Culture Change

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

....and got this team to an AFC Championship game after 3 years of demonstrated improvement.

Worst coach ever.

Worst coach ever? I hope you wasn't referring to Pagano?

[Mitch Connors]

That line was sarcasm...

The reality is this franchise has been to 5 AFC Championship games and Chuck was the coach that got to one of those. Im not certain how anybody feels compelled to say he was a failure because its not accurate according to the results. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, onebad150 said:

The Culture Change I am looking for IS when we quit talking/mentioning Pagano and Grigson's names. That era is over, gone and in our past. We have several positive things to look forward to in our future. I am sure it will be fun to start enjoying watching the Colt's play again. 

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. And no matter how much I may agree with Rogers' comments on the surface, I honestly don't see what positive can come from making snide comments, on the record, that take shots at the last regime. It's just unprofessional, plain & simple.

[gspdx]

14 hours ago, a06cc said:

This was for sure a dig. However your thinking should be as a collective shot. From top to bottom the rumors about Ryan and Chuck were out there. Chester is point out the fact of instability. He now feels the GM and coach have a better relationship and direction this time around. 

 

Here is the quote:  “The first day I got here I was like ‘Is this what a real organization feels like?'” Rogers said. “Just the energy, the culture, the atmosphere … it really feels different. I’m really loving it.”

 

Don't see any comment about instability or the relationship between the GM and coach.  Seems like you are making some assumptions here about his comment.

 

That could be true but we don't know it from this statement.  Maybe he didn't think Pagano did enough to like a fire.  Or maybe he thought the game planning and preparation were lacking.

[WoolMagnet]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

 You don't even know the man but you can judge someone by the look on their face?

My, what a trait to possess.

I can read posts and tell who is a smart * too.

[crazycolt1]

31 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I can read posts and tell who is a smart * too.

Your own words.

Am I suppose to guess at what you said?

Look, beating a dead horse serves no purpose at this point. Why you feel the need to is beyond me.

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, gspdx said:

 

Here is the quote:  “The first day I got here I was like ‘Is this what a real organization feels like?'” Rogers said. “Just the energy, the culture, the atmosphere … it really feels different. I’m really loving it.”

 

Don't see any comment about instability or the relationship between the GM and coach.  Seems like you are making some assumptions here about his comment.

 

That could be true but we don't know it from this statement.  Maybe he didn't think Pagano did enough to like a fire.  Or maybe he thought the game planning and preparation were lacking.

I think where the issue was made negative is when the OP made it "culture change" the name of the thread without an explanation. He hand picked just a part of a longer statement for what reason I don't know. It was made more dramatic but after reading the whole comment it was more understandable.

Like I said earlier, The name of the tread is misleading.

[ColtStrong2013]

50 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think where the issue was made negative is when the OP made it "culture change" the name of the thread without an explanation. He hand picked just a part of a longer statement for what reason I don't know. It was made more dramatic but after reading the whole comment it was more understandable.

Like I said earlier, The name of the tread is misleading.

How was the thread not indicative of the statement? He literally mentions the culture difference in the article that I posted. I didn't quote just part of the statement, I posted the link to the article, so you are way off base by saying I didn't explain what the topic meant.

 

Yes I said it was a dig at Pagano. I think it was. That's my opinion as you have stated yours. It's a dig at the culture and environment that Pagano and Grigson created, which contrary to what you think, was not a great one. Many of those guys didn't realize until now the difference and it all is making sense. High energy, high competitiveness. My original post literally said that and Chester's statements go hand in hand. I didn't "hand pick" jack squat, I threw an article that hadn't been shared yet and stated my opinion on the Culture change that is happening. 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

I can read posts and tell who is a smart * too.

Don't mind him Wool. He doesn't know how not to be a * on a forum about football. 

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

11 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Exactly SW1.  It didn't help when the OP brought up 'culture change' in the title being there has yet to be a culture made at this point.

Every word that has been said about Ballard and the new coaching staff is word for word what was said about Grigson/Pagano their first two years.

