Superman
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8 minutes ago, dw49 said:
Yes , the player would sue for monetary damages , not to stay on the roster. If a player had played well and was on his original contract and was cut following an unfounded (something he was cleared of) incident , I think it could get challenged. It has been litigated a bit in a few cases but obviously it's a tough one to prove.
Yeah, a player could file suit. My point is I don't think it would go anywhere because the suit would have no standing.
I understand that a person might choose to settle a seemingly frivolous lawsuit for pragmatic reasons. I don't think the NFL or any individual team would respond that way. Based on my very limited understanding, there is no standing for a player to bring suit against a team if the team released the player during a legal issue, even if the player was completely exonerated.
In your other example, there are other considerations, like discrimination. That would be a different story, but it doesn't seem relevant to this discussion.
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4 minutes ago, stitches said:
True, I didn't even consider the possible inclusion of 3-4DEs... or 3-4 OLBs? I don't know how they designate them. I can see them actually putting a 3-4DE as an interior player while the 3-4OLBs would be designated as DEs...
I don't know... For example, here's Dallas Turner and he's designated as a DE:
BTW... look at that arm length for Dallas Turner. IMO it's not out of the question that Ballard might see him as a RDE(What Gus Bradley and the traditional Seahawks type scheme calls LEO). Think Kemoko Turay type... Think Ngakoue... We have Ebukam playing that role now, but if Ballard wants a more dominant player Turner actually looks to me like reasonable approximation to that type of player that you can line up wiiiiiide wide out in 2 point stance... and just let him go berserk 1-on-1 vs OT.
In fact... looking at his testing... the more I think about it the more I feel like he's a prime candidate for us to take at 15(if he's there), even though he doesn't look like the prototypical Ballard DE. IMO that's mainly because those LEO types are not very common and we have so far addressed that position mainly via FA(Ebukam, Ngakoue)... and before that Ballard actually used a second round picks on Turay and Banogu, both of whom were supposed to be that type of player... and both of them were players at about the same size as Turner. 6'3 250 for Banogu, 6'4" 253 for Turay... and both of them had length... (33.5+" arms)...
IMO if Bowers is gone... Turner is more likely pick than any of the DEs at 15...
I watched some of Turner, he was almost always in a two point stance, and has little to no pass rush moves. It's just speed and some bend to beat blockers, but once they engage with him, he's mostly losing the rep. And he's not very good against the run.
I don't mind having a hybrid pass rusher with freakish traits, but I don't think he fits what the Colts want at DE as a player. Ngakoue was a productive pass rusher, and they let him walk after one year. Ebukam is better against the run.
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12 minutes ago, dw49 said:
Not sure that's completely true. There have been litigations that were at least started against teams for cuts that were said not to be football related . Josh Lamb would be one and Chris Klue would be another. Neither amounted to much . I'm not an attorney and perhaps I over stated my feelings . But I think I'l nitpick , as you often do and call you out on that "blanket " statement you made .
I don't know how a player files against a team for releasing him, unless the team is accusing the player of some kind of violation. And that would be a tricky situation, which could include a lot of variables. Generally speaking, a team does not have to provide a reason for releasing a player. The team might be contractually obligated to pay the player, but that doesn't mean they have to keep the player on the roster.
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On 3/1/2024 at 11:47 PM, stitches said:
Oh you mean the weight itself. For Latu it's 258 and it's 4.45. Which means he's in the 45th percentile of all DEs who've tested... which is... average-ish. I wouldn't call it poor, it's just weird designation for simplicity sake I would guess... everything below average(which this technically is - barely below average) just shows as red(poor). Maybe they can adjust their designations a bit to better represent the scores. Don't pay too much attention to the color and designation itself. Look at the number and percentile of athlete it shows the player to be.
Oh, that could be a blind spot at DE, especially if they're including 3-4 DEs.
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8 minutes ago, Hoose said:
That’s exoneration for Ogletree.
Based on some of the stuff I'm reading, it seems as close to exoneration as anyone could expect. It sounds like the full investigation uncovered evidence that was not initially considered. And it doesn't sound like the accuser suddenly decided to stop cooperating with the investigation.
