Why The Hate On Grigs?

[jwilli69]

I'm not sure all of us are ready to buy into the Grigson era yet. I don't think most people took rebuilding to mean gutting the whole team. If the idea is to bring in a bunch of free agents, how many teams have tried that and failed misserably? If you are realling on as large a pool of rookies as it looks like we might...then we are into extended rebuiling, who know how long that may take. Here is my problem with the "grigs" love fest...the guy was director of college scouting from 2006 to 2010 and then director of player personnel for less than two years for the Eagles..as director of player personnel his teams posted records of 10-6 and 8-8. I think a lot of people are not sure if he isready for the job. Anybody can come in and cut players, none of these players were worth looking at keeping or trading or restructuring their contracts. It is starting to look like a ruderless ship...and It dosen't look like much of a plan at this point....just my two cents worth...it will be interesting to see where it all ends up in a few years...I am sure that teams like the Dolphins, Bills, Rams, or any of the teams that had a run of success at one point thought they would still be rebuilding years latter...time will tell...

I don't think the team is a rudderless ship, in fact, it appears they certainly have a full plan sketched out. You take on a new head coach and new defensive coordinator with new philosphies and you look at what doesn't fit in with that and cut bait now in a year that just isn't going to materialize into anything. You rebuild with youth and sprinkle in some vets at key positions (oline/Dline) for your new scheme. That seems like a plan to me. BTW, the Dolphins, Bills and many other teams didn't get to draft what many consider to be the best QB in a draft since Elway or Manning, thats high praise and extreme quality comparisons. Those teams had to reach for a QB and hoped they panned out (Redskins) which many did not. If Luck is what he is advertised, which I believe he will be, then this team is poised to come back to the top way faster than many other teams have. We all know what one really great QB can do for a mediocre team (see 2011 Colts record) and the team does have a few nice pieces in the mix from last years draft, Angerer, McCafe Powers and maybe Garcon (if signed). You add in a few solid picks in this draft, a few productive FA pick ups and next years draft, coupled with a hopefully dead on hit with Luck, and this team is primed for another long term run to the playoffs. If Griggs chooses wrong, he will stunt the teams growth but so far, he has done nothing to make me feel like he can't be successful. The easier thing would have been to keep the old guys around because they were at least known players and have produced in the past but the best thing is to restock the team, which he appears ready to do. Study this draft and FA class well Griggson!!

I don't think his blocking was any worse in 2011 than it's ever been. We just foolishly asked him to do things that he's never been good at (blocking some of the best pass rushers in the league one-on-one).

[TheCurtainWith]

It hurts watching them leave. I agree with every move made thus far. I have a feeling there are 4-5 names that wont be back next year we have yet to talk about.

[KaylaD]

I agree with the last 3 comments made. People are too emotional right now. These things needed to be done. I think eventually people will understand that. I said in another post, this team said they were rebuilding and I think a lot of people did not realize what a true rebuiild means. You don't rebuild a team with players all 30 yrs+. You have to have young healthy players. Thank you toall the players cut but this is how football goes. I bet the upset fans are a lot more suprised then the players who were cut. This has been coming for awhile just sad it had to happen all at once and with Manning being released. It makes it hard to cope with for some. Change is a good thing though, maybe not such a good feeling right now but in a few years, look out! They know what they are doing. In Pagano I trust, I have faith in that man. I can't explain why but I think he will be great and I love the things he has said and done so far. As far as Grigson, I don't think people are giving him a chance and that is just not fair. He was judged before he even opened his mouth.

[jwilli69]

As expressed by others in this forum, there is real anger at Grigson not trading the pick to Washington for those 3 first-rounders and the 2nd rounder.

This is a reasonable complaint, but consider this: when you look at the Colt's 2012 schedule, it's hard to find matchups in which they will be favored.

It is therefore likely that they will be in the running for a top-5 pick in 2013. We know that Matt Barkley and Landry Jones will be highly sought-after, and there may be another top prospect emerge in that draft. There will be QB-hungry teams willing to overpay then as well: Cleveland, Arizona, Seattle, Kansas City, etc. Meanwhile, we will have the highest-rated QB prospect in 14 years already on the squad. I would expect two No. 1's and a number 2 at minimum for the rights to Barkley. I'd rather have Luck and one less No. 1 than Bradford and one more No. 1.

