BlueShoe

Lots of people will be retracting their statements about Darius Leonard.

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I will also join you on the island. When the Colts took Nelson at #6 I was torn. It was an excellent pick, and one I actually wanted and thought we needed, but I also wanted Roquan since I thought we also needed an alpha on the defense.

I knew the other 3 LB's who would go in the first, and in the second when Darius's name was announced, I yelled yes. I loved him, he is fast, and he is a great tackler and can cover. Roquan due to stature and wait sometimes can be blocked, my only ding against him. DL never missed tackles. In an early Walter Football draft they had him going to us at #49. I agree I don't think he would have been there, and it was the right choice inho. You have to follow your draft board, and in the end, this is exactly what Ballard did.

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I just read a piece by Justis Mosqueda, who I'm losing respect for by the minute, about the worst picks in the draft. He listed Leonard as one of the worst picks because.... wait of it... you cannot guess why... just try to guess it...

 

 

 


because in other years other players from FCS level were not selected this high. Yes, this is the type of argumentation you get from pundits PAID to write and talk about football. It's almost as if different players have different skills and physical profiles that might warrant different draft slots... ALMOST... 

 

and because....

 

... we should have gotten a running back this high instead... 
 

 

 

I won't link the article because I don't want to give additional clicks to this stupidity. 

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Blueshoe has lots of credibility when it comes to the subject, Braveheart just wanted to say that he trusts Ballard and not him because he takes offense to his tone basically. No need to take a potshot. If Braveheart had draft knowledge or put up a solid debate, I'd ignore it, but just saying you trust Ballard to say it is basically spam. I can talk great about Bill Gates and how he's more successful than someone on here, but I don't do it. 

 

Blueshoe talked to me about how there was a ton of depth at LBer in this draft, and he backed it up. There were a lot of people who think Leonard is a reach, and a lot of them aren't near as knowledgeable as Blueshoe. He's putting himself out there with this comment, and I respect that. He'll probably be right in the end as well, and that has nothing to do with Ballard, it has to do with his own personal evaluations. 

 

I would disagree that the "trust Ballard" argument is spam.  As you point out, @braveheartcolt may not know much about the draft and I am in the same boat, and so all we can do is assume Ballard and his team of scouts knows more than us about prospects, as well as anyone on here.  Its the logical base position and BHC obviously took exception to the tone of the OP, which is up to him.

 

I have read a lot of @BlueShoe's posts with interest of late and he seems to know what he is talking about but, at the end of the day, I have no idea whether he is right or not and would not presume to know either way, nor tell him so. 

 

I don't have an issue with nonsense putting across his opinion, but to say in the OP, "if I am wrong (which I am not)..." is a bit over the top for me.

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35 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

This thread could have just been about Darius Leonard, and that would have been great because I'm excited about him.

 

But @BlueShoe decided to make it more about being right and other members being wrong, which is kind of a jerk-move.

 

Why not just @ the people they disagree with in the OP while they're at it?  If you're going to make a "call-out" thread, then actually @ the people you're calling out...

 

:dunno:

 

This is my take on it. People here are more lavish with criticism than praise, that is a fact. And @csmopar is right about the fact that telling it like it is "was" the way people talked about it.

 

However, times are different now, and the medium "I told you so or I demand your respect" evokes harsh reactions or responses here on this forum, I have forgotten how many times it has actually happened here (some folks here probably remember someone mocking Keanu Neal in round 1 in a mock draft, taking flak for it, and coming back to say I told you so and still getting flak :)). However, if you do not let it cloud the actual message about Darius Leonard, the message is a sound one. It is the same thing Colin is being chastised for, the medium and the manner he chose to protest, than the message itself. 

 

Both sides have some merits to how they perceive things, but having seen plenty of sniping on this forum lately, I'd just request to let us all focus on the message i.e. how good Darius Leonard is and can be. Thanks.

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12 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

 

Some of you know my thoughts on DL. I’ve been preaching it for months. DL was my second favorite player for us in this draft, behind Nelson. 

 

I

 

On top of everything you just said... just look at the guy, he's an absolute beast.

 

29497376_1686219718126357_41055179707169

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17 minutes ago, chad72 said:

"I told you so or I demand your respect"

 

That's how it came off to me.  Like a passive-aggressive, pre-emptive "I told you so".

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22 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

On top of everything you just said... just look at the guy, he's an absolute beast.

 

29497376_1686219718126357_41055179707169

 

Wow, his arms don't even look real! 

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28 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

On top of everything you just said... just look at the guy, he's an absolute beast.

