Anyone realize this?

[lance_m8]

We landed 2 top tier guards in the draft that may have solidified our core 3 interior line and in the process we did not overpay for Norwell like the majority of us wanted Mr. Ballard is very smart.

[Yoshinator]

6 minutes ago, lance_m8 said:

We landed 2 top tier guards in the draft that may have solidified our core 3 interior line and in the process we did not overpay for Norwell like the majority of us wanted Mr. Ballard is very smart.

I don't think Norwell was an overpay. He's a top 5 G, regardless of the price. We were fortunate to get Nelson and Braden Smith, but it could of easily went south if Nelson was taken before 6. Ballard looks like a genius, but there was some portion of luck to it. We could of been down a creek as well. Luckily, it turned out well.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

32 minutes ago, lance_m8 said:

We landed 2 top tier guards in the draft that may have solidified our core 3 interior line and in the process we did not overpay for Norwell like the majority of us wanted Mr. Ballard is very smart.

 

There are plenty of people who still believe signing Norwell and going high-end defensive guy at 6 would've been ideal, but I honestly think it's going to be really difficult for Norwell to live up to that contract, and we would've likely had to pay more than the Jags did.

[Yoshinator]

9 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

There are plenty of people who still believe signing Norwell and going high-end defensive guy at 6 would've been ideal, but I honestly think it's going to be really difficult for Norwell to live up to that contract, and we would've likely had to pay more than the Jags did.

Looking at the draft with hindsight, I think the ideal way we could of went was to overpay a bit for Norwell to obtain his services, we could of then still got Nelson at 6 overall and had our G duo. After that, instead of drafting Braden Smith, we could of drafted Josh Jackson at CB in his spot and had the same draft with Turay and Lewis afterwards. I think that would of been a much more efficient way to build the team improving G a bit more and a no 1-2 CB as well. It would of only cost money to do so without any extra picks. This is with hindsight, of course.

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Looking at the draft with hindsight, I think the ideal way we could of went was to overpay a bit for Norwell to obtain his services, we could of then still got Nelson at 6 overall and had our G duo. After that, instead of drafting Braden Smith, we could of drafted Josh Jackson at CB in his spot and had the same draft with Turay and Lewis afterwards. I think that would of been a much more efficient way to build the team improving G a bit more and a no 1-2 CB as well. It would of only cost money to do so without any extra picks. This is with hindsight, of course.

Norwell signed a 30 million dollar guaranteed contract. You think it would have been good for the Colts to offer more to sign him?

Nah, they got two really nice guards for a rookie contract. Ballard will have the cap money to sign some pretty nice free agents after the core of the team is built to win.

I look for Ballard to have one more draft and then check the free agent market. Signing high dollar free agents just covers up the deficiencies in the core of the team.

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Norwell signed a 30 million dollar guaranteed contract. You think it would have been good for the Colts to offer more to sign him?

Nah, they got two really nice guards for a rookie contract. Ballard will have the cap money to sign some pretty nice free agents after the core of the team is built to win.

I look for Ballard to have one more draft and then check the free agent market. Signing high dollar free agents just covers up the deficiencies in the core of the team.

I really don't see Norwell busting, and he's 25 or 26, so I would of liked him for 5 years. Ballard got the job done though, so there's no complaints from me. My scenario was just with hindsight to secure a top CB who fit our system and scheme well. We fixed the O-Line though, so the goal was achieved, and there will be plenty of picks next year with an extra 2nd and 4th round compensatory pick to fix the remaining holes. The money isn't too big of a deal to me when it's a 25 year old that's top 5 at his position. I thought he was a special case at FA, but Ballard got the job done his way.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

35 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Looking at the draft with hindsight, I think the ideal way we could of went was to overpay a bit for Norwell to obtain his services, we could of then still got Nelson at 6 overall and had our G duo. After that, instead of drafting Braden Smith, we could of drafted Josh Jackson at CB in his spot and had the same draft with Turay and Lewis afterwards. I think that would of been a much more efficient way to build the team improving G a bit more and a no 1-2 CB as well. It would of only cost money to do so without any extra picks. This is with hindsight, of course.

