Eagles not going to whitehouse

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

 

Player driven is ideal. Political heads discussing sports beyond "They have a message they want to share" has always ground my gears

I agree

  

[PrincetonTiger]

6 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

 

Player driven is ideal. Political heads discussing sports beyond "They have a message they want to share" has always ground my gears

 That has become a problem in the social media world 

[Narcosys]

3 hours ago, Archangel said:

This was not about the protest over the National Athem, This is about some individuals dislike for President Trump and his policy. I applaud the team for not kneeling last year.  President Trump has made it perfectly clear if a person or persons on a team do not want to attend a celebration at the White House the entire team would be disinvited. Its sad when some individuals  cannot put their difference aside for one day so that others who wanted to go were able to go.

It wasn't just "some," it was nearly the entire team.

[Narcosys]

30 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

Can Trump then also cancel the $10mil contract with the NFL and US Military to have the players come out for the Anthem?

 

Otherwise, Ive no issues with players using their positions to raise awareness of Political issues. They've helped enact changes which frankly society needed.

 

Its like watching Pagano's gameplan in the 4th quarter this last year when it comes to politics injecting themselves into sports (vs players injecting it): Utterly predictable on every spectrum.

Which changes are those?

[Nadine]

24 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

So they should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for 5 guys instead of 53?

 

Umm, no. That's not practical. Like I said you have to weigh the cost/benefits, and cost far outweighs the benefit.

Look at my example about the ball.

I'm saying that the white house is still hosting the event.  They've just disinvited the people from the Eagles who were coming.

 

Not sure what cost benefit change there is

[Narcosys]

Just now, Nadine said:

I'm saying that the white house is still hosting the event.  They've just disinvited the people from the Eagles who were coming.

 

Not sure what cost benefit change there is

They cancelled the event, not disinvite. There's a difference in connotation and changing it to serve your purpose is disingenuous. 

 

They have planned something else in place of the event, which has different requirements. 

[Nadine]

7 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

They cancelled the event, not disinvite. There's a difference in connotation and changing it to serve your purpose is disingenuous. 

 

They have planned something else in place of the event, which has different requirements. 

I don't have a disingenuous purpose.  Not sure what the difference between cancelling and event and hosting another instead vs just disinviting the eagles either.

 

Don't know what the difference in requirements between the cancelled invent and the new event is cost wise is.  If it was just 10 people coming I would think not much. 

 

Quote

 

"The Eagles wanted to send a smaller delegation, but the 1,000 fans planning to attend the event deserve better," he added.

 

Trump said Eagles fans are still invited to the White House "to be part of a different type of ceremony — one that will honor our great country, pay tribute to the heroes who fight to protect it, and loudly and proudly play the National Anthem."

"I will be there at 3:00 p.m. with the United States Marine Band and the United States Army Chorus to celebrate America," he said.

 

A copy of Trump's schedule released by the White House just after 10 p.m. Monday said that at that time on Tuesday he would be participating "in the Celebration of America." 

 

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/390667-trump-disinvites-eagles-from-white-house-visit-plans-different-type

 

[Narcosys]

13 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I don't have a disingenuous purpose.  Not sure what the difference between cancelling and event and hosting another instead vs just disinviting the eagles either.

 

Don't know what the difference in requirements between the cancelled invent and the new event is cost wise is.  If it was just 10 people coming I would think not much. 

Cancelling, when compared to disinviting, means there are external circumstances forcing the hand of the cancelling party. Disinviting has a more personal, and less objective, meaning that one party had no part in. 

 

As in cancelling an event you are attending versus just disinviting you from it. Its not like trump is still celebrating the eagles victory.

 

Im sorry if this confuses you, but it's fairly simple. With the military being there and performing, there is no additional cost as they are getting paid regardless. There is no cost associated with special requirements for the security, transportation, food, etc. for the team. 

 

You don't realize it cause you dont have anything to do with security or the military, but I do.

[Nadine]

13 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Cancelling, when compared to disinviting, means there are external circumstances forcing the hand of the cancelling party. Disinviting has a more personal, and less objective, meaning that one party had no part in. 

 

As in cancelling an event you are attending versus just disinviting you from it. Its not like trump is still celebrating the eagles victory.

 

Im sorry if this confuses you, but it's fairly simple. With the military being there and performing, there is no additional cost as they are getting paid regardless. There is no cost associated with special requirements for the security, transportation, food, etc. for the team. 

 

You don't realize it cause you dont have anything to do with security or the military, but I do.

