NFL adopts new Anthem policy

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

One could say the same thing to those that don't like what the NFL is doing.

That is fine since this is America

 

    As a player/coach I always saw the anthem as Anti-climatic and therefore I rarely watch the game until kickoff

[backshoulderfade]

I think it is ridiculous that ones stance during an archaic tribalist song matters to anyone. It is of far more substance that these americans are exercising their right to dissent on which your country was founded.

[csmopar]

13 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Don’t watch or go

 

16 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

For the people that find issue with the protests there are three options

  Don’t watch

 

  Use the money you would spend at the game on something productive

 

   

That attitude is EXACTLY the reason why this country struggles to move forward.  It's the, "dont like, get over it and ignore it" attitude. Not productive whatsoever.

[Nadine]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

No, it isn't. But here's the thing.  And this is going to make a lot of people mad but it is a fact. It is not going to instantly change. Racism and the like are not going to end just because someone kneels. It is the unfortunate truth. Has it gotten better, yes. Is there lots of work to be done yet, absolutely. We, as a country, have come a long way since the Civil War but we have work to do. However, it takes ALL sides to end this issue. Right now, there's too much divisiveness to accomplish anything. And adding further divisiveness on an international stage is only going to slow that progress as people will tune it out.  The point I'm getting at is the circus it has created. Had Kapernick and others just done it one single time, I think it would have had a much better reception as the message wouldn't have gotten murky but would have still gotten the message.

I could never be mad a you

 

I actually think that things have gotten worse.  I strongly disagree that the first step to addressing the divisiveness is for people to stop calling attention to it.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, csmopar said:

 

That attitude is EXACTLY the reason why this country struggles to move forward.  It's the, "dont like, get over it and ignore it" attitude. Not productive whatsoever.

So you want everyone to be carbon n copies of each

 

  reminds me of “Stepford Wives”

[Cynjin]

7 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

A song that's original lyrical content contained significant racist undertones. And, it is still just a song, if the anthem is important to you great. However in a free country expecting someone else to  behave a certain way during a song seems like insanity to me.

 

The anthem is not the poem.  The anthem has never, to my knowledge, contained the racial undertones.  You're still wrong it is not just a song, but now I understand why you cannot see why some find kneeling offensive.

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

the, "dont like, get over it and ignore it" attitude. Not productive whatsoever.

agree

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

The anthem is not the poem.  The anthem has never, to my knowledge, contained the racial undertones.  You're still wrong it is not just a song, but now I understand why you cannot see why some find kneeling offensive.

Yes it is

[Cynjin]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

Actually they both can be and especially when they are paid for by the DoD they definitely are. 

 

You are just wrong on this.  I understand you are not from this country, so I guess you just don't understand.  Neither are political, some may try to make them out as political but they are not.  They belong to no political party or political ideology.

 

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I could never be mad a you

 

I actually think that things have gotten worse.  I strongly disagree that the first step to addressing the divisiveness is for people to stop calling attention to it.

I would think that minorities, including members of my own family that went through that period would disagree.  Sure things are bad, but there's no longer forced segregation or people being beaten to get them to pick cotton etc. 

 

I'm not saying to stop calling attention to it, I'm saying we're past the calling attention phase and we need to move into the problem solving phase.  Calling attention to it over and over is just treading water, problem has been identified, called attention to, so now lets fix it, together, all sides as a nation.

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

So you want everyone to be carbon n copies of each

 

  reminds me of “Stepford Wives”

That is not what I said. Do not twist and make stuff up.  I'm saying telling people to ignore something they don't like or agree with such as the kneeling is no different that those who deny the racial problems that exist in this country.  Its counterproductive and gets neither side anywhere. Using your own words, the argument could be made that any player that doesn't like the new policy should be barred from the league that way they dont have to deal with it.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

agree

Never a proponent 

 

     Instead of complaining those who have an issue should find something more productive to do with their money because spending hundreds of dollars on one day

[Buck Showalter]

2 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

The anthem is not the poem.  The anthem has never, to my knowledge, contained the racial undertones.  You're still wrong it is not just a song, but now I understand why you cannot see why some find kneeling offensive.

