Blackout?

MR. Blueblood · July 10, 2012

Just heard a snippet for the Fox59 news in Indianapolis tonight that the Colts might not adhere to the league's new 85% ticket sales to prevent blackouts for home games.

Has anybody heard anything about this? I will watch the full story tonight when the MLB All-Star game is over and see what they say. I didn't want to wait that long if I didn't have to if anybody had any additional info.

Superman · July 10, 2012

http://www.cbssports...if-not-sold-out

"We understand what the NFL is doing and at the same time, as a small market team, we want to make sure that we protect that game day experience," Hall said. "Every year we'll evaluate where we're at, but at this point in time after thinking through it, home field advantage is a big part of it. It's a competitive advantage on the field to have the stadium full."
...
"Colts tell me if you accept 85% rule, every tix sold over 85% capacity, half that money must be paid to visiting team. Serious $$ loss," Kravitz tweeted. "NFL has given teams the option to do 85%, but I'd be surprised if many, if any, actually do that. Very expensive. Bottom line, yes, it's about the bottom line. Wanna sell out, have homefield advantage. Don't wanna be paying out $$ to visitors.

Thewholefnshow28 · July 10, 2012

I read the article that basically said the Colts will not adhere to the new NFL rule pertaining to blackouts. They said that if they are not totally sold out then they will blackout games.

I doubt this will even come up, but to me it is just stupid negative PR to bring on yourself. You are coming off a truly pathetic season, fired your entire coaching staff, and got rid icon of the team. So why not threaten the Indy area with blackouts.

Superman · July 11, 2012

I read the article that basically said the Colts will not adhere to the new NFL rule pertaining to blackouts. They said that if they are not totally sold out then they will blackout games.
I doubt this will even come up, but to me it is just stupid negative PR to bring on yourself. You are coming off a truly pathetic season, fired your entire coaching staff, and got rid icon of the team. So why not threaten the Indy area with blackouts.

It's unclear at this point what teams will choose to abide by the new blackout rule. The primary motivator seems to be that if you agree to the 85% rule, you split all gate receipts above 85% with the visiting team. Could legitimately cost teams who choose the 85% rule money that they can't recoup if the teams they visit don't choose the rule. And if the alternative is to push more ticket sales throughout the season, and it works, then it's a big financial difference.

I'm not defending it. I'm saying there's potentially a huge financial negative to the teams that choose the 85% rule. I personally doubt there will be any Indy blackouts at 100%, and if the team feels the same way, I understand them not accepting the 85% rule. They'd be giving money away for nothing.

MR. Blueblood · July 11, 2012

http://www.cbssports...if-not-sold-out

Thanks Superman for the link. I have gone to several games in the past but have never been able to afford season tickets so I do the next best thing I can and watch them at home. It's disappointing to me that the team would take such a hard stance on this. I understand the financial impact for the team by accepting the 85% and giving money to the visiting team, etc, but with all of the backlash that has happened in this off-season I would think that the team would be willing to do a little more to either win back or keep their fan base. I'm still fairly confident that this will be a moot issue as I believe the last remaining tickets will be sold, even if tv/radio stations etc buy them and give them away in various promotions. At least that is my hope as I will be very displeased if games are blacked out.

Superman · July 11, 2012

Thanks Superman for the link. I have gone to several games in the past but have never been able to afford season tickets so I do the next best thing I can and watch them at home. It's disappointing to me that the team would take such a hard stance on this. I understand the financial impact for the team by accepting the 85% and giving money to the visiting team, etc, but with all of the backlash that has happened in this off-season I would think that the team would be willing to do a little more to either win back or keep their fan base. I'm still fairly confident that this will be a moot issue as I believe the last remaining tickets will be sold, even if tv/radio stations etc buy them and give them away in various promotions. At least that is my hope as I will be very displeased if games are blacked out.

I agree. And if the team feels the same way, then it makes little sense to give away money for no reason.

CopenhagenColt · July 11, 2012

Please excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't it work the other way as well, so that the Colts would also recieve money from games away?

It makes no sense to me, why the organization would take such a stance...

Superman · July 11, 2012

Please excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't it work the other way as well, so that the Colts would also recieve money from games away?
It makes no sense to me, why the organization would take such a stance...

Only if the team they're visiting adopts the 85% rule as well.

