no-huddle....with Peyton battling Troy P. of the Steelers.....in the 2nd half....

....that's classic stuff......I dont know if everybidy ses that......

....but Manning has you guessing with him..and against him.....

I can see in the 'age of Vick and Cam' where Manning might seem boring, though..short passes...long counts

That was so fun to watch. Polamalu would try to do his Superman dive while Peyton would keep an eye on him to see what he does. That was a fun back and forth battle to watch

[bayone]

Broncos QB Peyton Manning's use of no-huddle attack replicated by Falcons' Matt Ryan

Peyton Manning never directly taught Matt Ryan how to operate the no-huddle.

Check that. Check. Check.

Thanks to television and video equipment, Manning has been a mentor whether he knows it or not.

"He kind of set the benchmark for quarterbacks playing in that no-huddle system really in the modern era," Ryan said during a conference call with Denver media Thursday. "If you're not looking to see how he does it and to see some of the things he does in it, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage."

"I think every quarterback in the league will tell you that at some point or another they've watched what Peyton's doing to try and learn from it and take some of the things that he does and apply it to what they do," Ryan said.

Ryan is now in his fifth NFL season and when experience is added to the inborn characteristics of poise and smarts, such a quarterback would be wasting his qualities if he wasn't orchestrating the no-huddle.

"It's such a copycat league," said Broncos defensive tackle Justin Bannan. "They see the brilliant quarterbacks do it & have success, why not do it with our quarterbacks?"

Read more:Broncos QB Peyton Manning's use of no-huddle attack replicated by Falcons' Matt Ryan - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpos...n#ixzz26Rclqbp6

[ColtsBlueFL]

That was so fun to watch. Polamalu would try to do his Superman dive while Peyton would keep an eye on him to see what he does. That was a fun back and forth battle to watch

That was so interesting. They played it to a hands on hips stalemate, then Troy finally won. Peyton burned a Timeout, and then I think got a delay of game coming out of the timeout. But Peyton rarely loses those battles.

[jaywhy]

I enjoy watching Peyton play especially in 3rd down situations. His knowledge really comes through when he can change a play according to what the defense shows and he picks out the weakness and picks up the 1st down. either a long or short pass.

I thought he would pick the Broncos because their offensive line blocked well for their QBs last season. If they continue blocking the way they are doing now, look Denver to be in the playoffs.

[bayone]

I guess I excerpt the wrong sections perhaps. I think the author was trying to hammer home the idea that Peyton's conservative nature by using expression like "boring, workman-like" but he doesn't think it's a bad thing as he says "The objective of football games is to win, and I’ve never seen another QB who understands that so deeply, and who does so many subtle things to promote victory as Peyton Manning."

I found this point interesting: "Manning is a QB who clearly thinks that fewer possessions in games leads to more victories. Manning knows that his offense is usually more efficient at scoring points than that of the opposing team, so if each team has eight possessions, as opposed to 11 or 12, his more efficient unit is going to score more points than the opponent, while reducing the chances for randomness to occur in the game, and swing the result."

AS a Colt he routinely had less Offensive drives than other QB's over the course of a year but that wasn't by design, that was by lack of getting opposing team off the field using up the clock and Peyton without a return game when u had old kickoff rules and lack of a good punt returner routinely had to do 80 yard drives and overcome offensive penalties so really drives were even longer so he used time up in a long multiply drive, simply wasnt enough possessions to go around & Peyton routinely started with bad field position or just the 20 even with a returner trying

This statement from article is true

1. The no-huddle offense is not the same thing as the hurry-up offense. Going without a huddle allows an offense to snap the ball quickly, but it doesn’t require it to do so. When an offense plays hurry-up, it will usually go without a huddle, but going without a huddle gives the QB wide latitude on when to snap the ball. Peyton Manning often waits until the play clock runs down, and I’ll explain why shortly.

HOWEVER MAY I SAY

& when Peyton played a game with the intent of the opposite, that is a true no huddle hurry up, they called it the BLAZE OFFENSE as thats all he did 1 game and was just an incredible thing to watch, they said he took it to an entirely new level then

another 2 Comment goes against Fox & his 2 man power back formation

One thing that is helpful toward being effective in no-huddle is having a good third receiver, and a good second tight end. When you can play in 12 personnel (1 RB, 2 TE, 2 WR), you force the defense to make a choice that is going to be wrong no matter what – do we play base, or do we play nickel?

In 11 personnel (1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR), the defense is usually going to play nickel, and the benefit there is that on most teams, the fifth DB is a lesser player than the starting LB or DL who he replaces. You’re forcing the defense not to play its best 11 players, and that works to the advantage of the offense.

[bayone]

The no-huddle....with Peyton battling Troy P. of the Steelers.....in the 2nd half....

....that's classic stuff......I dont know if everybidy ses that......

....but Manning has you guessing with him..and against him.....

