Culture Change

[ColtStrong2013]

53 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Another decent thread concept somewhat derailed by personal arguments.................

 

 

Now now. According to crazy, this topic was garbage from the start... as is chester Roger's and anyone who says Pagano was a bad coach. 

[Peterk2011]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Now now. According to crazy, this topic was garbage from the start... as is chester Roger's and anyone who says Pagano was a bad coach. 

 

No one is saying Pagano was a good HC. But you said Pagano's system failed a lot of cornerbacks, which is just not true. Who were those "lot of" CB-s? The only I can think of was Patrick Robinson who was bad here and had a nice year in Philly (not good enough for them to keep him though). Not a lot of "lot"-s. Everyone else - Butler, Toler, Davis, etc. - had their best years in Indy. And some safeties too (Adams for example). The only guy Grigson's ever drafted high enough to realistically expect to become good player was D'Joun Smith. Did he manage to revive his carreer elsewhere? No. So how was he Pagano's failure?

 

Just look at the difference what happened AFTER Grigson was out and Ballard took over. In just one offseason,  he brougth in not one, but four new guys, only one of them being drafted high. Wilson, Hairston, Melvin, Desir, Moore. And surprise, surprise .... ALL OF THEM worked out quite well under Pagano right off the bat. Even Wilson, who had a bit rough rookie year, but still showed us enough to have high expectations in him for this year. And as Wilson admitted, even his sidelining happened for a reason, and that "doghouse" experience helped him in long term.

 

Pagano had to go, that's obvious. He had to go for number of reasons. But none of them was him not being able to provide a working scheme for the corners. He, actually did his job regarding that.

[Peterk2011]

(double post, please delete)

[MikeCurtis]

Who is this Pagano guy that is causing such a ruckus ?

 

The last I looked, there was a new head coach.............

 

Did we rehire Pagano?

 

 

Now for me, I am really mad about Frank Cush.......  sheeze, I am still mad  

 

If you like Frank Cush, you are just STUPID, and we will have an internet flame war for the next 9 pages......

 

yada yada yada .........

 

 

 

This isnt life or death.......   go hug your wife, go hug your kids, play with the dog a bit.....

[ColtStrong2013]

53 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Who is this Pagano guy that is causing such a ruckus ?

 

The last I looked, there was a new head coach.............

 

Did we rehire Pagano?

 

 

Now for me, I am really mad about Frank Cush.......  sheeze, I am still mad  

 

If you like Frank Cush, you are just STUPID, and we will have an internet flame war for the next 9 pages......

 

yada yada yada .........

 

 

 

This isnt life or death.......   go hug your wife, go hug your kids, play with the dog a bit.....

This topic was about the culture change... of course Pagano is going to be a point of discussion. If people dont want to engage in the conversation, then don't. It's that simple... really, it truly is.

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

No one is saying Pagano was a good HC. But you said Pagano's system failed a lot of cornerbacks, which is just not true. Who were those "lot of" CB-s? The only I can think of was Patrick Robinson who was bad here and had a nice year in Philly (not good enough for them to keep him though). Not a lot of "lot"-s. Everyone else - Butler, Toler, Davis, etc. - had their best years in Indy. And some safeties too (Adams for example). The only guy Grigson's ever drafted high enough to realistically expect to become good player was D'Joun Smith. Did he manage to revive his carreer elsewhere? No. So how was he Pagano's failure?

 

Just look at the difference what happened AFTER Grigson was out and Ballard took over. In just one offseason,  he brougth in not one, but four new guys, only one of them being drafted high. Wilson, Hairston, Melvin, Desir, Moore. And surprise, surprise .... ALL OF THEM worked out quite well under Pagano right off the bat. Even Wilson, who had a bit rough rookie year, but still showed us enough to have high expectations in him for this year. And as Wilson admitted, even his sidelining happened for a reason, and that "doghouse" experience helped him in long term.

 

Pagano had to go, that's obvious. He had to go for number of reasons. But none of them was him not being able to provide a working scheme for the corners. He, actually did his job regarding that.

Actually if you look up above, several mentioned him going to a conference championship (news flash: we got our butt kicked) with a less than desired roster. That is the same as saying he was a good coach. And it's still hilarious. 

 

He did not provide a good scheme. Period. It wasn't just about the corners. It was for everyone defensively. And he blamed the personnel for it. He could have helped a lot of people out by adjusting. His corners were left on islands always. And got burnt consistently. 

 

The new guys last year did not work out well. We still sucked. He refused to play Wilson because he was out of shape and didn't have a good camp. He still played pretty damn good ball when he was on the field, and many of us including Ballard wanted to see more of him. 

[MikeCurtis]

34 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

This topic was about the culture change... of course Pagano is going to be a point of discussion. If people dont want to engage in the conversation, then don't. It's that simple... really, it truly is.

"coversations" are a little different in Texas I guess

 

This thread looks like 2 people that each have to get the last word in.............  

 

Its not that important.....   You are a Colts fan, so I imagine that you already start from a high inteliigence position...........  (you chose the right team to follow)

 

I will say the topic in itself is good......  Pagano wasnt a good coach IMHO.

 

But....

 

Fight on..... I will back away........

 

Good luck

 

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

"coversations" are a little different in Texas I guess

 

This thread looks like 2 people that each have to get the last word in.............  

 

Its not that important.....   You are a Colts fan, so I imagine that you already start from a high inteliigence position...........  (you chose the right team to follow)

 

I will say the topic in itself is good......  Pagano wasnt a good coach IMHO.

 

But....

 

Fight on..... I will back away........

 

Good luck

 

 

 

I started the thread, so you are damn right I will get the last word in when someone questions or belittles my opinions and perspective. I know several true Texans that would be the same way, so maybe it's a case by case ordeal. 