I won't pretend to know what happened, and I'm not passing judgment on anyone involved. But for Ogletree, this outcome is about the best he could have hoped for, from a legal standpoint and probably from a career standpoint.
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No adverse action will be taken against Ogletree, as the dismissals are unconditional.
In the state's motion to dismiss, prosecutors wrote that "subsequent interviews with all of the parties involved revealed information and evidence not provided to law enforcement on the night of the alleged incident. The evidence is insufficient to prosecute this case."
In another tweet, Holder says the dismissal wasn't the result of a lack of cooperation, but from further investigation.
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3 minutes ago, stitches said:
31" for Mitchell... 31 5/8" for Arnold. What do you make of Arnold's lack of elite speed? He doesn't look super fast on tape but I still thought he would be able to go in the 4.4s
It's interesting that from all the CBs projected as 1st rounders only Kool-Aid McKinstry measured at 32" or above. Ennis Rakestraw measured at 32" too but I personally don't see him as a 1st rounder.
I thought Arnold would be 4.45-4.5, so pretty close. I think he's really instinctual and positions himself well, and he can contest at the high point. I really like him, but never thought he fit Ballard's profile. I really like Mitchell also, he seems longer to me...
There are a lot of later round guys with longer arms, but it looks like a lot of them project as safeties in the NFL.
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Mod note: The last thread on this topic was locked because the discussion veered way off course. Please respect the site rules, and one another.
QuoteINDIANAPOLIS — The domestic battery charges against Indianapolis Colts Tight End Andrew Ogletree have been dismissed, according to court documents filed on Tuesday in Hendricks County.
According to previous reports, Ogletree faced two felony charges, including one count of domestic battery committed in the presence of a child less than 16 years old, a Level 6 felony, and one count of domestic battery resulting in moderate bodily injury, a Level 6 felony.
Both charges, according to court documents, were “dismissed with prejudice” on Tuesday. According to the Legal Information Institute at the Cornell Law School, dismissal with prejudice means that the plaintiff cannot refile the same claim again in a specific court.
It will be interesting to see how the NFL handles this moving forward, and what the Colts choose to do. Right now, Ogletree is on the exempt list. I would assume the NFL will go over whatever information is available to them, and decide whether any suspension is warranted. But 'dismissed with prejudice' might mean that there is no case to be made.
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6 minutes ago, stitches said:
If I told you Arnold measured longer than Mitchell would that surprise you?
I looked them up, did I have them backward?
Edit: I guess I got mixed up on Mitchell. I thought he had 33" arms.
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4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:
Hey! I’ve been driving mostly Corolla’s for years. They’re reliable and dependable. My current is a hybrid and I’m getting 52 miles per gallon! A little respect please!
Whoops! My bad...
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2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:
Finding someone better than MPJ isn't easy
I don't think it's that hard. The question is how much you're willing to pay -- contract, draft comp, etc.
Regardless, my point is that's what the goal should be. No one is worried about what we do at WR4, so hearing Ballard spend all that time talking about it wasn't encouraging to me.
And I don't mean to make a huge deal out of Ballard going into detail about WR4 when he's mostly talking about a player he likes and how it affects roster mechanics. I don't think he said anything that was wrong. But it's like talking to your spouse about getting a really nice car, and they start sending you links to used Corollas.
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Just now, GoColts8818 said:
Yes but what’s his RAS score? I kid I kid.
Since you asked... His RAS score is actually higher than I thought it would be, based on his size and length. That 40 time and his splits are doing a lot to help bump it up.
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55 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:
Same. He didn’t even trade up to make sure he got AR. If there’s one thing we know about Ballard, there’s certain principles he stands on. Him not trading up in the 1st is like Howie Roseman never drafting a LB in the first round. I just think Ballard is so particular in what he and his staff like that they’re never worried about someone taking their guy.
Agreed overall, but I think if the Colts were targeting Stroud last year, and he was still there at #3, they would have traded up. They didn't trade up for Richardson because they were confident he'd still be there at #4, but they thought about it, and probably had the conversations with the Cardinals beforehand.
But yeah, in general, I don't think Ballard is that interested in trading up. And I think this year that probably works in his favor, based on how it looks like the top of the draft will go.