As far as the upcoming draft is concerned, keep in mind that Grigson, unlike Polian, has a long history of scouting in all areas of the country for the Rams and Eagles, and has many local contacts among college coaches. This is an advantage for us.

If we end up with the rights to pick Barkley, our GM and coaches have done an extremely poor job in getting these young men prepared for a NFL season. I expect us to be competitive this season but not able to get over the hump in many games. I see us in the range of 4-6 wins this season not 0-3. Jags may still be worse than the COlts are against the league and do you expect Washington to be heads and shoulders above us? Will Cleveland, Tampa Bay or Minny be so much improved? If Miami doesn't land Manning (which I don't believe they will) do very well with a no name QB and a change in scheme from one that was successful to an unknown? We should not be picking 1st or 2nd or 3rd next draft IMHO. top 10 yep, but not top 3 which I would suspect that #1 will be Barkley, that will be a true blessing to have that pick if you have a future QB on your roster already.

[LuckyColt]

As far as Grigson, I don't think people are giving him a chance and that is just not fair. He was judged before he even opened his mouth.

Absolutely. Toughness is a very important quality in a GM, and he has it. He knew he would have to make some tough decisions and he has. He has done a lot of thinking without a lot of second guessing. He's doing excellent.

[b_etchison]

Grigson made some moves that Polian never would...if these cuts weren't made it could have turned into being a whole lot worse a couple of years from now. Just trying to be optimistic.

[GAColtfan]

More of a question than a comment...

Grigson, I'm sure at the behest of Irsay, has completely blown up a nucleus of veteran players that have won, won consistently and won big... there is a lot of fear that we have left a somewhat sure thing for a high stakes gamble.

Can anyone think of an example of this kind of strategy working in the salary cap era (other than us with Manning)?

[crazy_elf]

I don't think the team is a rudderless ship, in fact, it appears they certainly have a full plan sketched out. You take on a new head coach and new defensive coordinator with new philosphies and you look at what doesn't fit in with that and cut bait now in a year that just isn't going to materialize into anything. If Luck is what he is advertised, which I believe he will be, then this team is poised to come back to the top way faster than many other teams have. You add in a few solid picks in this draft, a few productive FA pick ups and next years draft, coupled with a hopefully dead on hit with Luck, and this team is primed for another long term run to the playoffs. If Griggs chooses wrong, he will stunt the teams growth but so far, he has done nothing to make me feel like he can't be successful. The easier thing would have been to keep the old guys around because they were at least known players and have produced in the past but the best thing is to restock the team, which he appears ready to do. Study this draft and FA class well Griggson!!

Hey Joe Willie...I understand the points you are making....I don't agree with all your opinions, but thats what forums are about..lol. I think we are trying to find a plan, but time will tell. It will be interesting to visit a lot of these threads in a year. Nothing that happened on Grigsons short tenure at the Eagles makes me believe he has a plan...going 10-6 and then 8-8 dosen't give me a lot of faith that he is not in over his head. With Luck....we will see...I don't buy all the hype...looks like he has the arm and seems pretty collected...I think he is going to have a hard adjusting to the speed of the NFL...I'm ready for football to start....I not sure I won't throw up the first time I see Manning in a Bronc's jersey....

[chrisfarley]

I'm watching Grigson's every move, i'm coming around on his style ---- grabbing what he knows then venturing out to what he learns. Pagano and Grigs are doing that (grabbing familiars) , then looking for some steals. Then we have the draft which will do real good for us up to the 5th round .... we gave up that 6th round unfortunately so I hope what we got in return is decent (winston). He also has inserted some folks in the front office like the new football administrator replacing Dennis Polian with a very experienced replacement and things like that ;--- I'm looking at the whole picture of what he is doing.

[oldunclemark]

This is kind of a

I have seen so many people on here hating on Grigs for these cuts today. These players, while they were important to us during our run, are either not worth their contracts, injury prone, or getting old. We are freeing up an extra 25 million next offseason by these moves and when we are able to start signing STUD free agents like a Carl Nicks or Mario Williams you all will be back loving Grigs.