For instance, if the Colts go 85%, when the Texans come to town, they get half of the gate above 85%. (Lucas Oil Stadium fits 70,000, and the average ticket to a Colts game is $73. That's a total of $384,195 that they could be required to pay to the Texans that week.) And this is the case whether the game is sold out 72 days in advance or 72 hours in advance. So the sell out might very well have nothing to do with the visiting team.

However, if the Texans don't go 85% (and why would they?), when the Colts visit Houston, they get nothing.

The away game that the home team might go 85% on is Jacksonville. And they legitimately have to do that. They've been tarping seats for years now. So it's unlikely that they'd have very much of a gate above 85%.

This looks bad PR wise: "The Colts are still going to black out games even though the NFL said they don't have to! And they cut Peyton Manning!" But the more I consider it, the more I think it's the right move. Not only do I expect the eight home games to be sold out, but I think it would be a big mistake to give away half of your gate receipts above 85% to opposing teams that likely have nothing to do with the amount of tickets you've sold.

Superman · July 11, 2012

More details on the actual rule:

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears-huddle/2012/07/nfl-relaxes-blackout-rule-explained/

The percentage of your gate above 85% to be paid to the visiting team is based on a tier, up to 50%. It starts at 34% for every home game now. So the money issue isn't quite as pronounced as I thought. It's still a factor, and for a team that likely will sell out every game, it's tantamount to giving away money. I don't think it's necessary for a team like the Colts.

grmasterb · July 11, 2012

I can sort of understand the Colts' position from a financial standpoint; I just think it's bad PR to threaten fans now. Put the single-game tickets on sale, then see what happens. There may have been no need to issue such a threat.

JJ4JC · July 11, 2012

Why do we do this to ourselves? We are NOTORIOUS for doing dumb stuff like this in the public arena. In my opinion, this is really a non-issue that just became an issue.

I completely understand the Colts' position on this and agree with their decision. However, not everyone does; so why publicly put this out there right now? I hope this goes away, soon!

SilentHill · July 11, 2012

That only blacks out the games locally correct?

GoColts8818 · July 11, 2012

We will sell the remaining 2000 seats and this wont be an issue.

deedub75 · July 11, 2012

Why is it so hard to sell those remaining 2000 seats? Hasn't that number been 2000 for awhile now? There must be 2000 individual seats in the upper most reaches of the stadium.

Superman · July 11, 2012

Why is it so hard to sell those remaining 2000 seats? Hasn't that number been 2000 for awhile now? There must be 2000 individual seats in the upper most reaches of the stadium.

I haven't seen an update from the team. It's possible that the same number just keeps getting regurgitated and isn't accurate anymore. That would make sense.

grmasterb · July 11, 2012

Why is it so hard to sell those remaining 2000 seats? Hasn't that number been 2000 for awhile now? There must be 2000 individual seats in the upper most reaches of the stadium.

We don't know how hard it is until we've allowed some sale time for the 3-game packages and single-game tix (the latter have yet to go on sale).

GoColts8818 · July 11, 2012

I haven't seen an update from the team. It's possible that the same number just keeps getting regurgitated and isn't accurate anymore. That would make sense.

The Fox 59 story said they got the figure from the team it's self. Also just found this story on Indy Star.com that has quote from Pete Ward of the Colts where he brings up the 2,000 remaining tickets http://www.indystar.com/article/20120710/SPORTS03/120710056/Colts-will-blackout-games-all-tickets-not-sold?odyssey=mod|breaking|text|IndyStar.com&nocache=1 . Also worth mentioning he is also confident that the tickets will be sold and this will become a none issue.

Frankly it's a story that if I was the team right now I would have just said no comment for the time being and only deal with it when you had too. You've already frustrated the fans enough with moves this off-season now threatening that you wont your fans see games they could see so you can sell more tickets (which is how some fans are going to see it even if that isn't 100% true) isn't going to help that.

I know as more details have come out it's very reasonable for the Colts to be taking the stance they are on this but they did a horriable job handling this on a PR front.

Warhorse · July 11, 2012

I am thankful that they chose to talk about it because at least it is a new topic, and not a Manning Vs Luck or Brady thread.

Its fresh..... like Jim Irsay tweets too much threads. :thanks:

GoColts8818 · July 11, 2012

I am not a huge Kravitz fan but I think this is good from him even if some people aren't going to like part of it.

http://blogs.indysta...-and-blackouts/

Fx Stryker · July 11, 2012

I don't understand why they keep calling the Colts a small market team. The do realize we are the #11 on the wealthiest teams? What are the other 21 teams below us? "No market" teams?