I will not rehash the Pagano issues because it's all water under the bridge but all of a sudden this turned into a bash Pagano thread when it wasn't necessary at all. 

It's funny that even after Ballards two drafts there is still a lot that think this team is no better than 8-8 even with Luck. But yet it was Pagano's fault?  Yeah, right.  

There hasn't? I guess I failed to realize that Ballard has cleaned house and brought in a hell of a lot more young players through the draft with the intention of competition and development. Grigsom didn't do that, he bought players in free agency that didn't pan out. There is a night and day difference between Grigsons first two years and Ballards. Ballards first year, Andrew was on the bench. Let's see what happens this year before you throw out record differences. 

 

There is absolutely a culture set. Competitive, high energy, fast paced. Vinny's commented on it. Doyle's commented on it. You are just oblivious. 

[crazycolt1]

Just now, ColtStrong2013 said:

Don't mind him Wool. He doesn't know how not to be a * on a forum about football. 

 

 

You don't know anything about me. If you don't like my opinions that makes no difference to me at all.

Just because I said your title to a thread was misleading because it was incomplete and then explained why, the problem lies with you.

I couldn't care less about your opinion of me.

I get along with most all the forum members because they take things said with a grain of salt and don't get all butt hurt if I don't agree with them.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

There hasn't? I guess I failed to realize that Ballard has cleaned house and brought in a hell of a lot more young players through the draft with the intention of competition and development. Grigsom didn't do that, he bought players in free agency that didn't pan out. There is a night and day difference between Grigsons first two years and Ballards. Ballards first year, Andrew was on the bench. Let's see what happens this year before you throw out record differences. 

 

There is absolutely a culture set. Competitive, high energy, fast paced. Vinny's commented on it. Doyle's commented on it. You are just oblivious. 

We haven't played one game yet. Hell, we haven't even opened camp.

There is no culture made yet. We don't even know if the coaches hired are the right ones.

You are jumping the gun way too fast assuming anything with this team.

[ColtStrong2013]

16 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You don't know anything about me. If you don't like my opinions that makes no difference to me at all.

Just because I said your title to a thread was misleading because it was incomplete and then explained why, the problem lies with you.

I couldn't care less about your opinion of me.

I get along with most all the forum members because they take things said with a grain of salt and don't get all butt hurt if I don't agree with them.

Far from butt hurt. I couldn't care less. You came on my thread and spewed nonsense acting like the title didn't match with the post.

 

14 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

We haven't played one game yet. Hell, we haven't even opened camp.

There is no culture made yet. We don't even know if the coaches hired are the right ones.

You are jumping the gun way too fast assuming anything with this team.

They did open camp. Mini camp and that is where the quotes come from. Sometimes it's like you don't even follow Colts football. Have you ever worked? If you have, then you know damn well that the culture is changed immediately when a management change occurs. The culture is changed my Colts friend. I'm not assuming anything with this team yet, because there is a lot of questions marks... but one thing is for certain, the players that have been here for a year or two are taking notice. You are just a little slow to catch on.

[ColtStrong2013]

18 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

We haven't played one game yet. Hell, we haven't even opened camp.

There is no culture made yet. We don't even know if the coaches hired are the right ones.

You are jumping the gun way too fast assuming anything with this team.

Most elite forces in the military don't deploy until after at least a year of training. Many talk about the culture that you claim isn't made yet. That culture is often set the first month of initiation. Months before deployment. You don't know what you are talking about in regard to culture. The culture is what the environment is everytime these guys take the field together. They have taken the field together... and they are all talking about it. Specifically the difference compared to last year. Again, you don't know what you are talking about.

[jameszeigler834]

19 hours ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

It's waaay too early to be talking about culture change, in my opinion.  Let's at least wait until camp is halfway done before evaluations are done.  Talk is only that.  Let's see the change on the field.

Remember "Let's Build The Monster"...

Ya the monster that never got built they built something called joke and that's is all that was built hope under these two that changes in a big way.

[Fluke_33]

I misread the title as couture change and thought this thread would be about the blue pants.

[ColtStrong2013]

8 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I misread the title as couture change and thought this thread would be about the blue pants.