Tough decisions have to be made, but they are decisions that have to be made with your head, and not your heart. In order for this team to be turned around faster, these cuts had to be made.

I havent heard anybody hate Grigson. he just got here.

I dont know that's he's made any major moves yet..

the draft is his thing

[HungarianColtsFan]

More of a question than a comment...

Grigson, I'm sure at the behest of Irsay, has completely blown up a nucleus of veteran players that have won, won consistently and won big... there is a lot of fear that we have left a somewhat sure thing for a high stakes gamble.

Can anyone think of an example of this kind of strategy working in the salary cap era (other than us with Manning)?

Bulitt and Bracket were on IR for 2 years now, and they didn't pass physical, Clark wasn't good last seasons, neither was Addai. (Garcon's decided to go himself.) So I don't think this "blow up" was a gamble. They are trying to set up a working roster instead of an expensive IR.

[likm]

I'm watching Grigson's every move, i'm coming around on his style ---- grabbing what he knows then venturing out to what he learns. Pagano and Grigs are doing that (grabbing familiars) , then looking for some steals. Then we have the draft which will do real good for us up to the 5th round .... we gave up that 6th round unfortunately so I hope what we got in return is decent (winston). He also has inserted some folks in the front office like the new football administrator replacing Dennis Polian with a very experienced replacement and things like that ;--- I'm looking at the whole picture of what he is doing.

We swapped 6th rounders. We did lose a 6th round pick.

[HungarianColtsFan]

We swapped 6th rounders. We did lose a 6th round pick.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we didn't loose a 6th round 2nd pick, we exchanged it for OL Winston Justice and 17th pick in 6th round.

http://www.colts.com...ad-c3d938747d85

[likm]

We swapped 6th rounders. We did not lose a 6th round pick.

[likm]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we didn't loose a 6th round 2nd pick, we exchanged it for OL Winston Justice and 17th pick in 6th round.

http://www.colts.com...ad-c3d938747d85

I meant we did not lose a 6th. Thanks.

[Blueblazes]

Can't really complain about the decisions at this point. Hard decisions, but none the less they had to be made in most cases. Would like to see the O line get rebuilt quickly (that will cover a lot of weaknesses in other areas on offense). Would like to see the WR position get a vertical threat (that would also cover deficiencies at TE). The defense will need a lot of work obviously, but so far, it's ok. But the jury is still out. Check back Sept. 1.

[schwamm]

More of a question than a comment...

Grigson, I'm sure at the behest of Irsay, has completely blown up a nucleus of veteran players that have won, won consistently and won big... there is a lot of fear that we have left a somewhat sure thing for a high stakes gamble.

Can anyone think of an example of this kind of strategy working in the salary cap era (other than us with Manning)?

I don't know if this has ever happened before. No clue.

However, while the team used to win consistently and win big, I don't think you can argue that the players released (besides Manning, and even he has ??? all over him) would have taken our team where it needs to go now. The building was collapsing, it was time to do some careful demolition, shore up the foundation, and re-build. IMO, it was less a risk than necessary.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I don't hate the guy, I just think he is in OVER HIS HEAD! my hope is he learns & grows into the job! There will be NO STUD free agents signing here until there is a plan in place & some stability! My further hope is he is a good talent evaluator. which is suppose to be his strength. We will know soon enough & God help us if he isn't!

[Corndog]

Over the past 14 years we've seen two players that fans love leave this team and probably end up playing for someone else: Edge and Sanders.

Edge fans loved but understood and the running game was a key factor in us winning a Super Bowl the very next year it was hard to be upset about it.

Sanders most fans knew it was just time he couldn't stay healthy.

For the most part we have been extremely lucky Polian always found a way to keep the guys we loved. Then the ones he couldn't like Marvin ended up retiring rather than playing for someone else. Heck even Tony Dungy retired a Colt rather than being fired.

In the past week the Colts have released more than double the fan favorites than Polian did in 14 years. Included in that is Peyton Manning. Needless to say there is going to be a back lash by fans because they aren't used to this and don't like it (not that any fanbase does).