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9 hours ago, Zoltan said:
I didn’t watch the QBs this year how did Penix look, from his play he seems to have a good throwing motion.
I hate his throwing motion, LOL. I can handle a left handed passer, and I can handle a 3/4 passer, but both at the same time?? 🤢
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19 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:
Wouldn’t rule out Latu at 15 too. He had a solid combine and would be suited to Bradley’s Leo defensive end role. Very refined pass rusher.
I'd cross Latu off the list for the Colts. He's older, his explosive testing is below average, arm length is below average, and he has a rough medical history.
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6 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:
I actually have removed him from consideration from the Colts because of the tackling issues. Especially now that he weighed in at 173. He’s too thin and too uninterested in tackling to play in a Cover-3. If CB is till on the table at 15, for me it would need to be Arnold or Mitchell.
I think Arnold is really good, but I don't think he meets the Colts physical baselines. If we're talking first round, I think Mitchell would be the most obvious target.
Edit: We'll see what Kool-Aid's medical looks like, but I felt like he was the Ballard prototype at corner.
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28 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:
I hope it was just typical coach/GM speak. I would like to believe that Ballard is growing as a GM. Part of that growth should be realizing that betting all your money on back end of the roster guys who were late picks or UDFAs is not a winning formula. You can have Rodney Thomas, Ashton Dulin, Eric Johnson, Jaylon Jones, etc… on the roster but they can’t be your solutions for every question.
Ballard seems to smart to believe that one UDFA WR change your offense. Grigson tried that strategy and it failed. Ballard is a lot smarter than Ryan Grigson.
We'll see if Ballard is different now than he was a couple seasons ago. We have a young, playmaking QB under contract, and a favorable cap situation. We have an obvious need at an important position. I'm not crazy about hearing Ballard go so in depth on what he wants at WR4 when the true need is at WR1. But what really matters is what happens in FA and the draft, not necessarily what he says in a radio interview.
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3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:
the good news is colts still need a fourth WR. Dulin should be your fifth and ST guy. No doubt in my mind Ballard is going to upgrade at pass catcher whether that’s bowers or another WR. Colds got lucky they only had one game missed with their 3 WR.
He specifically talked about Dulin being able to fill the WR4 spot, which is what made me cringe. And I get why he says that about Dulin, his versatility and ability to play STs is important, compared to Pierce, for example, who I don't know if he's ever played a big role on STs and he's not as versatile on offense.
I'm fine with having a spot on the roster for guys like Dulin, they can be important over the course of a season. But he doesn't improve our WR room in the way we need, even if he's healthy all year. We need someone who can be better than MPJ, even if we're keeping MPJ. That guy is probably not on our roster right now, and I don't know where he's coming from. But when we're talking about needing help at WR, I don't really want to hear the GM talking about WR4.
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16 minutes ago, csmopar said:
A lot of teams have been using more backloaded contracts with higher dead cap hits but those generally are doing it for cap relief in a win now mode. We’re not in win now. But I agree, 22-26 million is where I figured Pittman would be once the dust settles
Setting aside the extreme backloading that teams do to get under the cap -- like what's happened with the Saints -- generally speaking a 4-5 year contract allows the team to terminate the contract in the last two years and still save cap money. But yeah, when you start piling on multiple restructures, things change.
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38 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:
I hope not but my gut is telling me MPJ may get 25m a year. I think it goes for 100m even at 4yrs. Maybe a slight yearly discount if it’s 5yrs. Just my opinion but I don’t see us getting a team friendly deal beyond it being front loaded with possible outs the last year or two.
I already had him between $22-25m/year. He said he wanted to test his market, so a team friendly deal was never going to happen. And Ballard all but said he'd use the tag, so $22m should be considered the floor. The bolded is going to be true of almost any long term contract.
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15 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:
Mike Evans signed for 26m a year in Tampa. I’m guessing that will drive MPJs price up a little. Evans has obviously had a great career but at this point they are closer in talent level. I don’t think he will get more but will probably want to be close
I don't think Evans' contract has significant bearing on MPJ's market. His prior contract wasn't a comp because it was too old, and his new contract still comes in behind the top guys at $30m/year. It doesn't really change anything, IMO.