Might as well be. 

[ColtStrong2013]

9 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Ya the monster that never got built they built something called joke and that's is all that was built hope under these two that changes in a big way.

That's the problem. They never elaborated a whole lot on how they were going to build the monster. Hell grigson wouldn't even talk to the media. 

 

Ballard has laid out his vision time and time again, and has talked about the culture he wants to create. Competitive, young, fast. Speed and in the way they practice. The tempo in minicamp is where most players noticed the difference right off the bat. THAT is the culture that I am referring to. 

[crazycolt1]

55 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Far from butt hurt. I couldn't care less. You came on my thread and spewed nonsense acting like the title didn't match with the post.

 

They did open camp. Mini camp and that is where the quotes come from. Sometimes it's like you don't even follow Colts football. Have you ever worked? If you have, then you know damn well that the culture is changed immediately when a management change occurs. The culture is changed my Colts friend. I'm not assuming anything with this team yet, because there is a lot of questions marks... but one thing is for certain, the players that have been here for a year or two are taking notice. You are just a little slow to catch on.

Training camp. Duh.

[crazycolt1]

49 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Most elite forces in the military don't deploy until after at least a year of training. Many talk about the culture that you claim isn't made yet. That culture is often set the first month of initiation. Months before deployment. You don't know what you are talking about in regard to culture. The culture is what the environment is everytime these guys take the field together. They have taken the field together... and they are all talking about it. Specifically the difference compared to last year. Again, you don't know what you are talking about.

I have some startling news for you. The military and NFL camp has zero to do with each other. One is life or death training while the other are highly paid men that play a kids game.

While I have never been in the NFL I have been to more than my share of military training.

[MB-ColtsFan]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Far from butt hurt. I couldn't care less. You came on my thread and spewed nonsense acting like the title didn't match with the post.

 

They did open camp. Mini camp and that is where the quotes come from. Sometimes it's like you don't even follow Colts football. Have you ever worked? If you have, then you know damn well that the culture is changed immediately when a management change occurs. The culture is changed my Colts friend. I'm not assuming anything with this team yet, because there is a lot of questions marks... but one thing is for certain, the players that have been here for a year or two are taking notice. You are just a little slow to catch on.

Just to add another perspective; has any other player made a remark about "the culture change" to warrant your opinion or are you basing this on what one player said?

 

Culture usually refers to a common view of a collection of attitudes, not just one.

[ColtStrong2013]

8 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

Just to add another perspective; has any other player made a remark about "the culture change" to warrant your opinion or are you basing this on what one player said?

 

Culture usually refers to a common view of a collection of attitudes, not just one.

Viniateri talked about the up-tempo pace at mini-camp and how different it was compared to years past. He mentioned that they will be the best conditioned team in the league and won't have 4th quarter letups like they have so often the past few years because of conditioning... 

 

Doyle made similar remarks.

[ColtStrong2013]

34 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have some startling news for you. The military and NFL camp has zero to do with each other. One is life or death training while the other are highly paid men that play a kids game.

While I have never been in the NFL I have been to more than my share of military training.

Football and military are intertwined all of the time. There is a reason Navy SEALS go and speak to football programs of all ages about the fundamentals of both... Are you that obtuse? In terms of culture, they are very similar. Camaraderie, competitive, intense. 

 

In terms of elite forces (which is what I referred to), their training is much more than life or death. If you think it is that black and white, you are as crazy as your name indicates. Navy SEALS focus on execution which doesn't always mean life or death... It means taking care of the nuances of the task at hand and trusting their teammates to do their jobs. Is that not similar in football? 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Football and military are intertwined all of the time. There is a reason Navy SEALS go and speak to football programs of all ages about the fundamentals of both... Are you that obtuse? In terms of culture, they are very similar. Camaraderie, competitive, intense. 

 

In terms of elite forces (which is what I referred to), their training is much more than life or death. If you think it is that black and white, you are as crazy as your name indicates. Navy SEALS focus on execution which doesn't always mean life or death... It means taking care of the nuances of the task at hand and trusting their teammates to do their jobs. Is that not similar in football? 