This is very true, but this was also one of the problems with Colts during Polians run. He overpaid alot of those talents to stay because they were fan favorites and sold jerseys. There is a reason this team has salary cap problems and it wasn't just Peyton Manning. Manning was worth the money, alot of these players weren't. While I like what Dwight Freeney has done for this team, he isn't worth nearly $20 million a year(although he is still here). Most of the guys he cut weren't contributing what they were paid and had injury issues. Sure Clark and Addai sold tons of jerseys, but Clark has been injury prone the last few years and Addai has proven he isn't a top running back. I hate to said this, but look at the Patriots, they have no player loyalty and are a consistent contender every year. Also a real loyal player would take a pay cut to stay with a team or atleast try to make it work for the salary cap. IMO Mathis and Wayne proved their loyalty and true colors, maybe Freeney will re-negotiate his deal as well. As far as paying a fan favorite to sit on the sidelines half the season or underperform, no thanks, I rather draft a new guy or pay a better performing player less. I was a big Sanders fan, but it was time to move on. I liked Clark in his prime, but if he can't stay healthy why keep him? Brown looked better last year and was healthier than Addai, no reason to keep him. Angerer proved to be a better and younger option at MLB, no reason to keep Brackett unless he considered a serious pay cut.

The fact is Peyton Manning's cut already alienated a good portion of the fanbase. Most of the people who didn't like this decision weren't going to like Grigson and these necessary cuts were good decisions, but to them more alienating. My decision on Grigson will be how this team progresses over the next few years. If this team is 2-14 in a couple of years I probably won't like him, until then I want to see what happens on the field.

[Superman]

I don't hate the guy, I just think he is in OVER HIS HEAD! my hope is he learns & grows into the job!

What has he done wrong? Can't he have a draft before we determine that he doesn't know what he's doing?

[DG1]

I think he is doing a fine job so far considering the massive inferno he was thrown into.

[Bleedin Blue]

I like the free agency moves! I can't wait tillt he draft. I hope he doesn't disappoint.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

What has he done wrong? Can't he have a draft before we determine that he doesn't know what he's doing?

Nothing so far I see a nervous guy. We will see how he does. You can be in over his head, & still work out. Its called on the job training. I like him polar opposite of Pollian.

[GAColtfan]

Maybe because there is no track record for him, no GM experience to look back on.

If he makes mistakes early, then that is his track record... and some feel like he has made several already--

There are miles to go before we really get to see the results of his work.

[GoColts8818]

Early results (and it's very early since he hasn't even had his first draft here let alone put a team on the field yet) has lead me to like Grigson. I was unsure about him at the time of hiring because he is not good with the media although I have always said I'll gladly trade a GM who isn't a good with the media for one who is very good with everything else in his job. With that said I love what he has done with free agency. I think he has not only filled in some needs but he's done it for very good contracts and he really impressed me by not over paying to bring Garcon back and quickly going to plan B to bring Reggie Wayne back for a much better contract.

[Superman]

Maybe because there is no track record for him, no GM experience to look back on.

If he makes mistakes early, then that is his track record... and some feel like he has made several already--

There are miles to go before we really get to see the results of his work.

Quite obviously, to which I ask: What moves has he made so far that were mistakes?

Gary Brackett failed his physical, and was due $7 million this year.

Melvin Bullitt failed his physical.

Joseph Addai has missed 14 games the past two years, and has managed to rush for 928 yards and five touchdowns in those two years combined. He's a 29 year old running back who can't stay healthy, and he was due $10 million over the next two years.

Dallas Clark is 33 years old, he's missed 15 games in the past two years, has 71 catches for 699 yards and five touchdowns combined in those two years. And he was due $7 million this season.

He turned around and added talent at three positions that we needed help at, and all three players have the potential to be starters right away. He resigned two very good veterans who obviously wanted to be in Indy, and did so at much less than market value. He cleaned up a tough salary cap situation, and we'll have tons of cap space next season.

JMO, I think the right moves were made in every regard here. The Manning decision was Irsay's, not Grigson's. He and Irsay collaborated on the Pagano hiring, which I think was a very good one as well.

