indyagent17

NFL adopts new Anthem policy

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2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

So why did you quote me

   I see positive change

No, I see a drop in the viewership of the NFL.

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Just now, krunk said:

I don't think you can ever escape criticism for taking a stance on an issue, but I think Kaep could have done things in such a way where he still could be playing ball right now and still gotten his message across. You have to consult with people who've made moves like he made before you take action. And I think they would have pointed out the strong and weak points of his plan and layed out a better course of action to address the issues. .

Hindsight is perfect but if I remember right he went to multiple people including a former Green Beret to determine what to do 

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1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Hindsight is perfect but if I remember right he went to multiple people including a former Green Beret to determine what to do 

That green beret is not an activist.  I'm speaking of people like Jim Brown and some of the others from that cloth who have addressed social issues like Racism.

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Just now, crazycolt1 said:

No, I see a drop in the viewership of the NFL.

I hate to tell you there is a lot more than the NFL in the world 

    The protesters are not concerned about making things better for others not about an almighty dollar

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1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Negative words and name calling never solves anything

The whole issue is negative.  Protesting the traditional ceremony celebrating patriotism and togetherness in 30 cities because  2 other cities have poorly run police forces seems to be the definition of negativity.  

 

I'm in Indy.  What exactly does Malik Hooker want me to do that impacts Baltimore's police department?  Send a check to his buddy who's running a community youth program?  Yeah, sure.

 

If protesting makes no sense, then the cause becomes hard to defend.  If protests are based on lies, then its possible to conclude that the cause is based on lies.  These people are only hurting themselves and their cause.  The 70,000 act mad, but they're actually laughing.  

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2 minutes ago, krunk said:

That green beret is not an activist.  I'm speaking of people like Jim Brown and some of the others from that cloth who have addressed social issues like Racism.

Anyone cam be an activist 

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

The whole issue is negative.  Protesting the traditional ceremony celebrating patriotism and togetherness in 30 cities because  2 other cities have poorly run police forces seems to be the definition of negativity.  

 

I'm in Indy.  What exactly does Malik Hooker want me to do that impacts Baltimore's police department?  Send a check to his buddy who's running a community youth program?  Yeah, sure.

 

If protesting makes no sense, then the cause becomes hard to defend.  If protests are based on lies, then its possible to conclude that the cause is based on lies.  These people are only hurting themselves and their cause.  The 70,000 act mad, but they're actually laughing.  

If there was not illegal protest we would be subjects of the crown

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5 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Anyone cam be an activist 

What kind of protest has that Green Beret lead?

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1 minute ago, krunk said:

What kind of protest has that Green Beret lead?

You do not need to lead a Protest to be an activist 

   Anyone who speaks up on an issue or champions a cause is an activist 

      I consider myself one but have never marched

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14 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

You do not need to lead a Protest to be an activist 

   Anyone who speaks up on an issue or champions a cause is an activist 

      I consider myself one but have never marched

So if Kaep wanted to protest racism on a grand scale he should have consulted you or a guy like the Green Beret?   What experience do you have in leading something like that?  What experience did the Green Beret have?   Doesn't mean you can't seek his opinion at least to get a glimpse from the military side of things, but most certainly I think if I wanted to stand up in front of America and protest racism during the Anthem I would have consulted Civil Rights activisits and sports figures who've lead protests before.  Most certainly Jim Brown would have been one of those guys amongst others as well.  This is all in hindsight of course.

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32 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

If there was not illegal protest we would be subjects of the crown

So true.  I guess that would have to apply if we lived in a Monarchy with unfair laws at its root, since a Monarchy has a King. 

 

Having a system that rejected such laws is a good reason to celebrate our song that symbolizes that war and respects the people on our side who died for it.

 

Interesting hoopla over Harry and Meghan.  The biggest shaker in that lineage was when Prince Charles married Diana Spencer.  It was a huge deal because royalty married a commoner.  Royalty vs commoner.  Talk about a political system that has privilege at it root.  Good thing we rejected the concept of privilege 250 years ago too. 

 

And don't forget.  All taxes would go to the King's personal coffers, not the public treasury.  Star Spangled Banner celebrates independence from that too.