 Military is real life unlike a game.

The camaraderie you speak in the NFL don't even come close as the military. Half the team don't even know what the other half does. Then you always have those players who play for themselves rather than team wise. Every team has those.

I was in elite forces so I think I know a little bit about the difference. I was a ranger for the 101st. 17th air cavalry with jumps in Viet Nam. Now tell me your experience?

Look I have been following and watching the NFL since before the merge of the league. I have seen teams start out exactly like this one has started out and fell flat on their face. Till we get wins under our belt there is no culture to speak of.

You are confusing the excitement of a new head coach and crew to a culture.

[ColtStrong2013]

31 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

 Military is real life unlike a game.

The camaraderie you speak in the NFL don't even come close as the military. Half the team don't even know what the other half does. Then you always have those players who play for themselves rather than team wise. Every team has those.

I was in elite forces so I think I know a little bit about the difference. I was a ranger for the 101st. 17th air cavalry with jumps in Viet Nam. Now tell me your experience?

Look I have been following and watching the NFL since before the merge of the league. I have seen teams start out exactly like this one has started out and fell flat on their face. Till we get wins under our belt there is no culture to speak of.

You are confusing the excitement of a new head coach and crew to a culture.

 

Who is butthurt now? 

 

I didn't degrade the military, so you can chill a little my friend. Thank you for your service. I have a close family member that is an active SEAL. I'm much aware of the differences in the two... but there are many aspects that have similarities, which is why SEALS often go to college programs and talk to athletes, specifically football teams... It's also why many of them retire into athletic training and program development after their service. It comes down to teamwork and trust. I used an analogy and you took offense to it. 

 

I'm not confusing excitement with anything. I took differences in the two organizations that have already been exposed in what little the team has already been together and shared my thoughts. You have jumped all over my every comment since the beginning of the post. 

[ColtStrong2013]

...I'll be done now. Good day

[WoolMagnet]

7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Your own words.

Am I suppose to guess at what you said?

Look, beating a dead horse serves no purpose at this point. Why you feel the need to is beyond me.

 

I guess we should just shut down the forum since we are just wasting time beating dead horses.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

 

[ColtStrong2013]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/coltswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/09/indianapolis-colts-nate-hairston-everyone-loving-new-defensive-scheme/amp/

 

"The defense is a lot easier,” Hairston told reporters Tuesday. “They keep it simple for us, but it allows you to fly around and make plays, so I think everyone is loving it so far.”

 

What? Easier than the last coaching staff made it? Players are happy? No way...

 

"The Colts showed confidence in the current cornerback room by passing on multiple opportunities to select a player at the position in the draft. While it didn’t matter to Hairston, he did see that as a vote of confidence from the front office.

'I think it shows that they have confidence that we can go out there and get it done, but that means nothing,' Hairston said. 'We still have to go out there and do it.'"

 

Management showed confidence in the guys they brought in even though the prior coaching staff didn't show the same confidence? No way... These guys could not possibly be buying into the new culture in Indianapolis.

[aaron11]

4 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/coltswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/09/indianapolis-colts-nate-hairston-everyone-loving-new-defensive-scheme/amp/

 

"The defense is a lot easier,” Hairston told reporters Tuesday. “They keep it simple for us, but it allows you to fly around and make plays, so I think everyone is loving it so far.”

 

What? Easier than the last coaching staff made it? Players are happy? No way...

 

"The Colts showed confidence in the current cornerback room by passing on multiple opportunities to select a player at the position in the draft. While it didn’t matter to Hairston, he did see that as a vote of confidence from the front office.

'I think it shows that they have confidence that we can go out there and get it done, but that means nothing,' Hairston said. 'We still have to go out there and do it.'"

 

Management showed confidence in the guys they brought in even though the prior coaching staff didn't show the same confidence? No way... These guys could not possibly be buying into the new culture in Indianapolis.

not surprised he said that. chucks scheme asked a lot of CBs while they have one of the easiest jobs in a cover 2

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

15 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

not surprised he said that. chucks scheme asked a lot of CBs while they have one of the easiest jobs in a cover 2

 

 

Chuck's scheme failed a lot of cornerbacks here the last 6 years. These guys are feeling good about their roles for a change. 

