hockey878
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Posts posted by hockey878
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Someone on ESPN was saying (i think mort) that he feels for someone to trade up to #1 it would take 3 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks..
I'll take that in a hurry.
Browns 2012 1st rounders and 2nd
browns 2013 1st rounder and 2nd
next two superbowl trophy's will go to indy!
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I dont understand how people can say Luck is a better prospect than RG3. I just dont see it to me hes the most NFL ready but RG3 has a higher ceiling. His running ability his deep ball accuracy is ridiculous and he would benefit a lot more sitting behind Peyton than Luck will.
^^^^^^^this
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id rather have russell wilson than kellen moore...
.but all seriousness i think we will take a QB before it gets that far. And i dont think either wilson or moore will have much NFL success
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Trade down this year, pick up another 1st rounder next year, then use both first rounders next year to trade up for Barkley. Easy as pie. ;)
yep. thats what i was referring to in my previous post. Or Tyler Wilson or Tyler Bray, depending on what we see from them next year
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Like others have said. trade down. along with many other picks acquire a 1st rounder next year. Next years class will now include Tyler Bray, Tyler Wilson and Matt Barkley.
At that point it will only be 3 years behind manning before his contract is up.
Use this season to put players in place so that when we make the transition from manning to QB X we have an actual TEAM ready to support him.
Drafting luck and holding on to manning does not help us for the future. It puts luck in the same situation as manning was in his whole career. A great QB with not the greatest supporting cast. And unless luck is better than manning there wont be that much to be happy about other than a lot of 9-7 or 10-6 mediocre seasons.
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i guess im more referring to the coltsblue
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Knowing little about RG3, I find myself being inclined to put him (as a passer) in the Graham Harrell/Colt Brennan/spread offense mold. Is that a fair comparison?
I can see why you would want to make that comparison. I think RG3 has a much much stronger arm than either of those guys. Also, a lot less talent to work with than graham harrell had, while playing better opponents than colt did.
He has a quick release, he has shown tremendous accuracy this year as well as tremendous decision making. To me I understand why someone might lean towards that type of comparison, but I dont think thats an accurate one.
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As an "athletic, running QB", he also brings the added dimension (RGIII) of missing half of every season, as Vick does....Vick has played ONE full season, since his rookie year. Give me the great pocket passer, ala Brady and Manning over the "ability to extend the play" ala Vick and Roethlisberger every day of the week...especially on Sundays!
once again, you fail to make the most logical/accurate comparison to the way RG3 plays the game which is more like rodgers. Am I saying he will be as a good as rodgers? Maybe. I think he could be. I think he could be better. That is to be determined.
But seriously how many Baylor games did you watch? Comparing him to vick is way off because he is a much better passer than vick ever even dreamed of.
Comparing him to ben is also way off because he is much more mobile, athletic and frankly has a better feel for when he needs to get rid of the ball then ben.
People keep saying they dont want a guy who is athletic like its a bad thing. Its an added dimension. Not the main part of his game. Imagine how good peyton would be if he could scramble for 12-15 yards 1-2 times a game.
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Sometimes I wonder how many of you have actually watched Robert Griffin play....
As for his height. hes listed at 6-2. (same height as rodgers) I dont see that being too big of a problem. During the heisman presentation he was about 2 maybe 2.5 inches shorter than luck who is listed at 6-4. So that likely puts him no shorter that 6-1.5
Height isnt a huge concern.
He is not a "running qb" he is a pocket passer who can run. He plays like aaron rodgers on steroids, he can run. There are times he will run, but that isnt what he wants to do. It is a last resort. Not to mentino he has a Stronger arm and is a way better athlete. If he can put the rest of his game together he will be a stud.
Which is exaclty why the colts should draft him and let him sit for 2-3 years. Let him work on taking snaps from under center, his footwork, let him watch and learn from peyton. He has unbelievable upside.
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That is true if only one other team wants the pick. If more than one team wants the pick, we still have leverage through demand.
True. But if that isnt the case, you might as well build a long history of saying that you dont really want to trade it. Then at some point closer to draft time they can say "we really like what the number 1 pick has to offer, but we want to keep as many doors open as possible." or something like that obviously.
anyway i think we are both in agreement.
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While polian may be speaking the truth I hope you guys realize that he really HAS to say that.
Over the next few months we have to make everyone believe that we want luck really bad (whether we do or not is another story), because if we make it seem like we dont really want him or WANT to trade down then we lose leverage and get less value.
If polian flat out says yea we dont want the 1st overall pick then the team we try to trade with has more leverage than us.
Again, not saying that we dont keep the first pick. Just saying polian has to make it seem like we are keeping.