 

29497376_1686219718126357_41055179707169

Im a fan, and belive he will be a contributor, year 1,

 

but

 

I wonder if he just forgot that there is also a machine/excercise called the leg press......

 

His arms are the same size as his thighs

 

Just say'en  

 

 

 

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Lastly, this thread is a great example of why people ultimately get off of forums

 

1) Everyone is allowed to have an opinion

 

2) Everyone here is probably NOT a paid scout......... we read something, we watch something,

and all of a sudden, that opinion is RIGHT

 

No one here knows it all......  I had MOST of the mock draft incorrect.....   I will be the first to admit that

I am not an expert

 

3) If someone has a different opinion than yours... cut them some slack.......  lock step is boring....

being a fellow Colts fan should be the starting point.

 

Just say'n

 

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17 minutes ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Wow, his arms don't even look real! 

 

I thought the exact same thing, he looks like a comic book character.

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26 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I thought the exact same thing, he looks like a comic book character.

 

45 minutes ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Wow, his arms don't even look real! 

 

40 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Im a fan, and belive he will be a contributor, year 1,

 

but

 

I wonder if he just forgot that there is also a machine/excercise called the leg press......

 

His arms are the same size as his thighs

 

Just say'en  

 

It's not just the bulk on his arms... they are freaking long, too - his arms measured at 34 3/8 " at the combine. That's longer than most NFL offensive tackles' arms... 

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1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

On top of everything you just said... just look at the guy, he's an absolute beast.

 

29497376_1686219718126357_41055179707169

I think his giant arms make his legs look smaller than they really are. Still, dude should probably have trained his legs as much as it seems he trains his arms 

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I think it’s funny how analysts tried to paint him as some small school high risk player. During the offseason process, no one got more hype and stock than Leonard. He looked great at the Senior Bowl and impressed everyone with his coverage skills. He was on almost every underrated draft prospects list and was a top 5 ILB in more than a few classes. The Colts did not reach for him. He would’ve come off the board soon. Fred Warner ended up going high too, which tells me we pulled the trigger at the right pick. He’s a day one starter IMO.

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

I just read a piece by Justis Mosqueda, who I'm losing respect for by the minute, about the worst picks in the draft. He listed Leonard as one of the worst picks because.... wait of it... you cannot guess why... just try to guess it...

 

  Hide contents

 


because in other years other players from FCS level were not selected this high. Yes, this is the type of argumentation you get from pundits PAID to write and talk about football. It's almost as if different players have different skills and physical profiles that might warrant different draft slots... ALMOST... 

 

and because....

 

... we should have gotten a running back this high instead... 
 

 

 

I won't link the article because I don't want to give additional clicks to this stupidity. 

 

I didn't read the article...but I too have concerns about him being an FCS player. Whatever the reason, they only comprised about 13% of all NFL players last year. And while there have been good, even great, players to come from outside the top level, it's not a common thing...especially at LB. Out of a pool of 6,000+ players each season, you would think there be more special players at that level.

 

Maybe it's underscouted...who knows. Regardless, I am excited to see what Leonard can do. Seems like he has had a chip on his shoulder for a long time...so hopefully he continues to play with it.

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3 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Lastly, this thread is a great example of why people ultimately get off of forums

 

1) Everyone is allowed to have an opinion

 

2) Everyone here is probably NOT a paid scout......... we read something, we watch something,

and all of a sudden, that opinion is RIGHT

 

No one here knows it all......  I had MOST of the mock draft incorrect.....   I will be the first to admit that

I am not an expert

 

3) If someone has a different opinion than yours... cut them some slack.......  lock step is boring....

being a fellow Colts fan should be the starting point.

 

Just say'n

 

Also, feel free to have a strong opinion. Just stop being offended when there is just as strong of an opinion in disagreement. 

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23 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I didn't read the article...but I too have concerns about him being an FCS player. Whatever the reason, they only comprised about 13% of all NFL players last year. And while there have been good, even great, players to come from outside the top level, it's not a common thing...especially at LB. Out of a pool of 6,000+ players each season, you would think there be more special players at that level.

 

Maybe it's underscouted...who knows. Regardless, I am excited to see what Leonard can do. Seems like he has had a chip on his shoulder for a long time...so hopefully he continues to play with it.

This is not a surprise and it's normal. Worse recruitment, worse coaching staffs. less money put into those players and programs thus worse players coming out of that level... on average... thus few of them make it in the league and few of them are at the very top... but that's why not 100% of our picks are from FCS schools, but rather 2 out of 11 this year and 0 out of 8 last year, etc. 