 

I understand the logic there (personally I wanted a defensive player at 6), but our entire interior line is set now. It's made up of 2 1st rounders & a 2nd rounder, and the 2018 salaries of Nelson/Smith/Kelly combined shakes out to be roughly $4mil less than what Norwell will make this year.

 

I was sure hoping they were gonna grab a corner in the 2nd round, but those guys watch a lot more tape than I do, so I'm not gonna complain.

[Alex22]

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

There are plenty of people who still believe signing Norwell and going high-end defensive guy at 6 would've been ideal, but I honestly think it's going to be really difficult for Norwell to live up to that contract, and we would've likely had to pay more than the Jags did.

 

We may have come out better off in not signing Norwell - plus the sparkle kitties gifted us a 4 round (hopefully) comp pick next year. 

 

the jags have overpaid alot of free agents over the years and I do not see it ending well for them. 

[esmort]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Looking at the draft with hindsight, I think the ideal way we could of went was to overpay a bit for Norwell to obtain his services, we could of then still got Nelson at 6 overall and had our G duo. After that, instead of drafting Braden Smith, we could of drafted Josh Jackson at CB in his spot and had the same draft with Turay and Lewis afterwards. I think that would of been a much more efficient way to build the team improving G a bit more and a no 1-2 CB as well. It would of only cost money to do so without any extra picks. This is with hindsight, of course.

 

Paid Norwell and drafted Nelson at #6... That is would have been a waste, and tying way too many resources to our OL. We already have three 1sts and two 2nd rnd picks devoted to the OL, If they can't figure something out at this point several people need to lose their jobs. 

[Yoshinator]

45 minutes ago, Alex22 said:

 

We may have come out better off in not signing Norwell - plus the sparkle kitties gifted us a 4 round (hopefully) comp pick next year. 

 

the jags have overpaid alot of free agents over the years and I do not see it ending well for them. 

I guess it comes down too, we could of ended up with Norwell and whoever we would of taken instead of Braden Smith in the 2nd, or Braden Smith and a Compensatory 4th round pick with some savings. I think we did slightly worse with what we got, but Ballard did a great job considering Norwell signed elsewhere.

[Yoshinator]

31 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

Paid Norwell and drafted Nelson at #6... That is would have been a waste, and tying way too many resources to our OL. We already have three 1sts and two 2nd rnd picks devoted to the OL, If they can't figure something out at this point several people need to lose their jobs. 

We have a lot of resources invested either way. A highly paid FA and a 1st, or a 1st and a 2nd. There's arguments for and against signing Norwell, but yours isn't exactly the best.

[Imrryr]

43 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

Paid Norwell and drafted Nelson at #6... That is would have been a waste, and tying way too many resources to our OL. We already have three 1sts and two 2nd rnd picks devoted to the OL, If they can't figure something out at this point several people need to lose their jobs. 

several people did

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Looking at the draft with hindsight, I think the ideal way we could of went was to overpay a bit for Norwell to obtain his services, we could of then still got Nelson at 6 overall and had our G duo. After that, instead of drafting Braden Smith, we could of drafted Josh Jackson at CB in his spot and had the same draft with Turay and Lewis afterwards. I think that would of been a much more efficient way to build the team improving G a bit more and a no 1-2 CB as well. It would of only cost money to do so without any extra picks. This is with hindsight, of course.

Im not sure how old Norwell is and or how much is in the tank, but we now have what appears to be a solid core in the middle of our oline for years to come. Next year we probably look at tackles. He sat on that cap money to boost roster in the next couple years. Year 2 of a rebuild not the time to break the bank roll open. Not to mention some of our own guys will be looking for payday so he sat on it for that reason also. Just my $.02.

[Yoshinator]

20 minutes ago, Mr.NotSoCreative said:

Im not sure how old Norwell is and or how much is in the tank, but we now have what appears to be a solid core in the middle of our oline for years to come. Next year we probably look at tackles. He sat on that cap money to boost roster in the next couple years. Year 2 of a rebuild not the time to break the bank roll open. Not to mention some of our own guys will be looking for payday so he sat on it for that reason also. Just my $.02.

Norwell is 25 or 26, which was my main motivation behind wanting him. A top 5 G for 5 years would of been worth it IMO. I understand the logic though, and Ballard did what he had too to improve the O-Line. No complaints here.