When we get to the draft, I'll be very interested in how Grigson approaches our positions of need, but so far, I'd co-sign every single one of his decisions.

[Jay305]

I think its because he doesnt wear jackets with his button down shirts

[jwilli69]

Hey Joe Willie...I understand the points you are making....I don't agree with all your opinions, but thats what forums are about..lol. I think we are trying to find a plan, but time will tell. It will be interesting to visit a lot of these threads in a year. Nothing that happened on Grigsons short tenure at the Eagles makes me believe he has a plan...going 10-6 and then 8-8 dosen't give me a lot of faith that he is not in over his head. With Luck....we will see...I don't buy all the hype...looks like he has the arm and seems pretty collected...I think he is going to have a hard adjusting to the speed of the NFL...I'm ready for football to start....I not sure I won't throw up the first time I see Manning in a Bronc's jersey....

Griggs wasn't the GM in Philly so the decisions he may have made could have made the team better or worse in Philly. 10-6 record is not on Griggs at all, he was just in charge of evaluating talent and the GM picked from a pool of people. As for Luck, time will tell on this kid if has it or not. If he misses, you could say about 30-32 teams in the league if choosing first and had same like circumstances would make the same choice in Luck, he is that regarded around the league and scouts. When you had Manning and Leaf, it was a split feeling around the same circles. I think uck will end up doing well if given weapons and a oline to protect him.

Bulitt and Bracket were on IR for 2 years now, and they didn't pass physical, Clark wasn't good last seasons, neither was Addai. (Garcon's decided to go himself.) So I don't think this "blow up" was a gamble. They are trying to set up a working roster instead of an expensive IR.

Well the failing a physical excuse is sometimes just that, an excuse. Look at the DT from Buffalo we were going to pick up a few years ago and then he failed our physical yet was able to conitnue playing in Buffalo. Others have left the team because they didn't pass a physical and signed other places and played for that team so if they want you to pass, you will, if not, you won't.

[GAColtfan]

Quite obviously, to which I ask: What moves has he made so far that were mistakes?

Gary Brackett failed his physical, and was due $7 million this year.

Melvin Bullitt failed his physical.

Joseph Addai has missed 14 games the past two years, and has managed to rush for 928 yards and five touchdowns in those two years combined. He's a 29 year old running back who can't stay healthy, and he was due $10 million over the next two years.

Dallas Clark is 33 years old, he's missed 15 games in the past two years, has 71 catches for 699 yards and five touchdowns combined in those two years. And he was due $7 million this season.

He turned around and added talent at three positions that we needed help at, and all three players have the potential to be starters right away. He resigned two very good veterans who obviously wanted to be in Indy, and did so at much less than market value. He cleaned up a tough salary cap situation, and we'll have tons of cap space next season.

JMO, I think the right moves were made in every regard here. The Manning decision was Irsay's, not Grigson's. He and Irsay collaborated on the Pagano hiring, which I think was a very good one as well.

When we get to the draft, I'll be very interested in how Grigson approaches our positions of need, but so far, I'd co-sign every single one of his decisions.

The obvious answer is "we don't know yet". What I was trying to say is that because there is no track record, some (not I, but some) have already made judgments based on their perception of his work-- and with no previous track record to stand on, a perceived failure at first becomes his track record. Just like a first date, you mess it up and sometimes there is little hope of repairing that relationship. If you feel like he has messed up in letting go of one of our players or don't like one of the players he signed, then his track record stinks. With Polian all these years, we had a track record to look back on, and maybe excuse a move we didn't like or have the patience to see it play out.... same with Dungy.

Any talk of how he has done, without the "W's" & "L's" is fruitless. And even at that, it is going to take a couple of seasons to begin to fully see what we might look like. Not much left to do but see where this is taking us.

I'm like you, I think how he drafts will tell us a lot about the initial direction we are headed and maybe give us a better context to put some of these decisions in

[Superman]

The obvious answer is "we don't know yet". What I was trying to say is that because there is no track record, some (not I, but some) have already made judgments based on their perception of his work-- and with no previous track record to stand on, a perceived failure at first becomes his track record. Just like a first date, you mess it up and sometimes there is little hope of repairing that relationship. If you feel like he has messed up in letting go of one of our players or don't like one of the players he signed, then his track record stinks. With Polian all these years, we had a track record to look back on, and maybe excuse a move we didn't like or have the patience to see it play out.... same with Dungy.

