Superman

Wow. Edelman qualifies as a WR1, but Pittman doesn't? Do you have any non-vibe criteria? You call him dynamic, but we knock Pittman's dynamic ability because of his yards/catch, which are basically the same as Edelman's. Edelman was primarily a slot -- which means he didn't face #1 corners -- who got schemed open, was great after catch, and played with one of the most efficient QBs in NFL history, and alongside one of the most dominant TEs in history. And his statistical production in his best season is basically what people say is not good enough from Pittman in 2023, with a backup QB. That's a weird one for me. It's one thing to say he's a gamer and you'd rather have him on your team than Pittman. I could get that. But I don't get how he can qualify as a WR1, if Pittman doesn't. To me, neither of them do.

You're right, we don't have that kind of control. But now that the tag has been applied, it should be made clear to Pittman's agent that we're not trading him for peanuts. The tag compensation is two firsts, and that shouldn't be disregarded. In fact, the Colts could say 'we're not open to a trade for anything less,' just to make the point clear. But if they are open to other possibilities, then set the baseline for what we'd be willing to accept. Otherwise the Chiefs come calling saying 'Pittman wants to sign with us, we'll give you a conditional third,' and now the well is poisoned for everyone. I think this is why it's so rare for players to get moved on the tag. Unless it's a situation like the Chiefs and Snead, where both sides are apparently open to moving on and just using the tag to accommodate a trade. But the Colts want to keep Pittman, and have a reasonable offer on the table (we can assume).

The bolded is how I look at it. I think Bowers has the potential to be a top five TE, and I don't think I feel that way about anyone on our roster right now. I really like Woods, but he still has work to do to be a complete player, and his hamstrings have to cooperate. In general, I'm pretty resolutely against needs-based drafting. So if we're getting back a reserve TE who had nine catches in 12 games, it's not really changing the draft strategy, IMO.

I would expect that too, but to someone's point earlier, Ballard and Steichen keep mentioning him. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I guess we'll see. Unlike last season, his guarantee doesn't kick in until Week 1, and we don't need the cap space, so there's no reason to rush. He could be a camp cut. And I don't actually care if they keep him, I just think we need to be better moving forward, and his age/contract make him the most obvious casualty.

There's a lot to like with Latu right now, but I'm not sure about his upside. Productive and technically sound, but not a lot of room to go up. He's older, and his injury history is a problem. Verse isn't super impressive to me. I see what he can do, but he's kind of reckless and all over the place. I've only watched a little of Chop Robinson so far. I don't know, no one really has jumped out at me so far.

Hold up... We can talk about MPJ not being a "true #1" or whatever title we want to come up with. I agree, he's not one of the top guys who will take over a game and beat great coverage, etc., etc. Second tier, third tier, whatever. When I talk about #1 WRs, I'm talking about players who are better and more dynamic than MPJ. But are you putting Edelman on a tier ahead of Pittman? What's the difference between Pittman in 2023, and Edelman in 2016?

You do all the work though. I'm just addicted to checking the CBA...

At this point, it would be malpractice on the Colts part if they don't make clear to Pittman's agent what they would expect back in a trade. You don't let him go negotiate a contract with a team that he wants to go to, and try to work out the trade compensation later.

I was talking about MAC. I see where my post could be confusing, though.

I think Ngakoue is probably a good comp for him, though. Maybe more upside as a rusher, but I don't see him holding his own in the run game if he has to take on OTs on the edge. I'll try to watch some more, and take note of the games I watch. I didn't get into a serious study of him, it just looks like he's a 3-4 edge in the NFL, and our defense doesn't make good use of that kind of hybrid. Even as a LEO, I think the run assignments are problematic. He does have speed to power, but mostly out of two point stance; I don't really view speed to power as a "move," but it's a way for him to win. Not sure it translates against most NFL OTs, but with his length, he'd have a chance. I like Dallas Turner, a pass rush specialist. If the Colts did draft him, I'd hope they have a better plan for him than they had for Ben Banogu, for example. I just think he's at his best from a two point stance, and would be a significant liability in the run game. But I'll get back to you on that.

Now Ballard can no longer say 'we've never used it before.' That's the only negative thing about this situation. Pittman said weeks ago that he wanted to test his market. The only way for him to do that was to force the tag. I thought Ballard would be motivated to get a deal done before the deadline, and I think he was, but it seems like Pittman really wanted the opportunity to talk numbers with other teams. No one is signing him to an offer sheet, but if someone really wants to meet his number, whatever it is, and is willing to make a trade offer to the Colts, maybe they'll consider it. But more likely, no one will make him an offer, and eventually he'll sign a deal with the Colts. By the way, for people freaking out because the Colts used the non-exclusive tag, this is the tag that's almost always used on non QBs. I think the last player to receive the exclusive tag was LeVeon Bell in 2018. Yet, players who get the non-exclusive tag almost never change teams. Even Lamar Jackson got the non-exclusive tag last year, and no one offers two first rounders, and he got a long term deal with the Ravens. Another thing Ballard likes to say: 'It's a tool.' And that's what we're seeing right now.