[jimmy g]

We also have no idea of what Ballard offered.  He might have actually offered the Moon, but Norwell might have simply liked Jax better.  I like how it worked out.  Colts have had enough bad breaks. Time to even things out and start fresh.

[csmopar]

47 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Norwell is 25 or 26, which was my main motivation behind wanting him. A top 5 G for 5 years would of been worth it IMO. I understand the logic though, and Ballard did what he had too to improve the O-Line. No complaints here.

You're also assuming Norwell was interested in signing with us given his options. It's entirely possible that Ballard was the high bidder but Norwell chose to take a lower offer from a better ranked team

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

You're also assuming Norwell was interested in signing with us given his options. It's entirely possible that Ballard was the high bidder but Norwell chose to take a lower offer from a better ranked team

That's 100% true. Knowing what we know now about how much Ballard wanted to improve the interior line, he very well may of offered Norwell something substantial. He definitely did everything he could during the draft to get both Guards.

[That Guy]

We’re not really pressed for cap space right now.  I like the way things ended up, but let’s not kid ourselves into thinking Norwell would have been a bad signing.

 

Hopefully we show enough improvement this year to attract some players in free agency next year.  We had too many question marks to be an attractive team this year.

[esmort]

5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

You're also assuming Norwell was interested in signing with us given his options. It's entirely possible that Ballard was the high bidder but Norwell chose to take a lower offer from a better ranked team

 

I don't think Ballard was the high bidder... I think it would have leaked (likely by someone in Jags organization) if Norwell turned down a higher offer from a Division rival. 

[esmort]

2 minutes ago, That Guy said:

We’re not really pressed for cap space right now.  I like the way things ended up, but let’s not kid ourselves into thinking Norwell would have been a bad signing.

 

Hopefully we show enough improvement this year to attract some players in free agency next year.  We had too many question marks to be an attractive team this year.

 

I think it was less about attractiveness and more about how much Ballard was willing to pay at this point in the rebuild. 

[Hoosiernsavga]

I love the Nelson and Smith pick and not signing Norwell to that huge contract. The only thing I would of liked to have done differently is if we could have pick up MLB Anthony Hitchens for his money who is familiar with Eberflus defensive scheme who could have been the leader of this young Colts defense. Him and Leonard together would be amazing IMO! 

[WoolMagnet]

Im curious.

anyone know what nelson and smith's contracts will be?  Since they are really already determined.

1st round picks have 5th year options i inow.

 

[WoolMagnet]

26 minutes ago, Hoosiernsavga said:

I love the Nelson and Smith pick and not signing Norwell to that huge contract. The only thing I would of liked to have done differently is if we could have pick up MLB Anthony Hitchens for his money who is familiar with Eberflus defensive scheme who could have been the leader of this young Colts defense. Him and Leonard together would be amazing IMO! 

It really looked ks like Ballard is willing to give vets 1 year deals but not more usually. Even the longer term deals (hankins) alllw uscto get out unscathed.   

  Ballard has repeatedly stated he wants to build thru the draft.  From within, long-term.  His signing attitude toward vets reflects this.

  I also like how he built draft capital this and next year.

 

for some reason, i can picture this young team starting to come together mid-season and being very exciting to watch.  On both sides of the ball.  Sure, anothrr season or two to fully rebuild this team, but i think we can all agree there is a clear plan.  Time will tell how well it was executed.

[Yoshinator]

40 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

It really looked ks like Ballard is willing to give vets 1 year deals but not more usually. Even the longer term deals (hankins) alllw uscto get out unscathed.   

  Ballard has repeatedly stated he wants to build thru the draft.  From within, long-term.  His signing attitude toward vets reflects this.

  I also like how he built draft capital this and next year.

 

for some reason, i can picture this young team starting to come together mid-season and being very exciting to watch.  On both sides of the ball.  Sure, anothrr season or two to fully rebuild this team, but i think we can all agree there is a clear plan.  Time will tell how well it was executed.

One huge positive about signing players to one year deals is that if they perform well, let them go and gain a compensatory pick. Ballard is starting to turn us into the Ravens, Packers, Broncos, and Patriots in the way of gaining compensatory picks. Release and rebuild through the draft! An endless supply if done right.