Lol, that's debatable... I would say the anthem is most definitely a song, I would then say, its significance is decided upon by the individual. Seems fair in a Free country no? So therefore why bother myself with trying to enforce a songs significance upon another, or even worse feign some type of outrage about how so.done else responds.

[Cynjin]

7 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

So you want everyone to be carbon n copies of each

 

  reminds me of “Stepford Wives”

 

Yeah, that's not even close to what he wrote.

[csmopar]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

Actually they both can be and especially when they are paid for by the DoD they definitely are. 

First, the DoD does not and has never paid for the Anthem. EVER. What they paid for was the extra crap like tickets, mini parades and fly-overs etc. Which they have since stopped paying...

[Jason_]

6 hours ago, Narcosys said:

This is true, that businesses have the right to make their own rules, but some choose when to acknowledge this. You have every right to express your opinion and views and no one should create rules that restrict this...so long as it fits within the approved spectrum.

 

well whether they should or not really is irrelevant.  the NFL has the authority to make whatever rules they want so long as they don't violate the CBA.  Any private employer has this right.  Now if the NFL were trying to create rules regarding what type of protesting players can do on their own time then I'd have a problem with that.  

[Cynjin]

8 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

I actually think that things have gotten worse.  I strongly disagree that the first step to addressing the divisiveness is for people to stop calling attention to it.

 

 

When did anyone say that?

[PrincetonTiger]

Do everyone realize that the Anthem Tune  was a Popular English Drinking Song

[Cynjin]

8 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Yes it is

 

No it's not.

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Buck Showalter said:

Lol, that's debatable... I would say the anthem is most definitely a song, I would then say, its significance is decided upon by the individual. Seems fair in a Free country no? So therefore why bother myself with trying to enforce a songs significance upon another, or even worse feign some type of outrage about how so.done else responds.

 

I agree completely.  I'll add in that I think it's ridiculous that men are forced to remove hats during the anthem.  Like I can't feel the same amount of love and respect for my country while wearing a hat?  it's so arbitrary

[Cynjin]

2 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

Lol, that's debatable... I would say the anthem is most definitely a song, I would then say, its significance is decided upon by the individual. Seems fair in a Free country no? So therefore why bother myself with trying to enforce a songs significance upon another, or even worse feign some type of outrage about how so.done else responds.

 

My question would be why you feel it's alright to be intentionally offensive to others?  Are you okay with other offensive behavior whether it bothers you or not?

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

I agree completely.  I'll add in that I think it's ridiculous that men are forced to remove hats during the anthem.  Like I can't feel the same amount of love and respect for my country while wearing a hat?  it's so arbitrary

So true

 

    Because of my health issues I rarely dross my heart and struggle to stand still during it

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Do everyone realize that the Anthem Tune  was a Popular English Drinking Song

yes. your point?

[onebad150]

OK, let me preface this by saying I REALLY hate talking Politics. I know there are some really tragic problems going on in the USA. Many people are being mistreated, discriminated against and this is not right or even close to being fair.

But here is my problem, I really enjoy watching my colts play, it allows me to spend time with friends/family. We may have a few beers, popcorn and snacks and just enjoy each others company. So why can we not just put all this Political problems to rest for 3hrs. The anthem itself is just over 2 min. long. There are many other ways to protest injustices. BUT why can't we just chill, relax and escape the worlds problems for 3hrs???

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

My question would be why you feel it's alright to be intentionally offensive to others?  Are you okay with other offensive behavior whether it bothers you or not?

It is only offensive if you see it that

[csmopar]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

So true

 

    Because of my health issues I rarely dross my heart and struggle to stand still during it

and that's a legit reason. But you try and that's what counts.

[stitches]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

You are just wrong on this.  I understand you are not from this country, so I guess you just don't understand.  Neither are political, some may try to make them out as political but they are not.  They belong to no political party or political ideology.