 

They are getting excited about the chance to be playmakers, which this defense and Ballard place an emphasis on. Defensive backs that can make big plays and flip a game. 

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Chuck's scheme failed a lot of cornerbacks here the last 6 years. These guys are feeling good about their roles for a change. 

 

They are getting excited about the chance to be playmakers, which this defense and Ballard place an emphasis on. Defensive backs that can make big plays and flip a game. 

i like the change, we were screwed anytime vontae was hurt and some back up had to try to cover the elite WRs in the league.

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, aaron11 said:

i like the change, we were screwed anytime vontae was hurt and some back up had to try to cover the elite WRs in the league.

Vontae was like glass... which was horrible for this team because of the scheme and lack of talented depth at corner. Forever stamped in my mind is 2014 when Vontae went out against the Steelers early in the game. 500 yards and 6 TDs later for big Ben. Ugly game. 51 points for Pittsburgh. 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

not surprised he said that. chucks scheme asked a lot of CBs while they have one of the easiest jobs in a cover 2

 

 

The safeties have the toughest jobs, IMO. I hope they are up to that task. Some of the guys like Rodgers and Brady, even if you break early enough, the best you can do is an incompletion though I'd take that over a TD. But if you cheat, there is no recovery with those guys and their accuracy.

 

Even QBs like Big Ben are used to throwing Cover 2 beaters with their eyes closed, so our secondary's task may be easier against guys like Bortles, AFC East QBs not named Brady but most QBs in the NFL know to look off safeties, IMO.

 

It would be one thing if you are playing zone with a good pass rush but if we don't blitz and our pass rush does not get to them, half the league's QBs would complete 3rd and longs. 

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

I guess we should just shut down the forum since we are just wasting time beating dead horses.

By all means if ragging on old news is what you want, then knock yourself out.

[WoolMagnet]

30 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

By all means if ragging on old news is what you want, then knock yourself out.

U crazy.......colt

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Chuck's scheme failed a lot of cornerbacks here the last 6 years. These guys are feeling good about their roles for a change. 

 

They are getting excited about the chance to be playmakers, which this defense and Ballard place an emphasis on. Defensive backs that can make big plays and flip a game. 

 

CS.....

 

I'm a big fan of yours...   and I think this might be the first time I've responded directly to one of your posts....   if so,  I'm sorry that I'm in disagreement with your viewpoint....

 

I don't think Pagano's scheme falied any of our CB's....     none of them.

 

Think about our defense for the last 6 years.     What kind of talent did Pagano have to work with?    Seriously,  not just cornerbacks,  but all positions.     Where was the talent.     Who were the good defensive players that Grigson drafted?

Who were the good defensive players that Grigson signed in free agency?     Who did Pagano and his DC's have to work with?     I never thought we had good talent on that side of the ball.     And the last two years,  16 and 17,  reflected that with defenses that were ranked roughly 31st both years.

 

Sooner or later in the NFL,  good offenses will catch up to you.  

 

Pagano had one good CB to work with -- Vonte Davis.    And for the life of me,  if I live to 100 years old,  I'll never understand Grigson's reluctance to not go out and get a quality 2nd CB.    He spent 3/13.5 on Toler...  4.5 mill per.   And Tolder was OK when he was healthy,   but he wasn't healthy very much.    And then Grigson spent 3/13.5 on Robinson and he was hurt so much that he only lasted one year.     But Vonte played well when he was healthy....   in fact all of our corners played well when they were healthy.    Pagano got the best years out of Vonte,  and Butler and Toler (when healthy) and Melvin and Desir as well.

 

Where was the pass rush to help the Corners?     Rarely had much.      

 

Pagano wasn't the problem.    Grigson was.    You can only do so much when you have so little. 

 

Just a different perspective to consider........

 

[ColtStrong2013]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

CS.....

 

I'm a big fan of yours...   and I think this might be the first time I've responded directly to one of your posts....   if so,  I'm sorry that I'm in disagreement with your viewpoint....