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On 3/2/2024 at 4:19 AM, csmopar said:
First Marv 2.0 skips all his scheduled interviews yesterday, now Caleb Williams, through his dad who is his agent, is doing some crazy stuff:
so far, Williams is demanding, not asking, for the following:
1. NOT to have to sign the standard rookie contract (not allowed under the CBA and Draft rules)
2. A percentage of ownership stakes for whatever team drafts him(not allowed under league rules and the CBA)
3. A fully guaranteed contract (not allowed under the CBA for rookies)
and then he skips his medical examine AND refuses to turn over any medical records, something also against the CBA AND the first time ever a combine invitee has done such actions.
I don’t know if all this works itself out and he still goes 1 overall but I’m seeing some very serious character and ego issues. I said last October I thought the kid was egotistical and would shut out. That was just based on some comments he was making, but man his actions now fully support the egotistical view.
I don't know why I'm even posting this, because I think people who dislike Caleb Williams have their minds made up, and it won't matter. But I feel compelled to address some of this.
First, where has Caleb Williams been shown to be "demanding" anything? Second, how has it been concluded that his dad is his agent?
From the Athletic article you later linked, the reasoning for not hiring an agent is tied to the three points you listed above, and it tracks logically. Fans ask the same questions every year: Why do top NFL draft prospects hire agents to negotiate their contracts, if the terms of the contracts are determined by the CBA and are largely not negotiable?
The top picks in the draft will receive a set contract, it will be fully guaranteed, and it will not have offset language. That's established for more than a decade, going back to the beginning the 2011 CBA. What else is there to negotiate? Why give away 3% of the contract value for something that's already set in stone? So what the article states is that Williams and his family decided there's no need for an agent. He's going to go near the top of the draft -- probably #1 -- and there's not much an agent can do that his group/team can't handle. And Williams is not the first player not decide against hiring an agent.
Despite noise and rumors, there are no legitimate reports that suggest that Williams or his family have demanded any of the things you listed in your post.
Further, it's NOT against the CBA for a player to decline medicals at the Combine. It's unprecedented, but there's nothing in the CBA that says a player must submit to medicals. In fact, Combine invitations are limited, so several players who wind up going to the NFL every year have no opportunity to provide medicals at the Combine.
Caleb Williams definitely has a different personality from what people are used to. There's no point denying it, some teams are going to have a problem with him. But there's also no point in exaggerating it. Some of this stuff doesn't matter, and some of it is completely made up.
It's also interesting to me how every year, we talk about how pointless some of the player evaluation stuff is in the big picture, but then when players who have some leverage start pushing back, they get labeled as egotistical.
And then there's the impact of NIL. There's a new landscape in college athletics, and it's going to continue to influence how top rated draft prospects approach their potential NFL careers. We can call it good or bad, talk about what we like and don't like about it, but it's a real thing, and we're just seeing the beginning of it.
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15 hours ago, chad72 said:
No. It’s unfortunate that the jet skiing accident busted his ACL. Not everyone is Adrian Peterson to come back at a high level from it. I’d rather get someone with less questions from the draft.
Players are coming back from ACLs like it's no big deal these days. My question is whether his injury was more than just the ACL.
Either way, I wouldn't see Hines as the backup to JT, so he wouldn't be an effective replacement for Moss anyway.
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5 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:
Turner. Based on everything I’ve read. But I would wait for Verse… I think Chop could be a surprise similar to how the Raiders (not without controversy) took Clelin Ferrell in 2019. I don’t necessarily see any of them top 5, but you just never know…I don't think Turner is a good scheme fit for the Colts, so I wouldn't see them drafting him in the first, let alone moving up for him. I'm unenthused about Verse; he can't bend, it's on his tape, and his three cone and shuttle times back that up. His explosives are good... Chop seems like the traits guy the Colts would love, but he's unrefined, and seems like a trade back target more than a trade up target.
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Update: Colts signing Michael Pittman Jr to three year contract
in Colts Football
Posted
The deadline is still more than two hours away.
Btw I expect them to get a deal done, but there's still plenty of time for the Colts to use the tag.