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Okay. I think taking advice from someone who spells their name with extra n's and z's makes much more sense. You must be very proud to be credible and the foremost authority of accurate information because for instance, you can't even spell 'skins' correctly.
sweet joke farva
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and robert griffin isnt a running QB.... I dont understand why this is a debate right now. Can he run? yes. so can aaron rodgers. That doesnt make him a running quarterback though
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Agreed. And I posted this over in the main forum but if we end up not selecting Luck then that means the three teams that need quarterbacks the most (Miami, Washington, Seattle) will each get their pick of the the top three names (Luck, Griffin III, and Barkley). Assuming that all declare for the draft that is. This would greatly minimize their likelihood of "trading a boat load of picks" for Luck. We would be better served to draft Luck and then trade for picks/players to keep him off the board and put the squeeze on those teams that need a quarterback as somebody will be left without a new player behind center.
Thats basically the same thing as trading him before you pick him. You just tell all the teams before the draft that you are either going to draft luck or trade the pick.
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I understand the OP wants the Browns for 2 reasons - they have 2 first round picks that might be low enough to work with the trade value and two, they perenially suck so they would satisfy our evergrowing utopia of stockpiling high picks for the future
. The Bengals and Patriots also have 2 first round picks.Browns need a RB badly if Peyton Hillis leaves and maybe WR or LB early. So, by standing where they are, they are more likely to fill it with quality players for building their team. Also, if they could trade down and trade Julio Jones to Atlanta in 2011 when they could have taken him, and if they could trade out of their No.5 spot to the Jets for Mark Sanchez in 2009, they are more likely to trade down than trade up, if history with Mike Holmgren is any indication. This implies that Mike Holmgren understands that his team needs several pieces and not just 1 piece he can obtain by trading up. This is the draft where they stand to cash in their picks they have accumulated by standing pat and picking the several pieces. Besides, they waited till round 3 to nab McCoy, they can definitely wait till later in round 1 to nab a QB like Landry Jones or Ryan Tannehill should they drop to their later round 1 pick or early round 2 pick.
That is my take on it. So, given the history of the Browns I just stated, and given the history of the Colts to not trade out of their high first round picks in the Polian era (anything in the top 11 - we stood pat and got Peyton at No.1, Edge at No.4 and Freeney at No.11), trading down with the Browns is not going to happen.
probably true. I myself am skeptical that it would actually happen. I just think this would be the ideal situation for us.
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Oh ok. yea i definitely agree with 4 being too much. although if they wanted to give us them i certainly would say no!!
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A few comments.
Cleveland may not be a super talented team, but they are certainly more talented than the 2011 indianapolis colts.
The colts are getting 3 1st round picks in that trade, not 4. I said:
Colts get
2 2012 1st round picks
1 2012 3rd round pick
1 2013 1st round pick
1 2013 3rd round pick.
Its possible you misunderstood me. I said that if peyton wasnt able to play then presumably in 2013 we could have two top 10 picks (ours and the browns)
As for the that maybe being too much, that lines up almost perfectly with the trade value chart. and again, that doesnt even include the fact that with luck being so highly thought of we could squeeze em for maybe a bit more than what it would normally be worth.
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Based on this trade value chart for the nfl draft http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php
we could realistically trade down with the browns and acquire at MINIMUM
Their two 2012 1st round picks (we'll say #10 and #20)
2012 3rd round pick (#74)
2013 1st round pick
2013 3rd round pick
And thats not considering that the number 1 prospect being andrew luck we could maybe squeeze a bit more out of them. Maybe a 2013 2nd rounder instead of 3.
In this scenario we could:
#10 Claiborne
#20 Brandon Thompson
#33 Nick Toon or Kendall Wright
Plus we have #65 and 74 in round 3.
On top of that, we will likely have a top 10 pick next year. To me this is the way to go. Andrew luck is great, but there is no way he comes in and instantly turns this team around. There isnt enough talent, we need to retool before we can draft a QB. If you get all these extra picks there is a good chance at least 2 or 3 will be big impact players. Then I would like us to draft either Tyler Wilson or Bray next year. They can learn from peyton for 3 years and take over the reigns.
If peyton cant play this coming year. Well, then we have TWO top 10 picks with one likely being number 1 overall. And then we are in GREAT shape to totally rebuild the team in just two years.
Now, if we draft luck and he busts. Or even is good, but just not good enough to carry a whole NFL team. Then we find ourselves in a big big hole for the next 5 years.
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I know they're having great college careers and great numbers.... but especially with WRs we've seen them move on to the NFL against bigger, faster more talented DBs and struggle at the pro level. Especially Steve Spurrier's WRs.
We really gotta be careful with college stats.
So far.... it looks like Green and Jones have translated their speed, size, hands and route-running very well as rookies.
Between Blackmon and Jeffrey.... I think Blackmon is better.
We'll see.... but I'd be extremely concerned if the Colts HAD to make a selection at #1 overall without Luck in the draft and no trade-down partner, and selected either of these guys.