 

Wow having gone down several logical thoughts, all I have to say is...

 

God Bless the National Anthem.

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2 minutes ago, krunk said:

So if Kaep wanted to protest racisim on a grand scale he should have consulted you or a guy like the Green Beret?   What experience do you have in leading something like that?  What experience did the Green Beret have?   Doesn't mean you can't seek his opinion at least to get a glimpse from the military side of things, but most certainly I think if I wanted to address racism I would have first spoken with some of the people who had experience doing just that.

This is not about me or my abilities 

 

 

   

 

    

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5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So true, if we lived in a Monarchy with unfair laws at its root, it would be morally correct to protest those laws. 

 

Having a system that rejected such laws is a good reason to celebrate our song that symbolizes that war and respects the people on our side who died for it.

 

Interesting hoopla over Harry and Meghan.  The biggest shaker in that lineage was when Prince Charles married Diana Spencer.  It was a huge deal because royalty married a commoner.  Royalty vs commoner.  Talk about a political system that has privilege at it root.  Good thing we rejected the concept of privilege 225 years ago too. 

 

And don't forget.  All taxes would go to the King's personal coffers, not the public treasury.  Star Spangled Banner celebrates independence from that too.

 

Wow having gone down several logical thoughts, all I have to say is...

 

God Bless the National Anthem.

The FF were breaking multiple laws and got a few killed

  

  The FF saw a wrong and spoke up, Susan B. Anthony saw a wrong and spoke up, MLK saw a wrong and Spoke Up, Colin saw a wrong and spoke up

 

   The FF were strong opponents of civil disobedience 

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4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

The FF were breaking multiple laws and got a few killed

  

  The FF saw a wrong and spoke up, Susan B. Anthony saw a wrong and spoke up, MLK saw a wrong and Spoke Up, Colin saw a wrong and spoke up

 

   The FF were strong opponents of civil disobedience 

Did Susan B Anthony and MLK say the National Anthem was a symbol of unfairness?  The manner in which they protested their cause probably made sense, which is why it gained traction.

 

Trying desperately to stay focused here.

 

Nevermind, its too hard.  Its been fun.

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Just now, DougDew said:

Did Susan B Anthony and MLK say the National Anthem was a symbol of unfairness?  The manner in which they protested their cause probably made sense, which is why it gained traction.

 

Trying desperately to stay focused here.

 

Nevermind, its too hard.  Its been fun.

MLK was sent to jail and several Suffragettes were too

 

   

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This will lead to very little non mandatory participation of events by certain players which will make fans mad

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1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

If there was not illegal protest we would be subjects of the crown

 

Nope we can protest too, we just form an orderly queue to do so.

 

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6 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

MLK was sent to jail and several Suffragettes were too

 

   

Because the national anthem encouraged it? 

 

If you want to talk about the history of America, we can have that discussion.  I see that one aspect might be that because something existed in the past, it means we have to still be judged for it today.

 

By that standard, men are sexists.  Not because of how we are today, but because we used to drag women by the hair 5,000 years ago.   Sexists in perpetuity

 

Hmmm, that judging us by our history argument sounds more like a complaint tactic to justify getting money out of a current generation based on gender or skin color, in perpetuity.

 

Really just wanted to discuss the NFL anthem policy.

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1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Nope we can protest too, we just form an orderly queue to do so.

 

Thinking of the Boston Tea Party

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Because the national anthem encouraged it? 

 

If you want to talk about the history of America, we can have that discussion.  I see that one aspect might be that because something existed in the past, it means we have to still be judged for it today.

 

By that standard, men are sexists.  Not because of how we are today, but because we used to drag women by the hair 5,000 years ago.   Sexists in perpetuity

 

Hmmm, that judging us by our history argument sounds more like a complaint tactic to justify getting money out of a current generation based on gender or skin color, in perpetuity.

 

Really just wanted to discuss the NFL anthem policy.

IMO These protests have everything to do with Civil Disobedience of men and women like MLK and Gandhi

 

   If you don’t understand(learn from) history you tend to make the same mistakes

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3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I know.. I know..