 

No, I understand perfectly .The US is not the only country in the world that has an anthem or a military, you know? Like ... pretty much every single country in the world has those. And yes - those are definitely political both in their intention and in their result. The fact that the military doesn't belong to a political party doesn't mean what is being targeted by those displays is not political and doesn't serve a political purpose. You can make the exact same argument about anything really - education is not political it doesn't belong to party or ideology... infrastructure is not political, it doesn't belong to party or ideology... economics is not political, it doesn't belong to party or ideology... etc. On their own they are not, but they are very easily interwoven into politics when those paid for displays aim to influence the public one way or another... 

[csmopar]

Just now, onebad150 said:

OK, let me preface this by saying I REALLY hate talking Politics. I know there are some really tragic problems going on in the USA. Many people are being mistreated, discriminated against and this is not right or even close to being fair.

But here is my problem, I really enjoy watching my colts play, it allows me to spend time with friends/family. We may have a few beers, popcorn and snacks and just enjoy each others company. So why can we not just put all this Political problems to rest for 3hrs. The anthem itself is just over 2 min. long. There are many other ways to protest injustices. BUT why can't we just chill, relax and escape the worlds problems for 3hrs???

Yay!! See @Nadine @NFLfan I'm not the only one!! 

[Buck Showalter]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

I agree completely.  I'll add in that I think it's ridiculous that men are forced to remove hats during the anthem.  Like I can't feel the same amount of love and respect for my country while wearing a hat?  it's so arbitrary

Right?  Kneeling seems just as respectful as standing. 

[Jason_]

13 minutes ago, csmopar said:

 

That attitude is EXACTLY the reason why this country struggles to move forward.  It's the, "dont like, get over it and ignore it" attitude. Not productive whatsoever.

 

Oh lord no that is not the reason.  There are many, many topics to which "if you don't like it, ignore it" is exactly the solution and those topics are anything that someone else is doing that does not hurt nor infringe upon another person's civil rights.  Someone else kneeling during the anthem should be no concern of yours whatsoever.  If it bothers or offends you, that's your issue not theirs.  But you have no right to tell someone else what they should or shouldn't do if they're not breaking the law.

 

The biggest problem with this country is the group that tries to force their ideals and beliefs on everyone else.

[Buck Showalter]

2 minutes ago, onebad150 said:

 why can't we just chill, relax and escape the worlds problems for 3hrs???

Exactly. That's why I don't care how others listen to their music.

[stitches]

9 minutes ago, csmopar said:

First, the DoD does not and has never paid for the Anthem. EVER. What they paid for was the extra crap like tickets, mini parades and fly-overs etc. Which they have since stopped paying...

Actually they HAVE PAID FOR THE ANTHEM. I posted this on the very first page:

 

https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/12de6dcb-d8d8-4a58-8795-562297f948c1/tackling-paid-patriotism-oversight-report.pdf

 

Quote

Unfortunately, contrary to the public statements made by DOD and the NFL, the majority of the contracts — 72 of the 122 contracts we analyzed — clearly show that DOD paid for patriotic tributes at professional football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and soccer games. These paid tributes included on-field color guard, enlistment and reenlistment ceremonies, performances of the national anthem, full-field flag details, ceremonial first pitches͕ and puck drops. The National Guard paid teams for the “opportunity” to sponsor military appreciation nights and to recognize its birthday. It paid the Buffalo Bills to sponsor its Salute to the Service game. DOD even paid teams for the “opportunity” to perform surprise welcome home promotions for troops returning from deployments and to recognize wounded warriors. While well intentioned, we wonder just how many of these displays included a disclaimer that these events were in fact sponsored by the DOD at taxpayer expense. Even with that disclosure, it is hard to understand how a team accepting taxpayer funds to sponsor a military appreciation game, or to recognize wounded warriors or returning troops, can be construed as anything other than paid patriotism.

 

[Jason_]

6 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

My question would be why you feel it's alright to be intentionally offensive to others?  Are you okay with other offensive behavior whether it bothers you or not?