 

To me, he's just changing the existing event and excluding 10 people that had been invited before.  Seems pretty clear. It is pretty simple.  I'm not confused whatsoever. 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2018/06/05/nfl-players-remind-world-that-eagles-didnt-actually-kneel-during-the-anthem-last-season/111171616/

 

 

I don't think your cost benefit argument holds water but, I accept that you feel there were security costs that outweighed having 10 eagles reps there. Agree to disagree

[TheMarine]

41 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Which changes are those?

idk, only one of the most iconic images within Sports and the Olympics in the 60's

 

 

Or, Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali Protesting the war

 

Theres tons of examples

 

[Narcosys]

13 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

idk, only one of the most iconic images within Sports and the Olympics in the 60's

 

 

Or, Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali Protesting the war

 

Theres tons of examples

 

So what, what actual changes were instituted directly because of their involvement?

 

Nothing, especially when it came to Ali draft dodging. 

[21isSuperman]

7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Only after finding out maybe less than 10 of them would come.  Without getting political, I don't blame him.

Maybe there's a reason 10 or less of them would go?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Latest official White house response-

(Blames Eagles for backing out, not negotiating in good faith, pulling political stunt)

 

'The White House put out a timeline of sorts about the discussions with the team, beginning after the Eagles‘ Super Bowl win in February. Mrs. Sanders said the team at first accepted an invitation to visit the White House last Tuesday.

On Thursday, she said, the team notified the White House that 81 people, including players, coaches, management, and support personnel, would attend the event. On Friday, the Secret Service cleared them for participation.

 

“These individuals, along with more than 1,000 Eagles fans, were scheduled to attend the event,” she said.

But late Friday, “citing the fact that many players would not be in attendance, the team contacted the White House again, and attempted to reschedule the event,” she said. That conflicted with the travel plans of Mr. Trump, who is departing this Friday for a G-7 summit in Canada and then on to Singapore for denuclearization talks with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.

 

“The president … had already announced that he would be traveling overseas on the dates the Eagles proposed,” Mrs. Sanders said. “The White House, despite sensing a lack of good faith, nonetheless attempted to work with the Eagles over the weekend to change the event format that could accommodate a smaller group of players.”

 

In the end, Mr. Trump “decided to change the event so that it would be a celebration of the American flag with Eagles fans and performances by United States Marine Band and the United States Army Chorus,” Mrs. Sanders said.

She said the Eagles‘ organization tried to pull a “political stunt” by sending a smaller group.

 

“If this wasn’t a political stunt by the Eagles‘ franchise, then they wouldn’t have backed out at the last minute,” she said. “The Eagles are the ones that changed their commitment at the last minute.”

 

The NFLPA and Curry/James have repsonded as well-

 

The NFL Players Association said the cancellation had resulted in the concurrent cancellation of “several player-led community service events for young people” in the Washington DC area.

 

“Our union is disappointed in the decision by the White House to disinvite players from the Philadelphia Eagles from being recognized and celebrated by all Americans for their accomplishment,” the statement said. “NFL players love their country, support our troops, give back to their communities and strive to make America a better place.”

 

LeBron James and Steph Curry, star players for the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Golden State Warriors, indicated their teams would not accept any invitation to visit the White House should they win the NBA finals series.

[Archangel]

3 hours ago, dynasty13 said:

 

He's a baby, it's as simple as that...he can't help but make it about him and he didn't want to look bad by having a smaller crowd there. His obsession with crowd size and how he thinks it reflects on him is well-documented. Regardless of how people feel about him and his policies, there is no denying that this issue is about him, not the team. Players from previous championship teams have elected not to go in the past, whether a democrat or republican was in office, and it's never been a big deal.

 

Really you are going their this has nothing to do about him. This was a political stunt by the Eagles organization so now you want the President to back down to the players because they have a agenda. So when does this end. If the players or the organization does not want to go as a team because of their dislike for the sitting President or because of politics. And then the fans who spent money in advance to attend again had to suffer. I for one have had enough the players are payed to play if they wish to play politician then quit football and run for congress or the senate and change things, Otherwise play the game.

[CantBeStopped]

2 hours ago, Narcosys said:

So what, what actual changes were instituted directly because of their involvement?

 

Nothing, especially when it came to Ali draft dodging. 

You mean the same way bone spurs draft dodged?

[King Colt]

It will be interesting to watch how Pennsylvania votes in the coming elections. They are not the Seattle Eagles or the Tampa Bay Eagles. They are the Philadelphia Eagles and that city is fundamental in the foundation of of form of government. This will linger in the history of pro football for longer than  Trump will live much less occupy the White House.

[PrincetonTiger]

20 minutes ago, King Colt said:

It will be interesting to watch how Pennsylvania votes in the coming elections. They are not the Seattle Eagles or the Tampa Bay Eagles. They are the Philadelphia Eagles and that city is fundamental in the foundation of of form of government. This will linger in the history of pro football for longer than  Trump will live much less occupy the White House.

