Peyton having Arms Issues?

[DILLIGAFER]

I have not really watched Denver closely this preseason (or many teams yet) but the concern I have read on Manning from a few places is that sometimes his foot motions resemble that of a baseball pitcher at times.

Ok... and thats a concern because....???

[Fx Stryker]

Ok... and thats a concern because....???

It doesn't even look like a pitcher in the first place. Peyton has always cut his leg motion halfway through the follow through his whole career.

[BrentMc11]

Peyton...play football...take names later.......you may not be 100%.....but you are the master of OL calls and defense manipulation.....do not let a van's lubricant....throw you off. Go get em! Good luck number 18.

[Gonzo]

He definitely looks like he's lost velocity on his throws. But his accuracy doesn't appear to have suffered any and he still knows right where to go with the ball.

[WSO]

Elway who is one of the most physically gifted QB's to ever step on the field knows a thing or two about arm strength and accuracy. There is no way he is giving Manning a $96M contract if he is having any arm issues.

"He's throwing the post route and everything well,'' Elway said. "I went back and looked at film from 2010 and 2009 to get a comparison of Peyton, and he looks to me to be the same guy throwing now that he was then.

"The ball is coming out quicker all the time the more and more time he gets with the offense and getting to know all his receivers and tight ends. ... That's always been his style. He's never been the Nolan Ryan of quarterbacks anyway. He's always thrown the ball with great anticipation and touch."

He hasn't played in a year or so. It's all rust. He just had a phenomenal game against the seahawks. Threw for 170+ yards and a high completion percentage against one of the best corner tandems in the NFL. I'm usually pretty harsh on Manning but there has been nothing so far in the pre-season showing he has arm issues. If you really need to, go back and watch the 2 minute drive against the Seahawks. He was absolutely perfect. Looked exactly like Manning in 2010. 2 penalties ended up killing that drive.

I think people are confusing the lack of chemistry and rust for arm issues. His passes have been pretty much on the money. He threw two deep bombs against the Seahawks as well which were incomplete.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Here is the chart I spoke about in a previous post for those that are interested in looking at the breakdowns by direction over his career.

http://jimcaldwellsucks.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/manning-passes-by-direction.pdf

[-JJ-]

I really hope he's ok..as in 100%.

[chad72]

He definitely looks like he's lost velocity on his throws. But his accuracy doesn't appear to have suffered any and he still knows right where to go with the ball.

Yep. His accuracy is still good. His velocity slightly being off is something wideouts like Tamme who is used to a tad faster ball may have to adapt to. Besides, it has been more than a year since Tamme has caught balls from Peyton too.

At least Stokely and Decker have been practicing with Peyton in the offseason, explains why they seem to be more on the same page with Peyton, and Tamme will be next to follow. DT will be the last, I feel, and DT has to learn to run every single route to the fullest. Otherwise Mike McCoy would have to dial up some jump ball plays for DT, something Peyton doesnt do as much, throw it up for grabs.

[BayAreaBronco]

I listened to someone (hmm... who was it?) on Sirius saying that he had Peyton ranked #12 out of QBs this season, but that the average that he's seen is about #8 by other NFL "experts."

And yes, those quotes are important

Is Skip Bayless among the experts?

I thought some of you might like this brutal takedown of John Clayton:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/face-palming-my-way-to-brain-trauma

[BrentMc11]

Is Skip Bayless among the experts?

I thought some of you might like this brutal takedown of John Clayton:

http://www.itsallove...to-brain-trauma

I wrote in the QB thread.....Clayton is the number 1 QB in the "looks like a ' bird division.' funny post BayAreaBronco!!!

[oldunclemark]

If you divide the field into Left/Middle/Right,

For his career he has thrown more to:

Right 43.7% of the time 64.7 cmp % 43.2 % of his yards, 47.9% of his TDs

Left 39.9% of the time 65.4 cmp % 40.6% of his yards 31.8% of his TDs

Middle 16.4% of the time 64.5 cmp % 16.3 % of his yards 20.3% of his TDs

From 2007-2010 he has thrown to:

Right 41.6% of the time 64.5% cmp % 41.8% of his yards 54% of his TDs

Left 45.8% of the time 68.5 cmp %, 48% of his yards 28.8% of his TDs

Middle 12.6% of the time 68.6 cmp% 11.2% of his yards 16.1% of his TDS

Those could be just gradual shifts that vary year to year.. I've got a document that I post that has everything crunched out more if anyone is interested in seeing it.

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

At first glance Brady is better throwing to his left.

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

At first glance Brees is better throwing to his right.

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

All 3 are fairly balanced.

That's good stuff ............FJC.....very complete

..I dont see a definite pattern..and I cant explain why someone would be more accurate to their left but throw more TDs to their right.

I think it may all be coincidence..