GoColts8818 · July 11, 2012

I don't understand why they keep calling the Colts a small market team. The do realize we are the #11 on the wealthiest teams? What are the other 21 teams below us? "No market" teams?

because when compared to Boston, Houston, New York, Chicago and several other cities Indianapolis is a small market. It's not about wealth it's about media market when they talk about that.

Fx Stryker · July 11, 2012

because when compared to Boston, Houston, New York, Chicago and several other cities Indianapolis is a small market. It's not about wealth it's about media market when they talk about that.

But Indy is the eighth largest NFL city, is it not?

GoColts8818 · July 11, 2012

But Indy is the eighth largest NFL city, is it not?

12th but media market it's something like 25th as can be seen here.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2008/09/10/nielsen-local-television-market-universe-estimates/5037/

ReMeDy · July 11, 2012

Found a front page NFL.com article on it.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a7610f/article/indianapolis-colts-pass-on-option-to-ease-tv-blackouts?module=HP11_headline_stack

Fx Stryker · July 11, 2012

12th but media market it's something like 25th as can be seen here.
http://tvbythenumber...estimates/5037/

Twelfth Largest city, but ninth NFL city. Missed Phoenix last time I counted.

1 New York New York 8,244,910 302.6 27,016.3

2 Los Angeles California 3,819,702 468.7 8,091.8

3 Chicago Illinois 2,707,120 227.6 11,843.6

4 Houston Texas 2,145,146 634 3,311.4

5 Philadelphia Pennsylvania 1,536,471 134.1 11,379.6

6 Phoenix Arizona 1,469,471 516.7 2,797.8

7 San Antonio Texas 1,359,758 460.9 2,880.0

8 San Diego California 1,326,179 325.2 4,020.3

9 Dallas Texas 1,223,229 340.5 3,517.8

10 San Jose California 967,487 176.5 5,359.4

11 Jacksonville[g] Florida 827,908 747.0 1,100.1

12 Indianapolis[f] Indiana 827,609 361.4 2,270.2

Indy needs to step up their marketing though. Twenty-fifth is terrible.

GoColts8818 · July 11, 2012

Twelfth Largest city, but ninth NFL city. Missed Phoenix last time I counted.
1 New York New York 8,244,910 302.6 27,016.3
2 Los Angeles California 3,819,702 468.7 8,091.8
3 Chicago Illinois 2,707,120 227.6 11,843.6
4 Houston Texas 2,145,146 634 3,311.4
5 Philadelphia Pennsylvania 1,536,471 134.1 11,379.6
6 Phoenix Arizona 1,469,471 516.7 2,797.8
7 San Antonio Texas 1,359,758 460.9 2,880.0
8 San Diego California 1,326,179 325.2 4,020.3
9 Dallas Texas 1,223,229 340.5 3,517.8
10 San Jose California 967,487 176.5 5,359.4
11 Jacksonville[g] Florida 827,908 747.0 1,100.1
12 Indianapolis[f] Indiana 827,609 361.4 2,270.2
Indy needs to step up their marketing though. Twenty-fifth is terrible.

It's not so much Marketing that's the issue it's the fact Indianapolis doesn't have the suburbs around it other major cities do like the Dallas Fort Worth area for example. That's why they are so far down in the media markets. They are a big city with nothing around them.

Now add to that the Colts have only been in Indianapolis since 1984 and aren't like the Packers or Steelers two other small market teams that have generations of fans to draw on and that they have to compete with at least six other teams fighting for the Indianapolis market (Bears, Bengals, Lions, Titans, Rams, and Browns) and you can see why they are really seen as a small market team.

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Nadine · July 11, 2012

I am not a huge Kravitz fan but I think this is good from him even if some people aren't going to like part of it.
http://blogs.indysta...-and-blackouts/

How did the Colts release the information? Maybe he's right that they could have been more proactive with explaining the rationale for this.

When I first heard about this 85% thing, I thought it was great that the NFL was helping out fans in these economically difficult times.

But, the rule does seem to punish a team that's already down..........

The part of the article I thought was an undeserved shot was this

And I don’t buy the idea the Colts have abandoned their fans. If anything, the fans abandoned the Colts. I’m talking about the fair-weather fans who bailed the minute Peyton Manning walked out the door. The Colts have given them more than a decade of excellence, but the minute the team fell, a lot of fans scattered, a good 13 percent of season ticket holders.

This is the entertainment biz and fans pay a lot to be entertained. If they don't feel they will be entertained, they can and should let their tickets go.