 

I don't think Pagano's scheme falied any of our CB's....     none of them.

 

Think about our defense for the last 6 years.     What kind of talent did Pagano have to work with?    Seriously,  not just cornerbacks,  but all positions.     Where was the talent.     Who were the good defensive players that Grigson drafted?

Who were the good defensive players that Grigson signed in free agency?     Who did Pagano and his DC's have to work with?     I never thought we had good talent on that side of the ball.     And the last two years,  16 and 17,  reflected that with defenses that were ranked roughly 31st both years.

 

Sooner or later in the NFL,  good offenses will catch up to you.  

 

Pagano had one good CB to work with -- Vonte Davis.    And for the life of me,  if I live to 100 years old,  I'll never understand Grigson's reluctance to not go out and get a quality 2nd CB.    He spent 3/13.5 on Toler...  4.5 mill per.   And Tolder was OK when he was healthy,   but he wasn't healthy very much.    And then Grigson spent 3/13.5 on Robinson and he was hurt so much that he only lasted one year.     But Vonte played well when he was healthy....   in fact all of our corners played well when they were healthy.    Pagano got the best years out of Vonte,  and Butler and Toler (when healthy) and Melvin and Desir as well.

 

Where was the pass rush to help the Corners?     Rarely had much.      

 

Pagano wasn't the problem.    Grigson was.    You can only do so much when you have so little. 

 

Just a different perspective to consider........

 

I dont disagree on the talent pool at all. Nor the pass rush. All I remember is watching corners on an island with no pass rush, and getting torched over and over... without any adjustments or changes (isnt that the definition of insanity?) 

 

I understand your perspective and give Pagano some of the benefit of the doubt... he had a bad gm who didnt give him the Ravens defense to work with. I have always said Grigson is much more to blame than Pagano for many of the problems. And the culture is definitely one of them. Talent is obviously the main one. 

[ColtStrong2013]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

CS.....

 

I'm a big fan of yours...   and I think this might be the first time I've responded directly to one of your posts....   if so,  I'm sorry that I'm in disagreement with your viewpoint....

 

I don't think Pagano's scheme falied any of our CB's....     none of them.

 

Think about our defense for the last 6 years.     What kind of talent did Pagano have to work with?    Seriously,  not just cornerbacks,  but all positions.     Where was the talent.     Who were the good defensive players that Grigson drafted?

Who were the good defensive players that Grigson signed in free agency?     Who did Pagano and his DC's have to work with?     I never thought we had good talent on that side of the ball.     And the last two years,  16 and 17,  reflected that with defenses that were ranked roughly 31st both years.

 

Sooner or later in the NFL,  good offenses will catch up to you.  

 

Pagano had one good CB to work with -- Vonte Davis.    And for the life of me,  if I live to 100 years old,  I'll never understand Grigson's reluctance to not go out and get a quality 2nd CB.    He spent 3/13.5 on Toler...  4.5 mill per.   And Tolder was OK when he was healthy,   but he wasn't healthy very much.    And then Grigson spent 3/13.5 on Robinson and he was hurt so much that he only lasted one year.     But Vonte played well when he was healthy....   in fact all of our corners played well when they were healthy.    Pagano got the best years out of Vonte,  and Butler and Toler (when healthy) and Melvin and Desir as well.

 

Where was the pass rush to help the Corners?     Rarely had much.      

 

Pagano wasn't the problem.    Grigson was.    You can only do so much when you have so little. 

 

Just a different perspective to consider........

 

I do remember reports of Grigson very frustrated with Pagano for not adjusting his scheme to better suit the players they had on the roster. He flat out refused to change his scheme. Now that is Grigsons fault to not bring guys in that fit that scheme. But Pagano could have easily said he was willing to adjust when he signed on with Grigson and been on the wrong page the entire time. 

 

Grigson drafted TJ green really high because Pagano wanted him (pounded the table) and thought he could develop him... we see where that went. 

[MikeCurtis]

Another decent thread concept somewhat derailed by personal arguments.................