 

 

Because I can't control what anyone else finds offensive.  If someone else is offended by my actions that's their problem.  We don't have to hang out.  We don't have to be friends.  I have no problem with that.  But don't try to tell me how to act or how my priorities should be set just because they don't align with yours or someone else's.  

 

My question is why do you feel it's ok to police someone else's behavior just because you don't like what they're doing?  That's an absurd amount of ego right there.

[PrincetonTiger]

Friendly Reminder from TigerTown

  A veteran came up up with the kneeling

[PrincetonTiger]

Not sure why what someone does in Oakland bothers someone in Gyro

[pgt_rob]

17 minutes ago, Nadine said:

But half isn't enough.

 

I'm optimistic and persistent.

 

For example, I'm horrified by the massive islands of plastic floating in the ocean so, I recycle everything I can and avoid contributing to the problem as best I can.

 

For me, this involves counter acting my husbands disregard for the ease of recycling.  Every day I retrieve the recyclables he pitches in the regular trash and put them in the recycle bin.

 

Will it eliminate those massive piles of trash floating in our oceans? No, but it doesn't make them worse.

 

I don't give up on people either

 

Hopefully we can get some players kneeling for recycling. We've GOT to get that going. Wouldn't that be amazing to see celebrity sports athletes kneeling for recycling. It's almost like we don't have something in place for that already? Hmm.. lol. I'm just kidding but I understand what you're saying. There will always be bad apples in the bunch. Racism is a thing. Sadly it will never go away. But that's not 100% why these players are protesting.

 

One reason why I think the kneeling isn't super effective is because many of the players kneeling are honing in on racism as only a problem against blacks or immigrants. What about all races? That's like getting a bunch of white players kneeling because they feel like they're the only ones being discriminated against. Doesn't make much sense. How about we do something to get rid of the "N" word? I hear blacks use that word almost on the daily. It's hypocritical to see a player kneel for racial discrimination but then use the N word like it's a no big deal. 

 

Same with famous rappers like Eminem. He supports the clause of blacks being discriminated against. But uses sexually derogatory and homophobic words in his songs. But nobody says anything about that?

 

There's so many hypocritical holes in these celebrity's stories that it's insane. 

 

[Cynjin]

4 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

I agree completely.  I'll add in that I think it's ridiculous that men are forced to remove hats during the anthem.  Like I can't feel the same amount of love and respect for my country while wearing a hat?  it's so arbitrary

 

Because it is respectful to do so.  I am somewhat perplexed as to why some of you have an issue with showing respect toward the anthem?  Are you okay with intentionally being disrespectful in other ways if it is not a big deal to you?  If I was in Canada or here for a hockey game and they play the Candian national anthem, I will be respectful even though it doesn't mean much to me as an American.  Why?  Because it is the right thing to do.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, Buck Showalter said:

Right?  Kneeling seems just as respectful as standing. 

The problem with kneeling is the symbolism it has represented throughout the ages.  Its that part.  Kneeling while your flag,crest or anthem is being presented is a symbol of defeat dating back to the middle ages as this was forced on the losers by the victors. It is an act of surrender and submission. While we are far removed from that time period, the symbolism still stands. Also, one could even argue that kneeling is actually surrendering to the issue versus rising above it, thus counter to what Kap and others intended

[Buck Showalter]

11 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

My question would be why you feel it's alright to be intentionally offensive to others?  Are you okay with other offensive behavior whether it bothers you or not?

I would never endorse purppsefully trying to offend people, but I think anyone who is offended by someone "kneeling" during a song might have bigger issues to deal with.

[Cynjin]

7 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

It is only offensive if you see it that

 

What?

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

 

Because I can't control what anyone else finds offensive.  If someone else is offended by my actions that's their problem.  We don't have to hang out.  We don't have to be friends.  I have no problem with that.  But don't try to tell me how to act or how my priorities should be set just because they don't align with yours or someone else's.  

If I had issues with what others do/think I Would be in a Quiet Room 24 Hours/ 7 Days a Week