They are every bit as justified as the team

Thewholefnshow28 · July 11, 2012

It's unclear at this point what teams will choose to abide by the new blackout rule. The primary motivator seems to be that if you agree to the 85% rule, you split all gate receipts above 85% with the visiting team. Could legitimately cost teams who choose the 85% rule money that they can't recoup if the teams they visit don't choose the rule. And if the alternative is to push more ticket sales throughout the season, and it works, then it's a big financial difference.
I'm not defending it. I'm saying there's potentially a huge financial negative to the teams that choose the 85% rule. I personally doubt there will be any Indy blackouts at 100%, and if the team feels the same way, I understand them not accepting the 85% rule. They'd be giving money away for nothing.

Ah I did not know about sharing the revenue with the away team if you implement the 85% rule. I can understand why the Colts are doing this and I expect most teams would do the same thing. With that said I think this info is just a PR nightmare for the Colts because your average fan is not going to think about revenue sharing with the away team. The first time they are sitting at home and they cannot see a game they will be livid.

Also to follow up the worst season in over a decade where the team was an utter joke, getting rid of the guy who put this franchise on the map, firing your entire coaching staff, and then come out and say well if we do not sell out I am going to block the Indianapolis fans from seeing the game is just not a good way to endear yourself to the fanbase.

lollygagger8 · July 11, 2012

Irsay needs to stop tweeting Rolling Stones lyrics and other garbage and stay out of the lime light for awhile....a long while.

FightLikeSin · July 11, 2012

With blackouts looming and Directv fighting Viacom for my favorite channels, I might just be subscribing to Hulu and buying NFL Sunday Ticket via PS3.

JustAColtsFan · July 11, 2012

Why do we do this to ourselves? We are NOTORIOUS for doing dumb stuff like this in the public arena. In my opinion, this is really a non-issue that just became an issue.
I completely understand the Colts' position on this and agree with their decision. However, not everyone does; so why publicly put this out there right now? I hope this goes away, soon!

They put out publicly because they are required to by NFL rules. Unfortunately, they did not spin it very well. They are just tweeking the noses of the non-football watching taxpayers that were just looking for another reason to get on their soapboxes about the food and beverage tax ect. I retanined my tickets so not woried one way or another. Those fairweather fans that were happy to support the team for 12 years of excellence but dumped thier tickets at the first sign of adversity can just stare at a blank TV screen! I have several friends that have been on the waiting list for several years that were happy to snap up some of those tickets. GO COLTS!

JustAColtsFan · July 11, 2012

Twelfth Largest city, but ninth NFL city. Missed Phoenix last time I counted.
1 New York New York 8,244,910 302.6 27,016.3
2 Los Angeles California 3,819,702 468.7 8,091.8
3 Chicago Illinois 2,707,120 227.6 11,843.6
4 Houston Texas 2,145,146 634 3,311.4
5 Philadelphia Pennsylvania 1,536,471 134.1 11,379.6
6 Phoenix Arizona 1,469,471 516.7 2,797.8
7 San Antonio Texas 1,359,758 460.9 2,880.0
8 San Diego California 1,326,179 325.2 4,020.3
9 Dallas Texas 1,223,229 340.5 3,517.8
10 San Jose California 967,487 176.5 5,359.4
11 Jacksonville[g] Florida 827,908 747.0 1,100.1
12 Indianapolis[f] Indiana 827,609 361.4 2,270.2
Indy needs to step up their marketing though. Twenty-fifth is terrible.

Something else that effects this is the fact that we are competing with Cincy and Chicago for basicly the same market area. Not much competition but they have been in this market longer than the Colts LOL.

Susie Q · July 11, 2012

They put out publicly because they are required to by NFL rules. Unfortunately, they did not spin it very well. They are just tweeking the noses of the non-football watching taxpayers that were just looking for another reason to get on their soapboxes about the food and beverage tax ect. I retanined my tickets so not woried one way or another. Those fairweather fans that were happy to support the team for 12 years of excellence but dumped thier tickets at the first sign of adversity can just stare at a blank TV screen! I have several friends that have been on the waiting list for several years that were happy to snap up some of those tickets. GO COLTS!

Well calling OP fair weather fans is not really a good option because some people can't afford season tickets because of the economy but that doesn't make them any less of a fan than you are in my opinion. We are all fans or we wouldn't be on the forum board. Maybe some of the fans that let their tickets go was because maybe they are no longer employed and had no choice. JMO of course.

indycar · July 11, 2012

I can sort of understand the Colts' position from a financial standpoint; I just think it's bad PR to threaten fans now. Put the single-game tickets on sale, then see what happens. There may have been no need to issue such a threat.