So true

 

  Pennsylvania has been a bellwether state for years

[GusFring]

President Trump, I can still taste the vomit in my mouth when I hear that. I never say it aloud. Salute the Eagles. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I am not sure how he got elected because it seems like 75% of the people that live in the US hate him = Celebrities, Sports figures, the media, and most people I talk too. The media, Sports figures, and Celebrities can say anything they want about him on Twitter and not even get in trouble. Did people not vote for Hillary? Lets not get this story twisted either, it was the Eagles team that refused to go/didn't want to go so that was when Trump disinvited them. Of course though he gets blamed for everything no matter what. LOL

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not sure how he got elected because it seems like 75% of the people that live in the US hate him = Celebrities, Sports figures, the media, and most people I talk too. The media, sports figures, and celebrities can say anything they want about him on Twitter and not even get in trouble. Did people not vote for Hillary? Lets not get this story twisted either, it was the Eagles team that refused to go/didn't want to go so that was when Trump disinvited them. Of course though he gets blames for everything no matter what. LOL

Going down the wrong path here 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Going down the wrong path here 

I am done with this thread anyway because this topic about the Anthem is so old and worn out.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

It will be interesting to watch how Pennsylvania votes in the coming elections. They are not the Seattle Eagles or the Tampa Bay Eagles. They are the Philadelphia Eagles and that city is fundamental in the foundation of of form of government. This will linger in the history of pro football for longer than  Trump will live much less occupy the White House.

Not to get OT about elections, but if someone doesn't vote for a president because he didn't invite their favorite football team to the white house tells me that person is too stupid to be allowed to vote.

[aaron11]

9 hours ago, Archangel said:

This was not about the protest over the National Athem, This is about some individuals dislike for President Trump and his policy. I applaud the team for not kneeling last year.  President Trump has made it perfectly clear if a person or persons on a team do not want to attend a celebration at the White House the entire team would be disinvited. Its sad when some individuals  cannot put their difference aside for one day so that others who wanted to go were able to go.

not the first time people have declined. ill give just one example, tom brady didnt go meet obama

 

previous presidents didnt get all butt hurt about it 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

not the first time people have declined. ill give just one example, tom brady didnt go meet obama the last time he won

 

previous presidents didnt get all butt hurt about it 

Same thing happened with Chmura in 97

[TheMarine]

So apparently, it was just going to be Foles going to the Whitehouse as the rep. Thats it.

 

 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, TheMarine said:

So apparently, it was just going to be Foles going to the Whitehouse as the rep. Thats it.

 

 

I don't know what the fuss over this is about.  What's the point of one player going to the WH?  I kinda thought the tradition was for the President to honor the team just for some sort of pointless recognition anyway.

 

If the team is only going to send one or two players, then the message of recognizing the team's achievements gets lost.

 

I'd say a smart, responsible, and properly thinking President would just cancel the whole thing.  

[Nesjan3]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Boom!    THIS!!!!

 

OUM is the only poster to get this correctly.    No Philadelphia Eagles player took a knee for the anthem last year.    The White House assertion that this was in protest over the anthem issue is false.

 

Yes i have read an article today that states this exact thing. No Eagle the whole season one time kneeled for the anthem.....but a number of Eagles did refuse to visit the whitehouse in protest to the new rules surrounding the anthem. So for this Trump decided to just call off the whole event.

[TheMarine]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I don't know what the fuss over this is about.

The fuss is about he who hits 'Send'. Nothing more, imo

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Boom!    THIS!!!!

 

OUM is the only poster to get this correctly.    No Philadelphia Eagles player took a knee for the anthem last year.    The White House assertion that this was in protest over the anthem issue is false.

 

While this is impressive on the surface, I'd have to say its rather disappointing that someone would follow this entire stupid anthem protest issue to the point that a colts forum member would know that not one Philly Eagle protested during the season.  I mean, even looking that up is a complete waste of time.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

The fuss is about he who hits 'Send'. Nothing more, imo

Its seems like a peeing contest over nothing.  I mean, there is a certain logic about the leader of the NATION being upset when someone purposely disrespects the NATIONAL anthem.  You know, the two words kinda go together,  so its sort of his job to stick up for it regardless of what the protest is supposed to symbolize.  Getting vocally upset at a POTUS for sticking up for something NATIONAL seem to me more like trying to find a reason to be upset than the upset-ness being sincerely driven by this issue.

[TheMarine]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Its seems like a peeing contest over nothing.  I mean, there is a certain logic about the leader of the NATION being upset when someone purposely disrespects the NATIONAL anthem.  You know, the two words kinda go together,  so its sort of his job to stick up for it regardless of what the protest is supposed to symbolize.  Getting vocally upset at a POTUS for sticking up for something NATIONAL seem to me more like trying to find a reason to be upset than the upset-ness being sincerely driven by this issue.

Except its not about disrespecting the anthem.

[NewColtsFan]

29 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Yes i have read an article today that states this exact thing. No Eagle the whole season one time kneeled for the anthem.....but a number of Eagles did refuse to visit the whitehouse in protest to the new rules surrounding the anthem. So for this Trump decided to just call off the whole event.