 

But among the huge majority of players who don't have the talent to play in the NFL, even at that level there are diamonds and potentially special players. That's why you don't say "well, Carson Wentz couldn't possibly be any good because he comes out of an FCS school". That's why you evaluate the players individually based on their own characteristics, skills, physical and mental profile, etc. and you don't automatically assume that because a player is coming from FCS school he couldn't possibly be... a great QB or a great linebacker or a great whatever... 

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42 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I think it’s funny how analysts tried to paint him as some small school high risk player. During the offseason process, no one got more hype and stock than Leonard. He looked great at the Senior Bowl and impressed everyone with his coverage skills. He was on almost every underrated draft prospects list and was a top 5 ILB in more than a few classes. The Colts did not reach for him. He would’ve come off the board soon. Fred Warner ended up going high too, which tells me we pulled the trigger at the right pick. He’s a day one starter IMO.

 

Bingo! We have a winner. :D 

 

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3 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

On top of everything you just said... just look at the guy, he's an absolute beast.

 

29497376_1686219718126357_41055179707169

Those are some loooooonggggg arms.

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I thought Leonard was a reach because of how I perceived the board. I do like that we drafted him, he's definitely a good prospect. 

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Just now, Superman said:

I thought Leonard was a reach because of how I perceived the board. I do like that we drafted him, he's definitely a good prospect. 

The thing I come back to is ... whatever we think of the player and his place in relation to other available players, what we know for certain is that Ballard had him as his best remaining linebacker. There is no question about it, he definitely didn't have anyone else ranked higher than him at the position(not Malik Jefferson, not Fred Warner, not Josey Jewell, etc.) so whoever was the highest ranked available LB on your personal board from those, imagine that Ballard had Leonard as a better player than him.

 

I personally liked Leonard well enough that I wouldn't even say he's a reach based on my board, but I thought we might have had a chance to pick him later as a 'steal' because there wasn't much attention being paid to him in the draft media... but I could imagine Ballard not wanting to risk another GM having him as his best LB in the draft too and actually picking him before our next pick.  

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I feel compelled to make a statement now in order to be able to retract it later. 

 

It all comes down to your own board doesn’t it, if you feel there were better players available you will be less enthused about the pick. Depends too on your thoughts on how much need shifts a value of a prospect.

 

However I doubt that the vast majority of of posters aren’t hoping he pans out and if he does who cares about where he was drafted. People get hung up way too much on draft position well into a players career. 

 

 

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My only problem with the pick is that he probably would have been available to us further down in the draft.

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5 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

My only problem with the pick is that he probably would have been available to us further down in the draft.

 

Possibly but I guess that is also part of the skill of being a GM, if you read another team or teams as having a similar grade on your guy it’s unlikely he’s there come the next round. 

 

I’m always cynical when teams gets a late round bloomer and later say “we had a 1st round grade and couldn’t believe he fell to to 5th round etc..” Unless there are off the field issues there almost zero chance you’d not take them sooner. 

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8 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I didn’t want Ricky Williams. I felt he had too many miles on his tires. I did not second guess Polian picking Edgerrin over Ricky. 

 

However, I did second guess Polian trading Marshall Faulk away which left us with a huge hole to fill. I also second guessed Polian for not trading the pick to the Saints and Ditka (for their entire draft). 

 

It’s likely we could have traded the Saints and still walked away with Edgerrin. 

Revisionist history how wonderful .

You didnt second guess Polian on Edge ?  After all the Ricky Williams  hype?  I did'nt question or second guess Polian simply put he proved to me when he took Peyton Manning over Ryan Leaf who like RG3 failed miserably there were those who actually liked him over 12 ..

 

Many on these boards like to pat there selves on the back & thats cool .  If you want to live in the past .

 

Marshall Faulk wanted more than Polian was willing to pay so a trade happened that benefited both teams .

 

If you have a link suggesting Polian was approached about a Saints trade I would love to read it I had never considered this option .

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8 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Make room, there are dozens of us. This was the pick I legitimately shouted in  joy over.

I'm all in on Leonard. I was very intrigued after the first few days of Senior Bowl practice and then I went and did my homework. He can do it all and do it well. If he's not starting day one, it probably won't be long afterwards. I can't wait to see him evolve into the player I think he can be. 

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I will go on record as acknowledging not being completely thrilled with the Darius Leonard pick.  I was concerned with his weaknesses as listed in the Lindy's Draft Guide.  He wasn't on my "My Guys" list.  I questioned why we didn't go after CB Josh Jackson, since he was still on the board.  I still don't see the "pop" in the highlight reel that the interviewed scout says he saw.