 

Thanks for your support. Go Blue... I hope this years squad has the fight and (dare I say it... grit) that this forum does.

[ColtStrong2013]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/593187002

 

“We’re not handicapped in this offense,” Rogers said, “and I feel like it’s going to bring the best out of all our potential.”

 

-Handicapped... ouch. 

 

He elaborated: “It’s putting players in positions and groups that they’re good at. They’re really using (Eric) Ebron, Jack (Doyle), me, T.Y., putting us everywhere. (The scheme) is a lot more flexible. Everybody’s excited. Different teams that run this offense (Rogers cited the Super Bowl champion Eagles), everybody’s open.”

 

- offenses under Pagano weren't flexible? You mean that Grigson wasn't wrong when he said he wished Pagano were more flexible with his schemes... sheesh..

 

-EVERYBODY'S EXCITED... did you hear that guys? Not just one or two players. EVERYBODY.

[crazycolt1]

17 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Now now. According to crazy, this topic was garbage from the start... as is chester Roger's and anyone who says Pagano was a bad coach. 

I am sorry you didn't take my explanation as my point of view.

Right now there are quite a few in this forum that doubt we will win 8 games even with Luck back. But Pagano was expected to get wins it so because he didn't he is a bad coach in your eyes. It's hard for any coach to make adjustments when he don't have the talent to do it. But don't let that get in the way of your thinking.

You even bring up what Pagano did to the CBs?  Really?  Well the CBs were put in a bad situation when the linebackers couldn't do their jobs. 3-5 yards runs were turned into 20 yards gains. 5 yards passes were also turned into 20 yards gains. No pass rush and no running game but it was all on Pagano.

I am sorry you can't see the obvious.

[crazycolt1]

10 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/593187002

 

“We’re not handicapped in this offense,” Rogers said, “and I feel like it’s going to bring the best out of all our potential.”

 

-Handicapped... ouch. 

 

He elaborated: “It’s putting players in positions and groups that they’re good at. They’re really using (Eric) Ebron, Jack (Doyle), me, T.Y., putting us everywhere. (The scheme) is a lot more flexible. Everybody’s excited. Different teams that run this offense (Rogers cited the Super Bowl champion Eagles), everybody’s open.”

 

- offenses under Pagano weren't flexible? You mean that Grigson wasn't wrong when he said he wished Pagano were more flexible with his schemes... sheesh..

 

-EVERYBODY'S EXCITED... did you hear that guys? Not just one or two players. EVERYBODY.

There ya go. You own words. Everybody's excited in capital letters.

That is exactly what I said when you brought up culture change. You were confusing excitement with culture change.

Like I said before, there is no culture yet with this coaching staff and new players. Till we start winning we have no clue as to what culture this team brings.

[NewColtsFan]

13 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/593187002

 

“We’re not handicapped in this offense,” Rogers said, “and I feel like it’s going to bring the best out of all our potential.”

 

-Handicapped... ouch. 

 

He elaborated: “It’s putting players in positions and groups that they’re good at. They’re really using (Eric) Ebron, Jack (Doyle), me, T.Y., putting us everywhere. (The scheme) is a lot more flexible. Everybody’s excited. Different teams that run this offense (Rogers cited the Super Bowl champion Eagles), everybody’s open.”

 

- offenses under Pagano weren't flexible? You mean that Grigson wasn't wrong when he said he wished Pagano were more flexible with his schemes... sheesh..

 

-EVERYBODY'S EXCITED... did you hear that guys? Not just one or two players. EVERYBODY.

 

OK......

 

I think it's time for me to jump in here....

 

First....   the offense wasn't under Pagano...    the offense was under Arians,  then Pep,  then Chudzinski.   They have have been operating on the wishes of Pagano, who always preferred "chunk" plays,  but the day to day operations and the play calling is under the OC,  not the HC.   

 

Second....   my memory is not what it once ways...    I've lost a few miles an hour off my fastball,  but I'm pretty confident when I tell you,  I don't know where you got the notion that Ryan Grigson threw Chuck Pagano under the bus.     When did this happen?     When Grigson was fired?     If he said it then,  I don't care,  and it got lost in the massive celebratoin of Grigson's firing.     And if you're going to claim he said it some earlier time,  during his run as GM and Chuck was his HC,  then I've got a series of questions to ask you.....

 

Such as....

 

If Grigson had made such a comment,  why didn't it turn into national sensation?    Or a local sensation?  A GM who publicly throws his HC under the bus?!?    That's a headline story.    Except there are no headlines of that happening.

 

Where was the 1,000 post thread talking about this?    (And we've had several threads over the years exceeding 1,000 posts.)    Why are you the only poster I've ever read to make such a claim?   Why haven't i read this claim from any other poster who doesn't like Chuck,  and on this website,  there are no shortage of posters who don't like Pagano and would delight in repeating this ALLEGED crack from Grigson.    I've never seen this claim except from you.

 

If Grigson said it going out the door....  well....  BFD....    I think Grigson has been pretty exposed as a fraud....

 

If Grigson said it in his recent interview explaining his tenure here,  again,  BFD....    He hired the man!    He hired Chuck Pagano.   Grigson was the boss.   If he didn't like Chuck's scheme's he could've insisted Chcuk hire coordinators more to his wishes.  He could have gone to Irsay to try and fire Pagano.   Which he probably did.   And Irsay sided with.........  Pagano.    Of course,  then it goes back to Irsay trying to keep Grigson and Pagano from killing each other with the use of therapists.    

 

I find these random shots at Pagano to be cheap and unnecessary.   Flimsy at best and worthless at the least....

 

I'm sorry....    I don't mean to be a jerk about all this....    but I find this viewpoint a big mystery and I don't pretend to understand it.....