 

Did the article specifically say the Eagles were not going to the WH to protest the NFLs new protest rule?!? 

 

Thats what it said?    Can you please provide a link?    Much appreciated.

 

 

 

[Jared Jammer]

1 hour ago, TheMarine said:

Except its not about disrespecting the anthem.

 

Then why are they so insistent on doing it during the anthem? Why not during the coin toss, or on the sideline during the opening kickoff?

 

When you protest during the anthem, you're creating the strong impression that you're protesting the anthem, and this (rightfully) is viewed as disrespectful by a significant portion of the American population.

 

If you're truly not intending to protest the anthem, then you would be eager to end the confusion by moving the protests to some other time during the course of the game. But, they're not. They're insistent that they protest during the anthem. Which means one thing . . .

 

It's about the anthem.

 

They can say it's not all they want. Actions speak far louder than words.

[PrincetonTiger]

Friendly Request from TigerTown  

    Take the Political talk somewhere else besides here

 

 

    

[21isSuperman]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't know what the fuss over this is about.  What's the point of one player going to the WH?  I kinda thought the tradition was for the President to honor the team just for some sort of pointless recognition anyway.

 

If the team is only going to send one or two players, then the message of recognizing the team's achievements gets lost.

 

I'd say a smart, responsible, and properly thinking President would just cancel the whole thing.  

A smart, responsible, and properly thinking President wouldn't have an entire team decline his invitation in the first place.  No other President in history has had this issue, regardless of their political views.

 

22 minutes ago, Jared Jammer said:

 

In the U.K., it's been dubbed the "shy Tory factor," and the same phenomenon exists in the U.S.

 

In short: people with conservative views are more prone to hide them because they know leftists are loud and intolerant (not to mention violent), and they'd rather not deal with the hassle. On the other hand, Conservatives are more laid back and accepting of those who think differently, and so leftists aren't nearly as hesitant to share their views, as they won't face anywhere near the backlash.

 

Also, remember that leftists dominate sleazy Hollywood and the fake news MSM, and so what you see on TV will in no way be an accurate representation of America as a whole.

The amount of inaccurate statements and flat out lies in this post is mind-boggling.  Conservatives are more accepting of those who think differently...he says as he calls those who think differently loud and intolerant.  Also, if your beliefs are things that are reasonable and rational, you would have no reason to worry about backlash.  There are plenty of views on the left and the right that are sound and rational and there are plenty of views on the left and right that are absurd and unrealistic.

[Buck Showalter]

Lol. This issue is getting to be too much. High drama at its finest & somehow manages both comedy & tragedy all at the same time...

[Shive]

12 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

I know capitalism isn't a political system.  But I think it does have a larger negative impact on our political system than some want to admit.  When some politicians are basically bought and paid for by the uber-rich, it starts to undermine the intent of a true democracy.

You're describing more of a plutocracy where the wealthy, directly or indirectly, rule.

 

7 hours ago, King Colt said:

It will be interesting to watch how Pennsylvania votes in the coming elections. They are not the Seattle Eagles or the Tampa Bay Eagles. They are the Philadelphia Eagles and that city is fundamental in the foundation of of form of government. This will linger in the history of pro football for longer than  Trump will live much less occupy the White House.

PA is also incredibly gerrymandered as well, or at least has been in recent years.

 

1 hour ago, Jared Jammer said:

 

There were no lies nor inaccuracies, only truths you find uncomfortable, thus, have decided to deny.

 

They say you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

I say you can lead a leftist to knowledge, but you can't make it think.

There's a reason the right is often referred to as "Conservatives" and the left referred to as "Progressives". Before you decide to label me as either, I'll just let you know that I dabble more in the middle, with a bit of a left lean these days.

[PrincetonTiger]

8 minutes ago, Shive said:

You're describing more of a plutocracy where the wealthy, directly or indirectly, rule.

 

PA is also incredibly gerrymandered as well, or at least has been in recent years.

 

There's a reason the right is often referred to as "Conservatives" and the left referred to as "Progressives". Before you decide to label me as either, I'll just let you know that I dabble more in the middle, with a bit of a left lean these days.

Great points

[Shive]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Great points

Thanks! Apparently me liking your post will make me lose all of my credibility though. 

[Yehoodi]

I'm glad that Trump cancelled the event.  If nearly the entire team does not want to attend there is no point in having the event.

 

Interesting but was not that long ago, 2011 when Tim Thomas of the bruins did not attend due to his feelings that our government was not honoring the rights of the citizens, and he got a lot of flak.

 

Now folks are doing the same thing.  I do not care what they do and view each refusal in the same way.

 

At the same time though if a lot of the folks refuse in protest, I got zero problem with the president cancelling the event.