Defjamz26

Your Surpise Starter(s) for 2018

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Who do you guys think is a surprise starter for the Colts this season?

 

Maybe it’s premature given that it’s just rookie minicamp but I’m going with Kemoko Turray. I don’t think Simon will make it in a 4-3 and the opening spot is up for grabs. I’ll say Turray beats out everyone else including Basham and Lewis because of his incredible first step. Mathis will coach him up throughout the season.

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Deon Cain WR2

 

Nyheim Hines RB1/RB2 

 

Skai Moore (spellcheck) LB South Carolina 

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

Mine are Skai Moore and Hassan Ridgeway 

I agree Moore looked really good in coverage and I think Ridgeway fits this defense a lot better than the 3-4.

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Mine is Grover Stewart. I think he was drafted with the scheme shift in mind and with a year of experience and hopefully development, he could be our starting 3 tech. I remember them raving about his insanely fast first step and that could really help our interior pass rush.

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2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Who do you guys think is a surprise starter for the Colts this season?

 

Maybe it’s premature given that it’s just rookie minicamp but I’m going with Kemoko Turray. I don’t think Simon will make it in a 4-3 and the opening spot is up for grabs. I’ll say Turray beats out everyone else including Basham and Lewis because of his incredible first step. Mathis will coach him up throughout the season.

 

Really hope they can find a use for Simon but if not I hope they can get more for him in a trade than they did for Anderson. But I too have a good feeling about Turay. I can see him making an impact provided he gets quality coaching. He has great physical abilities and is capable of being a great pass rusher. 

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I'll go with Anthony Walker at MLB and Daurice Fountain as a starting outside WR.  

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They ain't cutting John Simon.  Get that out of your head

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Skai Moore.  He's got 2nd round talent and he aint got much competition on this roster.

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33 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

I'd be surprised if Morrison started anywhere and actually makes the roster 

 

Morrison might actually start at SAM which would be a perfect role for him. You don't have to worry as much about coverage and you can just read and react which is what Morrison imo is more comfortable doing instead of making coverage calls.

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3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Who do you guys think is a surprise starter for the Colts this season?

 

Maybe it’s premature given that it’s just rookie minicamp but I’m going with Kemoko Turray. I don’t think Simon will make it in a 4-3 and the opening spot is up for grabs. I’ll say Turray beats out everyone else including Basham and Lewis because of his incredible first step. Mathis will coach him up throughout the season.

I like your reasoning here. I do think the big competition will be at pass rush DE. Both DE spots could yield a rookie starter, but I imagine Mr. Sheard would be the biggest obstacle to that. I also think middle linebacker could yield a surprise but I frankly can't name anyone in this process. Linebackers seem to pop up with their enthusiasm levels. One more could well be a running back depending on Mack's health.

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1 hour ago, krunk said:

They ain't cutting John Simon.  Get that out of your head

Not sure. Colts' DEs:

Autry, 6-5, 270, 6,5M dead money, 500K save.

Sheard, 6-3, 265, 3,25M dead money, 4,25M save.

Basham, 6-4, 266, 3rd round 2017 draft, 209K dead money, 590K save.

Lewis, 6-3, 269, 2nd round 2018 draft.

Turay, 6-5, 253, 2nd round 2018 draft.

Overthecap doesn't have numbers for Turay and Lewis, but Wilson (2nd round 2017) has 1,3M dead money, 0 save.

So Colts' 4-3 DEs are from 6-3 to 6-5, from 253 to 270. Everyone has dead money in his contract. But...

Simon, 6-1, 250, 0 dead money, 3,28M save.

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Just now, K-148 said:

Not sure. Colts' DEs:

Autry, 6-5, 270, 6,5M dead money, 500K save.

Sheard, 6-3, 265, 3,25M dead money, 4,25M save.

Basham, 6-4, 266, 3rd round 2017 draft, 209K dead money, 590K save.

Lewis, 6-3, 269, 2nd round 2018 draft.

Turay, 6-5, 253, 2nd round 2018 draft.

Overthecap doesn't have numbers for Turay and Lewis, but Wilson (2nd round 2017) has 1,3M dead money, 0 save.

So Colts' 4-3 DEs are from 6-3 to 6-5, from 253 to 270. Everyone has dead money in his contract. But...

Simon, 6-1, 250, 0 dead money, 3,28M save.

Who cares?  It's all based on how tall he is?  Nevermind the million times the coaching staff keeps telling you he's the starter and that he Fits.   The exact words ballard used was he fits.   What else do you need?