I can see in the 'age of Vick and Cam' where Manning might seem boring, though..short passes...long counts

& 21issuper said that I agree with

That was so fun to watch. Polamalu would try to do his Superman dive while Peyton would keep an eye on him to see what he does. That was a fun back and forth battle to watch

Colts blue answered 21isSuper with this

That was so interesting. They played it to a hands on hips stalemate, then Troy finally won. Peyton burned a Timeout, and then I think got a delay of game coming out of the timeout. But Peyton rarely loses those battles.

Re Vs Troy

How did troy win , he lined up left and blitzed and won early, then when tried it again Peyton saw and thats the audible to DT to the house

also pending wherever Troy lined up , deep or up close Peyton new whether Pass or run so he won that battle to, part of that was having the player out , Brain Freeze , that had sickle cell trait who would normally cover behind Troy letting him play & roam n more freely

Thats Peytons art exploiting the D weakness esp when there is a player out & a sub in

[oldunclemark]

You'd never hear Jay Cutler says this...

This tells me that Ryan isnt an ego-manic who thinks he's 'Football jeseus' just because he's had success early in his career...

I would bet that Eli studies tapes of Peyton.....

[bayone]

You'd never hear Jay Cutler says this...

This tells me that Ryan isnt an ego-manic who thinks he's 'Football jeseus' just because he's had success early in his career...

I would bet that Eli studies tapes of Peyton.....

I once heard Peyton Say, this was years ago, that Matt Ryan was the best Young QB in NFL

[FireJimCaldwell]

Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson once drove to Indy on their bye week and sat in the stands to watch how Peyton & Marvin interacted pre-game, on the field, sideline.

[bayone]

Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson once drove to Indy on their bye week and sat in the stands to watch how Peyton & Marvin interacted pre-game, on the field, sideline.

Yup, The Edge game them tickets

[oldunclemark]

I can see Andrew, RG3 and the poor kikd who got lost under the American flag last week renting an SUV and making a vacation stop in Denver next summer

[MAC]

Yup, The Edge game them tickets

I guess Bono was too busy.

[bayone]

I can see Andrew, RG3 and the poor kikd who got lost under the American flag last week renting an SUV and making a vacation stop in Denver next summer

he should have stayed there, he would have played better

[chad72]

Did other defenses also study the "faking an injury that can stop the no huddle offense" perfected by Belichick?

[bayone]

Did other defenses also study the "faking an injury that can stop the no huddle offense" perfected by Belichick?

Great Line & how I remember many of them , or at least apparent fakes, u never can say 100% but sure seemed it happened to often while moving down field and usually near or in redzone if remember right

[chad72]

Great Line & how I remember many of them , or at least apparent fakes, u never can say 100% but sure seemed it happened to often while moving down field and usually near or in redzone if remember right

Edgerrin James' stop on 4th & 1 came after Willie McGinnest's injury fake (though he and Pats fans can deny it 1000 times)

Tracy Porter's pick six in the SB came after Anthony Hargrove's injury fake after the play before (I know it was faked because Hargrove looked able and healthy enough to spear a Joseph Addai in the back after Addai went down earning a 15 yard penalty on the next drive).

[bayone]

Edgerrin James' stop on 4th & 1 came after Willie McGinnest's injury fake (though he and Pats fans can deny it 1000 times)

Tracy Porter's pick six in the SB came after Anthony Hargrove's injury fake after the play before (I know it was faked because Hargrove looked able and healthy enough to spear a Joseph Addai in the back after Addai went down earning a 15 yard penalty on the next drive).

The Edge Stung and Peyton blamed himself for not going to a pass

Forgot about the Saints one

But yeah I do remember how generally as a rule these players only stayed out the required 1 down even if seemed injured forever on the turf & helped to the side

[ColtsBlueFL]

& 21issuper said that I agree with

Colts blue answered 21isSuper with this

Re Vs Troy

How did troy win , he lined up left and blitzed and won early, then when tried it again Peyton saw and thats the audible to DT to the house

also pending wherever Troy lined up , deep or up close Peyton new whether Pass or run so he won that battle to, part of that was having the player out , Brain Freeze , that had sickle cell trait who would normally cover behind Troy letting him play & roam n more freely

Thats Peytons art exploiting the D weakness esp when there is a player out & a sub in

Peyton won most of the battles. But not the one (IMHO) where they were deep in Steeler Redzone territory, like 3rd and two. Peyton gets under center, Troy runs up to the line to time snap and dive over and stop run... Peyton backs out off center. Troy backs up back into the secondary... Peyton calls run play again and lines up under center, Troy runs from secondary back up to the line again. Peyton backs out once more and then he and Troy are standing there with hands on hips staring at each other. Since play clock is almost gone, Peyton now burns a timeout.

Now I'm a little fuzzy, but I think coming out of timeout, the Steelers move around in a confusing defensive set and Peyton gets a Delay of Game penalty, after burning a timeout. Eventually they get to the 8 and have to kick a field goal. No TD. now, I had a couple cold ones, but I'm pretty sure that is how I remember it. I thought, well Troy finally won one back I guess; since it burned a TO, caused a delay and -5 yards, and ultimately ended up only as a FG.