 

British history is filled with all kinds Civil Disobedience(Violent and NonViolent)

   

   I hope I didn’t offend you

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

To the people who would actually do this, what a bunch of bunk.  The fundamental issue is that protesting the national patriotism ceremony because a few municipalities cannot control their police force 100% of the time is the equivalent of vandalism.  

 

Its like saying if you don't fix the problem I care about, I'm ruining your party until the commissioner takes it away. 

 

Another example of where people feel justified to act like parasites, use the visibility of the NFL to promote whatever social issue of the day they want addressed. 

 

How about this: They should reach into their own pockets and fund the social injustice programs they care about with their own money instead of committing vandalism, IOW bullying people with money (the NFL), until somebody else spends enough of theirs.


 

It's not a bunch of bunk and it's not a few police forces

It's also not just the police, it's every day people

In the past month, I've seen videos of people being accosted for speaking spanish, bar be queing in an area where it's always been allowed, sleeping in a dorm common area, walking a baby, inspecting a house (ie doing your job), checking out of an air b n b and on and on and on.

 

These are every day people living their lives

 

A good first step toward building consensus would be to acknowledge that this is not isolated and not just a few people and victims are just that, victimized by people who are racist.

 

I'm not saying that all people are racist or that all police are bad.  That's just not true

 

But it's far more pervasive that you are willing to see

 

 

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1 minute ago, Nadine said:

It's not a bunch of bunk and it's not a few police forces

It's also not just the police, it's every day people

In the past month, I've seen videos of people being accosted for speaking spanish, bar be queing in an area where it's always been allowed, sleeping in a dorm common area, walking a baby, inspecting a house (ie doing your job), checking out of an air b n b and on and on and on.

 

These are every day people living their lives

 

A good first step toward building consensus would be to acknowledge that this is not isolated and not just a few people and victims are just that, victimized by people who are racist.

 

I'm not saying that all people are racist or that all police are bad.  That's just not true

 

But it's far more pervasive that you are willing to see

 

 

Great post @Nadine

   

 

   This is a big problem

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28 minutes ago, Nadine said:

It's not a bunch of bunk and it's not a few police forces

It's also not just the police, it's every day people

In the past month, I've seen videos of people being accosted for speaking spanish, bar be queing in an area where it's always been allowed, sleeping in a dorm common area, walking a baby, inspecting a house (ie doing your job), checking out of an air b n b and on and on and on.

 

These are every day people living their lives

 

A good first step toward building consensus would be to acknowledge that this is not isolated and not just a few people and victims are just that, victimized by people who are racist.

 

I'm not saying that all people are racist or that all police are bad.  That's just not true

 

But it's far more pervasive that you are willing to see

 

 

 

           Thank you for THIS!!

 

I don't know if it will make a difference here,  but it certainly needs to be said.  I'm 61, and I've never seen anything like  what we've experienced in the last few years.  

 

Completely mind blowing...

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I hate to tell you there is a lot more than the NFL in the world 

    The protesters are not concerned about making things better for others not about an almighty dollar

I hate to tell you that people don't tune into watching the NFL to be distracted by anything but being entertained. The three hours of watching football is most peoples get away from everyday problems.

How many times have we heard that the NFL is entertainment?  It is not intended to address social problems.

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4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I hate to tell you that people don't tune into watching the NFL to be distracted by anything but being entertained. The three hours of watching football is most peoples get away from everyday problems.

How many times have we heard that the NFL is entertainment?  It is not intended to address social problems.

There is more to life than football

    I learned that a very early age

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47 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

IMO These protests have everything to do with Civil Disobedience of men and women like MLK and Gandhi

 

   If you don’t understand(learn from) history you tend to make the same mistakes

Well, civil disobedience doesn't count as just just because MLK did it.  There has to be a reason that makes sense.

 

Its about 12 pages now.  Again, what are the protests meant to address?  That cities with black mayors, black police commissioners, and black officers beat up and kill black citizens 1% of the time they tangle?  I'm all for being against that.  Always have been before I even became a Colts fan. Didn't need a rookie free safety to ruin my anthem party before I was against it.