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Just now, krunk said:

Who cares?  It's all based on how tall he is?  Nevermind the million times the coaching staff keeps telling you he's the starter and that he Fits.   The exact words ballard used was he fits.   What else do you need?

To see him fits in September. :) Not sure he can play 4-3 DE. 6-1 means shorter arms and lighter frame. Not good for 4-3 DE engaging with OT.

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4 minutes ago, K-148 said:

To see him fits in September. :) Not sure he can play 4-3 DE. 6-1 means shorter arms and lighter frame. Not good for 4-3 DE engaging with OT.

Nevermind the entire season you saw him playing on the edges.   It's not that big of a deal and Ballard has said the same thing.  Simon doesn't have a problem with setting an edge and holding up in the run game.  People make that stuff up just because they want to see somebody tall there for whatever reason .

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2 minutes ago, krunk said:

Nevermind the entire season you saw him playing on the edges.   It's not that big of a deal and Ballard has said the same thing.

First, not entire season, just a half. Second, as a stand rusher, 3-4 OLB. Colts want to keep him as a Von Miller-role player? Fine. As a 5-tech, hand-in-the-dirt 4-3 DE? Not sure. He can be good player. He can play 4-3 DE in college. But now Colts have 6 good (or just drafted high) 4-3 DEs and only Simon appears to be undersized and has zero dead money in his contract.

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7 minutes ago, K-148 said:

To see him fits in September. :) Not sure he can play 4-3 DE. 6-1 means shorter arms and lighter frame. Not good for 4-3 DE engaging with OT.

We ran the nickle on defense almost 2/3s of our snaps last yr. Dont know about you but to me this formations OLB looks pretty close to what hed be playing as a DE in a 4-3. If he did well in the nickle last yr doing essentially the same thing, there is zero reason to believe he all of a sudden couldnt do it because you call him a DE instead of OLB. 

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4 minutes ago, K-148 said:

First, not entire season, just a half. Second, as a stand rusher, 3-4 OLB. Colts want to keep him as a Von Miller-role player? Fine. As a 5-tech, hand-in-the-dirt 4-3 DE? Not sure. He can be good player. He can play 4-3 DE in college. But now Colts have 6 good (or just drafted high) 4-3 DEs and only Simon appears to be undersized and has zero dead money in his contract.

What does the word Fit mean to you?  It means it's not a problem schematically.

It's wasn't me who said this,  it was Ballard.    Stop acting like this is the first 4-3 DE who's been 6'1".

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2 minutes ago, krunk said:

What does the word Fit mean to you?  It means it's not a problem schematically.

It's wasn't me who said this,  it was Ballard.    Stop acting like this is the first 4-3 DE who's been 6'1".

Agreed 100%

 

Dwight Freeney is my all-time favorite player and he was 6'1"

 

Robert Mathis was "only" 6'2"

 

Not saying Simon is as quick or fast as them. Just that if he fits the scheme and the coaches like what they see out of him, I don't care if he is 6'1" or 6'5".

 

 

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My English is so bad? Sorry. Colts will not keep 6 DEs on roster. No way. 5 at best, and at least 1 of them has to play inside on passing downs. 2 DEs - our rookies (Lewis, Turay) will not be cut. They have to make something really stupid to force Colts to cut 2nd rounder. BTW, Lewis has played inside for Ohio State. One more DE - Basham. 4-3 DE from Ohio forced to play 3-4 OLB in pros. Can Ballard cut him? You decide. So we have only 2 spots left. Autry has 5 sacks in 2017, graded 78,6 by PFF, is 6-5, 270 and can play inside. Sheard had 5,5 sacks in 2017, graded 91,3 by PFF, is 6-3, 265 and may play inside. Simon had 3 sacks in 2017, graded 75,2 by PFF, is 6-1, 250 and CAN'T play inside. Dead money: Autry - 6,5M, Sheard - 3,25M, Simon - 0. So Simon is perfect fit to be cut. Will he? I don't know.

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15 minutes ago, TomDiggs said:

Agreed 100%

 

Dwight Freeney is my all-time favorite player and he was 6'1"

 

Robert Mathis was "only" 6'2"

 

Not saying Simon is as quick or fast as them. Just that if he fits the scheme and the coaches like what they see out of him, I don't care if he is 6'1" or 6'5".

 

 

Freeney was 268. Frankly speaking, Freeney and Mathis didn't have anybody to challenge them. And Simon has.