They still don't appear to like him all that much, if he's playing 38% of offensive snaps. Before Ogletree's situation, he only had three games above 50%. He's basically a backup, but easily our highest paid TE, and believe or not still a top 20 paid TE in the league. He's not dragging our cap down, but we're not getting much out of him either way. This is the year where there's no cap ramification for releasing him, but I guess we'll see.

I tried to learn a lesson from McNary. When the report came out that when the police showed up, his response was 'I know why you're here,' that seemed damning to me. As it turns out, he was found not guilty, apparently the accuser's story was found to be inconsistent, the verdict came quickly, and the prosecutor even said the jury did their job. I don't know what happened in that situation either, and won't pretend to. But sometimes it's best to withhold judgment until more facts can be considered.

If a player were accused of something, and the team responded by releasing him, and then put out a statement about how they want good people on the roster and said player doesn't meet that criteria, etc... The player gets exonerated, and then sues the team for defamation. I get that. It's also a simple enough trap to avoid, and if you have house counsel and they let you put out a release like that without having concrete evidence, then your organization is in bad shape.

Holder has a tweet saying that was not the case here. He says the dismissal was the result of further investigation, not a lack of cooperation. Also, this was not a civil case. Ogletree was being charged by the DA's office. The accuser would not have the option to dismiss the charges, that would only be done by the prosecution team or by the judge.

Having Ogletree wouldn't stop me from drafting Bowers. I don't know why MAC stays on the roster. He's not making a ton of money, but he plays 38% of offensive snaps, and he's not a difference maker in any aspect of the game.

The deadline is still more than two hours away. Btw I expect them to get a deal done, but there's still plenty of time for the Colts to use the tag.

Yeah, a player could file suit. My point is I don't think it would go anywhere because the suit would have no standing. I understand that a person might choose to settle a seemingly frivolous lawsuit for pragmatic reasons. I don't think the NFL or any individual team would respond that way. Based on my very limited understanding, there is no standing for a player to bring suit against a team if the team released the player during a legal issue, even if the player was completely exonerated. In your other example, there are other considerations, like discrimination. That would be a different story, but it doesn't seem relevant to this discussion.

I watched some of Turner, he was almost always in a two point stance, and has little to no pass rush moves. It's just speed and some bend to beat blockers, but once they engage with him, he's mostly losing the rep. And he's not very good against the run. I don't mind having a hybrid pass rusher with freakish traits, but I don't think he fits what the Colts want at DE as a player. Ngakoue was a productive pass rusher, and they let him walk after one year. Ebukam is better against the run.

I don't know how a player files against a team for releasing him, unless the team is accusing the player of some kind of violation. And that would be a tricky situation, which could include a lot of variables. Generally speaking, a team does not have to provide a reason for releasing a player. The team might be contractually obligated to pay the player, but that doesn't mean they have to keep the player on the roster.

Oh, that could be a blind spot at DE, especially if they're including 3-4 DEs.

Based on some of the stuff I'm reading, it seems as close to exoneration as anyone could expect. It sounds like the full investigation uncovered evidence that was not initially considered. And it doesn't sound like the accuser suddenly decided to stop cooperating with the investigation. I won't pretend to know what happened, and I'm not passing judgment on anyone involved. But for Ogletree, this outcome is about the best he could have hoped for, from a legal standpoint and probably from a career standpoint.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39659039/colts-te-drew-ogletree-domestic-violence-charges-dropped In another tweet, Holder says the dismissal wasn't the result of a lack of cooperation, but from further investigation.

I thought Arnold would be 4.45-4.5, so pretty close. I think he's really instinctual and positions himself well, and he can contest at the high point. I really like him, but never thought he fit Ballard's profile. I really like Mitchell also, he seems longer to me... There are a lot of later round guys with longer arms, but it looks like a lot of them project as safeties in the NFL.

Mod note: The last thread on this topic was locked because the discussion veered way off course. Please respect the site rules, and one another. https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/docs-charges-against-indianapolis-colts-te-andrew-ogletree-dismissed-with-prejudice/ It will be interesting to see how the NFL handles this moving forward, and what the Colts choose to do. Right now, Ogletree is on the exempt list. I would assume the NFL will go over whatever information is available to them, and decide whether any suspension is warranted. But 'dismissed with prejudice' might mean that there is no case to be made.