[FireJimCaldwell]

Some have complained about the wobble of the ball.

He's always thrown the ball that way. Marino did too.

Here is a video that has some high school footage in it. Guess what? There is that wobble. I think it's more technique than anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5poE4B89f4&feature=related

[Jay Kirk]

Velocity off....mastery of the line of scrimmage the same.

If I am completely off I am completely surprised,,,,rarely am. Like I said in the Bronco thread....you need to give respect for a player who knows the game...makes his OL and every player better. This is about RESPECT as I said about the respect I have for Tom Brady and the great ones.

Bayone put a nice link in showing the flaws of 18. I am a Colt Fan first, but I saw Peyton Manning go right down the field on the Bears....he will continue to rehab....I will not count him out...the most over analyzed arm/neck/nerve regeneration in the history of mankind..... BTW I have a gray hoodie in the closet for ya....that suit is just not right.

With a big blue horseshoe? or perhaps

[Vance]

I was browsing YT vids (boring day) and came across this video. It's of the AFC Wildcard game against the Jets in the 2010 season. FF to 1:44 and you can see Manning deliver a bullet to Garcon for a TD. The pass traveled 40 yards through the air with a great spiral.

An this is a pick from the Seahawks game, looks to be the same type of delivery (as in, he wasn't trying to drop it in there). The pass travels 35 yards through the air with much less velocity and noticeable wobbliness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTYI_5oTvts

So we can definitely say at this point that he's lost a lot of velocity, who knows if he'll get it back.

[oldunclemark]

The film clip effort here is appreciated......and you are highlighting 2 throws.. The Garcon TD and the interception in the Seattle 2012 exhibition...

there's also a completion to Tamme (in the 2010) game that floats.....accurately..but it floats

If youll recall, Peyton's final pass...to his right...was somewhat underthrown in the Jets playoff game..

..also .....the 2010 pass for a TD was a second half (maybe 4th quarter pass) while the interception was early 1st qaurter...

I'm just not seeing the obviously weaker arm....

...not when compared to 2010.....maybe 2004, 2005...

I think we see a lot of young boys now who throw the ball so well....and all older QBs pale by comparison

[WSO]

I was browsing YT vids (boring day) and came across this video. It's of the AFC Wildcard game against the Jets in the 2010 season. FF to 1:44 and you can see Manning deliver a bullet to Garcon for a TD. The pass traveled 40 yards through the air with a great spiral.

An this is a pick from the Seahawks game, looks to be the same type of delivery (as in, he wasn't trying to drop it in there). The pass travels 35 yards through the air with much less velocity and noticeable wobbliness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTYI_5oTvts

So we can definitely say at this point that he's lost a lot of velocity, who knows if he'll get it back.

The first pass was a 46 yard pass in which he took a 6 step drop then really stepped into his throw

the second pass was a 3 step drop(from shotgun) 35 yard pass in which he planted his foot but didnt drive into the throw like the first video.

Also in the first pass, Manning has to over throw the safety, in the 2nd pass Manning is trying to drop it between the safety and the corner. This is why you see him really drive it in the first video, and not really have to in the 2nd video. Two similar but different throws.

[Gonzo]

Not worried about the wobble. He's always thrown alot of wobbly balls but they usually end up right where he wants them.

He looks sharp for a guy who hasn't played in two years. He looks amazing for a guy who sat for two years and came back from 4 surgeries.

[southwest1]

Here is the chart I spoke about in a previous post for those that are interested in looking at the breakdowns by direction over his career.

http://jimcaldwellsu...y-direction.pdf

Some have complained about the wobble of the ball.

He's always thrown the ball that way. Marino did too.

Here is a video that has some high school footage in it. Guess what? There is that wobble. I think it's more technique than anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5poE4B89f4&feature=related

Some very impressive spreadsheet and original footage there FJC. I wish that you worked an analyst on NFL Network right beside Mike Mayock and Solomon Wilcots. You always post original and useful information my friend. Well done once again.

[Vance]

Just my opinion, I don't think Manning at this point could make the throw at 1:45.

[chad72]

Seahawks are crushing the Chiefs today and for some reason, I am getting the feeling their D is better than advertised. If they get some consistent QB play, the Seahawks will challenge the 49ers in that division easily. That Russell Wilson kid is real good, IMO.

It does put Peyton's performance vs the Seahawks in relatively better light, IMO. Like I said, Peyton is going to need a lot of help from his teammates this season to make the Broncos a playoff team, whether he is at 80% or 90% velocity. He still throws it with anticipation and timing and the ones who have worked with him the most on the timing, Stokely and Decker, will be the biggest recipients, IMO.

[throwing BBZ]

A story over on NFL.com..... some parts are from ESPN....

Appears Peyton has some trouble throwing to his right on pass plays longer than 10 yards.....