 

But that doesn't mean I'm not pulling for him.  Ballard certainly seems to love his small/lesser school players that shine against their own level of competition.  (see:  Tarell Basham, Marlon Mack, Grover Stewart, Anthony Walker, Darius Leonard, Kemoko Turay, Nyhelm Hines, Daurice Fountain)  I was a big fan of Basham, and I wanted to see him get on the field and show what he could do.  And a really huge fan of Mack.

 

So, we'll see how Leonard does.  I will gladly eat my words if he not only starts day one, but plays well.  Will be very glad indeed!

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2 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

If you have a link suggesting Polian was approached about a Saints trade I would love to read it I had never considered this option .

 

Mik Ditka approached the entire league when he publically stated that he would give up his entire draft for a Ricky Williams. 

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I'm just imagining Hooker, Leonard, Wilson, Nelson, Hines, Basham, Mack, Wilkins, Smith, maybe Fountain or Cain and more all playing and some starting in our first game.  A whole lot of young talent growing together.  

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

 

Some of you know my thoughts on DL. I’ve been preaching it for months. DL was my second favorite player for us in this draft, behind Nelson. 

 

Lets face it, it won't take a lot to crack this LB depth chart. We have very little talent there especially going to a 4-3 alignment. Obviously Will is the most important position in the 4-3 LB corp. Sounds like a solid pick me.

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10 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

On top of everything you just said... just look at the guy, he's an absolute beast.

 

29497376_1686219718126357_41055179707169

Thats a linebacker.

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2 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

 

 

.  Ballard certainly seems to love his small/lesser school players that shine against their own level of competition.  (see:  Tarell Basham, Marlon Mack, Grover Stewart, Anthony Walker, Darius Leonard, Kemoko Turay, Nyhelm Hines, Daurice Fountain)  I was a big fan of Basham, and I wanted to see him get on the field and show what he could do.  And a really huge fan of Mack.

 

 

 

Three of these guys played in power 5 conferences. If Hines played at a lesser school, what does that say for Bradley Chubb?

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14 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

My only problem with the pick is that he probably would have been available to us further down in the draft.

Not necessarily. What I usually find is that a player’s true “range” is usually 1-2 rounds higher than where experts or fans have them. Once draft day comes everything goes out the window though, because a players value becomes wherever he gets drafted. We all had Fred Warner in the 4th or 5th round and he went in the 3rd. That could have been his value from the start. Can’t really call someone a reach because they’re taken higher than where they’re mocked by analysts and fans.

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On 5/9/2018 at 2:31 PM, BlueShoe said:

He was 4 picks away from being a first round pick. That’s what the NFL thinks of him. I mocked him at 28 to the Steelers. I thought there was a real chance he would be gone before 36/37. 

 

This off ball linebacker class was incredible. For months, I have said the LB class was unlike any previous drafts in recent memory. People kept claiming positional value (which I do not buy into). 

 

I had 5 linebackers possibly going in the first round and post’s exist on this board where I talked about it (around mid January). 4 of the linebackers went in the top 22 and 5 in the top 36. The exact same ones I talked about possibly going in the first round. Keep in mind that before it actually happened, many people thought it was impossible. It happened, and it wasn’t difficult to see coming. It was an unusual off ball linebacker class, and we benefited from it. 

 

That's what matters for me. I hope you are right man! Honestly, the fact that he was the last one off of the top tier of LB's did not justify the pick for me. The Colts had (have) so many needs, they could pick a CB, WR, RB, ED, DI, OT etc., and not forcing a LB if there are better prospects out there. So the only thing justifies this pick is if Leonard was the best overall talent on Ballard's board. If he is indeed that good, I am fine with the pick!

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12 hours ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

The original post reeked of a drunken stupor....

Btw, this was meant as a joke, I apologize if I offended...my sense of humor can be twisted at times.

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30 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

That's what matters for me. I hope you are right man! Honestly, the fact that he was the last one off of the top tier of LB's did not justify the pick for me. The Colts had (have) so many needs, they could pick a CB, WR, RB, ED, DI, OT etc., and not forcing a LB if there are better prospects out there. So the only thing justifies this pick is if Leonard was the best overall talent on Ballard's board. If he is indeed that good, I am fine with the pick!

 

I personally think Leonard is a better prospect than Vander Esch. I had Leonard as my 4th best off ball linebacker, for a while. I think at one time I even had Leonard as my third best LB. The top 3-5 LBs were razor thin close.

 

The top 2; Obviously the big dog was a top 10 pick, and the freak was going top 20. 

 

The the only reason Leonard went after Evans is because of the quality of competition. I would personally choose Leonard over Evans for our defense. 

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15 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

My only problem with the pick is that he probably would have been available to us further down in the draft.

 

I think you are wrong about that. :D 

 

But we may never know the truth. 

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