THIS X100.

I literally just went to buy single game tickets to help the situation and can not. So... you won't sell me a ticket AND are threatening me with blacking out my favorite team? Really PR guys?

hawkeyes · July 11, 2012

Heard it on FOX59 this morning ... league says 85%, but Colts are going to stick to 100% ... That's not the kind of fan treatment that inspires me to continue supporting the team by purchasing tickets, and team gear, etc

With the team rebuild you can expect a lot of non-sell outs! If they are truly interested in 100% sell outs they need to lower the prices and stop being so pig-headed!

Superman · July 11, 2012

The part of the article I thought was an undeserved shot was this
This is the entertainment biz and fans pay a lot to be entertained. If they don't feel they will be entertained, they can and should let their tickets go.
They are every bit as justified as the team

Agreed. I think it's nonsense to criticize fans who don't continue to buy tickets. You vote with your dollars, and if you don't like what the team is doing, you stop giving them your money.

GoColts8818 · July 11, 2012

How did the Colts release the information? Maybe he's right that they could have been more proactive with explaining the rationale for this.
When I first heard about this 85% thing, I thought it was great that the NFL was helping out fans in these economically difficult times.
But, the rule does seem to punish a team that's already down..........
The part of the article I thought was an undeserved shot was this
This is the entertainment biz and fans pay a lot to be entertained. If they don't feel they will be entertained, they can and should let their tickets go.
They are every bit as justified as the team

They did an interview with fox 59 and let them kinda run with it rather than doing a press release to get all the info get out there. So fox 59 took the biggest headline and reported that colts to black out games rather than doing the full story.

As for his latter point I don't think Kravitz was saying fans were right or wrong for walking away from the team he was just saying they did. I can see how he said would rub some people the wrong way but on that point I happen to agree with him. I won't spark a huge debate with this and I am not saying anyone here is this but if you stop being a fan of a team because one guy leaves you aren't a diehard fan of that team. Diehard fans stand by thier team no matter what hence the term diehard. So I can see what Kravitz was saying and agree with that point.

Now with that said I know not everyone gave up tickets because of Peyton. There other reasons too. Still I think the point Kravitz was getting at is that those people gave them up they weren't taken away by the colts.

Superman · July 11, 2012

They did an interview with fox 59 and let them kinda run with it rather than doing a press release to get all the info get out there. So fox 59 took the biggest headline and reported that colts to black out games rather than doing the full story.
As for his latter point I don't think Kravitz was saying fans were right or wrong for walking away from the team he was just saying they did. I can see how he said would rub some people the wrong way but on that point I happen to agree with him. I won't spark a huge debate with this and I am not saying anyone here is this but if you stop being a fan of a team because one guy leaves you aren't a diehard fan of that team. Diehard fans stand by thier team no matter what hence the term diehard. So I can see what Kravitz was saying and agree with that point.
Now with that said I know not everyone gave up tickets because of Peyton. There other reasons too. Still I think the point Kravitz was getting at is that those people gave them up they weren't taken away by the colts.

I disagree with the bolded.

When your team makes decisions you don't agree with, you have little recourse other than to withhold your money. Criticizing fans who have spent thousands of dollars supporting a billion dollar organization because they choose to stop spending money without prejudice is out of bounds, if you ask me.

And teams get this. Part of the reason the Colts paid Manning so much money over the years is because they understand that having a marquee player helps your ticket sales. When you get rid of said marquee player, it is going to affect your ticket sales negatively, at least for a period of time. The fact that 13% didn't renew isn't surprising to me. It could have been a lot more. Kravitz is twisting the knife.

Gavin · July 11, 2012

Take last year for example, How many people would have payed to see the mess that was last season? well with that season happening and with the loss of Manning, fans are at worst expecting this team to not be that good including most of us fans on this forum and dont want to pay who knows how many bucks to (I dont have ticket prices in front of me) to watch them lose, which they will do this first season more often then not when fans can save there money and spend it on something that 1.Costs less and 2.and lets be honest will be more fun then watching them lose especially for those of us that will get NFL Rewind for 70 bucks and be able to watch the whole season and then some, Like it or not Irsay needs to lower prices, it wont hurt for one season especially when most feel the season will result in more losses then not

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