I think even if luck doesnt enter we can find a trade down partner. Teams are always looking to pick up the best QB available and its likely that jones or barkley would suddenly become hot commodities (though not as hot as luck). I think we will have no problems trading out of the number 1 pick when the time comes because of the new cap rules. How much we can get is dependent on who is available.
I also agree that blackmon is better than jeffery. Statistics aside (i know they are inflated because of the spread) this guys is a beast. He is better than Dez Bryant, runs better routes and is just as physical. The only thing that concerns me is he tends to fumble around the goalline, but that is extremely correctable. In any case, he is the type of receiver that the colts have never had but could definitely use.
He is like pierre garcon 5.0. He is everything pierre could be but probably never will be.
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if you have the number 1 pick and luck goes back to college you have to find a way to get a #1 next year from a bad team and hope it ends up as the 1st overall. A team like the rams who already have a QB would be a target.
How great would it be if we could trade down get a 1st (5-10) a 2nd and a 4th this year. Plus a number 1 next year and maybe even more. Especially if we could be lucky enough to have that #1 be the first pick in 2012 and end up with luck next year.
Even if we didnt we would likely have a top 10 pick and having a top 10 pick two years in a row would go a long way for a team that lacks top tier talent.
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its says this month not necessarily this week! But cool.
Here is irsays exact tweet.
"The mystical,reclusive,fantastic Mr. Marvin Harrison will return 2 town this month 2 stroll the fields of Lucas! #18 may even chuck1 2him!"
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hooray for kicking field goals with the ball on the 3 yard line down 20-0 with a record of 0-7. Caldwell, you suck.
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Why do people blame caldwell? Where to start.... Its pretty simple.
Obviously, coaching isnt entirely responsible for the failures of this team. But think about the colts golden years all the different things coaches would throw at us to try and win, when they knew they were huge underdogs. But they adjusted, and gameplanned accordingly. something our coaches dont do.
Things like:
-onside kicks (after halftime, or right after the TD before the half)
-Trick plays or any new wrinkles to the offense. be creative. we dont have peyton. we can be vanilla and win. adjust!
-Going for it on 4th down once in a while.
- Defense needs to take some risks. id rather give up a few deep balls and have a few shots at turnovers/sacks etc than let them complete 8-12 button hooks all the way down the field. Again, no peyton. We cant count on LETTING them score 24 knowing we will get 28. Yes, we may give up more by blitzing and taking risks. But at least there is a scenario where, on the right day we could get enough lucky bounces to win a game. Sitting and letting teams trample us waiting for them to mess up is a bad strategy when we have peyton. But it is NEVER gonna work without him.
You cant continue to play the way we did when we had peyton. things are not the same without him. you have to do things you normally wouldnt if we want to win.
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Pull off some big plays. Obviously, coaching isnt entirely responsible for the failures of this team. But think about the colts golden years all the different things coaches would throw at us to try and win, when they knew they were huge underdogs. But they adjusted, and gameplanned accordingly. something our coaches dont do.
Things like:
-onside kicks (after halftime, or right after the TD before the half)
-Trick plays or any new wrinkles to the offense. be creative. we dont have peyton. we can be vanilla and win. adjust!
-Going for it on 4th down once in a while.
- Defense needs to take some risks. id rather give up a few deep balls and have a few shots at turnovers/sacks etc than let them complete 8-12 button hooks all the way down the field. Again, no peyton. We cant count on LETTING them score 24 knowing we will get 28. Yes, we may give up more by blitzing and taking risks. But at least there is a scenario where, on the right day we could get enough lucky bounces to win a game. Sitting and letting teams trample us waiting for them to mess up is a bad strategy when we have peyton. But it is NEVER gonna work without him.
You cant continue to play the way we did when we had peyton. things are not the same without him. you have to do things you normally wouldnt if we want to win.
Thoughts?
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. The Bengals and Patriots also have 2 first round picks.
What Is Our #1 Overall Pick Worth?
in NFL Draft, Scouting, and Free Agent Talk
Posted
On ESPN (granted its ESPN, but I think it was from mort) that he thinks it would be worth 3 1sts and 2 2nds. That means
Browns top 10 pick
Browns 22ish pick
colts pick 33
browns pick (38-43)
colts pick 65
plus the rest of the rounds
2013
browns pick (probably top 10)
colts pick (26-32)
browns pick (lets say 42)
that, to me, seems worth it. We get a chance to get a LOT of good/great players out of that. It also gives us an opportunity to rebuild quickly as we have a lot of players/positions we need to replace talent.
Think, in the near future we absolutely need a Center, 2 DE's (most likely), 1-2 WR (depending on garcon), 1-2CB, S and probably a guard or two. Not to mention more for other players that will be leaving. And players for depth.
This team has many needs, not just a qb for the future.