I have no dog in this hunt.... I'm just passing this along for whatever it may, or may not, be worth....

http://www.nfl.com/n...s-to-right-side

He completed 44% of his passes beyond 11 yards in 2010. Doubt if his arm is as good as it was then, probably never will be.

Sure was nice of him to take $26M from the Franchise to rehab! What a ....

[FireJimCaldwell]

He completed 44% of his passes beyond 11 yards in 2010. Doubt if his arm is as good as it was then, probably never will be.

Sure was nice of him to take $26M from the Franchise to rehab! What a ....

What a what?

Speak up.

[John Dee]

It doesn't even look like a pitcher in the first place. Peyton has always cut his leg motion halfway through the follow through his whole career.

ya... like every other QB in the NFL..

If the motion continues the QB does a pirouette. And looks like a sissy.. And we know PM is no sissy.

[Fx Stryker]

ya... like every other QB in the NFL..

If the motion continues the QB does a pirouette. And looks like a sissy.. And we know PM is no sissy.

Exactly. Some QBs don't even move their leg on some throws. The "analyst" probably seen them, and then watched Peyton and was like "durr hurr he is throwing like a baseball player."

[John Dee]

Exactly. Some QBs don't even move their leg on some throws. The "analyst" probably seen them, and then watched Peyton and was like "durr hurr he is throwing like a baseball player."

Are we discussing PM's arm strength. ??

[Fx Stryker]

Are we discussing PM's arm strength. ??

Well the "area of concern" was his footwork looks like a baseball pitcher. I would assume they are looking for reasons to say he has arm issues. Changing your mechanics is probably a sign of incapably of throwing the way you use to, but that's not the case he has always thrown that way.

[John Dee]

Well the "area of concern" was his footwork looks like a baseball pitcher. I would assume they are looking for reasons to say he has arm issues. Changing your mechanics is probably a sign of incapably of throwing the way you use to, but that's not the case he has always thrown that way.

FX I disagree...

Peyton use to "drill" the ball in on a "long" out. He is NOT doing this NOW.

I really have no horse in the race but I do want Manning to make it.

That said... ...

[Dr. T]

A story over on NFL.com..... some parts are from ESPN....

Appears Peyton has some trouble throwing to his right on pass plays longer than 10 yards.....

I have no dog in this hunt.... I'm just passing this along for whatever it may, or may not, be worth....

http://www.nfl.com/n...s-to-right-side

Told you ...

[Susie Q]

Told you ...

[BrentMc11]

He completed 44% of his passes beyond 11 yards in 2010. Doubt if his arm is as good as it was then, probably never will be.

Sure was nice of him to take $26M from the Franchise to rehab! What a ....

I do not like the fill in the blank reference to call Peyton Manning a 'name' for trying to come back from what was thought at the point to be 3 neck surgeries.....only to find out there was a 4th procedure.

I wish I had 26 million dollars when my 80 yr-old 'Pops' had a devastating head injury in 2002......to be told he would die....and then 'rehab' his way to 91 yrs- old this year. Rehab is one of the hardest things any person can go through...especially trying to walk....in Dad's case walk and talk.

Peyton busted his tail in rehab, and truth be told with the new CBA he worked as hard (or harder) than his teammates did. A world class athlete with his determination had 26 million reasons to work his 'tail' off.....just like my Pops Pops just wanted to live. Peyton Williams Manning wanted to play football the way he always has...at HOF level. Thinking back to the final press conference, he wanted that to be right here....with the Indianapolis Colts. Bottom line....rehab is WORK!

Edited August 25, 2012 by BrentMc11

[FireJimCaldwell]

I do not like the fill in the blank reference to call Peyton Manning a 'name' for trying to come back from what was thought at the point to be 3 neck surgeries.....only to find out there was a 4th procedure.

I wish I had 26 million dollars when my 80 yr-old 'Pops' had a devastating head injury in 2002......to be told he would die....and then 'rehab' his way to 91 yrs- old this year. Rehab is one of the hardest things any person can go through...especially trying to walk....in Dad's case walk and talk.

Peyton busted his tail in rehab, and truth be told with the new CBA he worked as hard (or harder) than his teammates did. A world class athlete with his determination had 26 million reasons to work his 'tail' off.....just like my Pops Pops just wanted to live. Peyton Williams Manning wanted to play football the way he always has...at HOF level. Thinking back to the final press conference, he wanted that to be right here....with the Indianapolis Colts. Bottom line....rehab is WORK!

Great post..

I'll leave it at that

[Balzer40]

I love Peyton and still think he is the best QB to ever play this game, but with that said, if some of you don't see an obvious loss of velocity in his throws, you are absolutely fooling yourselves. I attribute that to the fact that the man hasn't played competitively in over a yr. and half. There is no reason why he should be completely back just yet IMO. I stated in another thread that if he still has this obvious lack of velocity come mid season, then I think the Bronco's are in trouble. It's true, that Manning at 75-80% is better than a lot of QB's but if he's not at 95% at midseason then IMO he never will be and I don't think he will ever be 100% again regardless. I think a lot of people are expecting way too much from Peyton and unfortunately his biggest fans are the worst one's.