[LockeDown]

33 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

One huge positive about signing players to one year deals is that if they perform well, let them go and gain a compensatory pick. Ballard is starting to turn us into the Ravens, Packers, Broncos, and Patriots in the way of gaining compensatory picks. Release and rebuild through the draft! An endless supply if done right.

Ozzie is retiring, so maybe Ballard takes over as the best GM..or at least one of the best....could happen

[WoolMagnet]

47 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

One huge positive about signing players to one year deals is that if they perform well, let them go and gain a compensatory pick. Ballard is starting to turn us into the Ravens, Packers, Broncos, and Patriots in the way of gaining compensatory picks. Release and rebuild through the draft! An endless supply if done right.

Agreed.  We'll see in time how his picks pan out.  But i gotta say, he seems to really kjow how to do the GM thing.  I LOVE how we gained draft capital, and i agree, compensatory picks ate huge.  This draft mad me realize how even 4th, 5th, and 6th round picks are more valuable than i originally thought. You can trade them now too.  They are great to package, or grab someone you like before UDFA..

Once again, we'll see on draft picks, but other than really mis-reading and trusting McDaniels, I really like what Ballard is doing.  And when our own home-grown talent are free-agents, We'll have the money to keep them.  The guard Norwell or other free agents would have been nice, but Ballard seems uneasy to take that big $ risk on players we havent had in-house as players so we really only have tape to go by.  Hard to argue that since i have trouble remembering the last big $ FA  really "earning" the big contract.  It seems many dont even last thru the contract:

[Mitch Connors]

8 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Im curious.

anyone know what nelson and smith's contracts will be?  Since they are really already determined.

1st round picks have 5th year options i inow.

 

 

                              TOTAL CONTRACT                       SIGNING BONUS

 Quenton Nelson          $24,228,952                                 $15,691,456

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer/2018/04/27/2018-nfl-draft-1st-round-rookie-salary-projections-what-mayfield-barkley-and-darnold-will-make/#7c1c762b4581

 

The article explains how those numbers are pulled.

[aaron11]

15 hours ago, lance_m8 said:

We landed 2 top tier guards in the draft that may have solidified our core 3 interior line and in the process we did not overpay for Norwell like the majority of us wanted Mr. Ballard is very smart.

i like what we did, but we could have also paid norwell and used those picks on something else

 

we had plenty of cap space to do whatever really

[Hoose]

The Colts had a solid draft. Norwell signed with the Jags because of taxes and lifestyle. All things being equal, the Jags will always have that over the Colts. Ballard wasn't willing to get crazy with the offer in order to overcome the Jags' advantages. No use crying over spilt milk.

 

What will be interesting is to see if Ballard tries to plug another CB into the mix. Breeland, for example, or someone who is unexpectedly cut. That is the one spot where the draft was a miss.....there is an urgent need for more CB talent. Lots of question marks and a whole lot of hope from the fan base. 

[Myles]

I think it turned out good for the Colts.  May have been better with Norwell, but he probably chose Jax for his own reasons.   They are a team on the way up, so I don't fault him.  

[Mitch Connors]

2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i like what we did, but we could have also paid norwell and used those picks on something else

 

we had plenty of cap space to do whatever really

 

Thats the big question for me. Im extremely happy with the draft but I dont know the cap enough to know what happens when we leave money on the table at year end. For example, if we finish 26 million under the cap in 2018 what does that mean for 2019? If we simply lose that money then its an opportunity cost loss that could have been managed better. If it rolls over then Ballard played this 100% perfectly (in my opinion).

[Valpo2004]

Ultimately the cupboard is still pretty bare at most of the linebacker spots, RB (need a guy who can run between the tackles), WR2, and CB.  

 

Signing a couple of guys to solidify some spots so we where not forced to draft them and could have drafted elsewhere wouldn't have been a bad idea.  

 

Colts likely still are not a playoff team.

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, Mitch Connors said:

For example, if we finish 26 million under the cap in 2018 what does that mean for 2019? 

it can roll over, but you have to spend a certain percent of it over a 4 year period i think 

[DaColts85]

22 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

it can roll over, but you have to spend a certain percent of it over a 4 year period i think 

Correct over 4 years they have to spend 89% of total cap I believe.