BTW, the way Freeney and Mathis played the run made fans mad, if I remember correctly... ;)

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13 minutes ago, TomDiggs said:

Agreed 100%

 

Dwight Freeney is my all-time favorite player and he was 6'1"

 

Robert Mathis was "only" 6'2"

 

Not saying Simon is as quick or fast as them. Just that if he fits the scheme and the coaches like what they see out of him, I don't care if he is 6'1" or 6'5".

 

 

 

I know I've mentioned this a couple times on here but having been around Mathis, he MIGHT be lucky to be 6' in cleats. 

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6 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

I know I've mentioned this a couple times on here but having been around Mathis, he MIGHT be lucky to be 6' in cleats. 

Exactly!  That's what people don't get.  Robert Mathis might not even be 6'1" if you see him in person.

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12 minutes ago, K-148 said:

My English is so bad? Sorry. Colts will not keep 6 DEs on roster. No way. 5 at best, and at least 1 of them has to play inside on passing downs. 2 DEs - our rookies (Lewis, Turay) will not be cut. They have to make something really stupid to force Colts to cut 2nd rounder. BTW, Lewis has played inside for Ohio State. One more DE - Basham. 4-3 DE from Ohio forced to play 3-4 OLB in pros. Can Ballard cut him? You decide. So we have only 2 spots left. Autry has 5 sacks in 2017, graded 78,6 by PFF, is 6-5, 270 and can play inside. Sheard had 5,5 sacks in 2017, graded 91,3 by PFF, is 6-3, 265 and may play inside. Simon had 3 sacks in 2017, graded 75,2 by PFF, is 6-1, 250 and CAN'T play inside. Dead money: Autry - 6,5M, Sheard - 3,25M, Simon - 0. So Simon is perfect fit to be cut. Will he? I don't know.

With Autry, and supposedly Lewis, having the ability to move inside on passing situations, there still has to be EDGE guys. Simon is more athletic than both and can hold up on both sides as well (pass/run). Honestly I think Basham is the one who's on the bottom of the totem pole. I believe all of the other guys are just better than him right now, including Turray and Lewis. Also, the coaching staff has reiterated that they want to have a stable of guys, on the ends, who can get up field. They don't want to depend on just 2 guys all of the time. They want a constant, healthy rotation, so that even deep into games, and the season, they aren't all wore out when they are depended on the most. 

 

I don't see this as a "these are the DE's and these are the DT's", I see this more as "this is the DL as a whole", especially with the guys they are looking at flexing inside (Autry/Lewis).

 

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Just now, krunk said:

Exactly!  That's what people don't get.  Robert Mathis might not even be 6'1" if you see him in person.

I'm close to 6'4 and I was looking down on him. 

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10 minutes ago, K-148 said:

My English is so bad? Sorry. Colts will not keep 6 DEs on roster. No way. 5 at best, and at least 1 of them has to play inside on passing downs. 2 DEs - our rookies (Lewis, Turay) will not be cut. They have to make something really stupid to force Colts to cut 2nd rounder. BTW, Lewis has played inside for Ohio State. One more DE - Basham. 4-3 DE from Ohio forced to play 3-4 OLB in pros. Can Ballard cut him? You decide. So we have only 2 spots left. Autry has 5 sacks in 2017, graded 78,6 by PFF, is 6-5, 270 and can play inside. Sheard had 5,5 sacks in 2017, graded 91,3 by PFF, is 6-3, 265 and may play inside. Simon had 3 sacks in 2017, graded 75,2 by PFF, is 6-1, 250 and CAN'T play inside. Dead money: Autry - 6,5M, Sheard - 3,25M, Simon - 0. So Simon is perfect fit to be cut. Will he? I don't know.

You really don't know what they are going to keep to be honest.   If you keep extras anywhere it makes total sense to do it at DE.  Especially with this defense we are running where everything is dependant on the pass rush.   We will see how everything pans out.  I think Chris Ballard is smart enough to know a guy who can play versus a guy who can't.  Yeah you shoot for the standard NFL sizes but when you know a guy can play you don't just kick him off the team due to his height.  Especially when you admit he'll fit in fine.

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7 minutes ago, K-148 said:

Freeney was 268. Frankly speaking, Freeney and Mathis didn't have anybody to challenge them. And Simon has.

BTW, the way Freeney and Mathis played the run made fans mad, if I remember correctly... ;)

If fans got mad at Freeney and Mathis for the way they played the run then their anger was misplaced.  Dungy said on numerous occasions and Teerlink said on numerous occasions that the only responsibility Freeney and Mathis had in the running game was if they had a chance to tackle the ball carrier on the way to the QB.