[luvdacolts67]

I love Peyton and still think he is the best QB to ever play this game, but with that said, if some of you don't see an obvious loss of velocity in his throws, you are absolutely fooling yourselves. I attribute that to the fact that the man hasn't played competitively in over a yr. and half. There is no reason why he should be completely back just yet IMO. I stated in another thread that if he still has this obvious lack of velocity come mid season, then I think the Bronco's are in trouble. It's true, that Manning at 75-80% is better than a lot of QB's but if he's not at 95% at midseason then IMO he never will be and I don't think he will ever be 100% again regardless. I think a lot of people are expecting way too much from Peyton and unfortunately his biggest fans are the worst one's.

The bottom line is how well he moves the Denver offense. He has had guys drop alot of balls but other than that, they are moving the ball. Peyton will get it together. These are the first games hes played in 2 years with a new team. He still looks good. I think you are wrong and when Denver makes the playoffs I hope you come back on here and admit it.

[Balzer40]

The bottom line is how well he moves the Denver offense. He has had guys drop alot of balls but other than that, they are moving the ball. Peyton will get it together. These are the first games hes played in 2 years with a new team. He still looks good. I think you are wrong and when Denver makes the playoffs I hope you come back on here and admit it.

Where exactly did I say the Bronco's weren't going to make the playoffs? Please point it out to me! I don't know exactly what I need to come back and admit. I said Peyton's velocity is not the same, I even said why I think that is. I think you need to calm down and read a little better.

[MAC]

I was browsing YT vids (boring day) and came across this video. It's of the AFC Wildcard game against the Jets in the 2010 season. FF to 1:44 and you can see Manning deliver a bullet to Garcon for a TD. The pass traveled 40 yards through the air with a great spiral.

An this is a pick from the Seahawks game, looks to be the same type of delivery (as in, he wasn't trying to drop it in there). The pass travels 35 yards through the air with much less velocity and noticeable wobbliness.

So we can definitely say at this point that he's lost a lot of velocity, who knows if he'll get it back.

The first pass certainly has more velocity than anything we've seen from him so far - so maybe he has lost something - but I don't think that the second pass is comparable at all. In fact in contrast to what you suggested, I think that "dropping it in there" is exactly what he was doing.

When I saw this on tv I thought that Peyton had seriously overthrown the receiver, and I've considered this "the only bad pass I've seen from him so far". The apologetic comments from the receiver about "short-arming the ball" made no sense to me. Now that I've had a chance to watch it a few more times, I think that that's exactly what happened. The receiver was concerned with getting hit and he didn't extend at all. Sure it looked a bit wobbly, but that could have been a reception, or at a minimum the receiver could have deflected it. Far from the "he lobbed it strait to the defender" scenario that I had imagined.

In other words, in an effort to show something negative, you've actually shown something positive. This is actually another example of something that would NOT happen later in the season after everyone has further developed chemistry.

[bayone]

The bottom line is how well he moves the Denver offense. He has had guys drop alot of balls but other than that, they are moving the ball. Peyton will get it together. These are the first games hes played in 2 years with a new team. He still looks good. I think you are wrong and when Denver makes the playoffs I hope you come back on here and admit it.

The Broncos receivers.Manning's arm has certainly been the talking point of the preseason, both near and far. The bigger issue for the Broncos' offense at the moment, however, has been the number of dropped passes in practice and in the preseason games

Thursday was a particularly drop-filled day at practice for the Broncos.

And while that's going to happen from time to time, it's closing in on a trend,

e:49ers-Broncos preseason game: Things Denver wants to see (and not see) - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpos...o#ixzz24ZHs7UCm

Remember when he ran Colts practice,

balls didnt touch the ground they would say,

this has to be as frustrating to him as G , Dm it Donald , Brown missing the blitz pick up

[Vance]

In other words, in an effort to show something negative, you've actually shown something positive. This is actually another example of something that would NOT happen later in the season after everyone has further developed chemistry.

Like I said, I don't think he can make that throw right now. I will believe it when I see it.

[NewColtsFan]

Told you ...

You, told me? What? When?

:slaphead:

[Coltsince4]

All I know is, as a Colts fan I'm sure glad I don't have to worry about this Manning thing. I'm not concerned one bit just as being a

Colts fan only if you know what I mean?

Coltsince4

[bayone]

All I know is, as a Colts fan I'm sure glad I don't have to worry about this Manning thing. I'm not concerned one bit just as being a

Colts fan only if you know what I mean?

Coltsince4

Just saying hello my friend , been awhile