Any talk of how he has done, without the "W's" & "L's" is fruitless. And even at that, it is going to take a couple of seasons to begin to fully see what we might look like. Not much left to do but see where this is taking us.

I'm like you, I think how he drafts will tell us a lot about the initial direction we are headed and maybe give us a better context to put some of these decisions in

Yeah, I know there's the element of the unknown. I just don't get why people say things like "he's in over his head," (not you) when he's kind of knocking it out of the park.

[braveheartcolt]

Most of the cuts were due to our pathetic cap management by Chuckles & Son. Grigson was the guy brought in to sort it out.

[Malakai432]

I don't hate the guy, I just think he is in OVER HIS HEAD! my hope is he learns & grows into the job! There will be NO STUD free agents signing here until there is a plan in place & some stability! My further hope is he is a good talent evaluator. which is suppose to be his strength. We will know soon enough & God help us if he isn't!

Reggie Wayne was definitely a stud FA signing.

[Superman]

Most of the cuts were due to our pathetic cap management by Chuckles & Son. Grigson was the guy brought in to sort it out.

The cuts were due to the players not being productive. To a man, none of the players cut have been on the field with any regularity over the last two seasons.

Brackett's contract was designed to be revisited this offseason, regardless of whether he was playing at a high level or not.

[Superman]

Reggie Wayne was definitely a stud FA signing.

HSH has decided that no one wants to be a Colt. We can only sign players that have no other options, cap space or not.

[Wyld1]

Its a good thing that * Erectus didn't fear fire and utilized while adapting to change unlike some of the people on here

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Yeah, I know there's the element of the unknown. I just don't get why people say things like "he's in over his head," (not you) when he's kind of knocking it out of the park.

KNOCKING IT OUT OF THE PACK???????????? REALLY???????????? He cut cap space, because Irsay told him to, to retool & bring in draft picks, we are going to a new defensive scheme. He has brought in some losers from the Philly OL which by the way was bad. A backup safety & Redding who I like but isn't great, & both followed there former DC from Bal. OH I forgot he also brought in some camp tackling dummies as free agents. HE IS ON FIRE!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Reggie Wayne was definitely a stud FA signing.

He was our own & they ONLY turned to him after he swing & missed on Garcon. He did get Mathis back though, but Wayne & Mathis were ours, wheres the beef.

[Superman]

KNOCKING IT OUT OF THE PACK???????????? REALLY???????????? He cut cap space, because Irsay told him to, to retool & bring in draft picks, we are going to a new defensive scheme. He has brought in some losers from the Philly OL which by the way was bad. A backup safety & Redding who I like but isn't great, & both followed there former DC from Bal. OH I forgot he also brought in some camp tackling dummies as free agents. HE IS ON FIRE!

We see it completely different. You can scroll up a few posts to see my take on the moves Grigson made. It's interesting that you classify creating cap space as an edict from Irsay, when in reality it was just the common sense thing to do at this point. Grigson has been on the job two months, and right now, our team is in a position to improve rapidly -- if we make the right decisions in the draft.

[Wyld1]

KNOCKING IT OUT OF THE PACK???????????? REALLY???????????? He cut cap space, because Irsay told him to, to retool & bring in draft picks, we are going to a new defensive scheme. He has brought in some losers from the Philly OL which by the way was bad. A backup safety & Redding who I like but isn't great, & both followed there former DC from Bal. OH I forgot he also brought in some camp tackling dummies as free agents. HE IS ON FIRE!

Lets see....................Brackett, Clark, Addai and Bullitt were cut and with the exception of Clark at the time NEVER deserved their contracts which is now knee capping this team!

[esmort]

He was our own & they ONLY turned to him after he swing & missed on Garcon. He did get Mathis back though, but Wayne & Mathis were ours, wheres the beef.

You mean when we wisely did not over pay Garcon