 

What does Malik Hooker and Dwayne Allen want me to do about it?   Ignore data and assume they get beat up 91% of the time because that's what their posse's tell them police do?

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9 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

There is more to life than football

    I learned that a very early age

That is exactly why people tune into football. To get away from life and it's problems. I guess you think by taking that one thing away it's going to make things better?  I don't think so.

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Just now, crazycolt1 said:

That is exactly why people tune into football. To get away from life and it's problems. I guess you think by taking that one thing away it's going to make things better?  I don't think so.

I am not taking it away it is still there

   Here is a solution watch 2hrs and 55 not 3 Hours I enjoy multiple games a week a rarely watch a NA ceremony

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BTW, since this thread has diverted into american history, please read the following quote from one of the politicians who proposed to end slavery.  This aspect of history was was never taught in my school curriculum, so maybe others have never heard it.

 

I congratulate you, fellow-citizens, on the approach of the period at which you may interpose your authority constitutionally, to withdraw the citizens of the United States from all further participation in those violations of human rights which have been so long continued on the unoffending inhabitants of Africa, and which the morality, the reputation, and the best interests of our country, have long been eager to proscribe.

 

It was Thomas Jefferson, evil founding father. Said it in 1808.  About 30 years after the country was founded.  The slave trade began to end in 1794, earlier than that in the european countries. 

 

Slave ownership itself did not become illegal....for the entire US.....until 1865 because the South fought it.  But the northern states....most of the country....began to abolish slavery beginning in 1800, only 24 years after independence.  The Northwest Ordinance, covering the northwest territory which is the precursor to Indiana and the midwest, abolished slavery in 1800.

 

Seems like the FF didn't want slavery from early on.  Probably had to appease the Southern states to create the country in the first place...resources that were needed in order to defeat the British Monarchy who ran its society on privilege.  Nothings perfect.  Gotta take the bad with the good.  But those evil FF saw the error of slavery beginning in 1794, probably contrary to what you've learned in schools and in universities.  Personally, I had to find this myself.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nadine said:

It's not a bunch of bunk and it's not a few police forces

 

Thank you for this post. My ex was in Florida about 10 years ago at a conference for her work. The room she was in was back to back with another conference room and a 20' opening existed between the two large rooms for service help to get in and out. She was in the back of her room and could hear the large table at the back of the other room. It was a police conference. To be clear, I cannot even begin to say even some of the things that this table of about 24 policemen were saying. It was so hate filled, so angry, and so lacking in human respect....that she was crying in complete disbelief. A smaller table in that same conference room could see the effect it was having on her and one of the men came over and apologized, saying, "We are not all like that". 

 

To be clear, this was not a few bad guys....it was a very real display of shared police community hatred. It is not a small issue. 

 

This is not to indict all police...far from it. But to say the issue is being overblown is absolutely false. 

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10 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Not at all

  actors don’t put there life at risk 

Everybody in sports is an actor in a live-action play. Everybody on TV is an actor in a TV show.....

Nobodys life is at risk

 

The NFL's idea is to get viewers. If players kneeling makes a few fans stop watching (and apparently it did), the NFL had to do something about it.  Less viewers means less profit..and, by the way, cuts down the pot divided among the players.

What the NFL did here is a compromise....Many players don't like it.

But nobodys going to strike or quit the NFL/////because they cant kneel during the national anthem.

 

Players have to understand that they can protest anywhere but on the NFL:'s TV show and I think many do.

Staying in the locker room during the anthem (which was done for decades) will be the new protest.

The players who truly want to protest police misconduct...will (and already do) do it on their own time without hurting the game that pays them.

 

This is a good compromise

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, DougDew said:

BTW, since this thread has diverted into american history, please read the following quote from one of the politicians who proposed to end slavery.  This aspect of history was was never taught in my school curriculum, so maybe others have never heard it.

 

I congratulate you, fellow-citizens, on the approach of the period at which you may interpose your authority constitutionally, to withdraw the citizens of the United States from all further participation in those violations of human rights which have been so long continued on the unoffending inhabitants of Africa, and which the morality, the reputation, and the best interests of our country, have long been eager to proscribe.