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1 minute ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

I'm close to 6'4 and I was looking down on him. 

Yeah me too!

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Just now, krunk said:

You really don't know what they are going to keep to be honest.   If you keep extras anywhere it makes total sense to do it at DE.  Especially with this defense we are running where everything is dependant on the pass rush.   We will see how everything pans out.  I think Chris Ballard is smart enough to know a guy who can play versus a guy who can't.  Yeah you shoot for the standard NFL sizes but when you know a guy can play you don't just kick him off the team due to his height.  Especially when you admit he'll fit in fine.

 

Ballard and Reich have also stated they want speed and explosiveness, so just from that I don't see how Simon gets cut/traded.

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Just now, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Ballard and Reich have also stated they want speed and explosiveness, so just from that I don't see how Simon gets cut/traded.

He's the epitome of the type of guy you want around these young players.

Lunch pail guy who plays with speed, toughness and explosiveness.

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1 hour ago, K-148 said:

To see him fits in September. :) Not sure he can play 4-3 DE. 6-1 means shorter arms and lighter frame. Not good for 4-3 DE engaging with OT.

 

Freeney was 6'1" though heavier, and Robert Mathis was 6'2" while being 245 lbs, sorry, not giving your "purely measurables based" logic much merit. 2 potential HOF 4-3 DEs there, so it can definitely be done. 

 

If you just want to talk Simon's ability instead of using purely measurables and unsound logic, we will have to wait and see. 

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So discussion started from "ain't cutting" transformed into "ain't fitting". Ok.

But when Ballard said Simon fits at 4-3 DE, he didn't say Simon is good at 4-3 DE, right? Ballard didn't say nobody else fits, or Simon fits better or are better at 4-3 DE. He said just that: Simon fits at 4-3 DE. That's all. He will play there and Colts will look at him and other guys.

Sure, I don't know what they are going to keep. But nor do you to say "They ain't cutting John Simon. Get that out of your head".

Compare Simon to Mathis or Freeney is just laughable. The later were superior pass rushers Simon never would be. Simon's sack number in his best season equal to Mathis' or Freneey's worst. So 6-1 Freeney and 6-0 Mathis have been kept for ability, Simon doesn't even posses.

For me, Ballard invested to much in other guys (through draft and free agency) to keep Simon.

As for "DL as a whole"... Sure, let's keep 6 DE, 2 true DT (Woods, Ridgeway, I guess?), lose one DT to injury and start to cry "They are running in the middle!" DT are not supposed to be fresh?

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2 minutes ago, K-148 said:

So discussion started from "ain't cutting" transformed into "ain't fitting". Ok.

But when Ballard said Simon fits at 4-3 DE, he didn't say Simon is good at 4-3 DE, right? Ballard didn't say nobody else fits, or Simon fits better or are better at 4-3 DE. He said just that: Simon fits at 4-3 DE. That's all. He will play there and Colts will look at him and other guys.

Sure, I don't know what they are going to keep. But nor do you to say "They ain't cutting John Simon. Get that out of your head".

Compare Simon to Mathis or Freeney is just laughable. The later were superior pass rushers Simon never would be. Simon's sack number in his best season equal to Mathis' or Freneey's worst. So 6-1 Freeney and 6-0 Mathis have been kept for ability, Simon doesn't even posses.

For me, Ballard invested to much in other guys (through draft and free agency) to keep Simon.

As for "DL as a whole"... Sure, let's keep 6 DE, 2 true DT (Woods, Ridgeway, I guess?), lose one DT to injury and start to cry "They are running in the middle!" DT are not supposed to be fresh?

 

I'm not sure why you think we are only going to keep 8, or in your case if we cut Simon, 7 DL? You're also forgetting Hunt, who I think might be a surprise at the UT role, and Grover Stewart. The Colts will likely carry 10 DL. Tomasi Laulile could open some eyes too.

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BTW, pretty much everyone of you in other threads agreed, that Colts don't have to sign free agents as of now, because there are to many holes in roster to fill and that free agents can't make Colts as a whole better. But now you refuse "to cut" undersized 4-3 DE in his last year with the Colts, when the Colts have other options to explore/to prove! More, that move will save the Colts 3,3M to roll over and spend next year. You are talking about Simon like he is outstanding pass rusher at his 6-1, and like he is the only missing part of Colts Super Bowl run...

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