Otherwise, Peyton read LeBeau and Polumalu like a worn out book.

[bayone]

Peyton won most of the battles. But not the one (IMHO) where they were deep in Steeler Redzone territory, like 3rd and two. Peyton gets under center, Troy runs up to the line to time snap and dive over and stop run... Peyton backs out off center. Troy backs up back into the secondary... Peyton calls run play again and lines up under center, Troy runs from secondary back up to the line again. Peyton backs out once more and then he and Troy are standing there with hands on hips staring at each other. Since play clock is almost gone, Peyton now burns a timeout.

Now I'm a little fuzzy, but I think coming out of timeout, the Steelers move around in a confusing defensive set and Peyton gets a Delay of Game penalty, after burning a timeout. Eventually they get to the 8 and have to kick a field goal. No TD. now, I had a couple cold ones, but I'm pretty sure that is how I remember it. I thought, well Troy finally won one back I guess; since it burned a TO, caused a delay and -5 yards, and ultimately ended up only as a FG.

Otherwise, Peyton read LeBeau and Polumalu like a worn out book.

Yes I do remember that but on a whole & I guess its how u evaluate that in ones mind I'd give it to Peyton, The TD, and the drives for TD's and that FG all orchestrated with help of reading troy,

yes 2 early blitzes that occurred when Peyton was rained in and not allowed to do the noi hudlle, ,

and that ending u sited that prevented a TD and settled for a FG, but Broncos wouldnt of been in that position without Peyton reading Troy

We are all allowed our opinions and each can give worth to what they feel in the overall scheme of things is important , I respect how u feel , just dont see it that way

Enjoy Monday night

[ColtsBlueFL]

Yes I do remember that but on a whole & I guess its how u evaluate that in ones mind I'd give it to Peyton, The TD, and the drives for TD's and that FG all orchestrated with help of reading troy,

yes 2 early blitzes that occurred when Peyton was rained in and not allowed to do the noi hudlle, ,

and that ending u sited that prevented a TD and settled for a FG, but Broncos wouldnt of been in that position without Peyton reading Troy

We are all allowed our opinions and each can give worth to what they feel in the overall scheme of things is important , I respect how u feel , just dont see it that way

Enjoy Monday night

I understand where you are coming from. If it is body of work, no contest, despite the early blitzes. But when Peyton is deep in your redzone, and you A. get him to take a timeout, B. then back them up another 5 yards on a delay of game penalty, and finally C. keep them out of the end zone and force as FG; then yes. I say that's a victory for the other side. I was hoping for a nice fade TD pass or something, but... just didn't happen that drive.

I hope Peyton and the Bronc's win again vs. Falcons, but it will be a another tough contest methinks.

[bayone]

I understand where you are coming from. If it is body of work, no contest, despite the early blitzes. But when Peyton is deep in your redzone, and you A. get him to take a timeout, B. then back them up another 5 yards on a delay of game penalty, and finally C. keep them out of the end zone and force as FG; then yes. I say that's a victory for the other side. I was hoping for a nice fade TD pass or something, but... just didn't happen that drive.

I hope Peyton and the Bronc's win again vs. Falcons, but it will be a another tough contest methinks.

Understand where u r coming from and that last 1 as said before, yes troy won that 1 but still Manning read him to get that far

STILL, a TD really would done much more damage and the score differential then would of put more pressure on Steelers as opposed to just a FG

I Know we can totally agree on that 1

Have a great night

Barry

[21isSuperman]

That was so interesting. They played it to a hands on hips stalemate, then Troy finally won. Peyton burned a Timeout, and then I think got a delay of game coming out of the timeout. But Peyton rarely loses those battles.

I think Peyton called a timeout, but I wouldn't say Troy won. Troy wanted to dive over the linemen and make one of his Superman tackles, but Peyton prevented that. Peyton was forced to use a timeout, but it's better to take a timeout than let Troy make one of those plays and possibly cause a turnover.

[21isSuperman]

To me, Matt Ryan is like a younger Peyton. Good player, good receivers, good running game, good regular season stats, little post-season success so far. The entire Atlanta organization reminds me of the Colts

[shakedownstreet]

Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson once drove to Indy on their bye week and sat in the stands to watch how Peyton & Marvin interacted pre-game, on the field, sideline.

too bad for them they just ended up being palmer & ocho johnson, weanwhile peyton & marvin turned out to be peyton & marvin

[ColtsBlueFL]

I think Peyton called a timeout, but I wouldn't say Troy won. Troy wanted to dive over the linemen and make one of his Superman tackles, but Peyton prevented that. Peyton was forced to use a timeout, but it's better to take a timeout than let Troy make one of those plays and possibly cause a turnover.

Yes, a timeout gives a chance to call a play to get 1st down or in the endzone. But a 5 yd delay coming out was big no no. Then FG anyway. Id Broncos TD, Troy lost. Id Broncos FG, troy won. If Broncos turnover the ball... major Troy/Steelers win. Once Manning was in a zone, it was the only drive he did not finish with a TD, Yes?