 

It was Thomas Jefferson, evil founding father. Said it in 1808.  About 30 years after the country was founded.  The slave trade began to end in 1794, earlier than that in the european countries. 

 

Slave ownership itself did not become illegal....for the entire US.....until 1865 because the South fought it.  But the northern states....most of the country....began to abolish slavery beginning in 1800, only 24 years after independence.  The Northwest Ordinance, covering the northwest territory which is the precursor to Indiana and the midwest, abolished slavery in 1800.

 

Seems like the FF didn't want slavery from early on.  Probably had to appease the Southern states to create the country in the first place...resources that were needed in order to defeat the British Monarchy who ran its society on privilege.  Nothings perfect.  Gotta take the bad with the good.  But those evil FF saw the error of slavery beginning in 1794, probably contrary to what you've learned in schools and in universities.  Personally, I had to find this myself.  

 

 

I knew it from day 1 but I started reading HS Social Studies Textbooks at an early age

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10 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Thank you for this post. My ex was in Florida about 10 years ago at a conference for her work. The room she was in was back to back with another conference room and a 20' opening existed between the two large rooms for service help to get in and out. She was in the back of her room and could hear the large table at the back of the other room. It was a police conference. To be clear, I cannot even begin to say even some of the things that this table of about 24 policemen were saying. It was so hate filled, so angry, and so lacking in human respect....that she was crying in complete disbelief. A smaller table in that same conference room could see the effect it was having on her and one of the men came over and apologized, saying, "We are not all like that". 

 

To be clear, this was not a few bad guys....it was a very real display of shared police community hatred. It is not a small issue. 

 

This is not to indict all police...far from it. But to say the issue is being overblown is absolutely false. 

 

I'm so sorry.

 

 I'm glad that man took the time to come over to her.

 

It's not overblown.  After I submitted that post, I thought of several more examples that I've seen recently. It is un American

 

 

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7 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Everybody in sports is an actor in a live-action play. Everybody on TV is an actor in a TV show.....

Nobodys life is at risk

 

The NFL's idea is to get viewers. If players kneeling makes a few fans stop watching (and apparently it did), the NFL had to do something about it.  Less viewers means less profit..and, by the way, cuts down the pot divided among the players.

What the NFL did here is a compromise....Many players don't like it.

But nobodys going to strike or quit the NFL/////because they cant kneel during the national anthem.

 

Players have to understand that they can protest anywhere but on the NFL:'s TV show and I think many do.

Staying in the locker room during the anthem (which was don't for decades) will be the new protest.

The players who truly want to protest police misconduct...will (and already do) do it on their own time without hurting the game that pays them.

 

This is a good compromise

 

 

 

 

Everyday Football players put their life and career on the line and that is one reason many people do not let their loved ones play the sport

  

    NFL will never be pure entertainment for me since for the 1st 25 years of my life, it was Football,  24/7 365

 

   

1 minute ago, Nadine said:

 

I'm so sorry.

 

 I'm glad that man took the time to come over to her.

 

It's not overblown.  After I submitted that post, I thought of several more examples that I've seen recently. It is un American

 

 

So true

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6 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Players are not upset about the compromise they are upset about being told what to do

 

   How would you feel if your boss told you to start doing something tomorrow or you should be gone

       This is America

Yeah, I'd expect the NFLPA to have something to say about it.  They always do.

But, there seemed to be pretty good unity on this issue.  I would have thought there would have been some agreement.  Maybe there was?

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4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Players are not upset about the compromise they are upset about being told what to do

 

   How would you feel if your boss told you to start doing something tomorrow or you should be gone

       This is America

 

   

So true

PT;  I'm okay with it

My boss tells me what to do on the job every day.

When I'm off work, I do and say what I please....

 

The owners never said that players cant protest the police, city hall,.....in the community or on TV.

The NFL never said players cant do interviews on radio or TV talking about social justice

They just cant kneel during the national anthem because it upsets viewers of the NFL on the NFL's TV show and cuts into the owners money.

 

The owners have the right to make that money. 

The players still have the right to protest.

I think as time passes folks will see this is as good a compromise as you can get here

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